Okay, let's imagine for a moment that MLP wasn't a show directed at younger audiences and was allowed to get away with darker storylines. My question is this: if you where allowed to reinvent one of the MLP villains for a darker storyline, what would you do with them and why?

Villains for this question include: Nightmare Moon, Discord, Queen Chrysalis, King Sombra, Lord Tirek, Starlight Glimmer, Tempest Shadow, The Storm King, The Pony of Shadows, Sunset Shimmer, The Sirens, Cozy Glow, and Grogar.

7462988
I'd remake Chrysalys. She wouldn't be like she is in canon at all. Instead she will be schemer who always loses... only her failures lead to her getting exactly what she wants. Every. Single. Time.

7462988
I wanna say Discord who actually takes things seriously, but that would just result in an instant-win for him at any moment. Literally the only reason anyone can beat him is his arrogance and inability to take anything seriously.

7462991
Sort of a reoccurring villain, then? I'd like that. I could imagine something like she has her changelings perform a bunch of small crimes around Equestria that would be stopped by the Mane 6, but each time they fail, a little piece of her bigger plan falls into place, until the season finale where all hell breaks loose.

7462996
Pretty much this. Or, things like my interpretation of Canterlot Wedding. Suddenly, out of nowhere problem arises. No one sees it coming. No one is prepared. But imposter made a mistake, was uncovered by Twilight Sparkle and banished by Cadance. So she lost... What do you mean "She consumed enough love magic to feed her Hive for century?!" How?! Why?!

7462988
Honestly, I'd go for the Shadow Pony first. They didn't do anything with him. He literally had a temple dedicated to him and was sucked into a vortex, implying he's some kind of eldritch entity.

Much like Sombra, he's a tasty cake we've yet to sink our teeth into.

I wish the Storm King had closer ties to Equestria. It seems like most of the good villains, with the exception of a few, had history with Celestia and Luna, or at least implied at having some sort of contact in the past. For Tirek, he was an invader who the sisters pushed away, Discord is alleged to be the rightful owner of Equestria and the chaotic land was taken from him once the sisters arrived with the other races in tow. Sombra had a battle with them but there was also a lot of room for theories and speculation for how deep his connection to the sisters ran. The Storm King meanwhile has no connection to anyone aside from his own troops. If I could rewrite the show I'd want him to have a deeper connection with Celestia, something akin to the relationship Spike and Twilight have. Celestia, moving on from the loss of her sister, finds an unknown baby creature abandoned in the forest and raises it to be a perfect gentleman. Unfortunately, she wasn't able to protect him from others and she failed the same way she had the Luna turned evil. The Storm King, feeling like nothing more than a pet for her to show off, renounces her teachings and travels far away to unite dozens of races together under his own ideals, a way of proving to Celestia that he could create peace between races better than she ever could. His plans develop more when he hears word of Spike, the "Brave and Glorious", the technical son of the solar princess.

Feeling slighted by her decision to adopt another creature as her "son" when he had never been called that, he rides off with his army to force Equestria to bend to his own twisted views of peace. In the end, he's betrayed by the one pony he actually trusted and returns home, planning to become more secluded from the rest of the world as Tempest is defeated by the Elements of Harmony.

7462988
Nightmare Moon could've remained as a sort of insanity in Luna, much more seriously portrayed than what the show did with the Tantabus, and there could be some scenarios where she ends up losing to it and they have to bring her back in a more direct and mature way rather then friendship cleansing.

Discord could be genuinely insane, not quirky fun like he is in the show but he actually has problems that makes him reject the reality he sees in the world and replace it with whatever he thinks would be better, even if it only makes things worse

Queen Chrysalis and her hive can easily make the episode a horror show if they crank up the shape shifting and deception. Have some actual ponies get punished by the paranoia of them being changelings and really fuck with the main 6 heads.
Also replace the cocooning with sucking all love leaving the ponies as a husk without any personality or emotions

King Sombra is easy, just show everything that the show implied before his banishment in full detail

Tirek's rush for magic could be taken as a sort of addiction that he needs to maintain himself, and have him being more ruthless in his endeavourd

For Starlight, give her ideology some proof to back up her claims and have her as a sort of political oponent to the princess. Someone you can't straight up threaten to beat up, but have to convince her that her ideology is wrong despite having reasons to believe it is.

Tempest Shadow could have been more threatening by showing, again, more ruthlessness in her actions chasing the girls. Get some of the friends the main 6 meet along the way killed or hace her destroy the airship.

The Storm King honestly doesn't have much character to make him better without remaking him from scrap.

The Pony of Shadows has a bit of the same thing as the previous. A semi solid being of evil. Having him cause some destruction before his defeat could've helped him.

Sunset Shimmer. Have her turn into demon and go alone to Equestria (because the teenage army thing was dumb) and have her confront Celestia in a very hard, dirty and emotional battle where Sunset demands what she thinks she deserves with each attack.

The sirens, have them actually use the angry teenagers as a weapon against the Rainbooms. Forcing Applejack and Rarity to fight their siblings, have the entire school double down on Sunset and her flaws.

Cozy Glow. Show some actual dark backstory about her being abused and learning at a very young age that the only way for her to feel safe is to have everypony else below her.

Grogar never appeared in the show, so I've nothing to work with. Probably have him appear and create an army by fusing ponies with different creatures

So like, I don’t care what anyone says - Chrysalis’ plan for the final conflict was Super Dark and, in a more adult show, would have been terrifying. She literally started a race war. Imagine is they had things like, her and her changelings turning into unicorns and spreading “earth ponies keep raping and foalnapping our foals!” Rumors and making a deep distrust and hatred flow through all three tribes.

And honestly even the concept of the changelings would be terrifying if played like Succubi/ Incubi but scary big monster version. Make them more gaunt, more starving, more desperate - suck the love out like vampires, with mandibles that leave strange marks that their magic makes you not care about enough t I ask where they came from. Blind devotion, glowing green eyes swirling with love and lust, a queen replacing a princess and shots of Cadence’s distorted, too-skinny form with the skin stretched too tight hovering over shining armor in bed, clicking noises of bugs from the walls...

Chrysalis is a horror character, absolutely.

7463015
Totally agree. Chrysalis and her changeligs are perfect horror movie creatures that in a more mature show would be the main threat to all life on the planet.

7463009
Now that you mention Sunset Shimmer fighting Celestia, I could imagine the entire conflict going similarly to the fight between Shifu and Tai Lung in the first Kung Fu Panda. Sunset has only ever sought power, at least before her redemption, and has the intelligence and magical prowess to achieve it. I could see her blaming Celestia for holding her back and keeping her from achieving the powers that only come from turning into an Alicorn. Her anger and her pride keep her from seeing her own mistakes and faults and force her to project them onto her mentor, but at the same time, Sunset turning out like this is just as much Celestia's fault. She trained Sunset hard and filled her mind with dreams of grandeur that ultimately poisoned her mind, but she refused to acknowledge this because she didn't want to push someone she cared about away like she did Princess Luna for risk of losing her. This would ultimately lead to the confrontation you suggest where both ponies put their all into an inevitable fight where both unleash all the anger and resentment they've been holding back in the time they've spent apart. In the end, whoever wins or loses, it would be up to Sunset to decide whether she truly wants power or if she wants redemption and the ability to rekindle her relationship with her mentor/mother figure.

7462988
Oh, trust me. I already did.

7463029
Yes, that was what inspired me to that.

We can't really tell what Celestia taught Sunset before she escaped, other than trying to make her see the importance of friendship (with little success)
I also sometimes wonder if Celestia had other students before Sunset, and of she didn't, why did she pick Sunset?
It's obvious why she chose Twilight, but Sunset didn't have much besides her magical prowess that even could've only bloomed after she became a student of Celestia

7463035
I imagine Celestia's school has been around for a long time, most likely for years even before she took on Twilight and Sunset as her pupils, so I imagine she's always been a teacher in a way, but probably in a more public setting rather then straight up mentorship. As for why she chose Sunset, that's harder to say. I assume she likely saw the same potential she Twilight and wanted to groom her into a intelligent and powerful but wise and benevolent magician who could help protect Equestria in time of turmoil. She could have possible also seen her as a potential bearer for the Elements of Harmony, because I don't believe Celestia specifically knew who would end up with their powers. But Sunset ran away before she could learn of the Elements and her potential destiny, and a good thing too, because it would just another thing to resent her mentor for come their confrontation.

7463049

I don't believe Celestia specifically knew who would end up with their powers

I honestly disagree. Not only Twilight has magic as her cutie mark, her cutie mark is almost identical as the actual element of magic. All other elements shaped towars their bearers but the element of magic always was a six pointed star.

7462988 It wouldn't take much to turn the Storm King into a much darker threat. He's already shown to be quite powerful and quite playful, so why not mold him more into the likes of The Joker? Beneath that playful exterior lays a dark and twisted heart, a mad man who doesn't care who he hurts in his twisted pursuit of power. And all because, to him, the world is already a dark and horrible place. So unlike others he embraces the madness.

Add in things such as him having killed Queen Novo's husband himself and being responsible for the extermination of multiple races and presto, you've got your perfect homicidal maniac.

7463009

Also replace the cocooning with sucking all love leaving the ponies as a husk without any personality or emotions

My version of Chrysalis did that.
Personally, I write Chrysalis like a horror villain, even when she's not in a horror story. She sticks to the shadows, creeps around, stalks in the dark. I agree that changelings are not as kid-friendly as the show would have you think. Imagine a pony dragged back to a hive, forced to live in the dark while being tormented by changelings that can take any form. It's definitely creepy.

7463059

Personally, I write Chrysalis like a horror villain, even when she's not in a horror story. She sticks to the shadows, creeps around, stalks in the dark.

I really like this version you're presenting.

I'm currently portraying her as a skillful spymaster. Something I don't think many use when writing about her is that she's as old as Celestia. That amount of time plus her legion of shapeshifter must make her aware of practically everything that happens in Equestria.

I agree that changelings are not as kid-friendly as the show would have you think. Imagine a pony dragged back to a hive, forced to live in the dark while being tormented by changelings that can take any form. It's definitely creepy.

Honestly horrifying.

Imagine your work down there for years and suddenly your captros turn into colorful versions of themselves and set you free to the life you had already left behind after so much time in captivity

7463063
In future stories after DoaQ, I wanted to do a storyline that focused on a war between Changelings and Ponies. The changelings will finally get to show off their ability to bring down empires.

7462988
I would start by photoshopping them together better.

It's one thing any good viilain needs, is good presentation. Look as menacing and bad ass as you can.

7463063

7463065

You two need to collab these versions together.

7463175
Never written a colab story before. Could be interesting. The closest we've ever gotten is Sleepless did the art for my story.

7463009
Pony if shadows and storm king I have a few ideas but for the storm king one simple act that changes his already dark theme into mature during the opening fight instead of ignoring Derpy who’s been turned to stone have him say this out loud for twilight and the others to hear.

“Surrender now princess give up your power to me or she dies.”

Only for hrmmmm yup definitely a dash thing here say to twilight while pulling her away.

He’s bluffing there’s no way he would do something like that come on we got to go.

Only for her to freeze as a loud smashing sound is heard and then a filly’s scream before a second sound of smashing is heard but the kind you would hear from a living beings skull being crushed of which leaves dash frozen in place and boom he’s not only murdered a pony in broad daylight but a child as well which also down the line leads to severe crippling self doubt hate and resentment towards dash by twilight as dash slowly breaks over the events leading to her personality becoming suicidal in attempts at atonement.

As to pony of shadows easy outwright hurting murder and psychological torture of his victims making them suicide

7462988
Ideas on cozy glow having her do much more the simple power schemes think sunset with the draining power of tierk starlights mind control and paranoia inducing lies and a few set ups to turn creatures on each other like deliberate provoking smolder or Gallus into attacking her draining a pony till death and making it look like ocellus did it and one of my more darker themes have her force sandbar into turning on his friends by her telling him she drained the pony and if he tells anyone or doesn’t do what she wants his sisters next.

Even have a whole dark revenge on the young six somewhere in the comments of https://www.fimfiction.net/story/460062/cozy-glows-tales-of-revenge somone even put get help as a reply there that messed up)

7463176
You both have great ideas for how dark lings could get and sleepless is great at writing horror

7462991
A practitioner of the Xantos Gambit , then?

7462988

Changelings could definitely influence ponies to be more paranoid.
Think the US during the cold war, "Anyone could be a communist".
Instead it would be, "Any pony could be a changeling."
What if Celestia after losing the magic duel with Chrysalis, went a more hostile route?
Putting together a team to reveal and hunt down changelings.
But this story would definitely cross MLP bounds.

And maybe Nightmare Moon if I can get her to come up with something a bit more than endless night.
Maybe if ponies want to live and to have light, they have to sacrifice blood?
Imagine something like the frostpunk game instead it's darkness vs light instead of cold vs warmth.
Ponies and other creatures cluster around a Pillar of Sun so they can live and not be torn apart by the hungry darkness outside.

I toyed with the idea of having some third party bring some windigoes to Earth so they could feed on the hatred there.
Then they would share it with their mother and grow strong. After a few more feedings, the windigoes would have enough power to start affecting Equestria and Earth. For Equestria, it would be the opposite of global warming, it would be like emotional chilling.

7462988
Nightmare Moon escapes at the beginning of season one... and doesn't get defeated until the end of season one, with the night lasting the entire season. We also expand on the Nightmare part of her title, as she retains Princess Luna's control of the dreamworld.

We also revamp Tirek as freed by Nightmare Moon, and her second in command, giving him some of G1 Tirek.

--Sweetie Belle

7462988
Check out The Dusk Guard Saga: Hunter/Hunted to see exactly what a fully realized Sombra (and his followers) are like.

7462988
They've all probably been done a dozen times on this site (if not a thousand for the older ones), but let's give it a go anyway.

For Nightmare Moon, one way is obviously to play up the "eternal night means everything dies" angle. Another, if that's somehow worked round or at least deferred, is for her to actually win power and show the limitations of her governing skills, especially in the face of her near-zero approval rating. Desperately wanting to be Celestia and not be Celestia at the same time, she's not incapable of decent ideas, but she's much more likely to come up with sucky ones and will brook no dissent. (Probably still more empathy and decency than half this list and several modern world leaders, though.) Could also play up the whole "Nightmare" thing, with her both spying on and tormenting dreams.

For Discord, you just play up his chaos and immature solipsism to the max. He uses his unmatched power to make of the world what he wants without any regard for others, and he loves to see conflict and disunity. (Think how the show would be awfully boring if the ponies always got along - then remove all sense of balance and take it up to twenty.) A world with no consistency from moment to moment at the whims of a god best entertained by Drama is bad enough - then throw in his ability to twist one's inner self inside out with a touch. And then start to consider the societies that would form in response - either chaos cultists or totalitarians for whom any deviation from strict rules is "proof" that you're his thing.

For Chrysalis and the changelings, well, they're honestly scary enough already, what with them all being picture-perfect shapeshifters (any creature, or even objects) who can all fly and use magic. Chrysalis herself is alicorn-class and can use mind control. The only thing which hold them back from a total victory in the show is Chrysalis's personality being terribly unsuited for the infiltration strategy their powers fit - she's just too egocentric and, well, dumb. Add just a bit more wicked cunning and patience, and she could likely have Equestria, quite possibly without anypony ever knowing. And even if her foolishness does doom her schemes, just the knowledge that changelings exist (and that there's no known way to easily detect or reveal them) should leave deep, deep cracks in freedom and trust in Equestria, with everypony looking very carefully at their neighbours, strangers, animals or even walls. A foe where the idea may cause more damage than the real thing.

Now as for Sombra... well, I pretty much already headcanon him as Pony Hitler. No, arguably worse, even, for there is no master race for him - all besides him are nothing. With his power to dominate minds, he has little need for collaborators - he'll take the ones he can get, since it helps drive their fellows into despair. And despair is his goal, the reason most of his slaves are bound by chains and not enchantments - he needs them to suffer more than he needs them to obey. After all, the city he controls is a giant emotional amplifier and projector - and just as the Crystal Empire of old radiated happiness and love across the land, he seeks to unleash waves of crushing misery. Perhaps because it dissuades and weakens his enimies, or perhaps just because he's a sadist who enjoys that sort of thing. Nopony knows the dark ruler's heart well enough to tell.

Tirek... is a bit of a tricky one, partly because his personality seems to change as much as his body as he devours magic. When weak, he's both willing and able to hide and scheme, and not that bad a tempter (though to be fair, he had an easy mark). But as his power grows, everything around him starts to look like a nail in need of a hammer. This fulfils some basic ideas of the growth curve of villain threat vs effectiveness. So I'd make sure to focus on that idea of change - while other villans mostly are what they are, Tirek is a foe whose endless hunger for power derives him to endlessly consume and grow, even if he loses much of his mind in the process and becomes a force of raw destruction. Still, at any level he has a certain practicality to him, a willingness to bargain as long as he might gain by it - in his greater form he just rarely sees the need.

Starlight Glimmer is an idealist and a hypocrite. Of all those on this list, she's the least likely to admit even to herself that she's a villain - rather, she's a lone genius who's bringing ponykind the salvation of the truth! Of course, she won't even admit the last part to herself either, because it doesn't really fit with Equalism, does it? So she has a few layers going on , where she's genuinely altruistic but also a huge egotist and tries to ignore the latter part because it doesn't fit her desired self-image. She wants to be accepted and have friends, but she also wants to be in control. So you get a superficially charming, domineering cult leader who can spin just about anything she does as being for the greater good. Oh, and who not only considers the laws of magic more like guidelines, but has the power to actually treat them as such.

Stygian/the Pony of Shadows is one of the simpler ones on here, really - a sidekick who bit off more than he could chew and is now lashing out in resentment. His supervillainy is perhaps the most cultivated on this list, a giant threat display that arguably has more bark than bite to it... but don't underestimate the danger of a misfit lashing out, especially since the dark magic he wields is likely similar to that used by Nightmare Moon and Sombra.

The Storm King would probably the the one most in need of an overhaul - showing him commanding storms (without stolen alicorn power) or acting as a king might help. Alternatively, he could be replaced entirely by a more centrally played Tempest Shadow, an Equestrian outcast who not only survived in the harsh world outside but returned with an army to take her revenge on the land which rejected her. But really, Tempest can slot in a lot of places, whether as ruler, general, or even mercenary.

Lastly but not leastly save in personal power, we have Cozy Glow. I have to admit, she's my favourite in some ways - a mere pegasus filly with both the ambition to reach for the world and the intelligence to almost grasp it. But at the same time, still with enough foolishness of youth to form insane plans with huge logical holes and based on thorough misunderstandings of friendship. She was much more likely to die trampled underfoot in a dying world than come out on top... but she would still have been the one who killed it. And her "mask" is amusing too, both when it holds and when it slips.

The Dazzlings are more of an EQG villain, so I suppose that just leaves the windigoes, and they're pretty simple - just magical "animals" born from the icy winds of the north who eat hatred, crap winter blizzards and have learned how to freeze their most promising morsels at the peak of their output. They're not really characters, though - just beasts.

Hmm... I suppose this ended up being more me talking about the villains than reinventing them, but I hope it helps!

7462988
Arguably Sombra, the Pony of Shadows, or Tempest could work more. Like, the Pony of Shadows could also be like, symbolic of something like depression, doubt, etc

Sombra has the best setup to be expanded into a grittier (I hate that word), credible but also a more persistent threat. Sombra's in control, that's the impression you usually get. however when he's supposed to be losing, he's clinging to the idiotball like it will whisper the worlds' secrets to him.

With the power he has he shouldn't just be throwing it around. Someone in his position is already aware that conflict and setbacks are to be expected, especially with the princesses. So why does he strike so early without a decent powerbase?

King Sombra as I would reinvent him would lean on minions, plans and dark magic more to reach his goals.

The main inspiration on this would be the mind control and fear he inspired.

So instead of always facing of directly against his enemies and have his army not have an impact, I'd have him raise a dark crystal city in the north, filled with crystals ponies and dark entities made with magic.

This pony is all abiut plans and multiple goals.

Need to steal the crystal heart? Coerce, threaten or blackmail a crystal pony into doing it. Plan foiled? No problem, the actual set up is part of a long term plan to make them worry that anypony could be in league with Him.

Any confrontation he might get into, he has an escape plan. Turn into a dark mist, use illusions, possess a minion.

Give him something defensive that would deter equestria from threatening him on his own turf. Maybe make an "official peace" where it devolves into a cold war scenario where both sides want to avoid all out war. skirmishes and espionage acts are covered up by both sides to preserve the peace.

Sombra might turn political and have secret agents.
A fun chapter would be when changelings, sombra's agents and Luna's thestrals all think a discontent bookseller/hostelowner is an a powerbroker because they each think the other two work for him.

So, make Sombra a fixture, rather than a failure.

Ever play D&D using ideas off that I make it with an adventurous like story where friendship is taught but the lessons have a serious like approach and the villains are true threats the moral of should they be killed imprisoned would always linger their is often the question of right and wrong.but though it all the characters would prevail.

Hmm, windigoes aren't really shown as anything but mindless beasts. Either give them some character, or have one of the more threatening villains take control of them. Sombra would be the most likely, since he does live in the Frozen North and utilizes dark magic.
For Sombra himself, I would change him into a dark genius. The realm of dark magic is largely unexplored, and he shows a surprising amount of control as far as we've seen. Overhaul the image of a child-king that was portrayed in season 9, it's a waste and you already have that with both the Storm King and Discord in that role, where the latter plays it far better than the other two.
Chrysalis could be a desperate ruler. It's shown in season 2 that it could easily work. Have her trying to keep her subjects from starving, and going drastic measures to do so. Not necessarily creeping others out, but ones who could play with your emotions like a toy. Expanding on the idea of ponies not trusting each other, have them not know who exactly is the enemy. Not only among their own kind, but among the changeling race in general. Chrysalis could play the gambit where they fake protect/attack Equestria, and the attackers could be the ones that drain the life out of others.
The Storm King, well, like others have said, to make him dark there would have to be a complete overhaul of his character. Have Tempest instead be the real mastermind and the Storm King be the puppet.

Above all, show us what actually would have happened. In the Crystal Empire under Sombra's reign, there had to be deaths. Show us the dark king's twisted experiments, the death from overexposure to the minds, suicide. Chrysalis, show us the zombie-ponies, what happens when you stay in a cocoon too long, death by too much love being taken out. The Storm King, show us how his army rules over the already conquered lands. Have it be a more ancient army in the concept, where there were concubines, spoils, slaves that would serve the soldiers.

7462988

First, Discord. I would not actually reinvent him, just banish him back in the end, or at least take his magic away. Because if causing disasters is his essential trait which cannot be removed, his power is more dangerous than useful, and one friendship has to be sacrificed to defend many lives.
===
Crysalis, Sombra and Storm king feel... puny. AN ENTIRE EMPIRE as twilight said turned out a village, same for the changeling kingdom some still miss, and Storm King's invading army just disappeared after his death.

The problem with changelings also comes up to question whether or not they can get love without hurting others: if no, thigs are the same as with discords and ponies shoul not tolerate parasites; if yes, their entire species is dumb if did not discover it yet. However the village-kingdom is the only things that allows Chrysalis to be basically that one bad guy who somehow makes hundreds of others to do bad things and turn them good by being removed. So as for more dark changelings, either not-bugs or more bugs with redemption arc being about transforming from swarm to society of independent people.

Sombra is a meme with how worthless he was with only a bunch of brainwashed zombies behind and no real motivation. Somethings needs to be done about him, however I can't grasp what exactly. Show the real threat of Equestria turning into tyrannic empire of evil with crimes and stuff?

Storm King is just incompetent, really. Similar to Sombra. He should not be defeated with almost same cast as in the beginning and have plans beyound stealing magic. Also his army could retreat instead of disappearing and continue to do their things under new command. Is not this how armies are supposed to work?
===
Next one which troubles me is Pony of Shadows. They went almost lovecraftian in the comics prequel, so why not remain? Like, make a real thing from that DAHKNESH, a pure and real evil. Real, not like windigos who exist only to make three pony races of Equestria live together.
===
When Grogar's bell appeared, he started to look yet another I-steal-your-magic MLP villain. That's boring. However, because of his claim about creating mix-and-match monsters from all over the show, I imagined him something like Discord, but actual maniac instead of bored overpowered god. A walking apocalyple which mutilates reality by his presence, not just painting grass and making it rain chocolate, but making everything plain straight destuctive and self-destructive. An agent of the said darkness who does it because he can and has absolutely no reason, so never, ever can be redeemed and turned good. Because magic comes into play, things change.