The Lunaverse 2,565 members · 202 stories
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RainbowDoubleDash
Group Admin

The final season [of Friendship is Magic] brought that storytelling to a satisfying conclusion

...no it didn't! If I was trying to write a worse finale I don't think I could have done so!

The movie’s main character, for example, is an activist working to make the pony world a better place.

Oh no

7424866
Heh... let me guess: Don't like Twiggles being Ruler of an entire nation, something that she didn't want at all in her life? :ajsmug:

I hope they don't let diversity trump characterization.

How do you depict diversity in a multi-colored pony universe where no two ponies have the exact same color scheme anyway?

thatguyvex
Group Contributor

7424866
That really is the thing, isn't it? Not simply that the final season was bad, but that it felt almost formulated to be as plausibly bad as possible, as if it was conceived of and written by someone who had no love for the series or the characters therein, and was just doing the bare minimum of shallow, lazy "storytelling" to get it all over with.

I don't want my distain for the way FiM's show-canon ended to interfere with my opinion on G5, though, so I'll try to approach this new show with an open mind.

7424939
And let me guess: You don't like how Twiggles became the new Ruler of Equestria at the end, right? :P

7424866
Preaching to the choir my friend.

7424879
This can not be good.

7424919
Preaching to the choir my friend.

7424939
Couldn't said better myself.

RainbowDoubleDash
Group Admin

7424881
Eh, I mean, I admit I'm not a huge fan of that and think it was clumsily inserted, yes, but I'm not fundamentally opposed to it. Properly handled and written it could have been quite good. It was not, but there's no deep-seated flaw in the idea.

I'm more referring to how the finale, "The Ending of the End"< is a complete betrayal of everything the series stood for. The show about friendship ends with nopony trying to make friends. The show about kindness and generosity ends with the ponies having completely run out of it. In the end, the clearest moral lessons presented are threefold: "Friendship is power" (i.e., Cozy Glow was right), "if you don't hit your enemies while they're down, they might get back up again", and "you never have to take responsibility or suffer consequences as long as you're sorry".

7424939

and was just doing the bare minimum of shallow, lazy "storytelling" to get it all over with.

See the odd thing is that I would think the bare minimum shallow, lazy storytelling would have been to clumsily redeem the Trio and have them repent their ways apropos nothing (or at least very little), which, while it would have been a let-down in storytelling, at least wouldn't have gone against the fundamental thesis of the show.

We found ourselves with this whole decade of storytelling and really rich lore, and it felt wrong to walk away from all of that.”

Well that's good news at least, although I am scratching my head over some of the other points in this article.


My main concern from some of the leaks is that they will simply do palette swaps on Twilight and her friends instead of focusing on the new generation of ponies. I'm okay when I see art or stories where the creators are like "what if Twilight was an earth pony?" But that's different than saying "oh yeah, because she was so popular in G4, we're just going to reuse her, but she's now a pink giraffe because why not." If anything, have the same Twilight make a minor cameo, but have a new mane cast with new personalities for us to fall in love with. Or perhaps go a step further and have Twilight be like the G5 equivalent of Princess Platinum, a historical/legendary figure who doesn't show up in the show per se, but could act as a guide for our new friends. "Holy Sparkle, Batpony!"

7424952
I have always thought that they missed a great plot twist with the whole Discord was Groggar thing. Instead of Discord offering the four bad guys up to Twilight as confidence boosters, it should have been him trying to convince them of the value of friendship. Even if it was to gang up and take him out.

He could have concocted an evil plan that would have ended all pony life, a step too far for the trio to swallow.

You could have ended with them being self-sacrificing in trying to save each other and prevent Groggar's plan from coming about, in a Tsunder sort of way. And the fact that they had shown they did have the capacity for friendship saving them from being sealed away or imprisoned.

thatguyvex
Group Contributor

7424942
Kinda what RDD said. It's not a fundamentally bad concept, but it's execution was lazy and didn't feel particularly true to Twilight's character. By the end of it she just seems like a copy of Celestia, rather than her own unique self.

7424952
Yeah, there's a difference between not doing the redemption well, as opposed to ignoring all previous seasons of storytelling that time and again made a point of showing even sociopathic chaos deities like Discord getting a second chance. I can't even get over the fact that Starlight Glimmer, the madmare who nearly destroyed the timeline and all reality due to having a petty revenge grudge against Twilight and her friends, and who then spent the entire season seven finale literally teaching the moral that everypony should be given another chance via Stygian, doesn't even try to reach out to any of the Trio. Not even a single word to Twilight or any of the others of "Hey, I know they're villains trying to take over Equestria, but at one point so was I. So was Discord for that matter. Shouldn't we see if we can get through to them?"

Yeah... I could go on way too long about how badly thought through season nine's "story" was. Sure it had plenty of episodes that had nothing to do with that, but most of those episodes were kinda "meh" fillers that felt like they could've been put in any season. Why waste episode slots in your final season on episodes that don't really contribute much to character development? The whole damn thing just felt so lazy, lacking in any creative spirit or love of the show.

Even over a year later, it still hurts to think about. :ajsleepy:

Need to focus on more positive things, and hope G5 and the Season 10 comics can do a better job. Oh, and there's always good fanfiction to read, like those concerning a certain reformed Changeling Queen and a certain centaur and pegasus filly with a budding parent/child dynamic. :raritywink:

7424972
Alrighty :3 Besides.... I still love the life Twilight had for herself in Seasons 1-8, aka the life she built for her. ^^

Anything that uses diversity as a selling point is NEVER good.

It means that the product is unable to stand up by itself.

RainbowDoubleDash
Group Admin

7424991

Anything that uses diversity as a selling point is NEVER good.

Not a fan of Star Trek, I take it? Because diversity has been a selling point for it since its inception. Hence having a black woman - Hell, a woman at all - on the bridge as a ranking officer, a Japanese man (also a ranking officer) at the conn only 25 years after the end of World War II, a Russian while the Cold War was still going on, and an alien who looked like the Devil (the pointed ears).

I agree that "diversity" can't be your only selling point, but making it a major selling point is hardly new and hardly bad in and of itself.

7425069
Tbh, I only really liked Enterprise and the new films.
And while I agree that diversity isn't a bad thing, I've found that anything that literally goes 'come and watch this - we're diverse!' is rarely good.

I don't know whether to be pleased or annoyed with it just being an expanded universe version of Gen 4. A benefit of writing fanfics after a series has ended is that you don't have to worry about contradicting future canon. Gen 5 expanding on Gen 4 kinda feels like it takes that away. Granted, it can depend on how far into the future it takes place. Either way, I just hope it doesn't tread on anything that has already been established in Gen 4.

There's also the fact that I've come to terms with Gen 4 being done. I have anticipated a completely new world for Gen 5. Easter eggs and references are one thing. But continuing from Gen 4 is just a giant middle finger to anyone who wants the torch to be passed. It's making it so that it's not a proper Gen 5, but just a spin-off of Gen 4. I'm not even opposed to Gen 5 continuing from Gen 4, since my idea for a Gen 5 would've been to follow the CMCs grown-up, kind of as a reference to Lauren Faust's idea of having a spin-off kid show following the misadventures of the CMCs trying to earn their cutie marks. Or have it follow the adventures of the Young 6. Or even Luster Dawn and her friends.

I'm also probably sounding more disgruntled than I actually am. Perhaps it will be different enough, kinda like how Torchwood is a spin-off of Doctor Who, despite feeling nothing like Doctor Who. And if it takes place in the future with a whole different group, then it is by definition a new generation. My rant is just coming from the fact mindset of "I had my acceptance that the story has ended, so let me keep it."

That's not to say that's what I'm expecting though. Simply put, I'm keeping an open mind. As long as Gen 5 doesn't require knowledge of Gen 4, I'll be fine with that.

And maybe if we're lucky, we'll have a descendant of Trixie as the main character. :trixieshiftright:


7424919
7424991
Earth ponies, unicorns, pegasi, alicorns, zebras, griffons, hippogriffs, changelings, dragons, yaks, bat ponies, kirin, deer, crystal ponies, centaurs, draconequuses, shadow ponies... How do you depict diversity in a series that's more diverse than the human race?


7425069
Star Trek is diverse, there's no denying that. But diversity wasn't its selling point. Not in my opinion anyway. Its diversity was just showing how progressive it was at the time

Also, I'd argue that Vulcans look more like alien elves than demons.

7425141
What I'm afraid of on the diversity front is that they will create bias and bigotry between races or types, and then have their protagonists overcome it.

RainbowDoubleDash
Group Admin

7425141

But diversity wasn't its selling point. Not in my opinion anyway.

Okay, well, it was for Gene Roddenberry, the guy who made it and shopped it around to various studios. In fact it was supposed to be more diverse - the crew was supposed to be 50% female and the second-in-command was supposed to be a woman (which would have been huge for the time) - but Roddenberry was told to scale it back.

Also, I'd argue that Vulcans look more like alien elves than demons.

That’s because you’re coming at Star Trek with more than fifty years of pop culture surrounding it, including fifty years of Spock’s and Vulcans’ existence making people associate pointy ears with them more than Satan. The success of The Lord of the Rings and D&D and so on helps as well, but Lord of the Rings was niche in 1967 and D&D wouldn’t exist for eight more years.

At the time, Spock was nearly canned by the studio because it was worried that he looked like Satan. In the end Roddenberry was told that he could either keep Spock the alien with pointed ears, or he could keep Number One the female second-in-command. He kept Spock.

Emeral Bookwise
Group Admin

7424939

Not simply that the final season was bad, but that it felt almost formulated to be as plausibly bad as possible,

Did we even watch the same final season?

I would fairly concede that it might have been disappointing or at least underwhelming, but literally the worst ever let alone intentionally so seems like a gross exaggeration. The writing might have been sloppy and ill-considered at times, but I wouldn't call it lazy and I certainly wouldn't consider it to be lacking in "love" for the series.

The season, especially in it's major episodes, was full of reference and winking nods to past events and characters... not to mention their was an entire episode where the writers basically just asked the actors for the ManeSix plus Spike what their own dream episodes for their character would have been and than wove all those concepts together into Sparkle's Seven to celebrate the 200th episode. The execution might have been clumsy at times and I certainly didn't agree with many of the decisions made, but never once did it feel to me like it was for lack of effort.

7424952

The show about friendship ends with nopony trying to make friends. The show about kindness and generosity ends with the ponies having completely run out of it.

I mean, you aren't "wrong", but I'd hardly blame season 9 for that, especially not in regards to Cozy Glow in particular since the lack of second chances for her character was introduced at the end of season 8... although admittedly season 9 still failed to do anything to fix that.

As for Chrysalis, I feel enough ground work was laid in episodes previous season 9 to characterize her as having already been offered a chance at and redemption and her having both rejected it and doubled down on her evil. While as for Tirek, he was arguably introduced as pony "Satan" what with literally escaping from a prison in "hell", and was demonstrated sorta demonstrated to be "eviler than evil" what with whole recruiting and subsequently betraying Discord to more or less portray himself as the bigger bad.

All that said though, while the final message of the finale might have been "off brand", I think it came from a genuine attempt to shake things up. After all the franchise had been catching some heavy criticism for the whole redeem every villain trope, especially after Starlight (although I personally still consider Discord the worst offender)... heck, prior to Rainbow Rocks fans weren't too thrilled with letting Sunset off the hook either. Then again, while I can't fault the writers for trying something different with a trio of irredeemables in the end, I must concede the lack of any of the heroes even trying to reach out to any of them is still a pretty glaring flaw.

7425266
It really says something about how misogynistic people were back then when they basically chose Satan over a woman in a position of power.

...Oh, hi, Vice President Kamala Harris.


7425246
I really hope they don't do that. Because if it's the same Equestria, that story already exists and was dealt with. It's also how Hearth's Warming came to be.

thatguyvex
Group Contributor

7425303
Given human perception is heavily colored by personal experience and emotion it's entirely possible we didn't watch the same season, Emeral. At best, season nine had episodes that produced a neutral reaction from me, where I felt they did little to contribute to the characters or the world in any engaging manner, with maybe one exception involving Yona and Sandbar that I thought was kind of cute. Other than that, the episodes largely didn't elicit any positive reaction out of me, and that was when they weren't actively damaging my overall feelings towards the show as a whole.

Understand that really don't want to get into an extensive discussion about this, but for me, the choices made in season nine's central story were among the laziest, shallow, and creatively disingenuous choices that could have been made, and the season has left an active wound in me where my love for the show use to be; a wound that's had well over a year now to fester. I've been struggling to find some kind of joy in the show still, but my mood on it has soured to a degree that I haven't even been able to watch an episode of it since the finale. I can manage to still write and read fanfiction only by virtue of fanfiction being fundamentally different enough from the show that it doesn't remind me of it as clearly, and I've spent just too much time invested into the fanfiction end of things to quit it. But that finale was so hollow and empty that it's essentially tainted my view of everything that came before it, something I'm still trying to fight mentally and emotionally so that one day I might at least bring myself to still enjoy the first seven seasons before Big Jim got his hands on things and essentially destroyed something I loved with the fundamental misconception concerning the underlying point of the series.

From other people's point of view are my feelings an unjustified exaggeration? Perhaps. But they're not me. They don't have to feel what I'm feeling. I'm the one who has to deal with it, and after stewing in pained silence for over a year, I'm well at the point of wanting to explode. Do note that none of this rancor is directed at you, Emeral. I'm just exceedingly tired of having to wrestle with these feelings and having next to no place to release them without sparking an argument I'm in no mood to repeat the steps of for the umpteenth time. I hate season nine. I feel completely justified and valid in my hate of season nine. I'm not going to be argued from that position short of anything "Act of God" level. My only solace are fanfiction and the faint thread of hope that the season ten comics might fix part of the problem. That's really all there is to this.

I do apologize, though, as I am not seeking argument. I am just very, very tired, both inside and out, and would like to be able to love MLP again, someday.

Emeral Bookwise
Group Admin

7425322

I'm the one who has to deal with it, and after stewing in pained silence for over a year, I'm well at the point of wanting to explode.

I get that, form personal experience I truly and deeply do. No one should ever have to suffer alone in silence, and it genuinely pains me to realize this has been such big hang-up for you.

I'd like to think you and me could be friends. I get why you wouldn't want to argue about it, especially not here on a public venue, but well... you know how to reach me over on Steam, if you ever need to blow some off. Maybe it's too late to try and offer you my ear, but it's a standing offer all the same.

thatguyvex
Group Contributor

7425334
Emeral, we are friends. Just because I haven't been chatty around here for awhile doesn't mean I've forgotten that the Lunaverse is my first major community here on FimFiction and that you guys are my friends. And yeah, I've been stewing over season nine for awhile. Not sure how much it'd help to lament what can't be changed, although I don't really have an issue letting off some venting either. I just really wasn't eager to get into a back and forth over it, either. Believe you me, man, I've seen and heard plenty of argument on both ends of it since last... hell was it November? As for Steam, I keep forgetting that my chat doesn't automatically log on there. Haven't been using it that much since all my main games lately have been on my PS4, but there's a couple coming out in February I'd be getting on Steam. I'm never against chatting, Emeral, just not a lot of energy for debate these days either.

RainbowDoubleDash
Group Admin

7425334 7425343
Friendship!

Most of my opinions mirror Vex’s. With two major exceptions: I have not been keeping quiet about it, I’ve been extremely vocal; and while most of Season 9 was “meh” to me, the episode “Frenemies” managed to become my favorite in the entire series after it aired. Certainly in the top 5 anyway. Ironically though I think “Frenemies” did the exact opposite of what it was intended to do - I get the feeling it was supposed to show the Trio as fundamentally irredeemable, when instead in my view it illustrated clearly that they could be redeemed if only someone was actually in their corner trying to help them.

But like Vex, as well, I’m not really in the mood to rehash old arguments, especially not with my friends when I know how heated and, frankly, mean I can get sometimes when I’m convinced I’m right.

Emeral Bookwise
Group Admin

7425343
It doesn't have to be a debate. It doesn't even have to be ponies, if that bridge is already too badly burned for you.

No obligations... just if you ever do sign on again and you see me online too, I'd be happy to hear from you, whatever the subject.

7425306
I hope so too, but in this new season of TV I've noticed some very ridiculous and contrived plots designed to show systematic racism.

Like a white patrol officer abusing a senior black detective out for the night and not allowing him to identify it, and not paying any consequences for it. In fact the Detective gets threatening phone calls telling him to back off, and when he calls for backup in a bad situation he is told by a smirking voice that this line is only for real police officers and if he doesn't want to be charged he'd better get off it right now.

Needless to say that is the last episode of that show I'll ever be watching.

All the debate aside as this should be a family show first and foremost. Rick and Morty background ponies is a descent line. A pepe or trumpolofigus in the back shouldn't be any diffrent. But propaganda going either way... ehhh... technicly we saw that as the last seasons just pushed multiculturalism as a D plot. But let's just agree those levels are just outright positive as Ponyville is Ponyville after all.

Honestly, news abaut series 5 got me hyped up. Twilight became a boring and pretty dung character after getting her authority. She previously shined as an underdog that discovers. Thats why i like the raceswap concept for G5 - She is a non-caster destined for magic. Her mind is made to overcome those challanges. This is bound to be intresting and -because of her entry level akwardness- entertaining.
Unicorn Fluttershy can mean her talking to animals, stare and other abilities would make more sence and you could tac more druid things on her like an instinct to hide by turning into a tree as a nice boomerang joke. Pegasus Pinkie would get gags that don't get repetitive as she'd propably be doing all with clouds or weather. I expect her to main cocolate rain clouds and cotton candy clouds once she "borrows" some of Twi's lab equipment.

Why do people so often against the raceswap idea? I mean here in the community, where we understand the concept of positive reinterpretation?

Emeral Bookwise
Group Admin

7425364
You might call it "contrived", but the sad truth is that kind of stuff really happens.

7425370
You might see a police officer roust a black man with authority, but there are consequences, and if you're talking about a black man who is your superior officer in the chain of command I refuse to believe that the detective would have no recourse.

Sytematic racism is a media narrative that is ripping our society apart.

Emeral Bookwise
Group Admin

7425373
Correction, there SHOULD be consequences, but there all too often aren't. You are right that systemic racism is ripping apart our society, but it's not because it's a false narrative, rather because it's an all too harsh reality that far too often gets swept under the rug.

7425377
Even Bill Mahar is calling Bull on systemic racism in the modern age.
I'm not going to debate it. This is not the forum for it, and opinions are too entrenched.

Emeral Bookwise
Group Admin

7425382
Bill Marar isn't an expert on the topic, so trying to appeal to his non-existent authority is no defense.

You are of course entitled to your own opinion, but this is not a debate. This is an official warning form me that while I remain a moderator on this forum, "opinions" like what you expressed are not welcome here. Discussion on how such things are portrayed in media is one thing, denying the provable existence of real problems that hurt real people is not.

7425390
As I said. This is not the forum for this debate. I should not have started it and I apologize for it.

Emeral Bookwise
Group Admin

7425404
Fair enough. As long as we are clear on that much, I shall consider the matter closed and sincerely wish you a pleasant rest of your day.

7425368
I'm not opposed to a race swap. However, the concepts you're referring to was at best, nothing more than concept art to test out different art styles, and at worst, a hoax, seeing as there's no evidence that the art was official. Let me revise that. At best, it was very early concepts that were scrapped a long time ago anyway. The news has been out for a long time that Gen 5 would have a completely different cast of characters.

Also, if they're going to make Pinkie Pie a pegasus, they might as well use the original idea that Lauren Faust had and make her Surprise.

Also, Gen 4 already did the race swap idea, considering that Gen 3 Rainbow Dash was an earth pony. Gen 3 Scootaloo was an earth pony too.

7425141

There's also the fact that I've come to terms with Gen 4 being done. I have anticipated a completely new world for Gen 5. Easter eggs and references are one thing. But continuing from Gen 4 is just a giant middle finger to anyone who wants the torch to be passed. It's making it so that it's not a proper Gen 5, but just a spin-off of Gen 4. I'm not even opposed to Gen 5 continuing from Gen 4, since my idea for a Gen 5 would've been to follow the CMCs grown-up, kind of as a reference to Lauren Faust's idea of having a spin-off kid show following the misadventures of the CMCs trying to earn their cutie marks. Or have it follow the adventures of the Young 6. Or even Luster Dawn and her friends.

Eh?

7426026
If you're confused, can you evaluate for me what you're confused about so that I can explain?

7426241
You said you don't want G5 to be a continuation, then say you wouldn't mind it being a continuation.

7426335
I see where the confusion is. I never actually said that I didn't want G5 to be a continuation. I just said that I've accepted that it wouldn't be and that it would be a whole new world. Perhaps I made a premature assumption about what G5 was going to be. But I believe, based on the info we had, that it was going to be completely separate aside from doing some easter eggs and references. And then they reveal that G5 will be in the same world as G4, and it's like me accepting the end of G4 means nothing. That's what I mean by the "giant middle finger".

I suppose what I'm saying is that I'm disappointed, not because G5 won't be what I expected, but rather because it will be what I expected it not to be. It's not that I'm opposed to a continuation of G4, it's just that I've proverbially closed the book on that world (not counting fan context of course). As I also said in that post that you quoted from...

I'm also probably sounding more disgruntled than I actually am.

I'm not angry or anything like that. I just find it as being jarring when I've accepted that G4 has ended. I also said that as long as it's different enough, and far enough in the future, I'll be okay with that. I'd even be okay with it still being while the Mane 6 are still around just as long as they aren't the main focus. And I do want to see more of Equestria. The Season 10 comic brings you to Zecora's homeland, for example, something people have wanting EVER SINCE BRIDLE GOSSIP.

On another note, when I first used the comment of a giant middle finger, it occurs to me that I should've used this image...
https://ch3301files.storage.live.com/y4pSeS4efvPutrsSx4pTMjCvv77pLFukuvLq0mVGqDMmBwpiuyjhPKQmomSuJ7Y3Eg8ooOfHRSSiFXeLImAJrc7vDBLuoydVrp3ct5a53Fn4kaQ8G5BMvaPnGpDe4SHOqUmX66UF1dpsm9MMiEIxI2qu6fPwV2Tvcj3frULNBq9ZnjALuaONlu_zw-yRzxYLqq9/1424657244409.png?psid=1&width=629&height=629&cropMode=center

7426015
We did not hear anything if the concepts were fully scrapped. If we see some kind of dimension jumping, this is what might be seen. I am not somebody who has any set expectations yet but we gonna see how it develops. I just hope it's something fresh enough and better organized so we might see proper worldbuilding. Hasbro can push any sort of product but bionicle showed it can be a masterpiece of a multimedia project.

But also be aware how the current face of the show completely opened the brand to the more aged up market. Economic CEOs might force the show to remain as close to what it is so to play the appeal safe instead of risky experiments. Those are the people who ussually know only analytics and not their product, not to speak of the audience.

7426473
Actually, yes we did. It's been confirmed that the G4 Mane 6 weren't going to be the main characters in G5. And do we need to hear if those ideas have been scrapped or not if those ideas were never confirmed to be official in the first place? And unless dimension jumping will be a plot point, then that news post all but confirms that it will be the same world and NOT a different one.

If they wanted to force the show to remain as close to what it was, then they wouldn't have a completely different art style, which was confirmed. And it'd be hypocritical if they played it safe, considering that G4 wouldn't have been what it was without Lauren Faust taking risks. I'd even argue that some of the issues in G4 were the result of playing it safe. Actually, that could be said about several forms of media. Playing it safe potentially hinders creativity.

How about rather than debate what we have little information on, how about we just agree to "just wait and see"? This discussion is becoming too heated for how little information we have.

7425322
Easy solution. View first 3 seasons as canon. Because they were the most "complete, with the MAKER of the whole thing somewhere in production. Everything else... Consider it "official fanfiction"...

I was actually thinking we might discuss Generation 5, but it seems like this turned into another moan-fest over Season 9. I'm going to try and bring it back around topic.

So assuming this is true, I'm a bit disappointed and a bit fearful about a continuation instead of a clean slate. It wasn’t trying to stick to a chronology that made G4 so great in the first place. G5 would have had an advantage starting its own, since G4 wasn’t even built from the start to be this gargantuan-running series. It actually would have been freeing, without this new show having to tiptoe around a bunch of precedent and power scaling. Which not even G4 was skillful at when when it came to ITSELF. A lot of lore didn’t add up or scale.

I'd have been down with new characters, or a reboot of the Mane 6. I was raised on different versions of Marvel, DC, TMNT, Transformers etc., so it wasn’t going to be an adjustment for me. I was really interested in the idea of Twilight being an Earth pony, and having to work her way around the disparity of being able to cast spells. That's actually one of the (many, MANY) elements I find interesting about The Owl House, with the main protagonist Luz trying to learn magic. I was also very interested in the idea of the 'realms' for the different pony tribes. It was a portrait of ponies at peace, but not at all in harmony.

(I'll also admit that after having really said "Goodbye" to G4, with everything I did or didn't love about it, it's really strange to be booting the world back up. I'm not sure if that's an objective criticism on my part though.)

I'm totally down with not only the effort to include a diverse cast, but where the point is made of reaching out to people who look different and led different lives. But here's the thing, G4 ended with the Elements of Harmony moving on to not just non-pony character, but species without any equine features at all. These species, and more, had begun immigrating to Equestria in The Final Problem fast-forward. Hasbro is certainly not going to be suddenly rebranding the franchise to "My Little Creature." A new cast of ponies getting the Elements of Harmony (or being some other kind of magically designated world savers) seems like moving backwards. Hopefully the new core cast can still find ways of illustrate people from different walks of life. Not only with expanding to some pony subspecies like Kirin, but also just coding the characters beyond Caucasian.

7425390
I knew there would be some people online pissing blood over the news of the "new" thematic direction (even though it's not new at all, that was clearly what G4 was trying to emphasize in its final seasons). I still remember the embarrassing reactions from even EARLIER possible leaks that AJ's rebooted personality (and actress) could be Black or Hispanic. This change in entertainment that represents broad changes in popular thought and demographics has been going on for decades in television and comics. Protagonist goals like "‘work to make the world a better place" doesn't sound any different from what all the Shonen Jump characters I grew up with yelled about. That quote even sounds like something from any theme song from the 80's, for other animated toy commercials.

We're just getting a deluge of people's totally-not-biased reservations because the internet continues to be both a refuge and spotlight for outdated modes of thought, and where people can bathe in their most primitive anti-social tendencies without real consequence. Also, we're just living through we're living through an era of general anti-progressive backlash. The majority of regressives in geekdom aren't full blown supremacists, forever-Trumpers, or dangerous nutcases like Jetfire2012. Instead the resistance takes the form of an aggressive apathy; individuals fortunate enough to not have to deal with discriminatory behavior and conditions in society, and take umbrage when someone tries to extend any kind of empathetic branch into their bubble. So creators and franchises who make baseline attempts at inclusion get slapped with accusations of "forced diversity" and "heavy handedness."

My actual source of fear for Generation 5 has been the animation. I keep reading about CGI, which could mean a lot of things. It could be the sterile, uncanny-looking work we saw with that "Hello Pinkie Pie" short on YouTube. My best-case dream scenario is something like the 2015 Peanuts movie, or the Captain Underpants movie. Not the exact same style and tools, obviously. But where even though it's clearly 3D models made on a computer, everything still looks like it popped off a glossy kids book.

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Anything that uses diversity as a selling point is NEVER good.

The point is letting groups of people, who have been mistreated for generations, that they'll be welcomed for who they are. It's about reaching out a hand of friendship. I'm told that's suppose to be a THING with this franchise.

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How do you depict diversity in a series that's more diverse than the human race?

Like say, giving main characters accents outside of American and British, and different customs and views on how the world works. I love the Kirin, but I think it would probably be good for the worldbuilding, and example set for children (and Hasbro's marketing) to give them actual Asian voice actors and accents. Then customs and architecture when we interact with population centers. Seeing as Asia is the general area where the myth sprang from. Then there's also the idea of actually doing something with zebras, who were meant to be analogous to Africa from Zecora's introduction. I like Zecora the character, but her episode's moral is kind of flawed. I also can't really challenge anyone who says she's kind of a witch doctor caricature who doesn't get much in the way of character development. (As far as actual show goes, I'm well aware that the IDW comics kicked off 'Season 10' with her origin story and return to her homeland).

Emeral Bookwise
Group Admin

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It could be the sterile, uncanny-looking work we saw with that "Hello Pinkie Pie" short on YouTube.

HPP might not be great, but I've seen far worse.

Really though, I think the quality of the writing in G5 will be far more important than the quality of the animation. A good story can make up for most any other shortcomings.

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I'll admit that I do like the idea of giving the Kirin Asian accents... if we can show that they came from another land. If they're from Equestria, or adjacent to Equestria. And I'd argue that there's no such thing as an American accent other than the generic accent. Different parts of this country have significantly different accents. I can identify 2 different accents from my state alone. But I digress.

My point is that to find diversity in accents, you don't just explore Equestria, you have to go beyond Equestria.

Also, are you implying that Canadians have an American accent?


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I've actually learned to enjoy shows just from the audio. Perhaps that's the result of listening to so many audio dramas. In other words, the visuals aren't that important (save for a few situational exceptions).

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I know there's more than one kind of accent that can be found in the United States or Britain. But most of our animation will just default to those regions' selections. Even when we did "go beyond Equestria," to meet the Griffons, Dragons, Changelings, Hippogriffs, and all the miscellaneous species in the movie, the baseline accent and speech patterns weren't changed up. Diversity isn't just the physical bodies, it's the coding.

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You have a point about the Hippogriffs. I don't think it's clearly stated where the Dragons live. As for the Griffons, the Griffon Kingdom is represented on the map, and that was before the movie where they travel beyond Equestria. As for the Changelings, if that hive qualifies as beyond Equestrian borders, it's too close to the border to matter. It's like an American going to the Canadian side of Niagra Falls. And on that note, being from a different country doesn't necessarily mean you have a different accent. I know that there are at least some Canadians who you wouldn't know weren't American by their accent. I play with one such Canadian in D&D. I would've never have known she was Canadian if she hadn't have told us herself. Going to a bordering country isn't enough. I think that they should go beyond that, perhaps to another continent.

Also, how well will accents translate when the show is translated into different languages? Even if Hasbro wanted to attempt the message of diversity with accents, that diversity may be lost in translation. Maybe not though. I've never actually heard other countries' attempts at accents.

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