Is it time to merge this group with the other TCB group? Not many people are still involved with TCB, and those few who are don't seem interested in continuing the TCB civil war.

To be clear: I'm not proposing we merge with "Alternative Conversion Bureau". I'm proposing we merge with the other group called "The Conversion Bureau".

The only way I, as the owner of this, the original, very first Conversion Bureau Group (group 22) would ever agree to such a proposal would be if all - and I mean absolutely all - of the Anti-Conversion-Bureau hate fiction and authors were removed and banned from the resultant, merged group - and that I remained moderator so I could not be arbitrarily stabbed in the back and shut out again.

The reason there are two groups at all are because of these two points. I was kicked down for political reasons, and those reasons were that the second Conversion Bureau group tried to 'make peace' with their sworn destroyers by letting them in and including their hate-stories, thinking that would 'appease' the Anti Bureau groups.

I objected to this on the grounds that capitulating with people sending literal death threats to my family members would never end their hate and attacks. It didn't those attacks, and that is why the entire genre died, and why the second group is utterly silent and dead.

I warned them that a group of people who openly stated that they wanted to destroy the Bureau genre of fiction forever actually meant what they said.

They didn't want to believe me, and now their group is dead, and their story archive is filled with terrible hate-fiction written by the very people who destroyed them.

I have a better idea. Have group 26 just fold, shutter, delete themselves, and go away. Duplication problem solved.

Because here, in the original Group 22, we have every single true Bureau story there is. We don't have a single hate-fic in our archive. The other Bureau isn't needed. There is nothing to 'merge' with. There is nothing of value there at all that is not already here. And there is no taint of the hate groups that ruined everything.

Why would this even be an issue for you?

How active is this group? Is other group active on FIMFic forum and how would that happen? Doesn't Windchaser need to come back? Took a quick look and it has 21 stories in the "Pending Approval Folder". Some since 2017. Also one group would have to delete itself and the members would have to rejoin. There would be bitching if anyone cared or notice. Unless Knightly and pals did some site magic which I don't see happening.

Don't see this merger happening.

I agree that it would be a nice to have a single group, since there being two was frankly confusing to me originally, not having been aware of the underlying reasons. And if Windchaser isn't around anymore to maintain it anyway, then it's yet another reason above and beyond Chatoyance's points it should be removed. And I don't think anyone is likely to agree in favor of there continuing to be two groups. But Griseus is right.. without Windchaser being around to actually delete the group, you'd need to get the site admins to do the deletion. So maybe that's the next step Solarfollow.. try contacting them and find out if they're willing to delete Windchaser's unmaintained group. Or even rename it to something else.

6863795

“and that I remained moderator”

You're a moderator here. I'd think the mods in both groups would stay mods.

“I objected to this on the grounds that capitulating with people sending literal death threats to my family members would never end their hate and attacks.”

If someone's sending death threats, he shouldn't have any place in any TCB (or ATCB) group.

“if all - and I mean absolutely all - of the Anti-Conversion-Bureau hate fiction and authors were removed and banned from the resultant, merged group”

Eh. Some of the ATCB fanfics are just low-quality dime-a-dozen parodies. But I've read some good ATCB fics. And frankly: I could see myself wiring both TCB and ATCB. Or a fanfic that burled the lines between the two.

“why the second group is utterly silent and dead.”

The other group seems about as active as this one.

6864090

You're a moderator here. I'd think the mods in both groups would stay mods.

I repeat, again, that I was a moderator in group 26, but they kicked me out, they kicked me to the curb, they stripped me of my moderator status purely because I argued against capitulating to the hate groups that wanted to destroy us. That is not going to happen again. Period.

If someone's sending death threats, he shouldn't have any place in any TCB (or ATCB) group.

There were several dozen individuals doing just that, and my identical argument to yours was ignored by the ACB and the moderators here both. I sent proof of both the death threats and the server attacks to the mods here, and they... asked the ACB to remove the word 'Anti'. That's it. That was all. And they objected to that much response.

The only thing that scared them enough to scour the site and remove the threats was the rumor that I had gone to the FBI about the threats. They vanished literally overnight after that, and the Anti's quieted down. But that was the only thing that worked.

Eh. Some of the ATCB fanfics are just low-quality dime-a-dozen parodies. But I've read some good ATCB fics. And frankly: I could see myself wiring both TCB and ATCB. Or a fanfic that burled the lines between the two.

I have checked out what the Anti's wrote, and universally, their hate fics "deconstructions" are badly written, poorly constructed and poorly plotted. They are terrible, because they were not written as literature, they were written reactively, purely as spite-fiction. Nobody can create anything worthwhile writing from reactive anger and spite. It just doesn't support real creativity. Not one of them came up with a decent parody.

Actual Bureau writers did some fantastic parodies. Why? The same reason that MST3K is good: you have to actually like something before you can properly parody it. The MST3K team actually like those crappy movies. Their comedy comes from a place of affection... and complete understanding. You cannot understand something you cannot bear to see or read. That is the secret of parody: you cannot truly hate anything you parody, because successful parody demands comprehending the subject enough to actually tell meaningful jokes about it.

The other group seems about as active as this one.

Perhaps you are right. I don't really care. Their capitulation to those who desired only to destroy the Bureau genre ruined the one thing I cared most about here. And they stabbed me in the back because I warned them of the danger.

They can shut down. That is the only reasonable way to solve the 'two groups' problem. They can close up their group, and move here - at least those that have not been permabanned, and who are not part of any hate group.

For those that stabbed me in the back, I would need a sincere and detailed apology. And they would never be mods here, not ever. Never again. That cost me a great deal of trust in others. A great deal. Those betrayals hurt me very deeply. More than I want to get into here.

This is the first and original Conversion Bureau Group. Group 22, the one that started it all. They came later, and they ruined the genre and helped it to die because they managed their group poorly. This is the group that never gave in, never betrayed anyone, never gave up and never hurt a single person. This is the group that never capitulated with a hateful mob of death-threat sending, server-attacking bastards. This is the group that matters and the one that counts, the group that stands by the Three Rules of the Conversion Bureau.

And that is all I have to say about that.

6864090
I was a moderator in this group while the shitstorm was happening. Every week and sometimes every day, we were getting bombarded by people who wanted us to die - hate in the forums, hate fics in the folders, puppet accounts downvoting our stories without even reading them. Hundreds of accounts were banned from TCB in an effort to stop them from harassing our members.

Thankfully that bullshit is over now. TCB may also be over, not because we gave up, but because there is nothing else to write. In other words, it's not over; it's complete. But I still care about Group 22 as being a beacon of quality, and what I can tell you is that long after all of us have moved on, people can come here and know that every story in this archive was written as a genuine act of love for My Little Pony and passion for the craft of writing as if the authors here were prepared to hold these stories up to the gods and cry, "Judge me by this!"

Chatoyance has already said this, but it deserves to be repeated a thousand times: for what the members of this group went through, for what these stories represent to present and future fans, Group 22 The Conversion Bureau shall remain as it is.

well, this thread (and whole world created by Chatoyance) resonates with my own views (and events leading to such views). I think for really understand some pessimism about humanity's ability to overcome our own current limitations one better try and change even small aspect of 'everyday wrongs'. If you attempt to correct even most agreed-about wrongs - you will find surprizingly hard resistance to _right_ actions. Today, humans blocked on few levels from realizing problems, acting on problems without creating some unwanted side effects, and keeping this 'bubble' growing, instead of becoming part of same problematic mainstream.

I don't think Chatoyance's universe is complete - there are many areas on timeline never explored. Like, what if anyone tried to stop events leading to Last Harvest? Because you probably know by now from reality - resistance to seemingly-rational and humane plan will be enormous. You (your protagonist) will be called all possible bad names, numbers (often non-obviously biased, so debiasing them will be epic work in itself) will be used against you, even if you have strong position and not-so-easy failable allies (big if!) - things will be not easy! And stopping one problems doesn't make whole world realize it must change priorities - there will be other projects, and they will learn (!) from your partial victory! Even if such tale probably not fitting strict definition of our subgenre (it may not even touch ponies and their world - only as dreams/thoughts, at this time..) - it might be useful addition related to thinking about how uneasy can be resistance to even most dangerous plans.

Or for example one can imagine sort of 'industrial drama' story revolving around earlier attempts at making synthetic food _for whole world_, on very short timeline.

Or one can try to let whole part about _only humans survived so far in any significant numbers from _all possible animals_ sink deep enough and write from perspective of human who just wake up to world where encountering dog at streets become as big event as meeting dolphin today! (not impossible, depending on location, but definitely not something most humans can do).

But those images require talent, and I don't have it.

ah, and additionally I wanted to say - I still think it will be completely possible to arrive at world where humans voluntary become ponies in bigger and bigger numbers - after all, nearly everyone want to live in world where you are not constantly stressed at some low-level by nearly anything. This hypothetical change in feelings alone will be enough driving force, if you want to write somewhat different story. Still, i think it makes sense in this Universe Celestia was shocked enough by scale of what humans did (or failed to prevent). So, recipe for different world (where crash is less ... crashy) seems to be simple - prevent biggest problems from developing, so they will not shock Celesta so badly, so she will have more time and less negative experience while implementing her world-changing magic .. I think this was Chatoyance's point - humans don't need bad things constantly terrorizing them for actually enjoying good things and progressing in social relations - so i think it will be normal to Celestia to think like this, too... Still, preventing extreme human inertia in thinking and 'business as usual' in both direct and metaphorical sense will be not small task ....

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"The only thing that scared them enough to scour the site and remove the threats was the rumor that I had gone to the FBI about the threats. They vanished literally overnight after that, and the Anti's quieted down. But that was the only thing that worked."

Considering the stuff people on this site are allowed to get away with, I can believe that!

Part of government's job, is to be a solution of last resort when the rest of society fails. If it takes government intervention (or the fear of it) to fix something like that, something has gone seriously wrong!

6866840

"...something has gone seriously wrong!"

That about sums it up. And while it did quiet down, it did not go away. They're still here, finding other things to write and other stories to poke and jab. And while I wouldn't say they're waiting, they're certainly lounging around the general area in case they get the chance to do more damage and get away with it.

..after having especially bad night I come to this: may be it will be more in 'pony spirit' and in spirit of this group to transform at least some of those anti- works? Of course, this also will be work in itself, may be i should try this first instead of just suggesting it .... Any not really long work to test my idea on? {I once run into some law draft concerning 'animal ownership'. It was big fun to edit it into something remotely coherent. Starting from basis 'friends are NOT for sale'}