Okay, first and foremost, let me declare what I am not asking: I am not asking how Starlight Glimmer successfully equalized everyone in Equestria in this given scenario. That's a subject for another time.

Rather, what I'm interested in is possible ways that an Equestria where Starlight Glimmer successfully equalized everypony all the way up to the princesses could continue to function without descending into anarchy. Note that when I say "function", I mean that, while it may not resemble the Equestria we've come to know in the series, ponies can still grow up, live, etc...

The reason I ask this is because, after giving it quite a bit of thought, I cannot see any form of Equestria under Starlight Glimmer's dubious "rule" successfully functioning in the long term due to outside influences that would rapidly overwhelm any equalized ponies. The reason for this, in my opinion, is that Equestria is particularly dependent upon its exceptional individuals to maintain harmony and defend it, and without them, it's more or less screwed.

As an example of this, I'll bring in my favorite MLP villain as an example: Lord Tirek. His entire ability revolves around stealing the magic of ponies and, while it appears much ponies innate magic is gone when they're equalized, they still have some he could steal. If he escaped into an Equestria where everyone was equalized, even if he was only able to attain 1/2 the power he did in canon, he'd still overwhelm anything short of a fully trained army (I'm assuming even Starlight could understand the need for individuals better trained in combat than other ponies and thus not quite so "equal" in a situation like this), and even then I'd place bets on Tirek. And, for anyone thinking Starlight might be able to defeat him-no. Twilight with four alicorn's worth of magic in her (including her own) could barely fight him at full power to a stalemate, and I really doubt Starlight approaches the power required to fight him at even half his strength. Furthermore, her whole trump card-stealing cutie marks and de-powering otherwise powerful ponies-probably wouldn't hold considering Tirek doesn't have one and his magic seems to be different from Equestrian magic.

This trend easily continues with virtually every major villain the series has produced: Sombra would have likely bypassed any resistance and just taken the Crystal Heart which, if the alternate timeline is anything to go by, doesn't end well; Queen Chrysalis and her changelings would arguably thrive under these conditions considering deception is their entire forte and they could use everyone being "similar" to their advantage,and this is not even getting started on other potential villains that might turn their eye on Equestria.

As a closed system-by which I mean Equestria is closed off from outside threats (hypothetically as a a continental shield powered by the collective magic of all the taken cutie marks), then I'd say it might be able to function as a society, but radical changes would have to occur that I, quite frankly, don't really know where to begin with.

Still, I'm just curious if anyone else has a better idea of how Equestria could function in the long term under Starlight Glimmer's dream of "equality", if it can at all.

5041172 With the spell dampening one's ability to do their talent, and possibly altering their personality slightly, then Celestia and Luna might have trouble raising the celestial bodies

5041172

As a closed system-by which I mean Equestria is closed off from outside threats (hypothetically as a a continental shield powered by the collective magic of all the taken cutie marks), then I'd say it might be able to function as a society, but radical changes would have to occur that I, quite frankly, don't really know where to begin with.

I'd have to disagree. Starlight's village was barely functioning on its own; expanding her operation to the whole of Equestria would be a disaster on an economic scale long before invaders could take advantage of it. No Pegasi would be good at controlling the weather; no Earth Ponies would be good at growing food. They'd have no engineers capable of running the trains, no doctors capable of helping the ill, nobody good at repairing broken tools or building sturdy houses. The society would collapse completely.
And that's not even considering what would happen if the spell incorporated a disabled individual, since it seems to put everyone at the lowest common denominator.

5041172

In any country that wanted a society like Glimmer's, they didn't brainwash them to the point of having no emotion.

Ideology can be a strong motivator. It can let you overcome impossible odds. Russia should have died in WWII. Instead, their people believed so dearly in their leader that instead of just bowing down to the obviously superior and stronger force (Nazi Germany) they fell back and kept baiting the Germans. All to buy time for Russia's winter to decimate the Germans.

Italy did not completely fall into Allied hands until 1944 (or '45, the proper year escapes me, but it was definitely one of these years.) Instead the Germans believed so dearly in what they were doing, they fiercely and bravely fought back and held the line against the Allies. All because they truly believed in Hitler.

So, what would have happened once another nation saw this weakness? The gryphons don't have cutiemarks and Equestria is full of natural resources. Same as the minotaurs.

We have no idea just how strong Glimmer's mind control was, but I'm willing to bet they'd surrender to a massive display of force. Perhaps, especially, if Glimmer is killed.

But lets say that both the Princesses die. We'll assume that their sun and moon are able to move on their own. We'll assume Twi either takes control of Equestria as the crown or some sort of other leadership.

The ponies now have a figure who they rally around of their own free will. Instead of forcing them to listen to the most powerful person in the pack, they listen to her because she says ideas and beliefs they can rally behind.

"Heil Hitler!" was an idea that Germans rallied around. Hitler represented Germany to them. They had the utmost belief and trust placed in him.

"For the Motherland!" is what the Russians rallied around. They believed in the idea of one for all and all for one. These ideas are what inspired these men, Soviets and Nazis, to stand against overwhelming odds and it is what inspired them to refuse to give their country up despite the odds. The Nazis should have blitzed through Russia and the Allies should have crushed any resistance in Italy.

But what do Shimmer's Glimmer's people have to rally around? The strongest of them all. Shimmer Glimmer. And what happens when someone who's stronger comes along?

Shimmer's Glimmer's society falls.

5041172

every major villain the series has produced

And who are these two? Sliced bread?
In answer to your question...no. Starlight's pseudo-communism could never function on a national level. The only reason Our Town functioned at all was because it was basically a cult. Besides, with Celestia and Luna (somehow) equalised, the sun and moon would remain stationary. Bingo, apocalypse.

equalization is basically communism this form ideology would definitely fall apart in a decade or two. one. equestria is very prospers and the ponies are very comfortable the way they live, so major change in government would lead to anarchy. two. Celestia and Luna have great influence amongst
their subjects and the ponies obey their word out of love and respect. three. citizens of equestria would fear change so they would do radical things to revert the harmony it is currently in.

we dont know much about the politics of equestria but i think this would be a likely scenario.

5041208

All to buy time for Russia's winter to decimate the Germans.

It's how Napolean was defeated in Russia as well, by winter.

Italy did not completely fall into Allied hands until 1944 (or '45, the proper year escapes me, but it was definitely one of these years.)

It was 1944.

5041220 Granted, you got me there. I had thought my point proven with the examples I had, but I really should give credit where credit is due. Actually, Discord-villainous or not- would have the time of his life screwing up their equality in every way imaginable up to and including sexual talent, and Nightmare Moon? She'd straight up murder Starlight in her sleep and assume control. Hell, Demon Sunset Shimmer would probably be enough to fuck everything up for Starlight, if for no other reason than her first inclination to solve her problems is to murder it with fire (Oh and she can brainwash everyone resulting in an even more equalized zombie like mindset) Anyway, for this I was just assuming the sun and moon were still going in their typical rhythm.

5041208 Can't say I'd be surprised by this conclusion. Even if everyone was "happy" (which they bloody well wouldn't be), Glimmer is the corner stone of this, and it'd probably all collapse without her.

5041207 While their abilities would certainly be decreased, I think-maybe-they could pull themselves together just enough to feed themselves, although it sure as hell wouldn't be luxurious. All that sugar and pastries and sweets ponies are addicted to? Gone. Say hello to our good hardy friend the potato. And hay I suppose. Dry hay.

5041246

It's how Napolean was defeated in Russia as well, by winter.

Of course. It's pretty much how Russia wins all of their wars. But I didn't know whether or not I should mention the Tsar eras, as Shimmer Glimmer reminds me much more of Stalin then she does Tsar Alexander I.

It was 1944.

Ah, thank you very much.

5041250 *Glimmer, not Shimmer.

5041252

Well, fuck, now I need to go back and fix that mistake, thanks again.

5041256 No problem.

Though it did have me stop for a second and try to picture Shimmer as Stalin, which was...interesting.

5041259

These were the only Stalin/Shimmer pics I could find ;_;

https://derpicdn.net/img/2014/5/15/627233/full.png

https://derpicdn.net/img/2014/5/15/627092/thumb.jpg

Sorry, Derpibooru's being stupid on my computer. I can't embed the pics or go to their main site, either.

5041172 I don't even think that any villain would even have time to conquer an equalised Equestrian. With Starlight taking away all cutie marks she is also taking away ponies connections to how they live fundamentally such as pegasi with weather magic and earth ponies with earth magic. This would mean to no control over the weather for pegasi lead to either to no clouds in the sky or wild and unpredictable weather (such as Everfree forest weather) also with no earth magic would lead to almost all of Equestria's food source of crops and farmland to be become completely stagnant.

Think back to how 'Our Town' looked when we first saw it in episode 1 of season 5. It was a barren wasteland. I mean seriously how our ponies suppose to survive in those kinds of conditions? Simply put they just can't. Compared with the rest of Equestria which is thriving, (even Dodge Junction and Appleoose had huge farms to support them, which again would be spoilt under an equalized Equestria) 'Our Town' looked like it had barely enough food just to feed itself and a equalized Equestria would not have enough food to feed everypony.

Also how would ponies be able to defend themselves from monster such as hydras, ursa majors or cragodiles. Again they just wouldn't be able to. Hay, they would be able to flee. Look back to how depowered the Mane 6 were when there cutie marks were taken. They couldn't run and Rainbow could barely fly. Equestria would probably not even be able to call on friendly countries to come to its aid. Assuming on Griffinstone the Griffin Empire is already in shambles, any Zebra that came to help would have their cutie marks taken away by Starlight as well.

But hay that's how I see it. Any thoughts?

Ultimately, Starlight is going to have to turn to technology/magic as a solution. The key virtue of a machine is that, unlike people, it operates in a consistent manner. Placing ponies in positions of power allows them to abuse that power. I see Starlight's regime turning sooner or later into something like Sombra's with mind control helmets or maybe golems. There might be geases used to enforce laws rather than a police and judiciary.

Alternatively - provided she can get over her distaste of cutie marks - she might make use of her vault. Instead of belonging to individuals, the marks are given and removed for certain tasks. If some mining is needed, she grabs some number of random ponies, slaps pickaxes on their flanks, and sets them to work. This could even be propagandized as more efficient. The same mark might be swapped out at the end of every shift; ponies need to rest, but talents do not.

Assuming, of course, that Starlight stays in control of her movement. If Equality, as a concept, gains traction than she may not be the only prophet vying to proclaim it. She didn't seem to have much for ideas beyond making everyone miserable and shaming them into pretending to be happy. Someone with a skill for magic, a desire for order, and a head for planning could take it all away from her.

5041208 Way to over simplify WW2 Kabar!

5041268

Alternatively - provided she can get over her distaste of cutie marks - she might make use of her vault. Instead of belonging to individuals, the marks are given and removed for certain tasks. If some mining is needed, she grabs some number of random ponies, slaps pickaxes on their flanks, and sets them to work. This could even be propagandized as more efficient. The same mark might be swapped out at the end of every shift; ponies need to rest, but talents do not.

That's actually a really cool idea.

5041274

Way to over simplify WW2 Kabar!

Oh, my apologies. Allow me to just restate the entire history of WWII in one FIMFiction post that was answering a question that asked about a Stalin-like allegory...

This short story of mine adequately describes my feelings on the matter: As One Falls.

5041268

Alternatively - provided she can get over her distaste of cutie marks - she might make use of her vault. Instead of belonging to individuals, the marks are given and removed for certain tasks. If some mining is needed, she grabs some number of random ponies, slaps pickaxes on their flanks, and sets them to work. This could even be propagandized as more efficient. The same mark might be swapped out at the end of every shift; ponies need to rest, but talents do not.

I don't think that will work. If you recall "Magical Mystery Cure", where all of Twilight's friends got their cutie marks messed up, you'll remember that none of them was able to adequately perform the tasks that the original cutie mark holder would do.

It could be argued that since they are Elements of Harmony, their case is unique (they can't just swap because it upsets their balance of harmony), but I still think that implementation of this idea is like having a system administrator repair some complex industrial machine: at best it will give no result, at worst - lead to a major accident.

5041284 Oh, allow me to correct myself:

Way to oversimplify the paradigms of the Soviet Union and The Third Reich in WW2. You might have actually had some room for that if you weren't so busy being incorrect about the Wehrmacht.

5041295

And how was I incorrect about the Wehrmacht?

You know, if you're going to correct someone, it helps if you you tell them why they were wrong instead of:

"YOU WERE WRONG ABOUT [vague subject]. I AM SMARTER THAN YOU!"

5041268
5041274

Alternatively - provided she can get over her distaste of cutie marks - she might make use of her vault. Instead of belonging to individuals, the marks are given and removed for certain tasks. If some mining is needed, she grabs some number of random ponies, slaps pickaxes on their flanks, and sets them to work. This could even be propagandized as more efficient. The same mark might be swapped out at the end of every shift; ponies need to rest, but talents do not.

That's actually a really cool idea.

Agreed, though I doubt canon Starlight had either the brains or the resources necessary to actually use it. However, the concept might be better used by a real villain, assuming they were able to get ahold of her de-marking spell and conquer Equestria. Sombra jumps to mind, although certain interpretations of Chrysalis and Nightmare Moon could also make use of it.
5041249

Discord-villainous or not- would have the time of his life screwing up their equality in every way imaginable up to and including sexual talent

What do you mean by 'sexual talent'? Rapey!Discord isn't canon (unless you squint really hard).

She'd straight up murder Starlight in her sleep

Nah, NMM would just waltz up and declare herself Equestria's new empress, after blasting Starlight to ash in full view of everypony.

5041297 Let's ignore the fact that nothing I point out will lead to some green text rather than god forbid a concession; but let's go ahead anyway.

Most German soldiers had more respect for their officers and generals than for the regime itself; and the German Field Marshal was involved in a plot to kill Hitler and openly disobeyed his orders. It's a hardly vague subject.

Also clandestine use of the downvote feature. No idea who's doing that.

5041301

Agreed, though I doubt canon Starlight had either the brains or the resources necessary to actually use it.

What makes you say that? Starlight wasn't that stupid; she had to her brain more than most of the other villains,

Nah, NMM would just waltz up and declare herself Equestria's new empress, after blasting Starlight to ash in full view of everypony.

There is however a rousing expediency with the way NMM does things.

5041172

Could a Fully Equalized Equestria Actually Function?

No. Nopony is actually good at anything (though Starlight will be until she equalises herself). Maybe ponies could squeak by, but that's about it, and the moment any environmental or magical or monster threat comes along there's going to be hell.

5041172
I think the biggest problem isn't that Starlight's magic removes ponies cutie mark and "special talent", it's that it seems to reduce everyone to the same level of incompetence in order to make them "equal". Nobody is allowed to be more skilled at something than anyone else, so everyone appears to be constrained to the lowest level of competence in the population. They can hardly make simple clothes, the baker can make only one thing and is horrible at that, etc. If you make that nation-wide, the consequences are going to be devastating. Realistically speaking, it'd be complete economic collapse and mass starvation. It'd reduce Equestria from a thriving nation to a thin scattering of subsistance farming (And even that might be optimistic).

Though that does leave open the question of what Starlight would do when it all starts crashing down. Or what the ponies of Equestria do, for that matter.

5041376

What makes you say that? Starlight wasn't that stupid; she had to her brain more than most of the other villains,

She was certainly capable on a technical level, if her magical ability is anything to judge on. She wasn't much of a deep or logical thinker, though. Our Town - Starlight's idea - was comically flawed both as a concept and in execution. Starlight devoted her life to starting that shitty cult in the middle of nowhere because her childhood friend moved away, and then after the literal Princess of Friendship shows up and tells her to knock it off, she runs off and then uses a freaking time travel spell that she randomly cooked up to try for 'revenge'.
Brilliant/10, would screw around with causality again.
Honestly, even freaking Sombra had a stronger motivation, and he doesn't even have a motivation.
Italics, man. They're fun.

5043592 Eh. Ideology is like that; she probably considered Equestria comically flawed in concept and execution.

And as far as cults go, it wasn't that culty; like , no apparent sexual assault or harems, no ritual killings or kool-aid; could be worse.

I like to infer it was more than the friend moving away and she had some bitterness about the whole fairness thing and the like; which is why I think she didn't respond well to The Princess of Friendship showing up. Because it wasn't like Twilight would just let Starlight do her thing and Starlight probably thought the worst, with the means of coercion bearing down and all.

I mean hey; Princess Luna also had a pretty stupid idea for revenge; at least Starlight's downfall wasn't hubris.

5041202
And with all the unicorns' magic dampened they wouldn't be able to pull it off either. It would destroy the world. Unless Discord decided to do it.

Also, an equalized Equestria would be fairly easy prey for the changelings.

5041172 If Starlight Glimmer overthrew and possibly execute the Alicorn Princesses and equalised all of Equestria, the entire nation would be a dysfunctional third world dump where nopony can do anything right. Without anyone controlling the sun and the moon, the pegasi won't be able to control the weather due to being nearly flightless, and the earth ponies being to weak to do farm work, Equestria would suffer a famine and out of control weather that would result in complete extinction of life in Equestria. I personally believe that the last future in the Season 5 finale with the barren wasteland where Princess Twilight Sparkle took Starlight Glimmer is the future where Starlight was successful in her original plan to equalise Equestria. Also Equestria would be vulnerable to invasion from all enemies from the Changelings to even the Diamond Dogs.

Not exactly on-topic, but what happened to all the people who thought the cutie marks were a form of enslavement? You get a pair of pinking shears on your butt and now you have to cut fabric until you drop dead. Is everyone now in agreement that having one's destiny locked in is better than free will to the point that the latter inevitably leads to immiseration if not extinction?

5043659
5045168
Why the heck would the Changelings want to invade an Equalized Equestria? That's like cockroaches scurrying into a house actively being fumigated because nobody is in there to keep them out. Our Town wasn't exactly brimming over with love and good cheer. Maybe they'd want to sneak into to steal the Crystal Heart out of storage, assuming it's actually useful to them.

I'm also envisioning the dark hilarity of the Griffons or Diamond Dogs invading Equalestria with the idea of looting the place. They sack some major city and scour it for valuables, only to discover that there's not a single thing worth stealing. Even the gems and gold have been Equalized into quartz and lead.

5045447
Changelings feed and grow stronger on love. It doesn't matter how messed up Equestria is, it doesn't matter if their crops are dying, or if their cities are in ruins. As long as there's ponies to feed off of it's worth invading and conquering. Besides, they can easily rebuild it in their image when their race is supercharged from feeding off of all of Equestria. As for the town not being full of cheer, a bit of changeling brainwashing can fix that.

5045447 Simple. Queen Chrysilis may want to raid Canterlot Castle to search for anything valuable and useful and possibly move there. Also with the Equestrian population being Starlight's incompetent and starving slaves, it would be very easy for Chrysilis to overthrow Starlight and take her slaves and make them into her own slaves so she can feed off them.

5045455 Exactly my point

5045591
That's a point, though it does highlight how wonky the whole Changeling thing is. I mean, they did just fine storming Canterlot even without any preexisting weakness. Heck, even with everyone being on guard. For the purposes of the Changelings taking over, it doesn't seem to matter terribly whether or not Equestria is vulnerable.

5045455
Is Changeling brainwashing a thing? Granted, we've seen Chrysalis do it, but then we've also seen Twilight do it. The only one we've seen use a creepy fall-in-love spell is Cadance. Or are they going to brew up that Love Poison in industrial quantities? Now that I think about, you have a good point.

5045725

That's a point, though it does highlight how wonky the whole Changeling thing is. I mean, they did just fine storming Canterlot even without any preexisting weakness. Heck, even with everyone being on guard. For the purposes of the Changelings taking over, it doesn't seem to matter terribly whether or not Equestria is vulnerable.

The way I figure it, it was a surprise attack by an enemy with unknown and unexpected capabilities, led off by a decapitating strike that took out the higher command structure and left the individual guard units without coordinated leadership. Without that, it becomes much harder for the guard to coordinate actions and support each other, and the full-on swarming attack makes it hard to consolidate. Despite the guards being on alert, I think the changelings had the better tactical situation.

Probably. Of course, the USSR would lose the cold war with the USZ.

5045725 The Changelings just want the entire Equestrian population to feed off from. Also it would not take much for Queen Chrysilis to brainwash the Equestrians because after a while living under Starlight's rule, the ponies would welcome the Changeling takeover if it means getting their cutie marks and their ability to dream back. They would be so happy that they would called Queen Chrysilis a liberator. From there the Changelings would feed of super charged love from the Equestrians.

5047653
That's a good point. Even the Nazis were greeted as liberators some of the places they went. I love it when villains accidentally stumble into the hero role.

5047962 It is a undeniable fact that Equestria would be better off under Queen Chrysilis than Starlight Glimmer

Queen Chrysalis's rule in my opinion, would resemble elements found in horror and UFO folklore. In the sense that a group of shapeshifters now rules over the government, abducting ponies to feed off then leaving them dazed and confused in the middle of nowhere. Any Ponies who catch on to the conspiracy are quickly derided as Conspiracy theorists, those that dive too deep are quickly singled out and eliminated.

Glimmers reign would just resemble North Korea or even Oceania. In which everyone is equal in their dedication to the glorious leader. The outside world are cannibal savages who have no honor, and as such there's a eternal war waged against our hated enemies the Zebras. Equestria was never at war with Griffonstone! Praise to Big Sister!

5048014
There's no way to know that since neither of them have actually ruled over Equestria as well as there being no agreed-upon standard for "better off". It's pure conjecture.

5049724 It would be for the best interests of the Changelings that the Equestrians are fed and happy enough to feed on. The Equestrians would be just living a miserable life with constant fear as they slowly starve to death under Starlight Glimmer's rule. Remember Queen Chrylisis's main concern to the welfare of her species while Starlight Glimmer is just a childish short sighted lunatic who wants to be worshipped at all costs.

5049790
It would also be for the best interests of Starlight to have a functioning country to run and that Chrysalis's very first public act was to unleash total panic and anarchy without so much as an attempt at diplomacy. We know pretty much zero about how Changelings work and even less about what Chrysalis's role and motivations are. I've seen many interpretations - and criticisms - of both of these characters and their potential plans. There's a lot of headcanon floating around not attached to much of anything.

Though I'm inclined to agree with you on Chrysalis vs. Starlight; the latter spent something like several years looking at the falling-apart houses and eating the technically-edible-but-completely-terrible food in her town without feeling the need to improve things. I also don't see her as someone who'd have the ability to take over Equestria. When Chrysalis wanted to conquer, she set up an elaborate plan and personally took on a dangerous undercover role. Starlight seemed more or less content to just stay home; the Mane Six had to come right to her doorstep before she did anything. If her movement ever started going anywhere, I'd expect someone slicker and more charismatic - like the Flim-Flam brothers or even Iron Will - to yoink it out from her impractical and overly-ideological hooves.

5048014 Now that's funny.

5049932 Well... It'd probably be America as described by a UFOlogist. Since the Changelings secretly rule the government (Reptillians), all the while abducting Ponies in secret to feed off their emotions before leaving them non the wiser (Greys).

5049990 That's a pretty good analogy.

5049992

I want to believe.

5049998

all the while abducting Ponies in secret to feed off their emotions before leaving them non the wiser

That reminds of Changeling Roun a lot.

I want to believe.

We all do.