In a thread where I posted about how you could create OCs by giving them the same last name as a canon character and then deriving their first name off a common theme, I did get a comment about this. How we have instances of "Rainbow Dash" vs "Bow Hothoof", and things like that. It did get me theorizing, to the point of this thread's existence, because I think I know what's going on there.

I remember hearing someone suggest that maybe Equestria just doesn't follow the family name conventions we know of; that there's some kind of cultural thing where they can get mixed up. However, this doesn't make sense to me, because we see plenty of human-like surname usage in MLP. Like with Filthy Rich and Spoiled Rich, who used to be "Spoiled Milk." In the episode where Pinkie believes she's distantly related to Applejack, they say "Apple family" and "Pie family", even though Pinkie's father, Igneous Rock, doesn't seem to have "Pie" in his name. Or does he?

In a few stories, I've seen Granny Smith get referred to formally with "Ms. Smith" even though her last name is probably Apple. You know, since a Granny Smith is a type of apple and her family is called "the Apples", it makes sense that her full name is "Granny Smith Apple." So with that formal address, they're apparently calling her by her second name. And I think that's exactly what's happening in a lot of these cases.

For example, with Rainbow Dash and her parents Bow Hothoof and Windy Whistles. There does seem to be a strange complete lack of a shared family name, unless you consider that maybe her father's full name is Bow Hothoof Dash, and he's just choosing to leave out the Dash part in most circumstances. Because his name sounds cooler that way, doesn't it?

Another reason I don't subscribe to the "some kind of cultural thing" idea is because of the pegasus sisters Pipp and Zipp from G5. How could siblings, of all relations, when neither is married to have changed theirs, have different last names? My theory is simply that they don't. That Petals and Storm are their middle names. In other words, assuming their mother is going by her last name, Pipp's full moniker would be Pipp Petals Haven, but she goes by Pipp Petals.

Then, as for Sunny Starscout's father being named "Argyle Starshine", well, my theory on that is pretty dark. Another way this kind of arrangement could happen, I feel, is if somepony bears the surname of a parent who has passed. We never see Sunny's mother even during flashbacks, so... what if the mother was a Starscout, who died during childbirth, prompting Argyle to give Sunny her mother's last name instead of his own, as a tribute? Very sad, but it's what comes to my mind.

On a bonus note, the terminology I've been using here may not exactly be correct in Equestria, because it would appear some ponies place their "last names" first, as people in China and Korea do. Like, with the G4 character Apple Fritter, it makes sense to assume that Apple is her family name and Fritter is her given name. But why would she want to be "Fritter Apple?" That sounds grammatically backwards; no surprise she'd want to write her surname first.

Looking forward to hearing your comments. 👍

7690148 Humans: Nooooo you can't just name yourselves whatever! Names are complex tools that help establish family ties, marital status, among other cultural significances! How will other people know you two are related?!

Some colourful horse: lol I guess I could like tell them? Lmao?

Names seem to have more of a personal significance to ponies rather than a familial one. I'm not really clear on how this works when ponies name, like, a baby (since their names seem to foreshadow their eventual personalities, usually), but their names seem to generally at least tangentially be related to some aspect of their personality. My take is that when belonging to a family is a major part of their character, they'll adopt some kind of family naming convention; for example, Applejack and the Apple family value belonging to the Apple family in a big way, so it dominates their names. Rainbow Dash, who isn't as fussed about family ties, doesn't adopt a form of family name (or theme, I guess... at least, not as explicit a one as the Apples. The Apples are more like a clan anyway, now I think about it).

Basically, the naming convention prioritises individuality over family ties, which is different to how we've historically done things but hey. I don't tell the magic horse aliens what to do. But, at the end of the day, they don't really explain it. It may even vary between different tribes of pony or locations. Headcannon away my man.

7690148
Eh... Headcanons are like underwear. Everyone has theirs and others may like it, but in the end it belongs only to however has them.

In my stories the ponies of the past used family names, but they left them behind as they started concluding that a pony's own identity is more important than what family they come from. Celestia may have been guilty of intentionally dismantling and burying the powerful families to whom this mattered.

7690165 I like that. 'Headcanons are like underwear, and trust me, we can see when they have holes in them.'

I also think it's more personal names than family ones. In the cases where a pony is shown to change their name in marriage, it's because they value the identity they derive from their marriage over the personal identity they held before it. (Chiffon Swirl becoming Mrs. "Cup" Cake when marrying Carrot Cake and the two of them starting a bakery, or Spoiled Milk becoming Spoiled Rich after marrying Filthy Rich to better associate herself with wealth and upward social climbing.) Thus neither Cadance nor Shining Armor changed their name after marrying, and gave their daughter a unique name unrelated to either of theirs.

(Oh, and Pinkie's dad introduced himself as "Igneous Rock Pie, son of Feldspar Granite Pie." Her mom, however, simply says, "Thou shalt know me as Cloudy Quartz.")

7690166
If your underwear doesn't have holes in it, it's not wearable...

--Sweetie Belle

7690166
They add character.

7690169

hmmmm. You make a valid point. I suppose I do rather need three of them. Or two, depending on how you rationalise the whole 'is a tube one hole or two' thing.

7690168

(Oh, and Pinkie's dad introduced himself as "Igneous Rock Pie, son of Feldspar Granite Pie." Her mom, however, simply says, "Thou shalt know me as Cloudy Quartz.")

Oh, I didn't remember that. Then my headcanon is correct with Igneous' case. Rock is his middle name, even though he's usually known as Igneous Rock. And as for Cloudy's case, she could have just kept her maiden name.

The personal name thing that you and 7690154 speak of is interesting, and yeah, it's a pretty big mystery how ponies somehow keep ending up with names that match their talents. But back to surnames, yeah, it is possible that some families simply don't pass down a family name and let it go wherever since they don't have a tight-knit theme. However, as we just said, Pinkie's father confirmed his surname to be Pie even though he doesn't seem to care at all about pies or baking. That would suggest "Pie" did get passed down as a surname, even if it didn't match everyone's personality, which is in line with how we use surnames.

It also feels strange to me to think of Filthy and Spoiled Rich not passing down the "Rich" title to their daughter, given how Spoiled loves to gloat about their wealth. And since we have a canon example of a pony going by his middle name in that "last name slot", I just go ahead and assume that it's the same way for this other family. That her full name is Diamond Tiara Rich.

7690166
Yeah, but it gets a bit ickier when people start borrowing other people's headcanons, or making theirs out of patchwork...

7690166

Headcanons are like underwear. Haven't changed mine in years!

7690196
Huh? I end up adopting other people's headcanons because I simply agreed with them and thus didn't have any alternatives that I came up with and liked better. That's a bad thing?

7690207
No, I do it too. It just gets a bit awkward with the underwear metaphor.

7690148
In my headcanon ponies used to have family names but eventually it just went out of fashion. So, some ponies have family name like Pinkie. Other ponies have deal similar to Apples where they integrate parts into their names. Most ponies have neither, instead getting spoilers related to their future talent.

I go by the idea they have a personal name and a family name.

AppleJack of the Apple Family and Big Macintosh of the Apple family. For example.

Twilight Sparkle and Shining Armor of the “Knight” family (just using knight as an example).

Celestia and Luna of the Heaven Family would be the Princesses named in this system.

Most times the need to use the “Family” name isn’t needed.

It could also be accepted if the Family name was in the Personal name. Like how Pinkie Pie uses the Pie name as part of her personal name. Even if her birth name was Pinkamina Dian Pie.

7690220
Hmm, yeah, that could be the explanation as well. Family names fell out of fashion, but some families like the Pies kept doing it, whereas others didn't. Interesting thinking.

7690220
Dose twilight have a middle name? Bevuse yoi comment made me think on how many fanfic refer to twñights family as "the sparkle family" and by that logic twlights full name wpuld be twilight spakle sparkle

Ps: i dont now but i remember of seeing somewere that twilights full name was "twilght amathyst sparkle"

7690224
In my headcanon it is mostly unicorn nobility or earth ponies who adhere to ancient naming conventions. Rest of ponies let mother take a (usually accurate) guess on what their child could become in the future.
With two major exceptions being ponies who are not very spiritual (so they can't guess fitting name for their kids) or ponies who would have troubling name (not many mothers would be willing to name their foals Warmaster or Skulltaker in peaceful Equestria, opting for more generic names instead)

7690148

Some said it already, but I also think it's individualized for family to family, and can vary wildly. Some families, like the Pies and Cakes, have actual surnames, while others families appear to use a theme in their names. The "Apple" family seem to just pick names related to apples, but "Apple" isn't their surname. It gets even weirder with Twilight Sparkle and Twilight Velvet. I've heard about know the Japanese often spell their surname first, then their first name, but "Twilight" doesn't seem to be used or thought of as a surname.

7690228

Does twilight have a middle name? Because yoi comment made me think on how many fanfic refer to twñights family as "the sparkle family" and by that logic twlights full name would be twilight sparkle sparkle

To be fair, that was in a fanfic, but officially, "Sparkle" doesn't appear to be a surname. Spike's full name even has more canon evidence for being "Spike the Dragon" (he was called that in the "Equestria Games" episode) than "Spike Sparkle." The latter, unless I forgot something, has no proof or even evidence of it and is one of the many things that are exclusive to fanfics. Although it would be a little funny if Twilight's full name is Twilight Sparkle Sparkle. it reminds me of how Mario from the Mario games has a full name of "Mario Mario."

7690231

Twilight Sparkle Sparkle.

Why not Twilight Twlght Sparkle Anyway, I remember there were a fanfic have Spike Solaris. Weird, right?

7690175
One for each hind leg, hopefully one for your tail, and a big one for the rest of your body to go in. Really, underwear is more hole than not, if you think about it.

--Sweetie Belle

7690236
Twilight was called Twilight Twinkle at one point, before Hasbro decided there were legal problems with that version of the name. Might be reasonable for her to be Twilight Twinkle Sparkle.

--Sweetie Belle

7690169
Can't have holey underwear if you rarely wear underwear

7690266
If you're a unicorn and you try wearing it on your head, you automatically have holey underwear!

--Sweetie Belle

7690270
And if you're a priest or a deity or the like, you have holy underwear

7690154
I mean, even Twilight's family has a tie to light and shine in general.

And somehow Rarity is an only name.

The pie family too has literally last names. Pinkie Pie, maud Pie etc. Even though they crack rocks.

I think the family tie is actually more present than you'd think.

7690236

7690245

7690250

7690228
In the case of that family, Twilight's mother could have kept her maiden name. Heck, maybe her motivation for not becoming a Sparkle was because of wanting to name her daughter after herself, but avoid the confusion of both being called Twilight Sparkle.

Or, I think it's possible that Velvet is the middle name. In line with what I've been talking about, the younger one's full name could be Twilight Velvet Sparkle Jr. whereas her mother is Twilight Velvet Sparkle Sr. Who knows.

7690273

I would guess Rarity's last name to be Belle, in line with her sister, Sweetie Belle, but yeah, she is one of the few ponies to never be given a second part of her name from canon.

As for more of ThePinkedWonder's comment - Huh, I never thought about Spike in regards to this. He has indeed never been referred to as "Spike Sparkle", but could his legal name really have a "the" in it? This does get weird...

7690273
Well... Rarity's running a business where first impressions matter, so if she did have another name, like, say, Rarity Flanks, she would've ditched it at the first opportunity. Kinda like how Marion Robert Morrison went by John Wayne, or David Robert Jones went by David Bowie?

7690277
She did sing "I'll be the belle of the ball" at one point, and it wouldn't have been unlike Rarity to be have a double meaning on that line...

--Sweetie Belle

Being from a culture that doesn't have surnames, (we have patronyms and the occasional matronyms aside from few individuals who do have family names due to inheriting them either from a foreign parents, or from families that managed to change to a surname before they were actually disallowed in the early 20th century) I have no problems with ponies not actually having surnames (or family names) names unless stated on screen and that parents have different names than their children or ponies having different names than their siblings.

Like for the Apple family, I'm in the Thorarens family but my surname is not Thorarens, I have a patronym because nobody in my family uses that as a surname.

Do I agree that ponies tie their names more to their identity rather than family, unless in cases where family is a big part of their identity.