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AC97 #1 · Jul 29th, 2020 · · ·

Ah... Chrysalis, one of the most interesting irredeemable villains out of the bunch. It's not just the fact that she's arguably the most sadistic villain in canon (although that's definitely a factor), her appealing voice, and the fact that she has style up the wazoo, part of it is also how, in the end, she's her own worst enemy, in a lot of ways, the dumbest smart villain (she is intelligent, but lacking in common sense).

For the sake of this (long) analysis of her character arc, how it relates to "self-destruction," we're gonna start all the way back at her debut, and move all the way to the end.

At that fateful wedding, she had never even pretended to be pleasant as "Cadance," she didn't do enough research for it to be an overly convincing impersonation... and that was only the beginning. When she had Twilight convinced that she was in the wrong, what does she do? ...She sends her straight to the real Cadance, and tried to trick Twilight into attacking her, to possibly kill her.

After that failed, Cadance later shows up (after, to Chrysalis' surprise, getting past lackluster guards she'd made do with, which they didn't exactly seem like they'd be indomitable in a fight anyway, even if it wasn't as simple as "jingle and toss a bouquet") claiming her to be an imposter... so she basically immediately uncloaks to gloat... when she wasn't sure she could beat Celestia in a fight, instead of stalling for time in a different fashion, rather than erasing all doubt.

Queen Chrysalis: What? But how did you escape my bridesmaids?

Princess Celestia: No. You won't. You may have made it impossible for Shining Armor to perform his spell, but now that you have so foolishly revealed your true self, I can protect my subjects from you!

(the episode seems to agree that it was a foolish move, doing that)

And she finally basically engineered her own defeat (which, again, did involve multiple steps, starting with the end of the first part) when she scoffed at the Power of Love... when that's how she got (temporarily) more powerful, when there seems to have been a historical precedent for that being a thing, with the Windigos, and such, even without an alicorn involved.

Shining Armor: No! My power is useless now. I don't have the strength to repel them.
Princess Cadance: My love will give you strength.
Queen Chrysalis: [chuckling] What a lovely but absolutely ridiculous sentiment.

To make matters even worse, if you think about it, something seems profoundly... irrational, insane, about attacking a city, in broad daylight, with an army of shapeshifting parasites, as if it were largely for the sake of her own ego from the beginning, enacting what's essentially a terrorist attack, if her song's reprise is anything to go by.

(and contrary to what a lot of fanon went with, even going by S2 only, you'll notice that Chrysalis doesn't put any emphasis whatsoever on her changelings apparently "starving")

Queen Chrysalis: [laughing] Right you are, Princess. And as queen of the changelings, it is up to me to find food for my subjects. Equestria has more love than any place I've ever encountered. My fellow changelings will be able to devour so much of it that we will gain more power than we have ever dreamed of!

(...it seems to mostly have been in the context of "more power;" I think it was only ever a long shot, thinking that "why don't you just ask for love" would've ever worked with her, even based off of S2, as more than one person has gone with, in stories and otherwise, when it's plain as day throughout she's motivated largely because she enjoys it, which in and of itself made her evil; she wasn't some reluctant extremist)


Moving on from there, to S6, Chrysalis managed to actually leverage her army's abilities properly that time, opened up with a stealthy operation... and I think it says something about her that she didn't open up with that kind of plan the first time, or play the long game, or something of the sort.

Now, did she learn from her mistakes the first time?

...not really, no.

Queen Chrysalis: Well, well, well. The Princess of Friendship's sole pupil. Honestly, I didn't think you were worth replacing with one of my drones.

She not only failed to truly learn from underestimating others the first time, but if you pay attention to the dialogue in the first part of that finale, you'll notice that her drones did not seem to even know who Starlight Glimmer was (not even the somewhat competent Changeling impersonating Twilight Sparkle; Starlight's name, and her position, as Twilight's pupil, were not acknowledged by any one of them), which would've only ever aroused suspicion, if they weren't briefed on such basic information.

Queen Chrysalis: Very clever. And clearly Thorax revealed to you the secret of my throne. I can't have powerful ponies using their abilities against me.

It is also easy to notice that throughout her appearances, she doesn't admit to anyone that she makes mistakes, not even to herself. It's their fault for using abilities against her, not hers, for basically giving them the chance on a silver platter on multiple levels, the way she sees it.

And of course, after she paid the price in the events that proceeded from trying to execute Thorax, she spat on Starlight's offer, costing her almost everything.


When we get to The Mean 6, what some people see as a disappointing episode... I see as an excellent showcase of a metaphor regarding Chrysalis' character.

The Mean Six are basically a look into Chrysalis' mind, as a whole.

Mean Twilight Sparkle: Why didn't you just attack them?
Queen Chrysalis: Excuse me?
Mean Twilight Sparkle: You were close enough to pull hairs from their manes. Why not just take your revenge then?
Queen Chrysalis: They've defeated my army. I know better than to strike alone. I need—
Mean Twilight Sparkle: Friends?

Mean Twilight's first thought was "why aren't you taking the simpler option," and realistically, the other element is "because the easy way is too simple" in Chrysalis' thought process, as shown right before she created them.

Queen Chrysalis: Of course I haven't forgotten Starlight Glimmer! She stole my hive. Turned my subjects against me! So I'll take her friends away while she watches! And then, I'll destroy her!

(it's obvious that "kill them in their sleep" is too merciful in her eyes, not grandiose enough, not enough opportunity to gloat... kind of like her S2 plan to begin with)

Mean Twilight is an idealized version of Chrysalis, one who doesn't have her inherent vices ruining her plans on an individual basis, who ironically seems to have more self-awareness and self-control than her creator ever did. The other five? They're heavily one-note, and they all reflect Chrysalis' defining traits: sadistic cruelty, greed, selfishness, and her dishonest nature, to the point that they outright hinder themselves at multiple points (Mean Applejack, for instance, got Starlight to run off, by being a prick).

And in the end, when Chrysalis' style of leadership at least helped push the other five into siding with Mean Twilight, Mean Twilight was going to beat Chrysalis on her lonesome, no drained love to boost the latter's power temporarily... but the other five had triggered the Tree of Harmony's defense mechanism, and all six of them died.

An apt metaphor for how Chrysalis' vices will hinder her underlying intelligence, her competence, at each and every stage. Mean Twilight, her idealized self, would've won, and the other five, Chrysalis' personified vices, did "ruin everything."

Queen Chrysalis: Servants always fail you in the end!

(it definitely wasn't a factor, her leadership style, just ask her... right? Also, it can't have been that the plan was doomed from the start if they don't even embody the same virtues as the actual Element Bearers, and weren't friends)

Queen Chrysalis: With the Elements under my control, I'll build a new hive of Earth ponies, unicorns, and Pegasi, and I will rule as Queen once again!

(Also noteworthy, how she didn't seem to really care about ruling over Changelings again, in particular)


To cap it all off, with S9, in Frenemies, she is obviously too stubborn to admit Twilight could ever be right (and she still cannot let an idealized version of herself go, befitting of her gigantic ego), and so she rejected even being friends with her worst enemies' enemies.

With the last two-parter, you get to see how in the end, Chrysalis hasn't really learned anything from her experiences, to her narcissistic sociopathic core. Even if she can use teamwork better, she has the same signature flaws, and it shows.

Cozy Glow: Wait. Discord was Grogar? Like, the whole time? Should we follow him?
Queen Chrysalis: Without magic, he's no threat. Besides, we have plans.

Although the other two did not override her, she shut down a suggestion that would've prevented any of the heroes from having a heads-up regarding what was about to happen, thus showing lackluster risk mitigation.

When she beats Starlight...

Queen Chrysalis: Now I'll have all eternity to take my revenge on you!

Indefinitely torturing her is more apt in her eyes than simply ending it, always would be... and typical for Chrysalis, it came back to bite her later.

Cozy Glow: And now for your complete destruction! Won't that be fun?
Queen Chrysalis: Patience, Cozy. Destruction is so... permanent. We need to show the rest of Equestria that we've broken their heroes first. Besides, we should have fun with our guests.

...and she stopped Cozy from executing any of them, putting that off until later, because where's the fun in doing that, before tormenting any of them beforehand?

Lord Tirek: No! We should hunt down Twilight Sparkle. As long as she's out there, she's dangerous.
Queen Chrysalis: Is that big, strong minotaur that scared of one little pony? Relax. It's not like her friends are going anywhere.

(I'd hope that you're basically calling him "half a man," otherwise Ignorant Chryssie/script error lol)

...also she outright mocked Tirek (the most wise of the three, the one with his head screwed on the tightest, the one who seemed to actually somewhat care about the alliance, ironically, which was interesting) for being worried about Twilight still being out there.

You can also notice how Chrysalis didn't seem to have "take out Cadance" on her priority list at all throughout S9, which could have easily been a problem down the line, in another world (and Twilight had some decent foresight, in pointedly not putting all of her eggs in one basket on that one).

Cozy Glow: I'm not hunting anypony d-d-d-down in this weather! Can't we magically get rid of them and w-w-w-warm things up?
Queen Chrysalis: I don't think we should. This could work out quite well for me.
Lord Tirek: You mean us.
Queen Chrysalis: The harsh weather is the final blow to break the ponies' spirits. Once Equestria is a frozen wasteland, we'll use our magic to destroy those windy beasts. Ponies will be so grateful, they'll do whatever I want!
Lord Tirek: The windigos are ancient magic. It would be unwise to leave them unchecked. Best we deal with them now.
Queen Chrysalis: [snarls]

For one of the biggest nails in the coffin of "she really hasn't learned a damn thing about underestimating others," Chrysalis, in all of her wisdom, seems to think that one, ponies, even as stupid as they can be, would generally, wholeheartedly buy something like "I saved you from the Windigos out of the goodness of my heart... please love me, I'm your hero and ruler now," and two, that letting Windigos reach the height of their power is even remotely a good idea before fighting them, yet another case of her power and ego getting to her head.

...And in the end, unlike Tirek and Cozy Glow, who seemed more appropriately scared, considering, Chrysalis... still thought that waving her proverbial dick around wasn't suicidal, that they'd let them pull a "To Where and Back Again," and run off after her promise to try, try, try again, after she'd gotten through with helping blow up the castle, declare she was looking to torture them before their demises, and threatening to rip a child's wings off in front of his loved ones, thus incinerating any bridge she didn't already burn with the heroes, if she didn't already in S6. At that point, I'm not even sure Twilight could forgive her, for how viscerally personal it got.

And yet, through it all, she just never gives up, throughout everything. She is, for all of her faults and cruelty, admirably determined, by being stubborn in her mindset, never giving up. She subsists on and gains power from love, and yet is practically the embodiment of hatred.

It's also interesting, and directly intertwined with her general personality, to note that Chrysalis generally eschews subterfuge in favor of brute force, the moment she's in a position of power. It happened in S2, it kinda happened in S5, when her deception that was for show fell apart, she tried to have it happen in S8, and it happened in S9.


In the end, I can't help but feel that a lot of people just miss the point entirely for what she's supposed to be as a character (or with others, perhaps even most, they're under the impression that their take on what she "should be" is inherently "better"): a self-destructive monster that never truly learns from its mistakes (since that would imply she makes those), cannot really be reasoned with beyond a surface level, and at best, sees those it "cares about" as extensions of its ego, befitting of something as narcissistic as it.

Her race just couldn't move forward without shedding their Chrysalis. There'd realistically never be an ideal future with her involved, because optimistically, she'd be holding them back from what they could be, even if "sharing love" wasn't a thing, by being a narcissistic tyrant that uses their desperation for her own endlessly megalomaniacal ends, and pessimistically, she'd sooner or later get them (and herself) killed down the road, by making enemies she underestimated, which her track record for that one is just terrible.

(And even going off of the comics, isn't exactly immune to the above, like underestimating Twilight's abilities when they were both boosted in power by a comet, because her magical refinement was higher than hers, so she got more mileage out of it, leading to her defeat.)

Chrysalis appears to be the sheer embodiment of an old dog you can't teach new tricks. Her resistance to change was her downfall since she can never acknowledge to faults in herself. A pure narcissistic till the very end.

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very good analysis and I fully agree. Chrysalis is, and has always, been her own worst enemy, being the fault of her own failure and in the end, the only one she can blame is herself, even if she would never do that.

Agreed. This was a very interesting read to see a character analysis of Queen Chrysalis as a villain. Mind if I use this as a inspiration/reference if I bring her into a story?

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I think it says something that even Tirek was seemingly more open to change in some ways than she is, and that he's more pragmatic than she ever was. He knows how to butter you up into being an ally, he's not the type to take too many unnecessary risks (fighting Twilight, he had a backup plan, and he saw the Windigos plan as stupid) and he can be a reasonable partner, if he doesn't completely dislike you like he did Discord. Chrysalis was, in a lot of ways, the poison of that S9 alliance. I think it says something that Cozy Glow seemed to have a cooler head than she did, and was definitely a better actress, and yet she was still immature, basically a younger Tirek (she did try to backstab them though, lol).

Tirek's the one that seemed to have the general interests of the alliance in mind throughout everything, after it got going in Frenemies, if you think about it, ironically.

Lord Tirek: Take my hands.
[beat]
Lord Tirek: So we can all be part of the spell. Unless you'd prefer I take all the magic myself?

Lord Tirek: But taking it all would be madness! It's impossible for any other creature to control!

Lord Tirek: No! We should hunt down Twilight Sparkle. As long as she's out there, she's dangerous.

Lord Tirek: None of us can use the Alicorns' magic until we figure out how to handle that fool's ridiculous chaos magic!

Lord Tirek: He's lying. He won't tell us.

Lord Tirek: You mean us.

Lord Tirek: The windigos are ancient magic. It would be unwise to leave them unchecked. Best we deal with them now.

There's also how he didn't really try to take the magic of the defeated Mane 5 or the Princesses, when there wouldn't have been much the other two could do to stop him (granted, there was still the conundrum of "Discord's magic" with the Princesses, but still), which could be seen as a magnanimous move on his part, not powering himself even further beyond them, avoiding further tensions.

Meanwhile, Chrysalis was going full-blown "they'll be grateful to me if I do this."

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...considering I pretty much based this analysis off of the show (to the point that most of it actually factored into the plot), what's in canon, I couldn't stop you if I wanted to (which I don't want to), lol.

Go right ahead and take whatever inspiration you can find from this, if applicable.

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Fantastic analysis. Great character break down.

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Excellent analysis and breakdown of Chrysalis throughout the series. I really enjoyed reading it. :ajsmug:

(Especially nice to see the takedown of the whole "Chryssi wants to feed her hive!" crap. :facehoof:)

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Nice take, completely agree. Chrysalis is obsessed with filling the void in her heart by taking things from others. She's kind of the perfect villain for the show, since the mane six are all about helping others find peace and happiness, something Chrysalis can never achieve. I see her as the embodiment of the negative effects of pride and jealousy.

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From my perspective that may correlate with your argument, it feels as though Chrysalis was a creature that was infinitely stuck with old traditions. For her to be the way she is, she had to learn them from her predecessor(s). Perhaps she viewed them as the ideal leader of changeling and full-heartedly believed that if she follows the mindset as them, then she would be as perfect as they were. I know that may be a long shot since there is no confirmation of this theory, but perhaps her lack of questioning those traditions is was the cornerstone of her lack of growth. In that way, her fellow changelings outgrew her because they saw the flaws in their old ways that Chrysalis couldn't see (or accept).

In a sense, that would be a tragic end for her. Because that would entail that she was raised to lead in one way and not think of something of very own. She persisted to enforce old ways that were taught to her without a smidgen of doubt, a complete slave to her predecessor's wills instead of leading another way she can call her own as Twilight has done. However, this is all theoretical.

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I think something that's missing in this analysis is Chrysalis mental break or at least deterioration. She ended up alone in the woods talking to wood like if they were living beings (she even got defensive about it when Tirek pointed it out)
We didn't see this kind of breakdown when she lost in Canterlot but I think the loss of her hive, or even worse, the fact that her way of thinking was completely proven wrong, affected her more than just a hit of ego.
Someone even pointed out in a video about her possible reformation that what she may have truly despised in the changelings reformation was how weak they became, calling it a corruption even of what they were before.

And on a more personal note, I don't see the failure of her second invasion as fully in her fault. Yes, she was overconfident and boastful but at the end she had all of Starlight's team captured and was executing a sentence for a traitor.
As I mentioned before, if Chrysalis truly believe that sharing love was impossible, why would she suspect that Thorax would actually change after giving love?
It's also in my opinion that another of Chrysalis flaws is that she continuously lies to herself, calling herself queen even if she doesn't have a kingdom, the wood servants, even the scene you mention of why she didn't kill the six when she took their hair may be she just wasn't thinking in her desperation and when questioned she defaulted to the most obvious response.

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Ah... Chrysalis, one of the most interesting irredeemable villains out of the bunch. It's not just the fact that she's arguably the most sadistic villain in canon (although that's definitely a factor), her appealing voice, and the fact that she has style up the wazoo, part of it is also how, in the end, she's her own worst enemy, in a lot of ways, the dumbest smart villain (she is intelligent, but common sense lacking).

Really, you could argue that a villain with nigh-unlimited shapeshifting would have to be this dumb, not only to be defeated again and again but to be on the loose without driving all of Equestria to paranoia.

She does seem to embody that classic Pratchett quote - "if a man has you at his mercy, then hope like hell that man is an evil man. Because the evil like power, power over people, and they want to see you in fear. They want you to know you are going to die. So they'll talk. They'll gloat. They'll watch you squirm. They'll put off the murder like another man will put off a good cigar. So hope like hell your captor is an evil man. A good man will kill you with hardly a word."

When we get to The Mean 6, what some people see as a disappointing episode... I see as an excellent showcase of a metaphor regarding Chrysalis' character.

I was worried when I heard she and Tirek would be returning - but in the end, both were used rather well.

(Also noteworthy, how she didn't seem to really care about ruling over Changelings again, in particular)

One of my darker headcanons is that several changelings did remain loyal to her after the Great Change. The lucky ones were those who searched, but never found her - clinging to her ideals as they saw them, they were a thorn in Equestria's side for decades. Those who actually sought her out successfully... well, how could she ever trust them? Even their unreformed semblances could be lies. So she did the only thing that made sense to her - it's not like she cared much about changeling lives before, after all.

Now all this said, I don't think that reforming her is conceptually impossible - for a good example, I recommend RainbowDoubleDash's Trouble in Tiatarta. But I'm happy enough with her as an unstable spiral of villany.

JWR

Queen Chrysalis reminds me a lot of Azula from A:TLA in terms of how her pride and ego lead to her downfall and unraveling.

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Thanks for the praise guys, really.

(Especially nice to see the takedown of the whole "Chryssi wants to feed her hive!" crap. :facehoof:)

...I'll admit, a small part of the motivation for writing this was seeing this old post (to cover my bases: I do NOT condone necroing that thread, whatsoever), back from when they were going off of S2, and how people confused her as "not evil," because she's "doing it for the people," which of course would never erase the fact that even purely based off of S2 (which the very first reply called out), even if she does care about her people, she's too much of a sadist for her to ever remotely be a good person, even aside from her attacking a city.

Twilight Sparkle: Help! Help!
Princess Cadance: [laughing] It's no use. No one can hear you. And no one will ever think to look for you, either. Most ponies have forgotten that these caves even exist, which is why they are the ideal place to keep the ones who try to interfere with my plans.

Like... I'm not sure how you'd consider someone who'd take that much joy in taunting someone over being helpless remotely "good," especially when it happened right after faking them out by making them think they were possibly being forgiven, no less. It goes far beyond what "duty" could ever suffice, whether as an explanation, or justification.

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I don't think she'd necessarily have inherited her MO from any predecessor(s). She could've very well been an extreme outlier, a maverick. This story would be one example of that (FanOfMostEverything's comment there summed it up well, regarding how it reflected her). After all, Tirek seems like he did not become evil because of King Vorak, or Queen Haydon, since he always hungered after power, according to that comic (Discord did namedrop the former, meaning he's canon to the show).

Sunset Shimmer was also by all appearances in canon a power-hungry prick, regardless of Celestia's influence, as part of her backstory, even if she got much better later on, and wasn't inherently as bad as Tirek.

Far better that I have a student who understands the meaning of self-sacrifice than one who only looks out for her own best interests.

- Celestia, The Crystal Empire, Part 2

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I think something that's missing in this analysis is Chrysalis mental break or at least deterioration. She ended up alone in the woods talking to wood like if they were living beings (she even got defensive about it when Tirek pointed it out)

Admittedly, yes, I didn't exactly focus on that, but even so, her morals didn't exactly shift, which seems to be the case when she seemed to have her marbles together again (well, for a given value since it's Chrysalis) in all of her screentime after Frenemies.

Someone even pointed out in a video about her possible reformation that what she may have truly despised in the changelings reformation was how weak they became, calling it a corruption even of what they were before.

And that's what Pharynx was for, to contrast Chrysalis. They decided he had a point about needing to be ready to defend themselves, and because he actually cared about the hive beyond any pretensions made (it's one thing to claim you're doing it for your subjects, for them to be strong, it's another for it to really be the case, even if you're lying to yourself too), and you can see in the finale that the Changelings used her own tactics against her, shapeshifting to confuse the three of them... and it's not like she seemed to have any pride in them being strong without her.

And on a more personal note, I don't see the failure of her second invasion as fully in her fault. Yes, she was overconfident and boastful but at the end she had all of Starlight's team captured and was executing a sentence for a traitor.

It's true, she was quite effective in the scheme, and nearly won, but the point is that it's part of a pattern of behavior where she's ultimately self-destructive because her plan had a hole in it. In this case, she wasn't enough of a stickler to detail to bother telling her minions about Starlight (even aside from "capture and replace her"), in much the same way she did badly in A Canterlot Wedding in impersonating Cadance, and whether it was kinda a lucky break from the heroes or not for them to win, she still indirectly had an oversight come back to bite her.

Even if Luna didn't straight-up tell Starlight about the Changelings being back, she was already suspicious that something was off, and it would've probably only gotten worse from there, at the very least regarding her minions in Ponyville, all because she didn't bother to consider how "Twilight's protege" could be an important thing to brief her minions on, or nip in the bud. I'd give it a week, tops for that deception to have fallen apart without anyone else to help shatter it, and whatever consequences followed.

If she'd overlook briefing anyone on such a simple detail like "this is Twilight's pupil's name, since she has one," is it a reliable presumption that Chrysalis wouldn't also be making the mistake of not telling anyone (or even bothering to do the research) that, for example, "Pinkie Pie has a twin sister named Marble Pie, and her other two sisters are Limestone and Maud?"

It's also in my opinion that another of Chrysalis flaws is that she continuously lies to herself, calling herself queen even if she doesn't have a kingdom, the wood servants, even the scene you mention of why she didn't kill the six when she took their hair may be she just wasn't thinking in her desperation and when questioned she defaulted to the most obvious response.

Chrysalis persisting in calling herself "Queen" despite being ousted is another aspect of her narcissistic personality. It's a personality type that does often involve lying to yourself, even if the reality just doesn't reflect it. For an example regarding a real dictator (even if I'm definitely not sure it was conclusively narcissism), Hitler was in denial for quite some time that the war was pretty much lost, and he'd fly into rages blaming others for how far things were going south, regardless of how much blame he'd have for it.

Chrysalis had at least months to consider "kill them in their sleep" if that were ever a palatable option in her mind, but she didn't.

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Really, you could argue that a villain with nigh-unlimited shapeshifting would have to be this dumb, not only to be defeated again and again but to be on the loose without driving all of Equestria to paranoia.

Especially when you have an army at your disposal.

She does seem to embody that classic Pratchett quote - "if a man has you at his mercy, then hope like hell that man is an evil man. Because the evil like power, power over people, and they want to see you in fear. They want you to know you are going to die. So they'll talk. They'll gloat. They'll watch you squirm. They'll put off the murder like another man will put off a good cigar. So hope like hell your captor is an evil man. A good man will kill you with hardly a word."

Quite apropos, I would say.

One of my darker headcanons is that several changelings did remain loyal to her after the Great Change. The lucky ones were those who searched, but never found her - clinging to her ideals as they saw them, they were a thorn in Equestria's side for decades. Those who actually sought her out successfully... well, how could she ever trust them? Even their unreformed semblances could be lies. So she did the only thing that made sense to her - it's not like she cared much about changeling lives before, after all.

...Huh, that would possibly check out, actually, her being paranoid to the point of offing those trying to be allies.

Interesting indeed.

Now all this said, I don't think that reforming her is conceptually impossible - for a good example, I recommend RainbowDoubleDash's Trouble in Tiatarta. But I'm happy enough with her as an unstable spiral of villany.

It's not what I'd call "conceptually impossible," yeah, but damn, it's not really the easiest thing to pull off, and have it feel true, at all (that is, without whitewashing her to some degree). She's a tyrannical control freak who's entrenched in her mindset from who knows how long she's been carrying out her MO, doubling down on enjoying it, never seeking peace, or coexistence. It's definitely not as easy as "ship her with X character" (I'd argue she'd be abusive, if anything, judging from how she wanted Shining Armor as... a possession, and her general controlling tendencies) I generally think she's generally more fun as a heartless monster who's out to ruin everyone, even if it kills her, because of the jarring nature of that type of character being in MLP.

No I do not love the groom
In my heart there is no room
But I still want him to be all mine

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"Chrysalis, you are the villain equivelant of an incel. God fucking help you dude."
-DWK

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Don't forget when she used changelings to take down a force field, that we are lead to believe Shining Armor was generating. You know the pony under her mind control and standing only a few feet away from her?

Other than to display her hive's power and determination what was the point of that, except to give the Main Six precious moments with which to escape?

Not to mention the question of where her changelings were hiding out and what kind of love they were getting, while she was nice and cushy in Canterlot, feeding of the love of who knows how many adoring ponies.

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and he can be a reasonable partner, if he doesn't completely dislike you like he did Discord.

I think it's worth noting that Tirek never came across as at being at odds with Discord, until Discord reveals that he failed to diverge the existence of another alicorn princess to Tirek. That is the first time where we see Tirek exhibit any kind of disgust and rage towards him.

And it's more than simply holding out on him. Discord's stunt allowed for the disappearance of the magic he craved and the creation of a powerful enemy, one he couldn't beat even with all his magic and Discord's flowing through him.

It makes sense why he wouldn't want a wild card like Discord, who had already proven he would strike out on his own if it suited him, around while he was dealing with someone that powerful. Taking his magic isn't just his way of lashing out for Discord's failure, at this point it is also pretty practical.

I think it says something that Cozy Glow seemed to have a cooler head than she did, and was definitely a better actress,

None of that really surprised me to be honest. Despite whatever we see in School Raze, you have to remember this is the girl who beat Twilight Sparkle as a Alicorn for popularity. Granted after what we see of Season 8 Twilight (particularly in School Daze, Marks for Effort and What Lies Beneath), it makes sense how that wouldn't be much of a contest, but it is still a important point to remember.

[students chattering]
"Citrine Spark": Cozy Glow baked our class cupcakes today!
"Berry Bliss": And she made all of us friendship bracelets!
"Patty Peppermint": She's the nicest pony I've ever met. I'm so glad she's headmare!
Sandbar: Uh, temporary headmare? Right, guys?
"Citrine Spark": Oh, oh, of course. But if Twilight takes her time coming back, I won't mind.
[students laughing]

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And her mental instability.

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Don't forget when she used changelings to take down a force field, that we are lead to believe Shining Armor was generating. You know the pony under her mind control and standing only a few feet away from her?

Other than to display her hive's power and determination what was the point of that, except to give the Main Six precious moments with which to escape?

Not to mention the question of where her changelings were hiding out and what kind of love they were getting, while she was nice and cushy in Canterlot, feeding of the love of who knows how many adoring ponies.

If she were a good leader who cared about the well-being of her subjects, it seems like she would've had dispelling the barrier herself as part of the plan, if she couldn't just compel Shining Armor to dispel it, herself (in which case her mind control is lackluster, could use more fine-tuning; wouldn't be that surprising, going by the bridesmaids). I mean, I'm pretty sure her magic in and of itself could've easily done enough damage to compromise that shield to begin with, especially by that point, where she'd gained a good amount of power from Shining Armor, but I guess something about her minions bodyslamming the barrier repeatedly was appealing to her, and for what? Optics? Showboating with your army, by putting that strain on them?

It's really no wonder how the Main Six kicked a lot of their asses at that point.

I think it's worth noting that Tirek never came across as at being at odds with Discord, until Discord reveals that he failed to diverge the existence of another alicorn princess to Tirek. That is the first time where we see Tirek exhibit any kind of disgust and rage towards him.

That is true, although Tirek did make a small slip up along the lines of "my will," versus "our will," like Chrysalis was doing in S9, right before he found out about Discord withholding information.

Overall though, Tirek did initially go to Equestria with his brother to attack it (even if he most certainly called the shots, and refused to back down), and he seems to have a few shreds of honor. When he said he'd let Twilight's friends go in exchange for the magic she had, he didn't go back on his word (and seemed to be offended that Twilight asked for Discord to be released, after he'd betrayed them, so it may very well have been that he joined him in the first place, going from the ponies' side), and when he borrowed Chrysalis' magic, after giving his word that he'd give it back, he did actually do so.

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Optics? Showboating with your army, by putting that strain on them?

Having them demonstrate their loyalty to her would be my guess.

I honestly think Tirek (especially in Season 9) wound up being more honorable and more sympathetic than Discord ever was, to the point where I actually wish they would've reformed him instead.

There's also something about this very cultured, but still obviously very macho Centaur being forced to cohabit with the Main Six that brings a smile to my face.

I still think out of all three of them he'd proberbly be the easiest to reform if you could find a substitute for the life force he feeds on, followed by Cozy, who's more or less basically Discord if he was a regular Pegasus filly obsessed with "Power", and Chrysalis who's all the things you've pointed out before.

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I still think out of all three of them he'd proberbly be the easiest to reform if you could find a substitute for the life force he feeds on, followed by Cozy, who's more or less basically Discord if he was a regular Pegasus filly obsessed with "Power", and Chrysalis who's all the things you've pointed out before.

I'd almost argue the same, basically. They're all kinda murder-happy, or at the very least don't have a problem with it (what were Tirek's intentions for blasting the area in S5, exactly? The pessimistic answer... isn't flattering), but Tirek and to a lesser extent Cozy (possibly in part due to her immaturity/young age, she really, really likes backstabbing, and doesn't seem to really respond to kindness, unlike Discord) are the ones I'd put a shred of stock in possibly being able to be reasoned with, give up if they'd realize they'd just never win, even if it's likely not going to be a true about face, and you'd quite probably have to keep your eye on them for the rest of their lives.

In the end, you could probably work with fear and/or the disillusionment of failure more than you can the general stubborn, single-minded hatred and rage that Chrysalis has.

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In the end, you could probably work with fear and/or the disillusionment of failure more than you can the general stubborn, single-minded hatred and rage that Chrysalis has.

No argument here. Honestly I think under all that anger there's also a sense of entitlement which prohibits her from realizing her mistakes. I think that even if she had physically reformed (unless she pulled a Sunset) she could still have issues with wanting to rule over others.

I don't think that would've necessarily changed, even if she did gain the capacity to feel love. I honestly think Chrysalis could proberbly justify uniting everyone under her rule as a act of love. And with mind control magic backed by a undiminished supply of love? She would have the skills to make that happen.

They're all kinda murder-happy, or at the very least don't have a problem with it (what were Tirek's intentions for blasting the area in S5, exactly?

Honestly I think he was proberbly trying to destroy Tartarus (it is under the Everfree after all), but I won't argue that he's pre-disposed to destruction (he does still blows up the library after all).

I don't think Cozy is interested in suffering or destruction as much as she is interested in wining and being made to feel superior. She doesn't go after the Main Six with the intent to destroy them until she is attacked and nearly set on fire by them after all, and earlier language she uses indicates she see Tartrures as a way to keep them out of her way as opposed to anything more sadistic.

Cozy (possibly in part due to her immaturity/young age, she really, really likes backstabbing, and doesn't seem to really respond to kindness, unlike Discord)

I grant you that she would be a tough case to handle but so far, (or all her love of backstabbing, her use of it as a tool seems to be mostly practical. In addition I think most people forget just how hard it was to reach Discord with Kindness. Fluttershy had to go through a lot to get him on her side, and it almost didn't come to fruition at all.

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So this Changeling can't change?

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Not necessarily. All that needs to happen is for a scenario to occur where she has to confront her flaws. Losing her entire hive to the ponies did give her the epiphany, so there has to be another approach.

The video above comes very close to creating the perfect scenario for Chrysalis to change. Perhaps the only creature that is capable of changing Chrysalis, is another changeling. And not just any changeling, it had to be one that was once a zealot of Chrysalis's methods, Pharynx.

Chrysalis is the Queen.

That's where the basis of her personality and characterization lies. She is the Evil Queen that has appeared in every folk tale and in every disney movie. Of course she believes everything she claims to be true, even if she just got herself powered up by the very source she mocks; the Queen is always right. Of course the changelings have no right to change; She's the Queen and only she can make the decision. Of course there is only one way for the changelings to live; the Queen can think of no other, so that is the only way.

But also, this is how her petiness and vengefulness comes from: she will have you poisoned for being prettier; have you slumber for eternity for not inviting her to a dance; have you sentenced and beheaded because you were standing there. The Queen is always right, always wise, must always be obeyed, and those who don't must be punished in the most cruel of ways.

It's the reason why it would be so superbly difficult to redeem or change Chrysalis in any way. You can't have her confront her flaws or realize she is wrong. She has no flaws. She is the Queen, and queens have no flaws. She can't realize her issues with the help of others. Who are those peasants to teach a Queen anything? The world is divided into three parts. The Queen, her subjects, and the rest. And only one part ever matters.

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It's the reason why it would be so superbly difficult to redeem or change Chrysalis in any way. You can't have her confront her flaws or realize she is wrong. She has no flaws. She is the Queen, and queens have no flaws. She can't realize her issues with the help of others. Who are those peasants to teach a Queen anything? The world is divided into three parts. The Queen, her subjects, and the rest. And only one part ever matters.

Queen Chrysalis: You know nothing of the changelings or what it takes to be their queen! I decide what is best for my subjects, not some mewling grub!

Beautifully written. She's an excellent case of a tyrant falling under Neutral Evil, on a related note.

In a way, it's kind of fitting thematically, how Princess Twilight, or anyone associated with her, failed to reach her. She's a Queen, so she's obviously above the whole lot of them, and what they believe in.

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Queen Chrysalis: You know nothing of the changelings or what it takes to be their queen! I decide what is best for my subjects, not some mewling grub!

Man, I haven't even watched that episode. I was certain I got close but I didn't expect THAT close. :rainbowlaugh:

She's a Queen, so she's obviously above the whole lot of them, and what they believe in.

Pretty much nailed there. In a way, she is probably the best direct antagonist for any of the princesses (well, Celestia as an antithesis to her goodness, Cadance as an antithesis to love, and Twilight as an antithesis to learning, at least. No idea for Luna*), especially when you consider the meta reason of why Celestia, as an example, is a princess and not a queen; because Hasbro wanted to avoid the implications of the Evil Queen trope.

*Okay, got it. She's an antithesis to Luna as a Royal who believed she deserved adoration, respect, and power, and demands it. Luna stopped demanding it, Chrysalis continues.

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