Hello again,

So, slight revision to one of my stories:

In a revision to 'Twilight's Kingdom,' Tirek attacks the Crystal Empire, where one of my OCs (a HIE mage named Roxie) lives. Working together with Cadence, the crystal ponies and some changelings, Roxie is able to reverse Tirek's power draining ability so they end up draining the magic from the centuar.

Roxie gets Tirek dead to rights after a hard won fight, and wants to kill him to ensure he never threatens her friends again (i.e. she low-key predicts the events of Season 9, and wants to keep said events from happening.)

Consider it's Tirek, would Cadence and the ponies be willing to let Roxie kill him? Or would they try to talk her out of it, since they're supposed to be the good guys? I'm guessing that they'd more likely talk her out of it, but again, since it's Tirek (whom Celestia canonically turned to stone after deeming him, Chrysalis and Cozy Glow irredemnable), I just want to be safe.

Thanks again for all your feedback.

7293999

This could be a tricky one I say, but if the ponies in your story are mostly the same as their canon selves and aren't too different from character development in the story, I'd say they would want to try to talk Roxie out of it. It also helps that ponies generally aren't as willing to kill like a human might.

But since I remember you said that you like characters being gray, if the ponies in your story are more grey than in canon, and given how Celestia and Luna turned Tirek, Chrysalis, and Cozy to stone in the season 9 finale, they might not step in, or maybe give a weaker try at talking Roxie out of it so if Roxie needs a strong effort to not do it, they might just step aside, being on the grey side.

However, if Roxie's way to kill Tirek is on the brutal side, Cadance and the other ponies might object due to that reason, even if they're more grey.

7293999
I am currently writing a chapter in a story where a character calls out another for something similar but to a much larger degree. The basic idea I roll with, and it's something you might want to keep in mind when thinking why heroic characters don't kill their opponents who might simply go at them again, is this that she says to him:

"Don't abandon your morals when it is convenient."

Which is what you're asking here. Does Cadance believe in her morals or not?

7293999 Can you remember one instance of the main cast, after defeating an opponent, deciding to kill them?

Look, the main dudes will blast you with friendship lasers in the heat of battle, which can have a variety of delightful effects (most of which involve imprisonment, either in the moon or in stone, or you're unlucky and are Sombra, in which case you might just get disintegrated, but then again you were already a shadow so that's probably just what you get). They don't tend to execute their prisoners, though. Even Celestia, who isn't quite as committed to friendship and tolerance as Twilight, is more likely to take you out of imprisonment and try to put you to good use than to put you down.

Yeah, we can imagine contexts where the main cast might be pushed to more extreme actions by circumstances or necessity, but those circumstances are going to probably be a bit more dire than someone saying 'hey they might escape imprisonment'. Especially when they now have more power to control any potential escape or rebellion thanks to OC's overpowered abilities than they did before. They are less at risk than they were when they re-imprisoned Tirek the first time, so why would they take more extreme action? Sell it.

Good cadence good, kill him, kill him now
Do it.

But yeah we've never seen any creature die, except the storm king, so they probably wouldnt allow his execution

Thank you guys very much for your feedback.

7294072
Roxie's execution of Tirek would be on the brutal side; due to her reversing his magic stealing effect, she was tempted to push it so that even the magic in his life (his soul, so to speak) would get pulled out. Essentially, she'd be pulling a Shang Tsung on him.

It's pretty brutal, and I was pretty sure that my pony characters (who still stick to their original characterizations despite being a bit more gray) wouldn't be comfortable letting Roxie do it.

7294126

"Don't abandon your morals when it is convenient."

This is exactly what I was thinking. Cadence is still shown to be very close to her canon counterpart, and would likely tell Roxie this.

Also, someone once mentioned that many HIE fics tend to have the human talk down to the ponies and tell them that the human way is better. I liked the idea of an argument of philosophies occurring, with Roxie ultimately being talked down, and the 'don't abandon your morals,' feels like an excellent counterpoint to Roxie's more pragmatic reasons.

7294132

Can you remember one instance of the main cast, after defeating an opponent, deciding to kill them?

I admittedly cannot. My worry revolved mainly around the actions that Tirek took show-wise, combined with the fact that later on, he's turned to stone. Looking back, though, I remember that Discord was also turned to stone, though he was allowed out later when Celestia decided that he could be put to use.

And in Roxie's case, the situation isn't really dire. They've taken Tirek down with the reversal spells, and Roxie is suggesting they push it a little further.

Though minor note: the OC herself isn't the only one using this ability. If she had been using the spell on her own, Tirek's strength would've overpowered hers and sucked out her magic. It was due to her linking with other powerful unicorns, like Cadence, Shining Armor and Twilight, that they were able to overwhelm Tirek's strength and drain his magic out. Think of it like a game of tug-of-war; Tirek would initially be able to pull Roxie over the line, but when Cadence, Shining and Twilight step in, they're able to pull back.

7294179

Good cadence good, kill him, kill him now. Do it.

Great reference. Love it.

Thank you all again. I really appreciate you guys helping me with that.

7293999
I think if he's drained and helpless, they'll try and discourage her, not for his sake but more for her own - attacking those currently unable to harm you would come across as a sign of powerful hatred. I'm assuming they are able to safely contain him, at least long enough for him to be returned to Tartarus?

That said, they will sympathise - both are willing and able to kill to protect their people, and will do so if he poses any further immediate danger.

7294185
Given those details, they're definitely won't let her if he's not an active threat, and she can't do it without them. So the matter is settled for the moment, barring any resulting resentment (did you settle who was in charge, btw?). If Tirek does return later, than Roxie can be all "I told you so", and depending on circumstances Cadance/Shining might agree or talk about the whole "principles aren't just for when it's convenient" thing, but will be more on board with killing him that time.

7294246
Thanks for the extra feedback.

Yeah, I settled on who was in charge, and like you mentioned, Roxie would need the ponies aid to pull off the Shang Tsung thing, so the matter would be settled the instant they pulled out. And while Roxie would be more than willing to call them out when Tirek returns later, she wouldn't really resent them. She'd mostly just be nervous, and would strive to make sure the Empire was a little more defensible in case he comes back sooner rather than later.

Thanks again.

7294260

Yeah, I settled on who was in charge,

Are you going to say? I'm guessing from the context, not Roxie.

The state of relations with Equestria is also important, given that they were the ones who let him escape - can they be trusted to take him back?

7294268
Right, sorry.

Roxie's more of an advisor or second in command to Cadence. Though she's held in high enough respect that it's not treated as a subservient position.

And, of course, the state of relations is important, but ultimately, since Cadence still out-ranks Roxie, it's up to her on what to do. Roxie can advise her, but Cadence ultimately gets the final say.

Probably not the power fantasy some might be looking for, but Roxie isn't completely powerless.

7294269
But she can't just go "off with his head!" either if Cadance says no.

What she might be listened to more is in a discussion of whether to send him back to Tartarus or not. Though I'm not sure which side she'd take...

7294278
Yeah, no, Roxie is no Red Queen.

The discussion is more up Roxie's alleyway. And once Cadence disagreed on killing Tirek, Roxie would tell her to at least buff up the Crystal Empire's defenses. Something Cadence couldn't really argue with, as it's sound advice.

7294289
I think increasing the defenses would be a no-brainer - Roxie, Cadance and Shiny are all very protective types. If anyone objects, it might be crystal ponies who remember when the city's defences were used to keep ponies in rather than threats out.

7294289

at least buff up the Crystal Empire's defenses. Something Cadence couldn't really argue with, as it's sound advice.

I have to say, this is something a lot of fans keep shouting, but...

• Nightmare Moon: Stops the sun from rising and everything dies.
• Discord: Reality Warper.
• Crysalis: Captures leadership as hostages, and has an inflitration army.
• Tirek: Drinks your essense and all magic that exists.
• Pony of Shadows: Undoes the dimension.
• Starlight Glimmer: Makes it so you never existed.

And so on. How is building walls or having more guards or an army is ever supposed to stop any of that save from making the villains idiotic enough to go against your army (if they care at all, example Discord and Tirek)?

Not to mention that this is what enemies do; they check your strengths and attack your weaknesses. The only way to be secure in a world of magic is to be prepared for everything, in a world where everything is possible.

Good luck with that.

7293999
If possible.... can you also make sure Cadance predicts that the main events of Season 9, aka... Celestia and Luna retiring and passing the ruling down to Twilight Sparkle only, never happen at all?

7294305
Why the everloving fuck a human, who is in charge and wants to help a different country, have visions and/or care that two gals want to retire and try to stop them?

Should she also go to parties and punch people's drinks out of their mouths lest they try to relax and rest?

7294320
Because I still have my beliefs: Celestia and Luna didn't even give a single flying thought of wanting to retire at all. Heck if you look at the past 8 seasons prior to Season 9, it wasn't even mentioned at all. AT ALL.

7294323
Let's assume you are right, and the concept of not needing something explicitly said is gone.

How does that answer my question?

7294330
Touché

But I will see if Three Tails replies to my suggestion or not. Then you will see.

7294335
See what? An author throwing away all semblances of plot and characterization in order to fulfill a fantasy for no rhyme or reason? That would be a victory for you?

7294339
Didn't think of anything to say beyond you will see.

-regains confidence- Who knows: Maybe this user will see that he hates the Season 9 main arc just like me.

7293999
7294126

I know it's kind of late in the context of this conversation, but in my opinion the FBI lady in the show Hunters laid out being morally upstanding incredibly well.

"It isn't that the good guys always have to choose to do the right thing. It's that choosing to do the right thing makes them the good guys."

And I think that goes hand-in-hand with Crimmar's question about whether or not Cadance (or any 'good' character) truly believes in their own morals.

7294303
To be fair, I didn't say 'build a wall.' I said 'shore up the defenses.' Roxie's an HIE, but she has figured out magic, and she knows that the ponies have just as much to offer as she does. So, she wouldn't just recommend 'build a wall' or 'make armies stronger.' She'd recommend magical defenses. She'd encourage Cadence to start thinking about more situations like the ones you described, and how they can counter them.

Like you said, everything is possible, so the only way to be safe is to plan for everything. So, Roxie would recommend that they brainstorm ideas on how to be prepared for anything.

It's not completely perfect yet, but then again, it's boring if it's perfect.

7294305
And considering the argument you two had, I'm a little nervous about entering this territory.

But, honestly, I don't really see how Roxie or Cadence would be able to predict or try to prevent Celesita's retirement. It doesn't really have anything to do with Tirek. And even if it did, like Crimmar said, it's something that's being handled in a different country. Roxie doesn't really know Celestia that well, aside from what Cadence has told her. And if Cadence is okay with Twilight succeeding Celestia, then Roxie wouldn't see a problem with it. It's simply not her business.

I will admit, that I kind of wish Celestia or Luna had mentioned or built up that they wanted to retire, to allow better build up to the Season 9 arc of Twilight truly becoming Celestia's successor, but I'm not sure if my fanfic is what you're looking for if you want that to be completely changed up. It doesn't really have much to do with my story.

And I've seen what happens when writers throw away their plot and characterizations in the hopes of pleasing everyone. Let's just say, it doesn't end well.

Either way, thank you all again for your feedback.

7294364
-sigh- You're welcome. :/

I'm just.... bothered by it so much. I mean, Twilight was pretty much happy with her own life path in the first place. She doesn't need to be a ruler at all. :/

7294364

To be fair, I didn't say 'build a wall.' I said 'shore up the defenses.'

Here's why I brought this up; it seems, from the little I've seen, that your character making suggestions and changes is a big part of the story. When covering a part where your character argues, in some important way or capacity save for an off-handed comment, about defending the place, then it might be a good idea to have one or two good suggestions. Something feasible and not eye-gouging obvious, not to mention actually working; either as a deterrent, warning system, or reaction/defense.

Pro-tip: You don't need to have your character offer suggestions that are suited for fighting a future threat we know is coming from the show. 1) people gear up for the last war fought; it would make sense for some plans to be set up in case of a similar Tirek scenario, and 2) you can have her offer some suggestions that while they are not, say, against time meddling or anything, they can still be a good idea in case something possible happens, even if it never does in your fic or never did in the show. You don't have to be right in a meta way, you have to be right in-character.

Example for 1): Giving a sort of security bracelets (or something else) to important personnel like Cadance herself. Infiltration, kidnapping, and impersonation, have been done and are valid tactics. Making sure your princess has the magic equivalent of a GPS signal on her so you know in which castle she is, is not a bad idea (bonus as it would help prevent stuff like the vines, Crysalis and the antimagic thing, etc).

7294185
Technically they only let Discord out after he escapes the first time. There's no way to know what they would've done had he not broken out and it's unclear whether Celestia even knew if he was alive in there.

That said it's your story and we have no way of knowing for sure of knowing how far they would go. Also it's not like we know a whole lot about what Cadence is like either way. I don't see it but there's a lot of things in season 8 I didn't predict either so who knows.

7294377
Sorry for the late reply; my power went out, and I just managed to get it back up.

But, anyway, I really like these ideas. Especially the security bracelet. Roxie would definitely recommend those, along with secret passwords among the captains; passwords that would be different based on each member. For example, Cadence and Shining's password would be their pillow talk, or Roxie and Cadence's password would be a secret Roxie shared only with Cadence. That, combined with the security bracelet, would surely protect against Changelings. And after Tirek's defeat, Roxie could recommend the bracelets be updated with what she'd call a 'Tirek Protocol;' a spell that makes some sort of barrier that drains the magic away from anyone that tries to attack them. Mass-producing the counter to Tirek's power to be used in a way to non-lethally take down foes, and as a way to prepare against any future threats, but simply draining the magic for their attacks away. It would still have kinks to work out, and they'd need to improve it as they encountered other forms of magic (The Storm King's obsidian grenades come to mind), but like you said, Roxie doesn't have to see the future.

Thank you very much for the ideas.

7294376
And yeah, I get what you mean. Twilight did seem happier as a student and scholar. Making her a princess did feel a little bit like a cash grab, and Celestia resigning mostly felt like a way to end the show, but lacked build up to it.

If you'd like, I'd like to recommend 'Parting Words,' a fanfic that might be more up your alleyway. In here, Twilight, after a serious disagreement, resigns as Celestia's student. It was made before Twilight ascended, and contains a canon where Celestia doesn't make Twilight into a princess.

Hopefully, it will help address the topics you didn't like about Season 9.

Thanks again for your feedback, and have a great day.

7294474
Plus it was kind of 9 seasons too late to use an idea that Lauren Faust had originally. I mean.... well, No. 1 rule when you create stuff into official material: When you come up with something that is finalized, you can no longer use an original idea before the final cut.

I will check it out from time to time. :)

You're welcome. :)

7294303
You prepare for what you can, and doing so helps your people feel safer, (And in the case of crystal ponies, public morale is even more vital than usual.)

When you come up with something that is finalized, you can no longer use an original idea before the final cut.

7294540
I think what he means is (and I agree with) that the evolution of the story over time can make originally planned endings not really work.