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I was wondering if it's a faux pas to use an image of a game board, or make one out of text in a story.

I have a pair of characters literally play chess in the middle of a dialogue to kind of show where they're at mentally with each other, but at the moment it reads kind of like a spreadsheet of moves and is a little difficult to follow if you aren't very familiar with the game.

Any thoughts?

6728231
In my opinion, it's usually best to make sure that images are not strictly necessary to follow the story.

6728231
I'd say that in general, visuals can really enhance a story's atmosphere. See this story for example. However, in terms of what you suggest, I'd be against including any sort of scheme as you suggest--it might break up the dialogue quite awfully and hamper the pacing of the scene. Also, I think you don't need to describe the moves inbetween the lines of dialogue in a way that only a chess masters would understand, nor do you have to mention all the moves, now do you?

6728231
I am wholeheartedly against visuals in a story. I've seen it used successfully once. Only once.

Chess is not a simple game, nor is it easy to describe in story form. My recommendation would be to make the whole game vague. Stating the moves on occasion is fine, but all you really need for the reader to get the gist is to say that pieces moved and some pieces were taken. We don't need to know that the Knight specifically moved to D3, we just need to know the Knight is now threatening to put the King in check next move. It's not necessary to know that the Pawn is now on A6, we just need to know it's now blocking the Rook's potential escape. The last thing you need is to go using technical jargon and citing board coordinates.

When it comes to something like a board game, it's best to rely on reader knowledge and let them form their own image of the game. It'll be easier to read and get all the important points across.

6728240
I suppose I want to keep the moves there because they serve two purposes; where the narrating character's train of though goes as the game and the conversation progresses side by side, and show how his opponent makes calculated, aggressive moves that display his nature and his character without really saying anything. They're talking to each other, but what they're really communicating through is the game.

6728254

Just let the readers imagination do most of the work.

6728231 It's not about the actual moves. It's about how they are played.

HapHazred
Group Admin

6728231 I've gotten very grumpy at images being used in stories on FimFic in the past, as they're often very poorly formatted. Recently I've begun work on a small personal project off-site, however, where I'm trying to combine visual and text in an almost picture-book come visual novel way, called Mermen V Wolves. Part of that aims to use top-down images similar to what you might see in an online D&D game.

Part of the reason why I dislike images on FimFic is because people don't tend to consider how the images work alongside the text. In MvW, I try to mix up having the images to the left of the text, or behind the text, or scrolling with the text, etc., whereas the image embeds used here don't tend to play around with that kind of stuff. In the past I've pretty strongly echoed PaulAsran's statements for this reason; not to mention this kind of thing plays havoc with phone users.

In a story without images, you can circumvent this by describing the broader strategies of the game, without going into the move-by-move play. This is quite straightforward and typically what I would do, only highlighting certain moves if they were particularly noteworthy. This is similar to how I would describe a fight: instead of a blow-by-blow narration, I would only highlight the aspects that actually decide the fight, or that are worth telling from a character perspective. So that's an alternative, at least.

In short, I don't really have a problem with using images in stories, but I do have a problem with using them badly, and it's a much trickier thing to do than people assume (I'm still working on stuff on my end, even with the added benefits of being able to completely control the css and formatting of the site, which should indicate how delicate the balance can be). If you want to include images, at the very least get a second editor who has a different screen dimension to yours and try to see how well the story looks before publishing. You'll want to play with image dimensions as well, and I'm frankly not sure to what degree you can control that stuff on fimfic, as I've not investigated it that deeply.

6728254
I think I know what you are going for, but what I wanted to say is that you don't need to show the whole game. Just let character number one say something agressive, followed by, let's say, taking one of the opponents pieces. Then the second character reacts both in dialogue and the game, but you don't necesarilly have to show them making the very next move. Just the next significant one.

Kind of like in this video (not the highest quality, but hopefully enough to get the point across):

6728231 While I have nothing against images in stories, I think it is important to be able to also describe whatever the image is supposed to represent in the story. Think of it this way, if someone makes an audio recording of your story, can the describe the image (using words you have written in the story) without having to show the image.

Using visuals to go along with a chess-like game is ok, but distracting. After all, the physical game should not be the primary focus of the story, UNLESS it is the primary focus of the story (such as a chess tourney). Sherlock Holmes gets away with it due to the visual medium and clever camera tricks. After all, you're reading along and all of the sudden--

Right there, your brain goes from text translation to looking over a picture, then has to shift back into text mode. I had a dual-source idea in Twinkle Twinkle - Speaker to Dragons where I had the two characters playing no-board chess. Both characters thought they were smarter than each other, AND it sets up a second scene where Twinkle is being taken away by the Dragonlord. It's too long to put here, so I used it as a blog post.

6728231
There's only two reasons to include images in a story: graphic novels and if the story can stand on it's own without the images. Not trying to sound like I'm saying, "get gud" on this, but if you are struggling to tell the story without the pictures, then you need to improve your ability to tell a narrative without pictures or go full on comic book.

Pictures in a textual story are a nice supplement, but should never be required for the story to be readable and enjoyable.

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I can see what you're saying, but the idea here is that the play-by-play mirrors the conversation and the entire story to a degree. This meeting is a big plot point and sets the tone for how the next arc in the story goes.

Example:
(the first character to speak is playing black and also narrating in this chapter.)

“Really? It almost sounds like you're being targeted, but I can't think of anything in the last few years that would warrant that. I'm sure you haven't made any enemies recently.” I made sure to let the sarcasm drip from my voice. White knight's pawn to G5. Damn. Bah, putting it in front of the rook will only make things worse. I'm better off checking his remaining knight. Black king's knight to D5.

“It could be that. I doubt you know this, but some punk ass kid thought it would be fun to hijack one of my import ships and then he stole all the cargo. But... I left a present in there for him. From what I've heard about the harbor, I'd say he got all three of em...” White king to F1. Damn, he's trying to attack my weakened side. I need to get my king out of the way... All three of what? Is he talking about that Goose Fang guy? Why would... no, he already knew the boat was going to be stolen. Black king castles to C2.

“A present huh? What kind of present?” He looked at me and smiled. White queen's Rook to D1. You don't have anywhere for that to go! What are you doing with it? Speaking of nowhere to go, what do I do? Moving my more powerful pieces right now would more than likely prove fruitless if Applebloom has taught me anything about mid-game. Let's see... that knight's pawn hasn't been moved. Maybe I can clear a spot so I can push my chariots into action... Black knight's pawn to F5.

And then the story continues like this until the game is over, them talking between moves all the while.

Is that too much or does it make sense with just this bit? Would it help if a board were provided, or would that make the exchange worse by breaking it up too far?

6728231

My thoughts are "Don't get bogged down in unnecessary details." How important is the detail of each move of the game to the overall plot, character development, or story development? When you get to the point where you're going into these sorts of details, you're generally losing track of the story. What's important to the general context of a story is not the mechanics of any particular game, but the interaction between the players, and the thoughts and feelings the game evokes in them. Games in stories typically serve one of two purposes, to act as a microcosm of the greater conflicts going on between characters, or as a framing/plot device around which the story takes place. In neither case does an exhaustive play-by-play really serve to advance the story, and it's not really necessary for the readers to understand the mechanics of the game to understand the characters' relationship to it.

In the example you provided, you're getting a bit bogged down in the details of the game, and neither visuals nor mechanics are necessary to understanding the conflict between the characters, which should be the focus.

6728326
I like the idea, but it seems to me that there's too much focus on the game and not enough on the dialogue. I'd think it would strongly take away from the important aspects of the scene. The game isn't what's important in the long run, what they're discussing is.

Once again, I'd suggest getting rid of the specific moves. Instead of:

White queen's Rook to D1. You don't have anywhere for that to go! What are you doing with it? Speaking of nowhere to go, what do I do?

I'd go for something like:

What is he doing with that rook? It can't do anything there. Like the question. Damn, I don't know where to go with this.

Give the general idea and keep the game linked to the dialogue. Only true chess aficionados – and you're not going to have many – will appreciate anything more specific than this. To anyone else it's just white noise. The game can still mirror the scene/story perfectly fine without them.

6728326
I think you're taking the wrong approach. Even if you have the images up, even if it was a good idea to go as detailed on the match as you want, you'd still face one serious problem; the vast majority of readers would have no idea what to make of the chess game, won't be interested, or will simply consider who wins just on number of pawns left.

What you want to do is translate the game into actions and ideas that make sense to both levels (the game and the conversation) while being completely understood to the reader. Optimally, you want the reader to think at first that the character thinks on just game terms but then it hits that the game reflects the dialog as well.

So, what you would do is remove almost all technical movements and convert the game flow to tactical actions instead:

“Really? It almost sounds like you're being targeted, but I can't think of anything in the last few years that would warrant that. I'm sure you haven't made any enemies recently.” I made sure to let the sarcasm drip from my voice. He's forcing me to choose between facing his rook or his knight. I make I my choice, and set out to unsaddle his armored pawn.

“It could be that. I doubt you know this, but some punk ass kid thought it would be fun to hijack one of my import ships and then he stole all the cargo. But... I left a present in there for him. From what I've heard about the harbor, I'd say he got all three of em...” He's trying to attack my weakened side, probably trying to weasel a straight shot to my king from there. All three of what? Is he talking about that Goose Fang guy? Why would... no, he already knew the boat was going to be stolen.

“A present huh? What kind of present?” He looked at me and smiled. He's forcing me on the defensive, stealing the initiative from me over and over. He's setting up a forked choice for me again. Either protect my weak flank and save the king or see my vanguard destroyed. If Applebloom has taught me anything about mid-game is you don't want to play the game as your opponent expects to. I need to counter, and with that in mind my knight charges forward.

6728375
I get what you mean, but I understand what you swapped it to even less than the game in text.
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I'll have to go through and see how it flows without the moves. Based on these responses, I'll need to find some kind of middle ground of what a move is and what it does to the game state.

I did a scene very much like what you are describing. The important bits are the foreshadowing and the conversation, so the game itself is lightly described. It may be a bit long for a demonstration... (scene is in part 6 of this fic)

The pawn in white advances across the field, and strikes down the black knight. Eclipse cringes as his valiant soldier falls and is removed from action.

“Your move.” Rose Given smirks. Now the unicorn sighs as he moves his own pawn in to remove Rose’s. “A pawn for a knight, not a good a good trade.” A few days after they returned from the north, Eclipse met Rose in a relaxing public park, and finally got his chess match with her.

“It was that or let your queen take my other rook.” Eclipse surveys the board one more time as Rose moves another pawn. Their game has not gone his way. “Aside from beating nobles at chess, what are your interests? Surely there is more to you than duty.”

“Take my bishop, and I’ll tell you.” She slides the aforementioned piece to a powerful, but vulnerable location, where it threatens and is itself threatened. Eclipse almost leaps at the chance, but then looks again at the board. He could take the bishop with either his other knight or a bishop of his own, but both would leave an opening for her to move to an even more advantageous position with another piece.

“So tempting. I think I’ll have to ask again some other time.” Instead, he slips his queen to a location formerly threatened by said bishop, causing Rose’s eyes to narrow.

“Not as willing to take risks as I expected. Interesting.” They each take several turns moving pieces about the board. She is swift and sure with her moves, obviously used to thinking several turns ahead and already planning for them. This leaves Eclipse always on the defensive, trying to maintain his few powerful pieces without expending them needlessly. It isn’t long before it’s quite clear which of them has the clear advantage. All of Rose’s remaining power pieces are in dominant positions, making it difficult to move without losing something important. She keeps up the pressure by relentlessly advancing pawns across the board.

“This does not bode well for me.” Yet again Eclipse takes stock of the situation.

“I do believe you’ve lost.” Rose taps the table.

“It sure looks hopeless. But perhaps…” The unicorn moves his queen, taking what seems to be an innocuous pawn. “Hope can be found even in the fog of despair.” For the first time, Rose has to pause and examine the board. “Check. I’m surprised you didn’t see that.” Rose shifts her king out of the way, revealing her queen behind it, which he promptly removes. What follows is a veritable slaughter as they rapidly trade pieces, placing either king in check with nearly every move. When all is done, both sides are nearly crippled. Nearly.

“Checkmate.” Rose smiles again as Eclipse futilely searches for a way out. One hoof reaches out and tips the black king over.

6728231
I would advise against ASCII art, because it's highly dependent on font style, font size and screen size. A reader's settings could very well turn your gameboard into pure gibberish.

Images are better, but I would advise against that as well.

I, personally, dislike reading stories on the site. It's just a huge strain on my eyes. Which is why, I'm glad Fimfiction allows me to download an epub format, which I can load onto my e-ink reader. However, my e-reader does not load images if the image isn't embedded into the file. Guess what? Images in Fimfiction stories are not embedded into the epub file. I've cracked open the code of these files to check. What the epub does is link to an online location.

I'm never going to see your images, so if your story is highly dependent on them, then it is effectively unreadable.

6728231
One move. One Out

That's why i never added a Chess scene

6728231
I wrote and drew a Choose-your-own-adventure story that was a single long conversation between you (as Sunset Shimmer) and Adagio.

I figured since so much of face-to-face communication is accomplished via expressions and nonverbal cues I should have a constantly changing picture of Adagio's face as she reacted to every choice the reader made of what to say to her.

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