A long time ago, humans walked the earth. They're all gone now, either dead or turned to ponies by the many "Conversion Bureaus." Now it's the ponies that govern the world, led by their goddesses, Princess Luna and Princess Celestia. Very few remember or give much thought to the days of humanity.
But sometimes things don't die very easily. Sometimes things linger, even if it's just a memory or a legend. Sometimes when an egregious injustice has been left unchecked, even a pony can get very angry.
On the crew of the White Rose there are many such angry ponies, led by Firebrand. These are young students who have perceived an injustice and are determined to blow everything open with one blazing truth.
Based on "The Conversion Bureau."
Chapters (5)
So either there is a conspiracy or he's just angry.
You cannot go far wrong with airships!
I'm liking this, it's revving up to be poignant and different.
You. Update this soon. It looks so awesome. As Midnightshadow said, you can't go wrong with airships!
Not a bad start at all... and thirding the airship love!
I'm loving where this is going, definitely looking forward to more chapters<3
Celestia seems very sarcastic and unapologetic here.
More later.
This is a great conspiracy story. I am looking forward to see how this all plays out. A group of rag tag rebles vs the goddess of the sun.
Oi. Why do people keep using that word wrong? Genocide is if someone were to kill off all the native americans in the world or all the Jews. Genocide is the intentional destruction of a race or religious group. Xenocide is the destruction of a species.
Been watching this one with interest; thanks for the update! I'm eager to see what happens in the future.
Also, just wanted to say that I liked a little subtlety I noticed about Celestia's staff meeting. They talked quite a bit about the crew of the White Rose and how the situation should be handled, but never at any point during the meeting did any of the assembled actually stop to consider whether Firebrand raised any legitimate points, or try to deny it. Celestia herself was the only one who even brought up what they actually said, and she quickly brushed it aside as irrelevant, which seems pretty damn callous. Sounds to me like a group who has so much invested in the status quo, they refuse to even consider anything else.
Kind of funny really. The thing I liked most about this chapter isn't what was said but what was not said. Anyway, keep up the good work!
Awesome, and yes, no sir, I do not like either the PER (sloppy and unprofessional being an understatement), and I'm already starting to not like Decree either, and Tinandel did make a good point about wither or not Firebrand was making any points, but after reading a few other TCB fics.....yeah, but at least Sweeps seems kinda cool.
That being said, I can't wait for the fourth chapter!
"“Genocide?” asked one of the advisors, a meek, pink earth pony. “What does that mean?”
“It means wiping out an entire genome,” replied one of the other advisors, a bespectacled, light amber unicorn. “Something the humans were very fond of doing to themselves, I should point out.”"
*eye twitch* Fuuuuuuuuuuuu-! Gah! Genocide is the destruction of an entire racial, religious, or political group! What Hitler did to the Jews was genocide. Destruction of an entire species is xenocide! I mentioned this last time!
Wording aside, I enjoyed this chapter though I did find Celestia disregarding what the ponies had to say about humanity to be a bit callous as Tinandel mentioned above. I'm hoping we'll get to see some of these machines brought to light that caused the expansion of magic. And I really hope somepony calls Celestia out for her destruction of humanity.
500891
Eh. Stories with multiple sentient species have used the word "genocide" in that context. Doctor Who, for example. Besides, "xenocide" isn't a word that people generally use, and it just doesn't sound quite as damning, which is what Firebrand & co. are going for.
Etymologically, I think I got the definition right in that bit of dialogue, at least. "Killing of a genome."
501120 Stories using it in that fashion don't make it the correct usage. It's not a common word, but it is the proper word. I've checked several sites for the definition before (Criminal Justice classes has some odd projects) and none even mention destruction of a genome as a definition. And xenocide doesn't sound as damning? What the hell? If someone's genocidal there's likely to be several culture left standing. If someone's xenocidal an entire species is gone. A species. As in every single member of Homo Sapien Sapien is gone. Again the most famous case of genocide, the holocaust was 6 million people dead. If xenocide were to happen to humanity now, that'd be over 7 billion. The meaning is in the definition. The literal worst case is omnicide. Not a very threatening word unless you know what it means.
"Basically, she was talking about how humans are vain and stupid and greedy and how the people there made the right choice by converting."
I read about Greece, today. It is the first of the European nations to default, to go bankrupt. People are being thrown out on the streets, old women, children, everyone is starving, most are homeless. The complete collapse of a major nation. It happened because the nation, and its people all took out massive debt in order to live a rich lifestyle far beyond their means entirely on credit - like everyone in the First World. The credit ran out, and they weren't able to elect anyone who would tell the bankers to shove it (like Iceland did.)
America is in exactly the same boat, being bankrupt as a nation roughly four times over. It stays afloat, selling debt to itself, because the rest of the world can't afford to stop accepting US money, even though it is worthless, because they all did exactly the same thing, and if the US falls, they all fall too.
All the while this real stuff is happening, most Americans, like those in Greece before they collapsed, only know what they see on television, and that is entirely silly shows about pretty, mindless celebrities filled with advertisements for expensive luxury goods that can be bought... on credit. Meanwhile, nearly a fifth of everyone in the US is jobless and/or homeless and/or hungry.
And while all of THIS is going on, the greatest single extinction of animal and plant life in the history of the world, bigger even than the Devonian, according to new forms of accounting, is going on right now, all because we scrape and rape resources while breeding like flies and taking habitat for ourselves at the cost of the survival of the planet itself.
And even all of THAT is just the tip of how messed up things are.
Fortunately, American Idol is on. I can't wait to watch it on my big-screen TV.
I bought it on credit, of course.
Oh, did I mention the one-hundred wars that currently exist at any given moment on Earth? It's not that important.
How did this start? Oh yeah. GO HUMANITY! Those darn ponies, coming in and saying we're greedy, stupid and vain. They are so, so wrong.
I am loving the story, though.
502250
You raise a valid point - not one I agree with, but a logically valid one - but the question then is this: Why isn't Celestia saying the exact same thing? Why not stand up in front of Firebrand and say, "Yes, I destroyed humanity because they deserved it and I'm not sorry?" Instead, she promptly ignores every word he says and shuts him down with brute force - first by teleporting him away, then by instructing the authorities to arrest him if he is seen again. You don't orchestrate coverups for causes you believe are righteous.
If she really believes her actions were so justified, why won't she own up to them?
Ten'll get you twenty that when Celestia came asking Dylan to reconsider taking the potion, it had nothing to do with her wanting him to be happy. What she wanted was the implicit approval of the last remaining human, someone who knew of her plans and accepted her solution anyway. If Dylan had converted, even knowing what he apparently knew, it would have been humanity saying to Celestia, "You were right, we deserve this." Instead, by refusing, Dylan sent a clear message: "No matter how much you sugarcoat it, what you did was unforgivable. And you are going to carry that weight."
The problem here isn't the ponies wiping out humanity. The problem is them utterly refusing to accept responsibility for it.
Of course, we don't know the full picture yet. Maybe Dylan was tragically misled? Maybe Celestia poisoned the human world because in some way, she had no choice? Maybe Firebrand is jumping to all sorts of wrong conclusions? We'll just have to wait and see where the author is going with this to learn more... but in the meantime, the way Celestia is handling the situation is NOT making her look any less guilty.
502250
"only know what they see on television, and that is entirely silly shows about pretty, mindless celebrities filled with advertisements for expensive luxury goods that can be bought... on credit. Meanwhile, nearly a fifth of everyone in the US is jobless and/or homeless and/or hungry."
Excuse me? This comment is so unbelievably mis-informed. I'm sorry but you canNOT be serious right now. Do you seriously immerse yourself into MLP and the brony fanbase then complain that there's nothing quality on tv and that we, as a species, never look at ourselves deeply?
I'm not sure if you are aware but based on your highly misinformed opinion I'm going to bet you're not familiar with a channel called HBO. You might have heard of it because it's actually an important channel with a lot of amazing shows that take a deep look into mankind and society for better or for worse. In Treatment, The Pacific, Band of Brothers, Too Big to Fall, The Wire, Game of Thrones, Treme, and millions of other shows that has had the balls to look at humanity in the face and present it to you in your little box.
My good madam. You cannot act so hypocritical as to enjoy an escapist show aimed at little girls, then say society sucks and everything sucks when you have never even experienced a single realist show from HBO. Because that is the equivalent of burring your head in the sand and ignoring everything else in the world just so you can live in your own little bubble. And this isn't just an HBO thing too. Sci-fi's Battlestar Galactica, Showtime's The Tudors, FOX's The Shield. Shows that isn't about escapism and throws reality for better or for worse right in your face. If you don't have the brains, patience, or will to sit through these shows on tv or atleast try to watch a drama HBO show then you do not have the warrant to go to a community about an escapist show and complain that humanity does not "create anything worthwhile".
I may be a bit too much of an HBO fanboy, but excuse my intolerance of misinformed opinions when it comes to our society's media. For every, American Idol or Jeresy Shore, there is an In Treatment or The Wire. If you are such an expert on "human corruption" i DARE you to switch a channel to HBO and stop watching ponies because this is NOT the place to discuss (or in your case, complain) about humanity's tribulations. Or to complain about escapism. Am I the only one here that finds it ironic that there's bronies complaining about our society's over indulgence into escapism WHEN THEY ARE BRONIES THEMSELVES?!
Guys, I think we're getting a little out of hand here, we are all bronies & we're all human, so let's stop this pointless argument. What Celestia did was neither good nor evil because in the end those are just words that carry little actual weight. Each side in a war will claim that the other is evil & attempt to dehumanize them (literally in this case) in an attempt to justify their actions. Humanity is a neutral force capable of both compassion & cruelty but if you try comparing that to a race of pacifistic ponies that have never known real war than we appear to be monsters. Not all of humanity is the cesspool that chatoyance claims it is & I don't need to watch HBO to know that. Furthermore, I think the reason celestia always tends to feel guilty about this is that she didn't give humanity a choice in the matter. In the TCB universe you either convert or you die from the theumatic radiation from the barrier, some people didn't convert, so she feels responsible for their deaths.
-sincerely, Chaos Smoog
502902
Thank you for that. It made my day. Well said!
I don't think anyone else got it, but I did.
Oh Celsestia, what have you done?
502119
Well, then, I guess I dun look like an idiot. I'll be sure not to do that in the future.
506097 I know the feeling. May know properly word and have an extensive grasp of the english lexicon......can't break myself of saying 'ain't'.
"And while all of THIS is going on, the greatest single extinction of animal and plant life in the history of the world, bigger even than the Devonian, according to new forms of accounting, is going on right now, all because we scrape and rape resources while breeding like flies and taking habitat for ourselves at the cost of the survival of the planet itself."
Ok, let me stop you right there. Even without human intervention, at least 1 species goes extinct per year. With humans yes, it's far higher than normal, but it is not the greatest extinction on the planet. The Permian extinction annihilated about 90% of marine species and about 70% of terrestrial species and that was completely natural. I do not know why you have such a dim view on your species, but humanity isn't all about beating puppies.
503175
"but if you try comparing that to a race of pacifistic ponies that have never known real war than we appear to be monsters."
I think this is a good reason why a lot of TCB bronies have a very bleak view on humanity. Which, I have to be very honest, personally annoys me because MLP and the brony fandom is not a good measuring tool for humanity and the show's point is escapism which is to get as far away from humanity's problems as possible.
I said this before and I'll say this now. You cannot immerse yourself in escapist media and then start making blanket statements about "how much humanity sucks" because MLP says absolutely nothing about humanity's problems. Sure, director Woody Allen had said that escapism is intrinsically tied to reality. But shows like MLP make absolutely no direct comment on the human condition and society's problems. That's why sometimes I wish bronies would just enjoy MLP on that level that is an escapist absurdest comedy instead of suddenly using it as a gold standard to how humanity should be.
If you want to get deep or philosophical about humanity, watch HBO and talk to the HBO fanbase and keep that away from MLP because you'll only develop a warped view of society and life if you take MLP so seriously as to treat it like The Analects. If you don't have any interest in tv dramas that shove reality in your face because "its too boring" or "it's too depressing" then don't drag your malcontent "humanity sucks" attitude into MLP.
You want to talk about humanity's greed and corporate corruption?
There's a miniseries called "Too Big to Fall" for that
You want to talk about war and pain and suffering?
There's both Band of Brothers and The Pacific for that
You want to talk about gang crime?
There's a show called The Wire for that
Why do you have to drag all of this into MLP and bronies? At the risk of sounding snobby, you really can't make grandiose statements about life if your only tv experience is within cartoon network and the hub. Do you need media experience to understand life and humanity? Of course not. But the way some bronies act around here makes me wonder if they might learn a thing or two from channels like HBO.
506365
Well what you say may be true, HBO doesn't have any ponies. Nuff' said.
506641
Enjoy MLP for what it is Chaos. Just don't assume you can attain the meaning to life or the answer to our society's problems just from ponies ;)
506669
Good sir, I am a nihilist. I don't believe life has (or even needs) a meaning. Life is a beautiful, wonderful thing & we need to enjoy it well we can instead of constantly trying to find some deep, philosophical purpose for our existence. If society stopped worrying much about personal status or contemplating what comes after life then maybe world peace wouldn't be so far fetched an idea. As for the answer to society's problems? I say the politicians who come from wealthy, prestigious families & never feel the repercussions of their actions should step down & let the average citizens make the decisions that influence their lives. Furthermore, ponies can INDEED solve everything & to say otherwise is blasphemy against the brony bible. Don't worry though, I'll send you a postcard on the moon.
503671
Hi, I'm Chaos... big fan.
Adds his thumbs-up
Frankly, if I was in this 'verse, I would be extremely angry with the double-dealing that lead up to these events.
To me, this story is exactly -why- I had such a problem with the original narrative, because I saw the actions taken to be gross short-cuts bordering on cheating.
510043
Ironic that you are a nihilist because:
"we need to enjoy it well we can instead of constantly trying to find some deep, philosophical purpose for our existence. If society stopped worrying much about personal status or contemplating what comes after life then maybe world peace wouldn't be so far fetched an idea."
This isn't a new idea. The idea that "life shouldn't need a purpose and we should live in the now and less about what we will become" is a very stereotypical Chinese philosophy that came out of Tao and Buddhism centuries before Christianity even became a major influence in Western society. You claim to reject all morality and religious philosophies (cause that's what a nihilist is) yet you promote a philosophy that is typical for traditional Chinese and (to a lesser degree but Zen touches upon this too) Japanese philosophies.
Furthermore, the world's pain and suffering stems from a very wide range of historical problems that is specific within a culture. Since you made the blanket statement that "there would be more peace if people just started living in the now to enjoy life", that's something the Chinese pushed in ancient history. That obviously hasn't worked for them. How do you form peace between the Chinese and the Japanese when the Chinese claim to have had war crimes committed against them and the Japanese deny it? How do you solve racism in Japan and China against the Koreans, who have been looked down upon and faced prejudice against the two for centuries (not an exaggeration).
How do you tell Israel or Palestine to give up a location that both sought out due to religious importance. Is it fair to give the ME to Israel or to Palestine? Based on what? When and at what point does historical right become negligible and who draws that line?
"let the average citizens make the decisions that influence their lives."
This happened in China. It was called the Communist revolution. This also happened in Cambodia... and the "commoner's" response was to kill anyone who had an education. Do you see the problem with blanket statements? This sounds super obvious but it must be stated. People are drastically different across cultures and across historical differences. What works for American might be disastrous for non-Americans and vise versa. I don't believe in a world of absolute truths. Which is partially why MLP is escapist because MLP IS a world of absolute truths. That's the purpose of a large portion of escapist works. To make the world simple and black and white so the audience can immerse themselves in a world with problems easy to fix.
So excuse me while I rip up the pony bible
510379
oh, I like this guy. Wait, you tore up the brony bible?! Why you little [the remaining portion of this message has been deemed too graphic to be shown on this website, we apologize for the inconvenience.].
510677
*starts peeing on the shreds*
510724
I'd punch you, but it's considered dishonorable to hit little girls.
510793
Well... I'm actually a girl in real life so... *craps on the shreds*
510801
Young miss, their is no need for such blatant vulgarity on a website dedicated to love & tolerance. I find it to be both insulting & offensive.
I'm just going to throw my two bits in on Billy's use of the word "Genocide".
The deliberate killing of a large group of people, esp. those of a particular ethnic group or nation.
By google's top-level definition of the word, Billy's not wrong, and Sithis is just being exceptionally picky. Keep on using the word the way you are, Billy.
I quite enjoy this story, and I'm glad Billy's writing it; it's a good look at an Equestria post-Conversion Bureaus.
510379
Educated people like you are exciting to come across. Your response to whomever (i only read your comment) begs the question, "what do you think of Socialism and how it interacts with the modern world?" What i mean by this is, if there were a massive push towards it, what would happen? How would people react? How would they adapt to it? I am asking for what you think on the subject. If you find yourself not caring about my questions (and i admit it may very well be selfish of me in some sense to be asking this of you) then simply say so and I will drop it, and not hold it against you.
531159
A bit of an odd place to discuss ponies and socialism (assuming all this is serious that is :P). I could write an essay on why I think the goal to seek a "world without social class" is a silly one. But I will just say this: there will always be those that have and those that have not.
It's just a natural state of being amongst a collective. Some people just have and some do not and you can work to change that but the entire world will never be an equal ground.
If you take the majority of the money from the rich and give it to the poor... you didn't solve anything. You just created a new class of rich and new class of poor. And guess what... I'm willing to bet the new rich will abuse the new poor as well...
Let's go to extreme totalitarian socialist countries shall we? Ok, let's say that a country's food industry doesn't exist and it's completely operated by the government... well who (or whom) is specifically in charge? We easily label "governments" as this big abstract collective entity but we forget that people occupy governments just as much as people occupy the lower class. Well who, within that government, controls food distribution? Whoever that is... THAT person now has the power over many as he gets to decide where the food goes and where it doesn't. Thus, once people find out who that is... they will bribe... and those who can bribe will raise themselves above those who cannot... etc... etc... etc.. and it's practically back to an uneven social order once again.
An anthropologist once said. "You don't gain something in this world, without someone losing something." It's really that simple. If you set yourself to an advantage... that means someone's at a disadvantage... that's the entire point of setting yourself to an advantage and humans. No... LIFE!! in general will always do that. How many times have I seen a hungry dog get denied a dinner just because the alpha wolf hasn't eaten yet?
This isn't a human thing... it's merely a state of being. Sure, we can work to diminish differences in social classes (which is why I'm not automatically 100% against socialist policies). But a complete and absolute removal of social class will never happen as long as there's an ambition to improve your own state of being.
Honestly... the entire push for "a more socialist society" is really just down to the lower class who want to be the upper class. The lower class wants more money, and they want to increase their advantage over others, just as much as Libertarian capitalist conservatives want the world to continue the way it is because they do not want to suddenly become disadvantaged as they are in control of the corporations and money.
Politics is less about what's best for society and more about "as long as I get what I want that's all that matters". Quite frankly, it's also down to just human psychology, which is why I believe that many of the anti-humanity TCBs authors don't really understand what it means and what it takes to continue a state of being.
Sure, ponies are a "state of being" that do not suffer from this problem. But honestly, let's think about this... who takes care of the ponies? Most of their typical needs are just assumed to have been taken care of. They always have enough money to eat, they always have enough money to buy Applejack's cider, they always live comfortable lives with things that (likely cost a lot of money) provided for them. It's almost like we're watching a kid's show.... oh wait....
It's very difficult to bring reality to a kid's escapist show, and I've yet to find an author that does it so fantastically that it makes me ponder our own existence harder... and no "I wish I was in MLP" is not pondering your own existence intelligently.
Now... for the problems on unbridled capitalism... HBO's Too Big to Fall and the oscar nominated movie, Margin Call, can present that problem much better than I ever can ;) So if you're legitimately interested in such social problems. Go and please support the artists who have done a lot with a difficult subject.
I think Celestia may be hiding something.
I wonder if Sweeps is a mole... Hopefully, they'll reveal the truth and shove everything right in the Equestrian population's face.
Keep writing!
And to everyone complaining about the state of the Earth compared to Equestria, really? Those two are not comparable Equestria's weather and geological cycles are pony controlled and the Equestrians get guidance from from two divinities and don't get me started on some of the monsters that Equestria has. Humanity got to a fairly high tech society without divine help and with wild weather and geological cycles. To me, that's like a child building a perfectly functional B-2 Spirit stealth bomber in the garage with no outside help and while still going to school. Sure some buildings were blown up and some collateral damage occured but still amazing things occurred.
560392 "Those two are not comparable Equestria's weather and geological cycles are pony controlled and the Equestrians get guidance from from two divinities"
<TCB fan mode>But see, that just PROVES the ponies are superior to humans and are therefore entitled to kill everyone!</TCB fan mode>
I'd like to propose a theme song for this fic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZul_mSFczs
The White Rose...
Wait, wasn't that the same name of a group teens in WW2 Germany who tired to fight the Nazies?
625230
That is correct. Student group that dropped a lot of leaflets in an intellectual resistance campaign.
I saw the name and that it looked cool. To my shame, in bad taste I appropriated the name and the broad strokes of the idea for my story about cartoon horses.
Ah, I so love this story. Thanks for another chapter. Every time one of these comes out, I find myself carefully examining every interaction, trying to read between the lines and see if I can't get a feel for who is hiding what - and what I love even more is that, try as I might, I can never be absolutely sure of my guesses. I have reasonable suspicions and good hypotheses to back them, but nothing concrete: I've just gotta wait for more to see if I was right or not. And I gotta say, that's good writing.
The mysterious voice in that first memory, the one announcing its disappointment with Twilight. I was racking my brain for a while trying to figure out who it was. As well as the identity of our convenient stranger in the dead city. I believe I have both answers now... but on the off chance I'm right, I'll keep my suspicions to myself. Wouldn't want to ruin it for anyone else.
Anyway, keep up the good work!
It looks like the purifiers were either a good attempt gone horribly wrong or Twilight and her friends had been lied to by Celestia. As of now, I think Celestia lied.
But hey, it looks like the airship's got a new crew member. And he doesn't seem to happy about this...
This chapter was a bit more scatterbrained than the others. I wonder, did the upload derp something?
...resources into. And it all turned out to be, well...”
“But,” said the stallion, “sometimes, when the sunlight hits just right, I think it still shines.”
It seems like there should be something between here?
Fascinating story, though the story at the beginning with Twilight seems to be a flashback told by somepony else - confusing but working, IF you explain it. You'll explain it, right? Please write more. I love this.
Wow so the Mane 6 propagated the destruction of humanity? Most unknowingly except for Twilight?
On a side note, is it just me or does TCB Celestia tend to instantly remind anyone else of Charlemagne? She's got the whole 'larger-than-life, terrible, noble emperor' thing going, just like Charlemagne. She conquers peoples for the express purpose of uniting them and gives them a choice: 'convert to ponydom or die,' just like Charlemagne and his 'Christianity or the sword' approach. She places a great deal of emphasis on her heroic, divine nature, just as Charlemagne emphasized. And lastly, she even has her righteous champions in the form of the Elements; Charlemagne was the one who literally invented the paladin order.
It always strikes me.
Seems like with the exception of Twilight, the other 5 got falsely led around by Celestia, and unfortunately, it seems like Twilight was going along with it. But as Velkaden, it might've been a good attempt gone bad as well.
Can't wait for the next chapter!
Old enough to either have read the Lord of the Rings, or have been named Bill and refused to "assimilate" his name.
705071
I have always seen Celestia as Pony Charlemagne (The name even starts with the same letter!), and I am totally impressed at your post. As I often write - a Ruler Rules. She's the extraversal Charlemagne spreading not Christianity, but ponification, and Conversion, well, the word is so very apt, isn't it? It's the same thing, and the same story, really.
Now mind you, I detest religion - all religion - and my loathing includes Christianity too, so writing stories about the pony equivalent from the point of view that it is right and correct is one hell of a stretch, but it has been pure fun. It's interesting to see folks take the other path, and fight ponification the way I would religion, if I but only could. Go White Rose, and discredit those Christians... um... I mean ponies.
Aaaah, yes. The long-awaited character rears his conveniently ill-defined head.