It could have been night. It might have been day. Ultimately, it did not matter.
There was barely enough light in the dungeon room to make out the roughest outlines of the occupants, at least for one of the siblings. The younger could see perfectly in the dark, had been able to since the moment her after had begun, and the older could light things up with a thought. But they rested their bodies against the floor, assuming postures of physical calm which were in no way reflected by either mind, and neither did anything to change the lumen level. For one was most comfortable in the dark, and the other simply did not wish to look at anything in the real world, for the images playing within the internal theater had taken so much of her attention.
They had chosen the dungeon for privacy. For a complete lack of those who would take the too-calm words and spread them into the rest of the realm, creating a panic nopony would be able to stop. And because it felt appropriate somehow, that the prisons their bodies might become were momentarily confined within an inadequate secondary one.
Sometimes the room was hot. At others, it was cold. Neither occupant noticed.
In soft tones, with the burden pressing down on each and every syllable, they wrapped up the inevitable conclusion of what had become the best-case scenario before finally beginning to make their way towards the true last resort.
"We're sure she's their daughter?" Celestia asked. The words were not weary. The words had deliberately not slept in more than a thousand years, for every moment of rest would have produced nightmare.
Luna sighed. "I have viewed both their application and the records from the hospital. I suppose there is always a chance that Rapture could have gone through a brief affair which coincided exactly with the time of the application: I am uncertain as to whether --"
Celestia shook her head. "One thing about that spell -- it doesn't work on a mare who's already pregnant. The medical caster would know something was wrong. And if they'd come in for the birthing without the paperwork, then the doctors would have had to track down the pony who performed the working without the application having been filed..."
Luna's head dipped. The stars in her mane were dim, and the borders had not shifted since they'd entered the room. Neither mane was moving at all. "Then there can be no doubt. She is of their blood."
"Yes."
Technically, the working was known as Mytilene's Truest Love, but virtually everypony simply called it The Most Special Spell. It did one thing only, and it did it perfectly. Any two mares under its effect could have their own foal -- one which would truly be of their blood.
There were some flaws, or at least technicalities. The spell only worked on mares to begin with, for the biology necessary to carry the unborn still had to be present. (Attempts to create something for stallion pairings -- a working where the resulting offspring could be brought to term by a helpful mare --- had been numerous, and all had failed.) Any pregnancy which resulted from the spell would be normal, but those pregnancies didn't always happen: unless cast by the strongest, the working lasted only a single night, one where there was the same chance of a mare at the peak of her cycle becoming gravid as there was for any other method, and it meant repeated castings were often necessary. The resulting foal would always be a filly: anypony wishing a colt in the family would generally have to adopt -- and Celestia had watched slow centuries pass as the mare population within the realm gradually increased while wondering about the true cause of the tilt.
Unscrupulous unicorns had tried charging desperate pairings thousands of bits per casting. Some of those had no ability to actually perform the working: they collected bits, created glow, and fled. Others stayed just long enough to watch the conception attempt. Celestia had rapidly become fed up with all of it and made castings free, available from the government to married couples (or rarely, on up) after filling out a simple application -- but that application had to be filed.
She had been a little worried about the spell when Mytilene had first announced it, and that concern had been centered around disease. (The opinions of those who screamed about violations of nature had mostly faded out after the first hundred years.) There were problems of the blood which occurred only on the mare side of the population. If a mare who had those issues paired with a stallion, their fillies seemed to have a lessened chance of manifesting the same disease. Mare with mare... she had been worried about two sufferers finding each other and giving their offspring a seeming guarantee of blood-borne illness. As such, there was a health screening involved prior to casting, as much as magic and science would allow. Minimizing the risks.
If Joyous' state was truly from something in the blood, then the Releases had slipped through a crack nopony had known existed.
"Some diseases of the blood can be moderated," Celestia said. "There are treatments for a few which allow their bearers to lead normal lives -- they're just treatments which have to go on for a lifetime, Luna. Cures... nothing's been found which would be permanent. But if it's in the blood... there's still hope for her. Now that we have her parents here, there's even more ponies to inspect, conduct tests on... if anything, her odds have gone up a little. I could say the same thing about -- the other option, but..."
The younger's eyes were closed now. "Yes. We will reach that. But let us conclude with this portion first. Should it be in the blood, there is a chance still... but not a strong one. We could look for others who suffer from it, but... that also comes into the next part of our discussion."
Celestia slowly nodded. "What do you think about the ways it's manifesting? They all clearly have the same thing, but... from what you said, it's affecting their minds, and Joyous is rational..."
"I am guessing," Luna quietly admitted. "We are dealing with a condition never before seen, at least in this manner, along with a mark paired with a talent which nopony had previously manifested at all. But it seems to me that if the condition forces the intensification of magic... then at least in the sense of any deliberate actions taken by the mark's possessor, Joyous' talent is passive. She does not try to exude sex appeal. She does nothing to make herself more arousing. She simply is. The magic -- for whatever magic might be happening at all, which we cannot find on ourselves -- is thus free to go on at all times, regardless of her actual activity. With her parents... weather surveying is an action. Something which must be actively pursued. In order for the increased magic to find expression, those with the condition would need to be performing those actions. And so they are twisted from within, caring less and less about anything outside the range of their talent, doing nothing else unless it keeps them alive for the next display. They eat for fuel, they sleep for rest, they travel and arrange jobs because that is a minor part of their mark, at least for now... I suspect they would be offering services for free if there was no other option and, in a year or two, might have been found in a wild zone, happily chattering to each other as they surveyed for nopony at all. And for all intents and purposes, they forget that they have a daughter, for she is no longer hindering them by existing as a single additional thing to pack..."
Neither sister had their eyes open now. Positions were beginning to mutually, silently shift. "It's like falling. Only with no way to pull them out."
"Yes."
Falling into the mark: the most common psychological condition in Equestria. Nearly every pony went through a touch of it after manifest, spending some time being just a little too fascinated by new capabilities, and some just -- got worse. True falling took place when a pony stopped letting their mark guide their lives and allowed the talent to dictate. The majority simply never became interested in much of anything outside the mark's range. But for those who fell the furthest, the appearance of that condition... could sometimes resemble a lessened version of what the elder Releases had reached. Stay alive. Perform. Repeat. But with falling, a pony could be brought back by those who loved them. Full recovery for the deepest could take years... but it could still be done. And it never went as far as the Releases had gone.
"Which means," Celestia softly went on, "it may be almost impossible to find other cases, especially those in the early stages. Unless the doctors can isolate a factor which can be identified... so much of this is just going to look like falling. Find the common element in the blood or another symptom, and we can get them all together for study... but without that..."
"This disease," Luna quietly added, "may have been within our population for centuries. Falling itself might not be a condition of the mind, but one of the blood, and the disease has simply grown stronger with each generation..."
"Luna?"
"Sister?"
"It's bad enough already."
Which got her the faintest and falsest of smiles, unseen by closed eyes -- but felt. "Yes. Let us go through the lesser of the endings first."
It was time for that part of the worst-case scenario.
Celestia nodded. "A new contagious disease. Which we would have. We don't know how it spreads, if we've given it to others... but what we do know the onset time is gradual. Years."
"Of all those who could have first contracted it..." Luna softly said. "Where have they not been? Any portion of Equestria which they have not personally traveled to, those they have been in contact with would have reached. And -- you are overlooking something."
Celestia hadn't even remotely begun to overlook the small and potentially very final irony of what Luna had said, if 'irony' was even the right word: she personally felt the better fit was 'tragedy'. "What?"
"The onset time appears to be years for pegasi. How would it affect an alicorn body?"
The silence stopped all but heartbeats and breath. Those sounds would be the problem of another.
"I should have let myself be tested," Celestia sighed. "Centuries ago, and then over and over as medicine advanced. I should have found out everything about how our bodies work. If we knew... anything at all, anything beyond what we all figured out... but I just didn't want to be poked and prodded and sampled, and now..." But there was nothing to be done about that, and so the next part of worst stepped forward to take its proper order in the line. "Luna, if it's a case of active marks versus passive ones... ours are active."
"We could simply... find ourselves on our thrones," Luna told her, and the words which described the death of minds and souls were as gentle as any such could have been. "Not caring about the realm or our citizens or each other at all. Simply waiting for the next performance of our duty. Managing the burden. We would raise, we would lower, and we would remain alive. Perhaps during a moment of distraction, we might count down the time remaining or recite orbital velocities. New rulers would be needed -- but Sun and Moon would continue. For that if nothing else, the world would be safe."
"Or we might begin to make things move faster," Celestia whispered. "A gradual increase, one which wouldn't drain us -- but faster and faster over time, Sun and Moon whipping through the sky until every day and night were but seconds long..."
There were many things not said after that. Heat. Cold. Two new kinds of Nightmare as each half of the Diarchy decided her time was superior and had to rule over all. None of that needed to be said, for every possible form of sibling-created apocalypse was in both minds, and neither wished to hurt the other more than had already been done.
"But even for that, we likely have some time," Luna said, and there was caring in the words: there could have been nothing else. "You feel no such urges, nor do I. So, while we remain rational... let us discuss the arrangements. First, should we need to purchase additional days... cockatrice?"
Celestia wasn't seeing how that was going to help. "A shell of air-permeable stone with a little room left for ribs to expand -- but death would probably still come within a week, we've never exactly tested that, and while we were alive within, the disease progresses." Cockatrices liked their meat well-aged -- 'rotting' was the more appropriate word -- and in order to keep anything else from getting at it...
"But it would keep us from doing much of anything," Luna said -- and smiled. "A vacation, as it were..."
Celestia found a smile of her own somewhere, a weak specimen which had been cowering in a corner, hoping not to be noticed. It still proved up to the task. "True, but I'm not sure we'd be moving Sun and Moon either."
"We could test that." There was actually some mischief in the statement. "Who goes first?"
"We'll flip a bit. Rhynorn's Flu?"
They were still moving. Neither was fully aware of it.
"It is a disease of unicorns," Luna pointed out. "Neither of us have ever had it, and we have both been around those suffering from it. I suspect we may be immune. Again, this could be tested. Deliberate infection... which would purchase us about two weeks per bout of illness, at most. Only one at a time: somepony still needs their field fully available. But it only affects fields... not marks."
"Still..." It could at least slow down their ability to do anything with the increased urges.
"Still," Luna nodded. "When the time comes."
And then they were at the heart of it.
"When?" Luna asked, and deferred to her sister.
"While we're still rational," Celestia said. "We'll hang on as long as possible, but we have to be capable of performing the action without hesitation. Without turning away because we're thinking about something which we've decided is far more important..."
"It was always the last resort, was it not?" Luna quietly asked. "But until recently, you had no guaranteed way to make it work. Not without a new sextet of Bearers. We did not know what would break the prison and that method might not work again, not with the bindings having been renewed."
"I thought about it," Celestia gently told her. "While you were -- away. When a war was at its worst, if I thought there was a real chance of my death. That nopony would maintain the cycle. When Cadance... her magic is still so different, I'm not sure if she can and the pain the first time she tried, I couldn't force her to keep going... Luna, the way she screamed... But she would do it, if she could. I always knew she would make it work, if her magic allowed it at all. She would force herself through it, for the sake of the world. Except that..." Cadance had been exposed. The false last resort blocked.
"But he has not."
"I'm not sure he can even become sick. Flesh and blood is a choice for him, I've always felt that. And I've still been afraid to try calling on him for Joyous, because... he would think it was funny. He wouldn't help, or he'd just make things worse. He might spread the disease everywhere for the sake of the resulting chaos. And that's if... well, if we thought the chance of her talent operating on the shadowlands was bad..." They both shuddered. "And because... even if somehow, some way, we actually managed to convince him to help... it would have been pointless. We both know..."
Luna sighed. "The gap in his powers. Yes. We exploited it once. And now it works against us: I am certain he would appreciate the irony. But he still has all of his other abilities, and he demonstrated most of them during his brief release. He remains capable."
Celestia took the deepest breath of her life. "Then we're agreed."
Luna did the same. "Yes."
They had started the talk facing each other. Now they were not. Both bodies had begun to shift across the floor during the early part of the discussion, had continued to move throughout. The sisters were now parallel, mere hoofwidths apart.
"If there's no cure -- if we have the disease and it's certain that it will lead us to the point where we'll only destroy..."
"...we gather the Bearers. We give them an excuse, any excuse at all. That we need to question him on a matter, or perhaps we feel there is a possibility of reform." That produced a short, bitter laugh.
"They release him..."
"...and we turn the world over to Discord."
Their bodies pressed against each other in the dark. Feathers meshed.
"They'll hate us," Celestia said. "We'll be history's greatest traitors. Every generation to come will curse our names, any nation which partially survives his takeover spreading the tale of ultimate betrayal. But they'll be alive to hate us. He won't destroy everything, any more than he did before. He needs his audience..."
Luna nodded. Whispering, "The insanity... and here we are, at the point of wishing it on others. As the best thing we could ever grant them for our final legacy. After all we saw others go through, their losses, their pain, and... our..."
Pressing tighter now.
"They'll live," Celestia gently reminded her. "Some will."
"The damage," Luna said, and she was not talking about anypony, anyone, or any nation.
"It'll start building again," There was no help for that. "Maybe he won't have all that long to make it worse. They were healing... you felt that the first time you took it back, how much further along it was. It took... time for him to make things as bad as they were, at the point when we got control. I don't know how much time... that part of history is so clouded... but maybe... it won't accumulate too much. And as long as he controls them, they'll still work."
"We will need to hide the Elements," Luna realized. "Seize at least one immediately after the release, place them where none will make the discovery for a while. Buy him time. And as for... the rest..."
Celestia sighed. "I think we can get him to kill us. I wish I could say I was sure. He doesn't... repeat himself too often." Those words had barely emerged. "He might also think leaving us alive to do damage was funny, at least for a while. But if we can't provoke him that far, there's always the cockatrice..."
"It would be appropriate, would it not?" Luna proposed. "Statues for his garden."
"I remember the garden."
"Yes."
"It was..."
"Yes."
"Or... Luna, do you remember --?"
And the voice which answered was not entirely that of her sibling, who had always been skilled at imitation -- and that was not the whole of it. "'-- a triple corona around your horns. One strike each, a single moment of hard, sharp contact. Simultaneous. The backlash will hit -- and that will end it. Mutually assured destruction. If you two ever need it, for any reason... remember that. If there's nothing else I can still give you in life, then let me at least grant you the gift of a death...'"
Celestia smiled. Part of it was in thanks.
"I miss her," Luna said, and there was too much in the words.
"I do too."
"Will we see her, do you think?"
"Oh, yes. In the grass of the shadowlands. The family of our blood first, I think, because they've been waiting longer. But... right behind them, the family of our hearts. And I'll see... I'll be with..."
Luna's face pressed against Celestia's neck: the elder angled her eyes into the younger's mane.
The time required for the tears to stop might have been time they didn't have. But it was still necessary.
Finally, "There is one more detail, sister. One more... hope."
"Anything you have, Luna. Anything at all."
"Your student. If all turns towards the worst, until we know it can and will not do anything else... When we summon the Bearers, when we steal the Elements... we cannot come into contact with her. At all, ever again. She must remain untouched."
Celestia sighed. "It probably would have been time to bring her in for consultation, wouldn't it? But you're right... we can't directly expose her to anypony who might have been affected. Right now, my one consolation is that there is no disease which affects ponies and dragons. I don't think Spike's a carrier, but..."
"I walked within that dream, sister: there is no need to visit it again. But that is not what I was referring to. We can reach out to her in time from afar, if we must. We cannot let her know the full extent of our final plan... she would fight it and in doing so, perhaps keep it from being fulfilled. I meant..."
Luna swallowed, and a single extra tear flowed.
"...your other plan."
Celestia blinked.
"You've been yelling at me about that for nearly two years."
"Yes." A statement.
"You have protested every single step of the road."
"Yes." Fact.
"You have called me unreasonable, cruel --"
"-- among other things. Yes."
"And now you're supporting it."
"From this point forward. Even if it is in the blood, even if we find the cure for the disease. Yes."
"...why?"
"Because... she is the last hope. The only one on that specific road, the one we understand best, if that word can be applied to 'just barely'. The pony who matched us the most closely, whose situation could be likened to ours... whom the Elements might respond to. And with that potential additional factor -- you thought there was a chance..."
Celestia sighed. "I thought a lot of things. I don't know half of them. I was guessing, Luna. We spent decades together trying to backtrack the process, work out what the Elements were thinking. It took years just to remember any real parts of the talk, or that there was a talk at all. And then..."
Her own tear now, and she felt the nature of the mane it hit change, giving it something to soak.
"...I had time -- alone... I kept thinking about it, because... there were so many reasons. I know who she is, Luna. I know who she isn't. But at the same time... it felt like the chance was there. And part of it was... before you Returned..."
"...there was one," Luna quietly finished. "For centuries, there was but one. Cadance... her change must have lifted so much of the burden from you, knowing there was at least the chance of another once again. But she may share our doom..." there was shame in the words now "...and we should not dismiss her from our plans. I have been thinking of but two, when it should have been three all along. But... there must always be at least two, Tia, whenever possible. And if there cannot be two, when we have just found proof that even three may fall... the number should never be zero. Not for long."
Celestia nodded, but only slightly, for she refused to take her face away from the soft mane.
"You'll help me?"
"If I am able. But it is her road, and I am not among those who accompany her on the journey. Let us say... I will no longer consider standing in the way. There are still no guarantees that she will finish, but... the Elements are around her. The rest may happen. And it is cruel, sister, it is pain, it is something which I never would have gone through if not for the needs of the world -- and without you beside me. If I had been alone and possessed any level of choice while knowing what was to come... I would have gone through the change and wished for another all the while, a wish where I already know the thousand-year price..."
Both weeping now, with the smaller shaking, eyes squeezed shut as if they never wished to open again.
"I believe in your plan," Luna whispered. "I believe in the need, if perhaps not everything you felt had to go into the choice. To Discord, we give the true last resort..."
"In Twilight Sparkle," Celestia whispered back, "we place the last hope."
They stayed in the dungeon for some time after that, making lesser preparations, thinking of other things to be done in what time might remain while recommitting themselves to the fight which still could render every plan unnecessary. All except one.
The last words said before they left were "I love you."
And perhaps they had been said by each sibling in turn. One or the other might have spoken them first, or a chorus could have formed.
Ultimately, that did not matter either.
Bloody hell that's heavy. Remind me why this doesn't have the Dark tag?
All that aside, this has delivered on all the amazing things I expected from it.
Damn. So Celestia and Luna are preparing if they go insane. There was a lot of talk in this chapter, but it was very good setup for bringing in Twilight and seeing the fears of the princesses.
Well that just got deep, dark, and terrifying all in a great big freakin' hurry.
Considering the only tag is "Slice of Life", and the rating is "Teen", I'll be expecting some completely batshit-crazy way to resolve this issue without the sisters' final plans coming into play. Surprise me.
4986669
I honestly thought about posting a chapter content warning for the first time ever. Caution: Really Serious Talk Ahead. And I won't argue that we've been skirting the edge of the Dark tag for a while now before going for a dip in the pool. Ultimately, I felt those who'd come this far could handle it. But...
I will say this: the chapter was one of the most draining things I've ever written.
And now I have to go work on Stupid Direction-Face.
That's not a sea change: that's jumping out of a sauna and doing a lap around the South Pole.
Whoosh -- glad to see the new chapter -- but they have reached a lower bottom than most ever come close to.
If it is a blood-borne disease, could they bleed themselves // transfuse // etc enough to keep it at bay? With an alicorn's constitution they could undergo a lot more loss than a normal pony.
Wow that was intense this whole Falling into the mark is one of the greatest pieces of world building I have ever seen I hope others use it in the future because its just so awesome.
Some things: Yay, a new chapter!
I noticed some vague mythology from the Triptych Continuum bleeding through. I also notice that not only is Twilight not an alicorn yet (not sure if she becomes one in your continuity), but Discord is still imprisoned! Huh.
Interesting how you see victims of cockatrices as still very much alive, whereas I see them as being sent into suspended animation that can last indefinately as long as the victims aren't shattered.
I've hoped and suspected for a while that this will end with a stallion (or mare) not actually being afraid of her, and just interacting with her normally, and falling in love rather than lust, and that when she finds "true love", the mark is satisfied or something. Cheesy as heck, I know, but I don't see them solving the mystery anytime soon.
Alright, I'm confused. The disease is genetic and contagious? I'm not seeing the connection between the effects of Joyous's intensified talent and the talent intensifying disease. Am I misreading?
Great chapter. You haven't burned out yet, I see... please make sure it stays that way
Eesh, wow. Glad to see you're writing again.
4986710
'In the blood' is being used as a substitute for 'genetic'. In this 'verse, ponies don't recognize, know about, or understand their version of DNA. Some of the keys humans used to figure things out have been spotted and they're familiar with the way some traits can spread -- but in other instances, their own biology is tripping them up.
Let's face it: the rules for expression of the racial traits don't help.
4986783
As said elsewhere in the Comments section, this is taking place after the freeing of the Empire, but before Discord was released into Fluttershy's custody. Early S3 -- and locally, I consider each season to take place over roughly one year.
4986796
They're planning for both possibilities: this is what we do if it's genetic, this is what we do if it's contagious.
Luna's speculating on how the condition affects different kinds of talent and in doing so, she's echoing some of what people have already said in the Comments. (I want to offer an official congratulations to those who worked that out ahead of time, Nice deductions, everyone -- I just couldn't say anything until now.) She's basically saying that Joyous doesn't actively try to be appealing: it's something which can happen without deliberate intent -- and so it does. Joyous doesn't need to take any action for her talent to trigger, and it can theoretically be active at all times. With her parents, the expression of that talent requires that they do something... so ultimately, they try to spend nearly every waking moment doing it, and care about nothing else. If they thought about something other than performing, they might not perform...
Wonderful characterization. So much emotion. I like the reveal that Luna wants to spare Twilight the pain of being an Alicorn. Deep emotion.
4986828
It's an interesting concept, but all the doom and gloom is beginning to make this feel like beating a dead horse. If the story is going to resolve in the worst possible way, it would be nice if it were quick about it.
4986852
Not really sure what pain this is that you're referring to.
P.S.
Interesting question: If Twilight Sparkle were an alicorn in this story and her talent was just magic, what would be the outcome of her having such a condition/disease as Joyous has?
4986890 Read the Continuum. The pain is clearly present in Triptych. You can find hints of it throughout the other Celestia and Luna focused stories. They are not happy with their lives in more ways than one. They see ascension as a curse.
4986737 I've seen other authors use the concept in their stories, but I don't think there's really been anyone who's given it a name, let alone putting this much thought into it.
4986911 I know and im quite surprised that it hasn't been done in this much detail before its a very good concept.
4986890 As far as I can remember, the Tryptichverse explicitly follows canon as closely as possible, and in particular is following the events of the show at least up to the end of season 3. This is quite obvious from how this entire story, but especially this chapter, has been setting up the events of from-story-perspective-future episodes, especially Discord's reform, and *most* especially, Twi's ascension. Just from this, but also from the fact that there doesn't seem to be any hint of the events surrounding Joyous in Tryptich, it's pretty safe to conclude that there's not going to be a sad or dark ending here, even if the story dips into those waters on its way to a conclusion.
4986890 In response to the postscript, the Continuum takes place across the first three seasons, then diverges after season three. Twilight is an alicorn in the later stories.
She might not change. Her talent is Magic. Her Mark is the same as the Element of Magic, unlike the other elements which changed to suit the Bearers. She might simply express magic in some way. Which she already does most of the time.
This is just my interpretation of her talent.
4986940
My point was that it appears that this condition is generally detrimental to the pony in question and indirectly to others. Also, it would really depend on if it is active or passive. Perhaps she already has this problem which leads to excessive testing of magic. So will she just start going wherever necessary to cast some new kind of magic? What if she has a sudden desire for transformation magic and goes around transforming anyone and anything she pleases into something else? Or maybe it's passive and she just starts leaking magic everywhere. In theory raw, uncontrolled magic is just pure BAD. What if it gets to the point where she just stops moving altogether and becomes the equivalent of a brain-dead source of magic?
4986958 It ultimately depends on how her talent is interpreted. Her talent could be just using magic, or it could be all aspects of magic, from research to use. The active view could be managed by constant casting, but the passive view might hardly change her. Or she could become a radiating vegetable.
I have read the entire Continuum, and Estee has never stipulated what Twilight's exact power levels are. The radiating option could be like a nuclear bomb.
This story got depressing...
Wow this is so interesting. I'd thought about how Celestia and Cadence would react to hearing Luna's news and it always seemed to be very dark. I'm really enjoying this fic and seeing how this situation will play out.
Hmm. No, I'm pretty sure this'd be genetic. If it was contagious, someone would have seen it by now.
And I know that they mentioned the Falling, and how perhaps it was a form of this disease and that it had just been getting stronger all this time and Joyous and kin are the final, inevitable result, but...
Well, you said that Falling happened to a large majority of ponies, and that (up to now, at least) even the deepest were still able to pulled back by their loved ones. Pulled back by their loved ones. That's not how a disease works. A disease--of the mind or otherwise--cannot be 'loved' away. You cannot cure your AIDS by realizing how miserable it's making your family.
That might have been in poor taste...
Anyway. I will allow that attitude and a certain degree of happiness has been proven to leave patients healthier, and that ponies have magic that gets a boost from their emotional state, but even then, if that is the tipping point in Falling, it's a disease; symptoms are not going to dissipate all at once.
This is not a complaint at the character's reasoning ability. I saw and accept your assertion that ponies don't have the same knowledge of biology that we do. This is simply me trying to reason through my opinions and speculation.
And of course this automatically assumes that a disproportionately large number of mares are homosexual.
4987432
Not really. If, say, two percent of all marriages are mare-mare and each produces an average number of foals, you're still going to get a very slow crawl trend up the line. Essentially, for the eternal coin flip, you've found a way to say 'And we can absolutely guarantee this many are going to come up heads.' The coin has been slightly rigged: over time, the statistical trend will be visibly skewed. But there also should be a leveling-out point visible. It just takes some time to reach it and see what the new breakdown is, especially when the coin is being flipped on a generational basis.
ETA: I think it's safe to say Celestia realizes what's going on with the gender shift in the population by now. Also that there's not much which can be done about it.
And here we go screaming down the path of grimdark with the Sisters suddenly hoping Discord will kill them and angsting over life.
Seriously, why do so many fics do this?
Mood and tone should not abruptly change so far into the story. And for the Sisters to only NOW start talking about these plans they've supposedly been going on about for years...
It just feels like the whole first part of the story deliberately left out every relevant detail until SUDDEN PLOT TWIST!!
There's a reason Shyamalan doesn't get away with this anymore...
No more of this for me.
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I'd go for genetic or genetic/magical in some way, however, there could be a contagious disease that predisposes a pony to the psychological condition of falling, body and mind are linked after all. Depression can be a symptom in some diseases and that depression can be treated separately from the underlying condition.
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I'll clear this up, at least: during the abeyance, Celestia had previously had the thought that if all else failed, she had a potential last resort to keep the cycle going. She didn't necessarily have a way of getting at it until the Elements had new Bearers. A thought at the back of her mind which would come forward during a crisis. They're planning for the true worst-case scenario and suddenly, because of that recent development, the last resort is actually available.
They are talking about what they have to do if things go all the way wrong. It's not pretty, it's not going to be dressed up in lace, and it has been part of the story since the idea was first conceived. If you feel things shifted too fast and hard -- so it goes. To me, the mood was sliding downhill for a while. I won't argue that this isn't the nadir. But -- mileage varies.
We're at the lowest part of the pit. And you don't get to start climbing back out before you hit bottom.
ETA: Well, the good news for me is that in the pursuit of finishing the next chapter on Stupid Direction-Face before I go to sleep tonight, it is now absolutely mandatory that I rewatch Dragonshy.
Yay?
4987500 Point is, there was nary of hint of this in earlier chapters, yet Celly and Loony knew about it the whole time...
As others have already said, all of this suddenly comes out of nowhere.
It's very jarring when something crucial to the plot which one or more major characters has known of from the getgo don't so much as even have an internally narrated foreshadowing thought before an infodump plot twist.
I would have expected Celestia and Luna to at least do a little, "Could she be....?" "Perhaps... we must be ready for the consequences!"
Really, anything to at hint that something ominous and potentially deadly was afoot beyond someone having a very unfortunate Cutie Mark would have helped. It'd be one thing if the Princesses just found out it's a disease and are trying to keep word of it quiet while they seek a cure. That, at least would be understandable.
But in this case, they KNEW all along! And yet they never so much as think about it for a passing moment until this chapter. It really feels like a sudden plot device was thrown in for an afterthought.
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Celestia was seen thinking about the possibility of everything being caused by a disease for some time, and there was a mention of cutie pox during the garden talk. She also had something of a nightmare on the subject. (ETA: not the entire generating portion, but a contributing factor: 'If this happened to me...') If you look back over the prior chapters, you'll see bits here and there, including bringing in medical consultants.
But one pony... can be a unique aberration. Something strange happened to her. There's something wrong with her magic. But nopony's ever seen this before, nopony's gone through it... and so there isn't as much to worry about. No immediate evidence that the problem is potentially on that level. It's on their minds -- but it's not the foremost possibility. They're not slamming her into quarantine: a lot of hospitals won't do that with a strange set of symptoms, and the sisters don't either. (Also, to be fair, as Luna points out in this chapter, it was far too late.) They're thinking about it -- but in the end, while Joyous is a pony they're trying so hard to save, she's one pony.
And now there are three.
This makes some possibilities stronger. Two are that it's a genetic condition -- or a disease which was passed on. Seeing her parents and realizing what's happened to them brought it all home.
So now the sisters are thinking about it. The subconscious fears have made it all the way to the front. And this chapter is about dealing with those thoughts. It wasn't easy to write and for many, it may not have been easy to read. (Insert your own joke here.) In your case, it drove you off the story. Again... so it goes.
But at the same time.. the choice of chapter title is not a random one. In certain categories of sexual interaction, a safeword is the trigger to stop. It's the signal which must not be ignored, the one which says things are starting to go too far and the other party must back off immediately. It has to be honored, or one of many things which could break is the relationship. Trust will go first.
I named this chapter 'Safeword' for a reason.
We'll see if I retain any trust at all.
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Draining it may have been, but damn if it wasn't effective. I have to say, this recent spree of updates from you has been pretty awesome.
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I think they related it more to psychological and physical addiction like alcoholism or gambling, something that has taken undue amounts of control in one's life and is causing noticeable and continuous damage to one's self in a physical, mental, emotional, or social way...plus it is labeled a psychological condition in story. Psychological conditions can be considered diseases too you know. "Falling" might be considered a disease, but it doesn't necessarily mean having a purely biological cause that one has no control over such as being infected with AIDs. Though there are people that are biologically affected in those sort of ways.
Stand back while I rampantly speculate with no idea what the authors truly intent. Excuse me for the TLDR.
They might consider it more on peer with mental illnesses like depression or obsessive behavior if they have any thoughts on psychology. Though it would depend on a verity of factors. Given that Ponies don't seem to have the medical technology to know about DNA, I would assume they would not know about most brain chemicals and hormones.
I wouldn't say family would be able to help with say major depression caused by low serotonin levels that humans would solve with SSRIs. Serotonin-specific reuptake inhibitors basically make it so the brain doesn't reabsorb unused serotonin, so more of it is used. Normally you'd get a allotment, use some, and then the rest go back. But with social-psychological problems with little biological elements would be up for grabs.
The difference between a Pony "Falling" due to having something like a brain tumor versus "Falling" due to the fact it gives one a sense of fulfillment and control that they otherwise like. I would think there would be some analogues to those video game addicts who are seen to have relatively normal lives, but still fall in due to the fact they receive both emotional fulfillment and meaning they otherwise like in everyday life. Skinner Box tactics, Operant Conditioning. Basically you are conditioned to do something, alter your behavior, due to consequences of preforming a action. It's the reason gamblers and video game addicts are addicts, they learn that if they do that, they will experience pleasure. Now, you'd think Gambling would be not a example, because you loose a lot before you win, but Operant Conditioning works better if you are not rewarded after every action. Rather if you are rewarded on a random schedule or a schedule that provides lulls between rewards. They also work best with secondary reinforcers, things outside the biological need to live(because you can be satiated due to biological limits).
A Pony, who "Falls" due to Operant Conditioning would in my thinking, fall due to simple addiction and mental trap. They do their special talent, sometimes no reward is had, but then reward. Do more, get more reward, ignore times when no reward is given, think more on reward. Etc.
With a Pony, I would assume that the fact their special talent makes them special is a easy way to fall into that sort of mental rut. Easier then say, a human falling into gambling addiction. Because there is a Skinner Box already built into the Pony, his or her talent.
There is also emotional and introspective issues with the talent, in that a Pony who never was "special" before becomes "special" via that talent, they have cause to greatly invest in that talent or use it as a social crutch. Like, if I am not special in my special talent, no one will like me. Some of the funniest people in the world were like that, they hid behind comedy because a lot of the time they would think that the world would not like the "real" them.
Though given the context and wording, it is more likely it has more to do with Skinner Box stuff and those sort of things. Moderate cases sound like a range between minor obsession compulsion to having anxiety from leaving the comfort zone of the talent. While the worse cases seem to very between major addiction and obsession, though without knowing the circumstances and context of falling, why they fall may totally be unique in case by case basis.
Some falling due to biological conditions and others due to mental ones. Perhaps even social environmental conditions. Basically brain tumor versus let's say major OCD anxiety(if I don't do this exactly this way this many times, I will feel extreme anxiety and obsess over it) versus let's say traumatic experiences.
Like, let's assume Jelly Pony is a "Fallen", assuming Falling extremely leaves a pony unable to have self-care standards that allow for running a job. Jelly Pony might very well be fallen in the moderate to extreme range depending on how that musical scene gets translated into this version...or he may simply be a exhibitionist fetishist of some sort, which may mean that he does have stuff outside of being Jelly pony. So okay, might not work there.
Hmm, I am rambling. Probably should stop.
4987616 Well, there's also the rather bizarre connotation that their solution with Discord automatically defaults to "Hopefully he'll kill us!" rather than, "Maybe his chaos powers can negate this."
And there's also the little flaw in their reasoning that Discord would even want it to stop and not make things even worse, because chaos.
He's still a villain and their enemy. Why would they ever think releasing him was a good idea? By the way, that's still a gigantic problem with the plot of "Keep Calm and Flutter On", since Celestia basically said, "Let's release our most powerful and dangerous enemy who shows no sign whatsoever that we can trust him because I miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight need his powers for something... at some undisclosed point for no particular reason in da future. trololo!"
The entire idea of releasing him at all drags me painfully back to that gaping plot hole and only helps to further illustrate how horrendously bad an idea it was.
Really, in this particular universe, freeing Discord to 'help' would be the furthest thing from their minds.
It's a non-option.
4987661 Hugh Jelly is just a garden-variety pervert like Quagmire.
Giggity!
th05.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2013/277/d/8/giggity_horns_by_redapropos-d6p2kqc.png
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Taking part of this to private message, as it concerns Plot.
But there's some I can put here.
They are talking about the possibility of his making things worse.
But there's also this bit.
That's a worldbuilding bit, put there because it says something about a part of this 'verse. There is something Discord can't do, and the sisters have used it against him. It has some bearing on what's happening right now. I have faith that you can put it together from there.
In 'verse, there's a reason for the long-term goal. It isn't written down in any story, only in my notes. But this isn't that. This is a desperation move, the last move they can make. The move that doesn't save the world so much as keep it going in some fashion until somepony else manages the trick.
And now the PM portion, which may wind up going here eventually.
Wow... This just got dark...
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The reason it IS an option is because, if they fall too far, they could destroy equestria battling over sun and moon, and if they die, sun and moon stop moving. Eternal day or night or both at once. With discord in charge, it's still POSSIBLE for ponies to survive, though it's harder, since he can move sun and moon, and it prevents other nations from invading/whatever now that the guardians are gone, since he'll likely be hitting them with the chaos storm, too.
4987869 Yeah... like I said, they assume Discord wouldn't make things worse and instantly blast them to kingdom come the instant their backs are turned... which is the same problem I had with "Keep Calm and Flutter On".
What's to stop Discord from simply saying, "Ok! This time nopony's putting me back in stone!" And he decides, after using Joyous Release's convenient power to get them fighting each other and thus incapable of weilding the Elements harmoniously, to kill the Bearers and bury the Elements in the planet's core just to be on the safe side?
We need some VERY good in-story reasons as to why they feel they can depend on the Spirit of Chaos and Disharmony to do what they need him to do. Frankly, I cannot think of a single one with the information we have.
Why not? Darker Equestria, equally darker Discord!
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Then why is he doing his things in areas were foals might see?! They need adult supervision!
In any case, so, any comments on the low level psychological speculation?
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Problem is, whatever Discord 'can't' do... is there a sensible reason he can't do it?
It simply can't be because he can't kill. If anything, that's his personal preference rather than a rule. And if it ever IS a rule, who made that rule? Then we get into there being a god/gods actively monitoring things which then begs the question of why no one's asking them for help or has brought them up before. So that's out.
I'm trying to come up with a restriction on Discord that makes sense in context and plausibility... and I got nothing other than perhaps he can't make things orderly... because doing so would sever him from his chaos power or something?
I think you're all missing an important thing about Discord. He gets bored very easily. He's not going to toss the elements into a deep dark pit somewhere, he needs the other side to have a way to win. Otherwise they won't play the game. And where's the fun in that?
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I'm confused as well. The idea of female-on-female giving rise to a genetic faults, or exacerbating a minor one is really clever, has some basis in reality, and has evidence within the story, so I was totally on board. But then it quickly goes to them spending a far larger portion of the chap treating it like an infection, without explanation how that could even work. Would it be like spreading germs, but with thoughts? Telepathy? I know, I know, it's magical in nature, who cares, but you've been utterly fantastic at describing the nuance of fantasy physics and psychology! It's doubly confusing since the sisters even point out how they have little evidence towards it being a contagion, and that with so many unknowns there's a vast number of scenarios that could be playing out. The contingencies they're discussing don't even well thought out, since they aren't considering the not-so insignificant number of people that Joyous has interacted with.
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If there is a serious genetic defect then I would agree that, generally, external influences would probably have little to no effect. I think the point is that the "Falling' is something psychological and potentially self induced, at least in part, and therefore is curable at some level. And in any case, I'd say it's less about "realizing how miserable it's making your family" than it is realizing that you have value/worth in others' eyes that you don't have to earn somehow. As you say HIV/AIDS is different, but AIDS isn't really what kills you.
They did point out that Joyous' parents had gotten around quite a bit. Frankly I'd say that it could be inherent in ponies, affected by having a cutie mark (i.e. you know what you're good at), and aggravated by cultural growth. There is something they are "best at", the increase in population makes it hard to be better than anyone else at anything but that, so they focus more on their talent and eventually it becomes the thing that defines them to the point where everything else loses significance. In a bid to retain their sanity/identity, they do that thing more and more...
Honestly, there does seem a tad bit of a disconnect between Joyous' problem and her parents' issue.
Celestia shoot her head.
That is a very strange mental image.
This is brilliant. You've taken one of the standard erotic-fantasy powers -- sexual irresistibility -- and shown just how deeply, truly horrible it would be, especially if one couldn't turn it off.
Your characterization of Celestia, Luna and Cadance is also really excellent.
I hope you finish this tale!
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I think, and this is mostly just me figuring things: As an agent of change, Discord cannot Truly create. The only example of his creation we have seen in the show was the spontaneous appearance of Screwball - and even that might be transformation.
Wow. There's a lot here. One could probably go through it with a fine-tooth comb and produce quite a bit on the princesses' before, and the foreshadowing is so thick, it's practically fiveshadowing.
I still don't think it's a disease, not in the sense of a communicable disorder. It could be falling writ large, but Joyous's behavior doesn't match. A genetic disorder is certainly possible, but part of me wonders if the mare who gave birth had needed help...
I suspect Celestia and Luna are going about this the wrong way... but I'm honestly not sure how much of that is just me hoping that's the case and ignoring evidence to the contrary.
In any case, looking forward to more.
At first, the title is kind of off-putting from the rather suggestive words.
Then upon reading, it becomes readily more obvious how mistaken that impression is. I'll avoid spoilers and be vague on this story that is a MAJOR case of wrongly judging a book by it's cover. I'm impressed by just how drastic it really is, as well as the depth this story gets into. I would even suggest adding a disclaimer to the synopsis that it isn't at all a flop clop sort of story, but one of interesting tension and dynamics. And it only continues to get more interesting as the story goes on.
I am fascinated by this story. Well done.
And so, the Two Sisters learn the true horrors of what enough genetic inbreeding can produce.