I wanted to put someplace together where we could talk about where each of the Student Six are at the start of the season and where they should be by the end. I figure it could also help to establish their relationships with the rest of the Students and what the chief, or at least most obvious, opportunities for stories came from.

I'll start with Smolder since she's my favorite among the Students and the one that I think I have the best handle on.

SMOLDER

Personal Relationships:

Gallus – Smolder sees eye-to-eye with him more than most of the others, coming from societies that were decidedly unfriendly. They’ve had the most dramatic cases of culture shock. They enjoy snarking and giving each other (as well as others) the business. I also enjoy RDD’s interpretation from Tiatarta that as predators, they enjoy play-fighting and wrestling. Possible friction can come from the fact that Gallus is a bit slyer and sneakier, and probably just a bit more clever and better with word play, which can get under Smolder’s scales when he bests her.

Silverstream – Smolder is mostly used to Silverstream’s exuberance but can’t help but snark about it. I can see some potential issues with Smolder not really taking Silverstream too seriously at times, which can cause some problems down the line for the two of them.

Ocellus – Smolder probably feels protective towards the smallest, frailest (in her natural form) and cutest (in any form) member of their group. Since Ocellus knows her secret love of cute things, that forms an inseparable bond between them. They’re also opposites, with changelings being social creatures and dragons more solitary; Smolder being tough and Ocellus sensitive, etc. But unlike, say, Applejack and Rarity, this doesn’t lend itself to pissy Odd Couple-style quibbling. They compliment one another very well, though of course there’s room for disagreements between the two opposites, especially over school work and the like.

Yona – As the toughest and strongest of the Six, they’re probably pretty physical in terms of their interactions. I’m going to lean on RDD’s notion that Smolder, as a dragon, is slightly stronger than Yona but it leads to a lot of competition between them to establish who is the strongest. It’s also likely that Yona’s exuberance (like Silverstream’s) can sometimes annoy Smolder and her snarking on things Yona cares about can upset her.

Sandbar - …. I admit, I find it really hard to ‘get’ Sandbar and can use some help here.

STORIES

-her outspoken suspicion of Cozy Glow
-her secret love of cute things and the struggle to be more open about it
-her dragon biology (i.e. accidentally breathing fire at inopportune times, hoarding, etc.)
-her struggle with the more academic side of schoolwork (though this involves figuring out how the hell the curriculum works)
-the dragon’s being the source of information about Lavan and things revolving around that arc
-possibly dealing with her far longer-lifespan than the rest of her friends
-How she and Ocellus is obviously the best Ship
-Relationship with Spike and with her counterparts among the Elements of Harmony and Pillars of Equestria
-overcoming pony perceptions of dragons and vice versa

Anyone else care to chip in, about Smolder or about any of the others?

Sandbar - …. I admit, I find it really hard to ‘get’ Sandbar and can use some help here.

Sandbar - Smolder probably underestimates Sandbar a lot. He's a pony, and a relatively low-key one at that. He doesn't actively buck the stereotypes, so it's easy for her to fall into them. Which means when he does break them or do something extraordinary, it blindsides her. I can also see her just not getting the whole thing with Yona and him because seriously what?

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He is not a complex stallion.

Nah, I kid, and exploring what the two actually see in each other will be fun. In fact I might put together a dossier on Sandbar when I get home from work.

I LOVE Sandbar and I would love to help put together a dossier for him

On Sandbar and Smolder's relationship:

Initially I think Smolder might not "get" Sandbar, but after some time spent together I can see them getting along swimmingly, with Smolder using Sandbar as a kind of emotional rock because of how chill he is. I can see Smolder seeking Sandbar out to vent when she doesn't necessarily want any solutions to her problems, and his off-kilter, wholesome pony perspective making her laugh and leading her to understanding "conventional" friendship in a way that the others couldn't. Play fighting might be a thing, but I see a kind of older-younger sibling dynamic with that.

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Agree with both, thanks.

(Semillion, sounds like you've been reading "Where There's Smoke"! )

Notes

• She's Skystar's cousin. My worldbuilding instincts insist this means that her mother or father (whichever is Queen Novo's sibling) has a royal title in their own right (specifically, prince or princess), much as how Queen Elizabeth's younger sister was styled as Princess Margaret. It's quite likely that they would also have another, lower noble title; using Margaret again this would be earl/count (or countess). Silverstream doesn't necessarily have a title in her own right but as the older sibling would inherit that lower title, although not the title of princess.
• While she's a lot like Pinkie Pie, I see her as being a lot less random in her exuberance. She gets excited about things but she isn't likely to be completely disconnected the way Pinkie can be. She also has a better ability to be "calm", although it's not her normal state of affairs.
• Silverstream is also very tactile. She likes touching things and examining things. This translates to her talking to others; she likes it when she can drape a wing or arm over someone, hold claws or hooves, etc.
• More than anything else, Silverstream is an unabashed neomaniac. She loves new things and new experiences, and also seeks them out.
• She's already the tallest of the Student Six; I think we should exaggerate this just a bit so that she's "statuesque", notably taller than Yona. She should also be regarded as gorgeous, nearly to being a supermodel. Or at least a Disney princess.
• Best class is music (I may kind of want to play up the princess angle) and art. Worst class is math, as her active nature makes it hard for her to really focus on getting numbers right.
• Playing in to the endurance flier thing that was brought up in the Brainstorming thread, TVTropes points out that Silverstream is in the show (and thus probably in this) the member of the Student Six that flies the most. She tends to hover more often than the others, sort of like how Rainbow Dash flies as often as she stands or walks. This can be interpreted as, after a lifetime of swimming under the water, just feeling more "natural" to her.

Relationships

• Gallus: The two of them have an unusually close relationship for their conflicting personalities, partly grown out of their shared experience beneath the School of Friendship in "What Lies Beneath". Gallus is able to temper Silverstream's exuberance and calm her down better than others, who more often go for a "let her wear herself out" approach. Silverstream also thinks he gives the best hugs (granted all the Students think this). Gallus and Silverstream are probably the two who most enjoy flying around, Silverstream due to just finding three-dimensional movement more natural and Gallus due to his touch of claustrophobia. I also think they should have a degree of shared predatory interests in fishing.
• Ocellus: Ocellus reads a lot, which means she picks up all sorts of neat factoids. Silverstream loves to experience new things, but when she can't, hearing about them will at least wet her appetite. This helps form the basis of their relationship. Plus, Ocellus' shapeshifting and just being so different from the others is something that she inherently likes about Ocellus (again: neomaniac). She has an almost sisterly relationship with Ocellus, which can make her a bit protective of Ocellus, specifically concerned about her overworking herself (a la issue 84 of the comics).
• Smolder: Silverstream of course finds everything draconic about Smolder fascinating, and as Smolder is very proud of being a dragon she can count on Silverstream being a rapt audience. Smolder's a bit less keen on SIlverstream's "touchy" nature. As Trinary suggested, Smolder can sometimes find it hard to take SIlverstream seriously and also wonders is Silverstream herself takes anything seriously. On the other hand Silverstream is very appreciative of Smolder's sculpting and artistic talents.
• Sandbar: Silverstream and Sandbar both share a love of water and swimming, with Silverstream perhaps working on learning how to use her pearl shard to turn Sandbar into a seapony because he'd really love it. Silverstream takes the role of the expositor about undersea and beach life to a rapt Sandbar. Silverstream should also totally have met Sandbar's family and absolutely adore Coral. Less seriously if we want to entertain the idea that Sandbar might occasionally, ah, partake of certain questionable substances, I can see Silverstream as chillin' with him too. She's the sort who'd get extremely deep and philosophical when high.
• Yona: If Silverstream can't have a wing around Ocellus, then she likes to perch atop Yona. It's comfy up there. The two of them are also the most and second-most exuberant of the Students, and they can sort of feed off of each other in that respect, psyching each other up about things. Yona is probably the Student-6 that's the slowest to try or get on-board with something new (on the grounds of thinking that the Yak version of it is better), but Silverstream can usually explain and demonstrate the merits of a new thing enough to get Yona on-board.

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I can definitely approve of this.

I was also looking to give some thought here as to her particular characterization over the season, what stories could be told about her, and so on.

There was the idea that of all the Student Six, she'd be the most inclined to giving Cozy a second chance. There's also stories to be told about her reining in her more exuberant tendencies and thinking more before acting. We -could- do something with her royal station but I would want to keep that fresh and original rather than falling back on anything more well-trod.

Or maybe delving a bit into her psychology and just how scarring the Storm King affair was for her; why she almost always is flying and prefers her hippogriff form rather than seapony, how she views her mom's decision to stay seapony full-time and Terramar's desire to go back and forth, etc. There was also that bit about her in "Student Counsel" mentioning that "I totally respect my younger cousins' decisions to stay seaponies, but they've never been on dry land." Maybe it's just me, but when someone has to add that they "totally respect" someone's decision, it usually reflects that the person saying it is really not on the same page and cannot fathom why they're making that decision.

Just food for thought.

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Silverstream is also very tactile.

She is absolutely a hugger. All the time. But part of this is that with the change of forms, having hands/claws is pretty new to her. Neophile, so just being able to be touchy is new on its own.

Silverstream loves to experience new things, but when she can't, hearing about them will at least wet her appetite. This helps form the basis of their relationship.

Yup, absolutely. I see this as being sort of a devil's pairing at times - Ocellus finds out about something new, Silverstream goes WE SHOULD DO THAT and Ocellus - who enjoys learning - becomes her partner in crime.

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I think SIlverstream spending so much time as a hippogriff is a mixture of the show just not bringing the Students to water all that often, plus her neomania. I was seeing her as having Terramar's view on things, not feeling a need to choose between both forms, and was actually hoping to use the fact that she and Ocellus are both shapeshifters as a bit of bonding between the two, and also just make use of her seapony form more. At most I think she might find it kind of "samey" to be a seapony. It's a thoroughly explored, known quantity for her, while having wings and flying is still new.

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My worldbuilding instincts insist this means that her mother or father (whichever is Queen Novo's sibling) has a royal title in their own right (specifically, prince or princess), much as how Queen Elizabeth's younger sister was styled as Princess Margaret. It's quite likely that they would also have another, lower noble title; using Margaret again this would be earl/count (or countess). Silverstream doesn't necessarily have a title in her own right but as the older sibling would inherit that lower title, although not the title of princess.

I actually looked into this once, and yes, according to traditional royal European conventions (which is where MLP usually bases its lore on this subject), Silverstream's parents are part of the royal family, as are Silverstream and Terramar, even though neither are directly next in line to rule. This still means they are all entitled to royal titles of their own though. Silverstream's parents' titles can vary, but I determined that Silverstream most likely would bear the title of "Lady Silverstream," according to my research--a very minor title, but still a step up from that of a commoner and definitely makes her nobility at the very least.

Understandably, though, Silverstream's not in the habit of making a big deal about it. It's possible the rest of the Young Six don't know this detail yet, or know very little about it. Could be a story in that, or at least a plot point.

Silverstream and Sandbar both share a love of water and swimming, with Silverstream perhaps working on learning how to use her pearl shard to turn Sandbar into a seapony because he'd really love it.

"Surf and/or Turf" showed that doing this is relatively easy--she'd just need to be in contact with Sandbar when she activates the pearl to transform, and he should transform with her. Terramar seems to already be practiced at it at least, so I don't see why Silverstream wouldn't be as well.

Less seriously if we want to entertain the idea that Sandbar might occasionally, ah, partake of certain questionable substances, I can see Silverstream as chillin' with him too. She's the sort who'd get extremely deep and philosophical when high.

If I may, I vote we don't go that route. I never really bought the whole "Sandbar is a stoner" concept, partly because it's a blatant stereotype, and Sandbar never struck me as that sort of character anyway (actually, I tend to think of him as more of a, as Gallus would put it, "prude" )

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That’s fair. To be honest the “philosophical high” for Silverstream was actually inspired not by her being high, but her overreacting to having a cold while molting and thinking that she’s dying in Friends Who Molt Together.

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Oh lord, that was hilarious. XD

The clip at 3 minutes, 50 seconds is my current guide to Silverstream/Sandbar relations. Silverstream just being a little too fast/energetic for Sandbar to keep up but Sandbar being a total sport about it and following her as best as he can.

Very chaotic. Especially when Yona's roped in.

I actually tend to separate the six of them into different groups depending on the situation! (The names are more for fun than as technical terms that I'm suggesting)

The Protectors: Yona, Gallus and Smolder all join up to stand up for one of the other three from time to time. May bond over being looked at as "barbaric" or too culturally different from pony society.

The Soft: Silverstream, Ocellus and Sandbar I assume are the least confrontational. Often find themselves explaining friendship lessons to the other three. Arguably the most emotionally intelligent.

The Rich: Yona, Silverstream and Sandbar are no strangers to privilege, luxury or both. Equestrian ideals aren't new to them. Very internalized.

The Poor: Smolder, Gallus and Ocellus did not grow up with much. Getting over stigma set by their respective cultures about being friendly and kind.
Even though I feel like this is something that extends to all of the Young Six, I think these three have the most eyes on them as examples that they want/need to set for the rest of their people.

Jocks: Silverstream, Gallus and Smolder are the most athletic. The other three are more content to watch certain physical activities from the sidelines.

Pure Chaos: All of them, really, but Yona, Smolder and Silverstream are who you need to watch out for.

I'm sure there are more possibilities, but these are just off the top of my head.

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I'm glad you thought of multiple ways to group the Students. As an aside--sorry, but it's what came to mind when I first saw this--I was always irked when some writers (fan and otherwise) tended to lightmindedly label Twilight, Applejack and Fluttershy as the so-called "good" friends who were (usually) always responsible, considerate and level-headed as counterposed to the "bad" friends (Rainbow Dash, Pinkie Pie, Rarity) who were considered irresponsible, selfish, irrational, etc. I hate that conception and, as a writer, find it supremely lazy to designate certain characters as the ones to invariably cause a problem and others to invariably solve it. Very glad (but not surprised) that isn't how you handled this here.

Out of curiosity, are there any folks who have any particular attachment towards--or understanding of--specific members of the Student Six or Mane Six?

I think I have a solid grasp on Smolder, to a lesser extent Ocellus, and Rainbow Dash. I can probably do a passable Gallus and Yona, but admit that Sandbar and Silverstream might be a bit trickier for me, especially Sandy.

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I totally agree with this. I think I used to do it back in the day as well, in my head, but since I've started writing for the fandom I've realized that A) it's so much fun to have Twi, AJ or Fluttershy be the problem-makers and B) all of them are just a lot more nuanced than that.

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You're in luck because Sandbar and Silverstream (and Ocellus) are my jam. Gallus and Smolder I feel a kinship with but I'm pretty hard on myself when it comes to writing them so I'm not sure how my actual quality for them are. Yona kind of eludes me, as much as I love her.

With the Mane Six? I'm not completely sure, honestly. I feel like I have a lot of fun when I write Twi but I could be better. Rarity and AJ are a little more in my wheelhouse I think.

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I've been debating doing one for Gallus for a few days now, but I haven't gotten around to doing it yet.

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I definitely have an attachment to Gallus. I have also written stories from Silverstream’s, Ocellus’s, and Sandbar’s POVs, and I feel like I could again, but I don’t know how much I was really capturing them vs. writing a take on them. I haven’t written a story with Yona before, but I want to try at some point. She’s clearly got a richer inner life than people give her credit for, in particular about her sense of identity and how she relates to other, and that could develop as she interacts with Cozy. I think it’d be fun to translate all of that into Yak-talk. Smolder I’d be the most apprehensive writing because I have a feeling I’d write her as “Gallus, but dragon.”

For the Mane Six? It’s been years since I wrote anything major about them or from their POV. I used to write a lot of RD and Fluttershy, though, and I enjoyed writing Pinkie’s chaos-logic, but only in short spurts.

Notes

• Obviously, an orphan, and being brought up as such has played several key roles in shaping Gallus into who he is now, but Gallus prefers not to talk about that. He's more of the mentality that this is all old news and that there was no point in dwelling on it. He'd rather focus on the here and now than to be forever stuck moping about the past. Not to say that the past doesn't still haunt him every now and then, but when it does, he'll deal with it on his own terms and leave his friends out of it, not wanting to share the burden with them too.
• Ironically, given that tendency to not want to live in the past, Gallus isn't that great about thinking about the future, especially when it comes to not always considering all of the consequences of a given action. Hence why he's not so afraid to cause the odd trouble--he usually hasn't stopped to think much about the trouble that'll get him into.
• Because he often had to look out for himself, Gallus is fairly independent. While living in Griffonstone and to make sure he had enough bits to provide for himself, he often worked a variety of odd jobs--anything that promised to pay him any amount of bits. These jobs are odd and varied, but it has resulted in Gallus occasionally picking up an number of odd skills one wouldn't expect him to have at first glance, and sometimes skills he hasn't stopped to think might still be applicable somewhere else even after he's stopped doing the job that had originally given it to him. What sort of skills these can be are open for debate.
• Though Gallus was used to looking out for himself first and foremost growing up, since coming to the school and meeting all of his friends, that stance has shifted greatly to the point now that, not wanting to face the idea of losing said friends, he'll be quick to come to their defense...unless he's for some reason unhappy with them, but even then he's not likely to let his friends to come to serious harm while he's there and able to do something to maybe prevent it if he can. In short, Gallus usually has the backs of all his friends, or at least is sure as heck going to try to.
• Because of Gallus's upbringing, he's pretty "street savvy," in the sense that he's very in the know about some of the more shady practices that can go on in the darker corners of city streets, and has been exposed to a wide variety of things that perhaps he may not have, at least at the age he was when he was first witness to it. This doesn't mean Gallus frequently took part in such shady activities--he has standards and lines he's unwilling to cross still, even before coming to the School of Friendship--but he does know how to play the game and even beat creatures who are making a living in such shady practices at their own game so he can come out as the victor.
• Gallus is a decently skilled at card games, namely ones where betting or money are involved, and back in Griffonstone has occasionally used that to his advantage, especially when playing against other griffs he's taken a disliking to. At the school, though, he doesn't really take part in that sort of card games much, aware that his professors might not approve if they were to find out. But when he does, especially when playing with his friends, he doesn't play for keeps...usually.
• Like most griffons, Gallus is very bit-conscious and careful with his money--he's not really one to splurge his hard-earned bits unless it's a special occasion or the payoff is expected to more than make up for the loss. That said, he's also knows the art of making a deal, and how to spin and barter it so that he gets the most profit he can out of it, while also spending the least amount of bits himself so to get it. He'll quite readily try and talk down a price for something as much as anyone's willing to let him get away with it, even if its as little as a quarter of a bit's difference. Occasionally he gets called as being a "tightwad" because of all of this, something Gallus will quite readily dispute. The idea of spending money for the benefit of someone else rather than himself is still a relatively new idea, but one he's gradually starting to see is worth considering.
• Gallus likes to think of himself as a ladies griff, but ironically hasn't had much luck with any of the ladies up to this point. His ladies griff attitude is more for show than anything, anyway--Gallus would actually be pretty gentlemanly with any lady who might be willing to give him a chance, and having seen other less-savory griffs be less than nice to the ladies back home, Gallus has already resolved to himself that he doesn't intend to be the same with whomever ends up being his lucky lady. That all said, Gallus is also not really in a hurry to get into anything too romantic, especially not while at the school. He expects his significant other, whomever that may prove to be, will be another griffon...but you never know, perhaps he'll be surprised.
• When it comes to his studies, Gallus is quick to get bored with it and struggles to have the focus to give it the attention he needs at times. But on a whole he has rather enjoyed his schooling, not that he'll ever admit it. He especially likes the more dramatic parts of their history lessons.
• He has daydreamed about how cool it'd be to be a noble guardscreature or like position where he can fight off bad guys and save the day and such...but it hasn't occurred to him that this is something he might actually be able to one day pursue...yet.

Relationships

• Ocellus: Gallus sees Ocellus as a bookworm and occasionally a know-it-all, but usually in a good way. She's way more dedicated to their studies than he knows he will ever be, so he also knows that if he ever gets stuck on his studies, Ocellus is his gal to talk to for help. Because Ocellus is more shy and quiet than he is, Gallus occasionally finds himself unable to relate to her, especially when just coming out and saying what's on her mind like he would is something Ocellus is less likely to do. Still, he thinks Ocellus is more capable that she sometimes thinks she is, and isn't afraid to tell her as such up front.
• Smolder: Because she has a similar rough-and-tumble lifestyle, Smolder is the one Gallus often finds himself relating to the most, and as a result, they were always the quickest to become friends. Whenever the namby-pambiness of life at the school gets to them, Gallus can count on Smolder as someone he can not only vent some of his criticisms over that with but also fully expect to join right in on too. They are also both more likely to be troublemakers or class clowns, and often join forces to do so, if only because they both want in on the other's action in such instances. Gallus also likes Smolder outwards tough girl attitude, and is usually taken aback whenever Smolder might demonstrate her softer side, to the point that he's never quite sure how he ought to respond in such instances. He also admires how Smolder is likewise independent as he is, but also doesn't seem to have any qualms (that he can tell) about being a loner if need be.
• Sandbar: As the only other guy in their group of friends, Sandbar is the one Gallus is most likely to turn to for any problems he wouldn't comfortably bring before the other girls, and is always the one Gallus would turn to when he needs some "guy time." It is safe to say the two are "best buds" and "bros" in that regard, and often like to hang out one-on-one as such, doing the usual sort of activities you'd expect two guys to get up to in their spare time. However, having been brought up in two very different worlds, Gallus occasionally is frustrated by how Sandbar's idea of a fun time is often very different from that of Gallus's. Because of his good-natured pony upbringing, Gallus occasionally teases Sandbar for being a "prude."
• Yona: Yona's boisterous and "yaks best" attitude and tendencies occasionally rub Gallus the wrong way, but the more he's gotten to know Yona, the more he's come to see she's just a big furry cinnamon bun. He sees Yona as being stronger than him, and thus doesn't see the need to humiliate himself trying to out muscle her. At the same time, he also knows that if there's anything heavy he needs help moving, Yona's the gal to ask...unless its fragile, in which case he might be overprotective of it when Yona's around. Yona and Sandbar being a thing is still something Gallus is trying to wrap his head around, though he mostly keeps that to himself, not wanting to sound like he's being unsupportive. He doesn't always like how he now has to compete with Yona for Sandbar's time more though.
• Silverstream: Gallus sees Silverstream as the closest to another griffon, and sometimes gets caught up thinking of her at such. But he also recognizes she is at the same time very different from most griffons he knows, being bright, bubbly, and cheerful almost to a fault...but he also finds it hard to ever get too mad at her. The fact that she's a "hugger" though and so open about her emotions occasionally leaves Gallus feeling awkward or, at worse, annoyed. Her exuberance and positivity is sometimes something he struggles to deal with for longer than short bursts and it can overwhelm him. He's usually impressed at how she's always so much more happy and positive about...well...everything than him, even if he doesn't always show it, and often doesn't understand how she can be for so many things, even when things might seem like they aren't going their way. Privately, he sometimes wishes he could do that himself. The fact Silverstream tends to be quicker to splurge her bits on anything that happens to catch her fancy without much careful consideration on whether or not it might be a good investment tends to bother Gallus, and he's usually the first to advise Silverstream against it (not that she listens most of the time).

Possible Stories

• His reluctance or general intolerance of Cozy Glow
• Trying to compete for his bud Sandbar's time when Yona is trying to get her share of it now that she and Sandbar are a thing
• Trying to temper his natural griffon greed and bit-mongering, and finding there's more to it than wealth
• Trying to think more positively on life, or to open up more about some of his deeper feelings
• Finding a place to belong
• Staring to think ahead to his future beyond school and just what it is he really wants from his life moving forward
• How he and Smolder is obviously best ship
• Continuing how to learn to cope with friendship and the world of Equestria he's been spending more and more time living in
• Trying to deal with the pressure and expectations are starting to place upon him...
• ...especially now that he has the Spirit of Harmony's apparent blessing and support hanging over his head.

So some of these might veer a little much into personal headcanon territories, but I tried to keep that to a minimum, unless I felt it made sense for the direction we're planning to take the series. Any and all input is welcomed--that is what the point of this whole thread is anyway.

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One thing you didn't touch on is Gallus' normal attitude - he defaults a lot to going "Yeah, whatever, I don't care" to a lot of things even when he does care about it. It comes across as a defensive mechanism - you can't hurt him if he doesn't give a damn. It's where a lot of his sarcasm comes from.

Because Ocellus is more shy and quiet than he is, Gallus occasionally finds himself unable to relate to her

I think an interesting point in their relations is that Gallus is used to seeing the rougher side of the world and is more street savvy - but while Ocellus comes across as naive, she's the one who's probably seen the roughest times of the six. It probably causes a bit of whiplash for Gallus.

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Agreed on Ocellus. One trait I think that Gallus and Ocellus should share, as well, is that they’re both voracious eaters. They eat fast and eat lots and “seagull” from their friends when possible. They don’t waste food and there won’t be leftovers when they’re at the table.

I was thinking about Yona today while at work and had a thought I figure I might as well float past all of you, and this seemed like the best thread to do it in, seeing it'll factor in directly with any eventual dossier for Yona, should we agree to go this route.

Remember how in "What Lies Beneath," when Yona made friends with a spider (and in turn all of its spider friends) and was actively conversing with it? I've seen a few fans speculate that this suggests that Yona might have the ability to communicate with animals akin to Fluttershy, and I thought that might be a fun character trait for us to explore with Yona, as well as give her something new to be doing/working on throughout the series too...assuming everybody decides we want to go this way.

Might give a basic plot for a Yona/Fluttershy story too--Fluttershy picks up on Yona having this ability and geeks out over knowing someone else that can talk with animals too and works to try and hone Yona's skill in it, etc.

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Animals in Equestria are weird. Most of them seem sapient, to one degree or another. Or at least, highly intelligent to the point where they understand and can communicate, in limited ways, with ponies. We see as much with the Mane Six and their pets, so seeing Yona do that with spiders doesn't make it all that noteworthy.

Also, interesting thing worth noting with Fluttershy? Her ability was -not- always the ability to perfectly communicate with animals. Remember way back in S1 where Angel had to pantomime to Fluttershy and she kept guessing what he was trying to say--and guessing wrong? Somehow that trait became metamorphosed into "Fluttershy as Dr. Doolittle." Honestly not sure if that was an improvement or not.

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I was thinking about that too, how other creatures could seem to communicate, or at least understand to a degree, what other animals were trying to tell them--not just ponies too, there's Spike's arguing with Owlicious, Silverstream and that cockatrice she befriended, and so on (Applejack and Winona don't count, on the count that Winona is a trained dog in all the usual farm dog ways that could be done still IRL). However, something the show is consistent on is that some are shown to be much better, or just more naturally talented, at it than others, with Fluttershy in particular especially standing out at this skill, something that was never really debated throughout the whole of the show. You needed help with animals? Fluttershy was your gal to talk to, because she always seems to understand the needs of the particular animal better than others would.

And to me, in the world of Equestria, it makes sense this is a "skill" some creatures can have better than others. Sort of like how a pegasus is better at weather management than a unicorn would be, because a pegasus tends to have that natural skill (heck, even some pegasi have shown more skill at weather management than other pegasi, e.g. Rainbow versus Fluttershy), except in the case of animal communication, it wouldn't be so clearly defined by pony tribe and instead could pop up in just about anybody.

So obviously, Fluttershy isn't unique with the skill, as others would arguably have it too, but not all as simply as good at it as she is, so to find someone else who might be of more parallel skill with Fluttershy, that's what would make the skill stand out more.

But I suppose, if nothing else, we could always add the refinement and training of this skill to be part of what Fluttershy teaches in her class, so there's still that to get out of this. Further, I suppose Yona could just be one example who decides to truly refine the skill more than would appear to be the average for others.

There's a couple different ways to approach this, really.

I'm not too especially attached to the idea, though. I just thought it was a neat idea that could be cool to do so I threw it out there to see if others agreed.

So, we've gone over Smolder and the birbs. Anyone have any particular insight into our three remaining students?

7310378
I could probably put together something on Ocellus or Yona if needed, although I was under the impression that 7289819 would put something together for Sandbar.

I totally spaced! My apologies. I'll try and get something in by tomorrow.

7310788
No worries!

Notes

• Ponyville resident. Part of the crop of locals that were accepted into Twilight's school. I think he's lived there all of his life, and so has his family going back a few generations. His family tends to take trips out to coastal towns—they all tend to have ocean or sea related special talents and names—but they always return to Ponyville. "It's a ways away from the water, but It's home."

• The transition of Ponyville from a sleepy hamlet to a place full of wacky hijinks after the Summer Sun Celebration and Nightmare Moon/Princess Luna's return has given him a thirst for adventure. Sandbar loves the Daring Do novels and has gone over the Mane Six's published Friendship Journal so many times that he could recite the entirety of the show's events at will. He isn't an adrenaline junkie like Rainbow Dash or Twilight Velvet—he's much more quiet about his want for a thrill. This is partially what fuels his 'go with the flow' attitude, as well. He's hoping that he'll walk into something epic as long as he keeps his options open.

• He's low-key one of the more mysterious students in certain ways. He's never explained what his special talent is, and always manages to avoid the subject when his friends ask. What do the turtles mean? No one knows yet. No one knows why he's attending the School of Friendship, either. He's friendly and likeable, right? He tends to swerve around that subject, too.

• Sandbar is the second shortest in the group. The only one smaller than him is Ocellus.

• Not unintelligent. Actually very crafty when the time calls for it (such as his impromptu betrayal in School Raze). But he's not as outwardly clever as Gallus and not as much of a bookworm as Ocellus or Silverstream. He generally makes up for this in academic work with enthusiasm and willingness to put his focus and his passion into whatever's being taught. On the flip side, he's probably the most emotionally intelligent out of the students, even counting Ocellus. He often finds himself as the go-to shoulder to cry on, and being friends with the students most prone to not fitting in, and to being extremely homesick on the first week of semesters, his shoulder is cried on a lot.

• More on the previous point, Sandbar's pony upbringing has given him an anticipation for excitement and chaos, but also a near inability to see the negative traits about a person. He's extremely tolerant. Very prone to manipulation and to being taken advantage of. He'll be quick to express disdain for someone as open about their hate as Chancellor Neighsay, of course, but Sandbar sometimes has a hard time knowing when a friendship is one-sided.

• Has a soft spot for things that are "different". Anything outside the norm is something that Sandbar is ready to embrace with a Pinkie Pie level of confidence.

Relationships

• Gallus: Sandbar and Gallus are best bros for life. Now that they're friends, Gallus has found a great source of entertainment in Sandbar's pony naïveté. Their cultural differences are a point of friendly banter, and their status as the only two guys of the group has given them a close bond. Sandbar has a great admiration for Gallus, and frequently does his best to boost the griffon's self esteem. They hang out one-on-one a lot, but adding Smolder or Silverstream to the mix usually results in the kind of chaos that Gallus is aiming to have a good time in. When they argue, one is always quick to apologize right afterwards. They both underestimate how comfortable they are in each other's presence, and aren't really fans of situations that cause them to be apart.

• Ocellus: When the attack on the Canterlot Royal Wedding happened, Sandbar was not particularly fazed. He mostly thought of the changelings as kinda cool, if a little scary. His lack of animosity towards the changelings, even when they were "evil," is a great source of comfort to Ocellus, who occasionally finds herself worrying about her race's reputation and ponies' expectations of her. Sandbar looks at Ocellus as a kind of big sister, and in turn Ocellus takes a caring, almost coddling attitude towards Sandbar. Ocellus's word is law. Ocellus knows best. The wisest thing to do in most given situations is to listen to her, because she's probably right. She has to be, after reading like, a thousand books every week, right?

• Smolder: Smolder brings out Sandbar's physically active side. He's always down to race or arm wrestle or have a belching contest, even if Smolder always wins. Sandbar's unexpected dragon-like tenacity has awarded him a warm fondness from Smolder, and they hang out one-on-one frequently. However, they are also pretty prone to fighting. Sandbar's freaky memorization of the professors' adventures and the ease with which their lessons come to him ("Why are you even here if you already know everything?") can get under Smolder's skin, and Smolder is usually the one to instigate morally gray actions in her friends, which Sandbar is quick to protest against. They experience culture shock with each other the most, and Sandbar can sometimes find himself getting frustrated with how closed off Smolder gets when she experiences hard emotion. Her occasional reluctance to apologize when she's done wrong or acknowledge her own mistakes can really upset him and hurt his feelings.

• Yona: This yak melts every layer of Sandbar's heart. Her brand of boisterous pride in her culture serves to excite him and rally her up in turn. He loves being able to teach her about common aspects of pony life and the nuances of friendship, and he takes pride in the fact that she's come to see him as a source of stability and comfort. Yona can be hard to keep up with at times, but in Sandbar's eyes, it's always, always worth it. Her stubbornness can occasionally cause conflict, but Sandbar's usually the one to fold when he's in Yona's way.

• Silverstream: Complete, utter chaos. Silverstream's very hard to keep up with, even moreso than Yona, but Sandbar does his best. When she's in a really hyperactive state she can be extremely hard to follow, but it's Sandbar's willingness to shrug and go along with things that makes up the core of their friendship. Underneath it all, Sandbar recognizes the trials and tribulations that Silverstream's had to go through in her life, and he's more than happy to help her relish in the new experiences that Equestria has to offer. Just don't let them study for tests together. They may or may not end up burning down half the town because they got distracted halfway through and decided to become fireworks dealers.

He isn't an adrenaline junkie like Rainbow Dash or Twilight Velvet—he's much more quiet about his want for a thrill.

He's what I'd refer to as an 'adventure tourist' - he's in it for the sights and the experience rather than the excitement. He'll totally do the excitement, but he feels like he's more about the overall experience. The 'find undiscovered ruins and beautiful sweeping vistas' part of Daring Do rather than the 'escape a collapsing temple' part.

He often finds himself as the go-to shoulder to cry on, and being friends with the students most prone to not fitting in, and to being extremely homesick on the first week of semesters, his shoulder is cried on a lot.

This is key to Sandbar's role in the group, I think. He's the steady rock the others orbit around. The other five are fairly bombastic - they've got a lot of quirks, a lot of triggers and they're all bad at falling prey to their own psychological issues. Sandbar isn't immune to that but he's a lot more emotionally stable than the others and he's the one that pulls them back from the brink. The earth pony keeps them grounded.

Yona:

One thing you don't mention there is that Sandbar and Yona share a notable common trait: family. Gallus is an orphan; Smolder basically doesn't have a family aside from her brother; Silverstream's parents are fantasy-divorced; and Ocellus' family is super weird as the changelings try to mimic pony families and don't quite get it. Sandbar and Yona are the only ones that come from traditional family structures and have those families as major parts of their lives. It's something they can bond over that none of the others have.

7312291
I'm not quite sure I see all these attributes of Sandbar. A lot of things seem to sail right past him, including his friends' sarcasm when it comes to his not-so exciting stories. Relatedly, I don't think he's quite as 'quiet' in his desire for adventure as suggested here. From the way he tries to add a flair of epicness to the utterly mundane and boring, I think he very much wants to be on adventures--or at least has come from a place that was so boring that he doesn't have a sufficient appreciation for when something is actually exciting; trying to make mountains out of molehills.

7312291
You forgot something.

One thing you don't mention there is that Sandbar and Yona share a notable common trait: family. Gallus is an orphan; Smolder basically doesn't have a family aside from her brother; Silverstream's parents are fantasy-divorced; and Ocellus' family is super weird as the changelings try to mimic pony families and don't quite get it. Sandbar and Yona are the only ones that come from traditional family structures and have those families as major parts of their lives. It's something they can bond over that none of the others have.

That's a super great point!

A lot of things seem to sail right past him, including his friends' sarcasm when it comes to his not-so exciting stories.

This is kind of what I meant when I was talking about his blind spot when it comes to negativity. I don't think he's completely oblivious to it, but I think he just has a higher threshold for what he lets bother him.

Relatedly, I don't think he's quite as 'quiet' in his desire for adventure as suggested here. From the way he tries to add a flair of epicness to the utterly mundane and boring, I think he very much wants to be on adventures--or at least has come from a place that was so boring that he doesn't have a sufficient appreciation for when something is actually exciting; trying to make mountains out of molehills.

I totally phrased this wrong haha, I actually agree with what you've said here! I think I meant that he's not sneaking off to go base jumping in his off time and he's not going to complain when things aren't as exciting as they could be. He does want an adventure. He just wants to let it happen naturally.

7312500
Very cute. I think his friends can agree.

7312328

and Ocellus' family is super weird as the changelings try to mimic pony families and don't quite get it.

Which reminds me, over in The Student Families thread, we got to talking about what stance we wanted to take for the subject of changeling families for this series. In reviewing that thread just now, it doesn't look like we ever came to a final consensus, but it looked to me we were veering towards the individual changelings always having the ability to have families of their own, but under Chrysalis's rule those families were kept broken up for political/put-to-work purposes, and it was only after Thorax took over did the families start coming back together again.

The reason I bring it up again here is, first, to give us all a friendly nudge to remind us to get that definitively settled finally , and second, to point out that, should that indeed be the direction we want to adopt, then it's not that changelings aren't already familiar with the concept of families, but rather that they're just a bit out of practice but already fully familiar with how it's supposed to work.

Besides, changelings have been implied to have been feeding off the ponies for many, many, many years--centuries, if the comics are to be believed--so I would think they are already more than familiar with the concept of families and how they're supposed to work from observing and imitating the ponies when in disguise and "on the hunt" as it were. So it really wouldn't be something new for them--I have a hard time believing they'd be basically inept or ignorant on the subject like they were to Hearth's Warming at least.

7313030
The changelings might intellectually understand the concept of "family" while still having a bit of disconnect for how it should work within the Hive, particularly if there's aspects of how the Hive did things that they actually discover they want to keep. Like the idea of laying eggs in a communal chamber and larva generally growing up around each other, rather than necessarily the parents' home.

7313119
See, that's why I want us to discuss this and get nailed down an agreed upon consensus--there's clearly a need to.

That said, I'd still argue that's not the same as "don't quite get it" as it's still family of a sort--just done differently.

Also raises a related point too--why do we have to assume the changelings are "mimicking" the ponies on this at all? Perhaps they already had their own version of a family structure they were practicing and part of it just happen to visually appear the same as the ponies. I mean, it's families--doesn't matter who or what you are, there's always going to be some overlap, those parts that are still universal across all.

Twist ending: maybe it's the ponies who are mimicking the changelings on families instead of the other way around.

Seriously, though--we need a consensus on this, maybe a new thread even...something to consider, I guess.

Notes

• As I think we've all agreed upon, Ocellus should probably just be an ordinary drone changeling, not a nascent queen or anything like that. That being said, do we have any objections to the idea that she was in-training to be an infiltrator? It would help to explain her lines in "What Lies Beneath", where she seemed to be personally ashamed of her past, not merely ashamed of changelings' past as a whole. She might not have actually gone on any missions yet, though, or if she had she may have been doing some basic "shadowing" without any actual mission other than practice. This might also open up the possibility that she's actually better educated than typical changelings who were only expected to remain at the Hive or serve as warriors.
• She has a stubborn streak. Comic #84 (which I vote we treat as canon) shows this off very well with how focused she was on perfecting her school project even though it was exhausting her to the point of her passing out in classes (i.e., our normally studious book-bug was focused enough on her project to let herself fall behind in class). This same stubborn streak seemed to be applied to her desire to be a cheerleader despite her normally soft-spoken and timid nature.
• Like all changelings, she grew up startving for love. Her new Reformed form no longer requires her to feed on the love of others to live (her love with replenish naturally), but habit means that she tends to take little "love bites" throughout the day from her friends. These are tiny (like the equivalent of eating a mini cupcake) and have no impact on the target. The Young Six know about this habit and don't mind it.
• The TV show extremely briefly flirted with the idea that she has self-identity issues, although it was also treated as something that's fairly normal for changelings. It gets all of two seconds of mention, however, so I'm honestly not sure how much we want to focus on this, although if we go the former-infiltrator-in-training thing for her then there is at least the potential for her in high-stress and high-danger situations (such as being within ten feet of Cozy Glow) having to mentally beat back her old training and instincts.
• While she's probably taken Thorax's admonishment to keep to her own form around others to heart most of the time, the ability to shapeshift into another form to just kind of get "alone time" is rife with possibilities and something we could explore. Plus Thorax's admonishment was only about hiding her true form. Seapony form to swim with Silverstream or dragon-form to enjoy a fire-bath with Ember should be perfectly fine.
• Ocellus wants to genuinely believe that Cozy Glow can change, but at the same time her ability to smell and taste emotions means that when Cozy's masquerade slips Ocellus better than anyone at the school can sense Cozy's resentment, anger, and hate that lies beneath her sweet exterior. That same emotional sense also means that when things are going poorly for the group, Ocellus' instincts might be to bottle up or retreat from the bad vibes.
• While she wants to play peacemaker when needed in the group, her somewhat timid nature plus the intense emotions from fights between whoever's arguing can cause her to, again, either bottle up or retreat.
• On a lighter note, I've been writing her with an immense sweet tooth, to the point where practically everything she eats or drinks has a significant amount of sugar, be it a fruit bowl for breakfast, all the sugar in her tea, etc. This might not necessarily be a personal trait so much as a general changeling thing (honeybees, natch).
• Also on a lighter note, as with how I'd like to slightly play up Silverstream's height, I'd like to slightly play up (down?) the fact that Ocellus is the shortest of the Young Six, though she should probably be average-sized for a changeling her age. She's small enough, and light enough, that Gallus and SIlverstream (who don't have the preternatural strength of Yona, Smolder, or Sandbar) can pick her up in their arms pretty easily. On a few occasions when they're doing a group-hug this results in Ocellus being physically passed around, something Yona's nicknamed "pass buggy". Ocellus finds it alternatively degrading and delicious. She knows that her friends mean it affectionately.
• Finally, Ocellus might just be the most mature of the Young Six. While she has her moments, for the most part she slips easily into the role of "team mom", or at least "team bug who has to keep the rest of us on-task and focused".
• Ocellus enjoys all her classes the most, although she particularly likes Professor Rarity's classes for the fact that they give her a chance to show off her shapechanging in a positive way

Relationships

• Gallus: Gallus is a lot smarter than he gives himself credit for. He views Ocellus as a book bug (of course, she views herself as a book bug) and will seek her out for help with school work or other knowledge stuff, although it's reasonably common for Ocellus to help Gallus realize that he actually knew the answer the entire time if he'd only applied himself more. His somewhat lazy approach to schoolwork can grate her at times, especially when she knows that he's capable of a lot more. Ocellus and Gallus are also somewhat united in the fact that of the Young Six, they had the hardest life as kids, particularly over how hungry they were growing up. No food is wastes when they're both at the table.
• Smolder: Smolder also had a hard life growing up, but unlike Gallus and Ocellus she thoroughly enjoyed it in typical Draconic fashion. While occasionally shocking, the fact that Smolder just isn't bothered by the hard life she personally had and instead has drawn great personal strength from it is something that Ocellus admires. Like with Galllus, Ocellus also helps Smolder out with her school work at times, though unlike Gallus Smolder is a little more likely to have genuinely not paid attention and not know things (not that she's dumb so much as Smolder can let her emotions skew her priorities). Smolder and Ocellus also of course have their personal, mutual love of cute things and their secret tea parties. Ocellus feels a great amount of privilege in being the only one who truly knows about this side of Smolder, although at the same time she tries to encourage Smolder to indulge in her love of cute, frou-frou things more openly.
• Silverstream: Ocellus and Silverstream have a bit of a sisterly relationship. Silverstream views herself as being in the "big sister" role, although given Ocellus' maturity she thinks that she is the "big sister". In any event Silverstream's exuberance, sincerity, and her love of physical contact are all things that Ocellus loves about Silverstream. When the group is together Ocellus often finds herself wrapped in one of Silverstream's wings. Silverstream is also an attentive audience for Ocellus' bottomless well of knowledge that she acquired from reading, in fact Silverstream is almost as prolific a reader as Ocellus, although also a far more random one.
• Yona: Kind of like with Smolder, Yona's exuberance and certainty is a great source of confidence for Ocellus. Yona never doubts who Yona is, and Yona never doubts what Yona is about or what Yona wants. Yona's ability to think and act in straight lines is something that Ocellus is actually a little jealous of, never overthinking things or trying to come up with a way to approach a situation sideways. When Ocellus needs a solid rock of a friend to help steer her in the right direction, she tends to look to Yona.
• Sandbar: Some level of Ocellus worries on occasion that she has the relationship with Sandbar that she does - a sort of "big sister" one with Sandbar tending to listen to what she says or look to her for advice - as a result of the fact that some part of Ocellus still sees Sandbar as food, or she worries that some part of her still sees him as food, even if it's not true. On the other hoof, Ocellus greatly appreciates the fact that Sandbar doesn't seem to have much innate animosity towards her or changelings in general (tete-a-tete during one Hearth's Warming Eve when emotions were running high notwithstanding).

7356293

That being said, do we have any objections to the idea that she was in-training to be an infiltrator?

This is entirely sensible - she would have been getting trained to do something and she's certainly no warrior - and opens up a lot of possibilities for deeper character moments. (I admit a weakness for the reformed villain type so I'm a little biased.)

The TV show extremely briefly flirted with the idea that she has self-identity issues, although it was also treated as something that's fairly normal for changelings.

This, I think, is perfectly normal for changelings given who and what they are. It's something that can be focused on because it's useful in a story but at the same time I don't see it as a dominating part of herself. Changelings having a certain amount of identity issues is natural and expected, so she'd be relatively accepting of her own situation.

Ocellus wants to genuinely believe that Cozy Glow can change, but at the same time her ability to smell and taste emotions

Some care needs to be done here - this is a potential plot hole. If Ocellus can 'taste' emotions, why didn't she detect Cozy's initial deceptions? (The first part would be my explanation - Ocellus knew/knows but gave Cozy the benefit of the doubt and a lot of leeway.)

Ocellus feels a great amount of privilege in being the only one who truly knows about this side of Smolder

I think this touches on a part of (what I see in) Ocellus you didn't really mention - she loves secrets. It's the changeling background - she's from a society that was all about concealment and secrecy. Being entrusted by someone else in their secrets is a big deal for her, and puzzling things out is a double thrill (she gets to both know a secret AND do a smart thing!)

7356293
I’d also toss out that Ocellus’ can smell the awful feelings of anger, bitterness, suspicion, betrayal, etc, her friends feel when they’re around Cozy and is concerned about what those negative feelings are doing to them; hence why she pushes to give Cozy a chance because she’s afraid of what it’d do to her friends to let those feelings fester and sink into them on a long term basis.

7356293

As I think we've all agreed upon, Ocellus should probably just be an ordinary drone changeling, not a nascent queen or anything like that. That being said, do we have any objections to the idea that she was in-training to be an infiltrator? It would help to explain her lines in "What Lies Beneath", where she seemed to be personally ashamed of her past, not merely ashamed of changelings' past as a whole. She might not have actually gone on any missions yet, though, or if she had she may have been doing some basic "shadowing" without any actual mission other than practice. This might also open up the possibility that she's actually better educated than typical changelings who were only expected to remain at the Hive or serve as warriors.

Echoing the others that I think this is a great idea, especially the idea that she was trained as an infiltrator, but never actually got any real experience doing it before the reformation. Makes me wonder if Ocellus ever stops to think about what could've been then...

As for her being more educated than the average changeling because of this, I'm okay with that idea, but I would advise we be careful to not play it up too much that we make the other changelings seem like idiots by comparison, because I don't believe that they are. A bit naive of the realities of their world now that they're reformed and so full of "good vibrations" (if you will), but not unintelligent themselves. So I would liken Ocellus to, as a rough example, to someone who has a doctorate in her field by comparison to the average layperson who only has a bachelors at most. Everybody understand what I'm trying to say there?

Like all changelings, she grew up starving for love. Her new Reformed form no longer requires her to feed on the love of others to live (her love with replenish naturally), but habit means that she tends to take little "love bites" throughout the day from her friends. These are tiny (like the equivalent of eating a mini cupcake) and have no impact on the target. The Young Six know about this habit and don't mind it.

This is partly because the franchise itself never made it abundantly clear how this worked post-reformation, so there was wiggle room left for fans to interpret it how they wished...but I personally always had the headcanon that changelings still absolutely feed on love (and other emotions) like they had before, and need to in order to survive. What changed wasn't that need but rather how they went about addressing that need. Before, they hoarded any and all emotion they collected to themselves, skewing who got how much when and how much would be left for others. Now, though, post reformation, they no longer hoard and instead share that love freely with each other. As a result, a changeling is pretty much always fed perpetually at the hive because of all of the 'lings sharing their love, so there's never a need to go without there. At the school, Ocellus can't bank on that quite as much, but is still in no real danger because positive emotions are plentiful at the school as well (maybe there's something to explore on what might happen to a reformed changeling that is totally isolated from any and all emotion then).

And personally I've always liked that idea, because A: it makes it seem less like the reformed changelings are totally different biologically speaking but instead still have many of the same traits as before, just addressed in a different way, and B: this "sharing of resources" concept seems like a good fit for a hive-like society.

But at the same time, that's just my personal approach to it. If we wanna go another direction with this instead, I'll roll with that too.

The TV show extremely briefly flirted with the idea that she has self-identity issues, although it was also treated as something that's fairly normal for changelings. It gets all of two seconds of mention, however, so I'm honestly not sure how much we want to focus on this, although if we go the former-infiltrator-in-training thing for her then there is at least the potential for her in high-stress and high-danger situations (such as being within ten feet of Cozy Glow) having to mentally beat back her old training and instincts.

I really like this idea too, and as others have said, seems like a logical problem for a race of shapeshifters to have, this sense of "if I can transform into anything I want, then what does that make me truly?" I agree with 7356542 that for Ocellus, it shouldn't ever be too big or crippling of a problem for her and that most of the time she's pretty confident on who she is and who she wants to be...but, you know, when the going gets tough, I could still see her having moments where she might second guess herself on this a bit.

Also on a lighter note, as with how I'd like to slightly play up Silverstream's height, I'd like to slightly play up (down?) the fact that Ocellus is the shortest of the Young Six, though she should probably be average-sized for a changeling her age. She's small enough, and light enough, that Gallus and SIlverstream (who don't have the preternatural strength of Yona, Smolder, or Sandbar) can pick her up in their arms pretty easily. On a few occasions when they're doing a group-hug this results in Ocellus being physically passed around, something Yona's nicknamed "pass buggy". Ocellus finds it alternatively degrading and delicious. She knows that her friends mean it affectionately.

I also like this, as I've too always seen Ocellus as the small and...not fragile, per se, but not as tough, resilient, and well-built--physically speaking--as like say Yona or Smolder.

Finally, Ocellus might just be the most mature of the Young Six. While she has her moments, for the most part she slips easily into the role of "team mom", or at least "team bug who has to keep the rest of us on-task and focused".

Also okay with this, though I'd rather lean more into the "team bug who has to keep the rest of us on-task and focused" aspect rather than the "team mom" side of it, as I just think that's a better match for both Ocellus and how she's been shown to interact with the rest of the Young 6 in the past.

Ocellus and Gallus are also somewhat united in the fact that of the Young Six, they had the hardest life as kids, particularly over how hungry they were growing up. No food is wastes when they're both at the table.

I'm actually surprised at myself for having never really thought of that before, but now that you mention it, that does seem like a perfectly logical trait for both characters, so yeah, let's do that!

Ocellus and Silverstream have a bit of a sisterly relationship. Silverstream views herself as being in the "big sister" role, although given Ocellus' maturity she thinks that she is the "big sister".

Thinking about that previous question on how we want to approach the question of how changelings do families (which, by the way, I still don't feel like we've got a definitive enough of a plan set out for that), we could play into that a bit in that Ocellus might actually think of Silverstream (or maybe even the rest of the Young 6 too) as a sort of sibling, since the "all for one and one for all" sort of mentality of the hive leads most changelings to see the whole hive as one big extended family, even if they aren't actually of direct biological relation. It would fit in well with the idea we've tossed around before that any changeling offspring were raised as a group during Chrysalis's reign and that such a mentality still persists to some degree now today.

7356542

I think this touches on a part of (what I see in) Ocellus you didn't really mention - she loves secrets. It's the changeling background - she's from a society that was all about concealment and secrecy. Being entrusted by someone else in their secrets is a big deal for her, and puzzling things out is a double thrill (she gets to both know a secret AND do a smart thing!)

Another cool idea that I rather like. I don't think it'd be fitting of Ocellus to get too carried away with this idea, but I could definitely see her having an appreciation and respect for the sanctity and importance of secrets and thus sees it as something of an honor to be entrusted with them. In a way, the argument can be made that secrets to her are like hoard items are for Smolder. It would also give a great world-building explanation as to why Ocellus would like Smolder to share some of her secrets with the others, but has thus far left that up to Smolder and not tried to do anything to "give it a nudge" in that direction herself.

7356542

I admit a weakness for the reformed villain type

Me too!

Ocellus knew/knows but gave Cozy the benefit of the doubt and a lot of leeway

I was thinking this, plus "deception" isn't an emotion. Sniffing out lies would require sensing the right combinations of emotions (say, nervousness when a lie is told) and correctly guessing the reason for it, but it can be "screened" if the target is feeling other strong emotions at the time. As well, Ocellus might feel it a little redundant. No one trusts Cozy anyway so there's no real reason to go Councilor Troi and go "I sense great aggression, Captain" when the Klingons are charging their phaser banks and talking about how you're bound for Sto-vo-kor.

she loves secrets. It's the changeling background - she's from a society that was all about concealment and secrecy. Being entrusted by someone else in their secrets is a big deal for her, and puzzling things out is a double thrill

Detective Ocellus is on the case! We should totally work in Clue somehow.

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Agreed, but at the same time her aversion to being around so much negative emotions could cause her to shut out her friends without really meaning to.

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but I would advise we be careful to not play it up too much that we make the other changelings seem like idiots by comparison

No, I wasn't thinking "idiots", so much as they were only trained for what they needed to do and so things that might be pretty simple for an average pony or griffon aren't necessarily in the wheelhouse of an average changeling. Though with their newfound freedom I also imagine changelings are all kind of becoming Renaissance bugs as they all try out different things to learn what they like and don't like, what they're good at and not good at, and so on.

Principally I was thinking of the lack of education manifesting in the form of the changelings having a very low literacy rate. Probably not full illiteracy, but a lot of changelings might only be operating at like an elementary-school level.

As a result, a changeling is pretty much always fed perpetually at the hive because of all of the 'lings sharing their love, so there's never a need to go without there

The main issue I have with this is that this still would mean that changelings need an external source of love fairly regularly for the Hive, unless they can generate their own love. Changelings being able to feed off of each other will still mean that the Hive is gradually depleting all the love within it. To borrow a metaphor, this feels like trading out an unequal distribution of plenty for an equal distribution of poverty. So the top bugs aren't hoarding love anymore and the bottom bugs aren't quite as hungry, but the Hive as a whole is still losing love at the same rate that it was before. The bottom bugs are starving slower and the top bugs are starving quicker but overall they're all still starving.

So in other words they'd still need to take as much love from other sources - ponies and so on - as they were before, unless they have gained the ability to also create their own love without needing an external source.

My personal solution was to basically think of it in sort of RPG terms, specifically Vampire: the Masquerade. To grossly oversimplify, changelings have 10 Love Points. They can consume a Love Point to fuel magic (we know this is true because of Chrysalis explicitly linking love to magic in "A Canterlot Wedding"). Classic changelings additionally have to spend 1 Love Point every day as a source of food. They can't replenish Love Points on their own but can drain Love Points from other creatures, up to their maximum.

The way I see it, at minimum to function on their own Reformed changelings would need to at least lose that "daily bleed" of Love Points, meaning that simply being alive doesn't consume Love Points. A changeling who uses no magic and has 7 Love Points today will have 7 tomorrow and 7 a week from now. This would still mean that to replenish Love Points and allow them to use magic on a regular basis the way ponies and other creatures can, though, then they'd still need to parasitically feed on other creatures fairly regularly. So my thought is instead that Reformed changelings can replenish Love Points at a steady rate instead of bleeding them. Call it 1/day. A Reformed changeling who's down to 1 Love Point still has the option of parasitically feeding on other creatures, or they can wait and recover Love Points naturally.

This doesn't have to be an actual 1/day thing or be so easily quantified, by the way; like I said, this was just gross oversimplification.

we could play into that a bit in that Ocellus might actually think of Silverstream (or maybe even the rest of the Young 6 too) as a sort of sibling

I like this!

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One other quick thing: I'm a bit leery of "team moms" or dedicated "voice of reason" type characters in a group since that sometimes carries the connotation of them made to look like they're (virtually) always in the right and the others are therefore made to look dumb for not listening to them when that keeps happening.

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Detective Ocellus is on the case! We should totally work in Clue somehow.

It was Colonel Mustard! In the library! With the lead pipe!

Never actually played Clue--been meaning to learn.

No, I wasn't thinking "idiots", so much as they were only trained for what they needed to do and so things that might be pretty simple for an average pony or griffon aren't necessarily in the wheelhouse of an average changeling. Principally I was thinking of this actually manifesting in the form of the changelings having a very low literacy rate. Probably not full illiteracy, but a lot of changelings might only be operating at like an elementary-school level.

See, that's precisely what I'm talking about, because I don't buy that. Surely the changelings have their own writing systems they used within the hive (unless you wanna go the IRL bug route and say they use...pheromones or whatever instead...but I'd still argue that only goes so far--try conveying math with pheromones, and yes that still applies because they still use magic, and the show's made it clear that math of some sort still applies to that field), so surely they'd at least would be fluent in that much. Especially as I can't see Chrysalis being willing to put up with the preventable troubles that would arise because some 'ling just couldn't read a sign, y'know? But seriously, I can't think of any reason why they wouldn't have a written language and still at least be of average literacy on that front. If they can't read Ponish, fine, but surely they're fluent in their own languages.

There's also the consideration that, in order to go around disguising themselves as other creatures, they're going to need to know the respective languages as well, right? I mean, what good is walking the walk if you can't also talk the talk? And so I tend to think that changelings are naturally adept at picking up other languages faster and easier than you'd expect from just about anyone else--it strikes me as a natural consequence of whatever form of evolution that produced the whole "shapeshifting into others to survive" thing that all changelings naturally have, regardless of what they actually do with it in and out of the hive.

That doesn't mean they automatically know every language in existence of course, because they still have to take the time to learn it. They can just do so super quick and easy, because they had a base evolutionary need to. Easy enough that it wouldn't be unrealistic for even the changelings that were always staying at home to be fluent in whatever languages they were exposed to in that environment, or that they can quickly pick up others as they come to be exposed to them should that change.

This would still mean that to replenish Love Points and allow them to use magic on a regular basis the way ponies and other creatures can, though, then they'd still need to parasitically feed on other creatures fairly regularly.

Well, to put it simply, I figured that when they reformed, they went from parasitic to symbiotic--e.g. the emotive producer gets a changeling friend, and the changeling friend can glean off enough of the voluntarily given excess from the emotive producer to stay fed.

I mean, surely it's easier to get enough love to survive if its freely given rather than taken by force, as it was done in the old days.

But like I said, I'm not going to be that much of a stickler over it in this case, so if y'all wanna go a different route on this point, I won't stand in the way of that.

I guess I just still like the idea of the changelings still having to feed off of emotions to survive like before, they just go about it a totally different, and arguably better, way of doing so than before.

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Actually, this reminds me of something I really liked from "Hearth's Warming Club": Changelings are professional mimics and (formerly) parasites. So it'd make sense that they'd borrow or outright steal ideas and concepts from other cultures rather, like with Hearth's Warming itself. Perhaps this can be part of the identity crisis Changelings supposedly have?

In any event, I can believe that Changelings don't have a written language of their own. I can think of a number of cases where a people had their own language but didn't have a written alphabet (not even cuneiform), even going into the 20th century. Granted, these were usually peoples of much different cultural levels, pre-industrial and in some cases, pre-feudal. When the time came they ended up using preexisting letters and alphabets of other cultures when systematizing and working out their own language.

Now, how does this relate to changelings? I don't know what ideas we have about their early development as a species. I can certainly believe they have their own language and way to communicate amongst themselves. But to draw on our history, humans, generally speaking, started developing written languages and keeping records around the development of agriculture and the Neolithic Revolution. Changelings didn't have that, they just stalked and preyed on other beings, so they'd have little need to work out a written language. But once their prey started to, the changelings would've needed to learn it to fit in. Given their propensity for stealing from other cultures and the need to imitate others, being literate in the language of the ones they're replacing is essential. But that also means there'd be no real impetus or need for changelings to have a written language of their own, using ponyish for their needs.

At least, that'd be my take.

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Surely the changelings have their own writing systems

I'm sure they do, or at least I'm sure that they write - but at the same time given how Chrysalis likely ran the Hive I don't imagine being particularly literate was a priority. Your typical worker or soldier wasn't exactly expected to be able to give a book report on The Brothers Kamazov or the like. Keep in mind that the level of literacy in a typical modern Western civilization is pretty far above what is actually necessary to survive in the modern world. In America for example the typical adult reads at about an 8th grade level, but to actually survive in America you could probably get by with a 4th or 5th grade reading level. I was thinking that changelings would hover around there.

Again, that doesn't mean that they're stupid, just uneducated (or rather under-educated). And it wouldn't apply to infiltrators who were expected to make a habit of infiltrating pony society. It just might mean, for example, that Ocellus might be able to read better than her parents, if her parents weren't infiltrators.

I mean, surely it's easier to get enough love to survive if its freely given rather than taken by force, as it was done in the old days.

Sure, but you have to figure that ponies and others might still be standoffish around changelings, at least for now while they still adjust to the new paradigm. Which would mean in the short term at least, without infiltrators, changelings would still be suffering from gathering less love than they did under Chrysalis. You'd have to have changelings who specifically were going out to openly gather love and then return to the Hive but with gathering food still being their primary goal - which might stand in the way of their ability to make real friends.

Alternatively there'd have to be a pretty big changeling diaspora from the Hive so that there were fewer mouths to feed there and changelings moving into other locations in order to see to their own needs.

Again, I do like what you're going for...but I just can't see the logistics of it working out without at least some fundamental change to how changelings biologically consume love.

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Given their propensity for stealing from other cultures and the need to imitate others, being literate in the language of the ones they're replacing is essential. But that also means there'd be no real impetus or need for changelings to have a written language of their own, using ponyish for their needs.

I can roll with that. It does make a degree of sense that the changeling society would be more composed of bits and pieces of everybody else's than they would developed from scratch on their own...though there is an odd hint here and there they might still, hidden behind the scenes but never really explored in the show...and I still kind of like the idea that they have their own developed culture and such too...but oh well.

I suppose it's not like we're planning to give an in-depth analysis on changeling society throughout this, right?

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In America for example the typical adult reads at about an 8th grade level, but to actually survive in America you could probably get by with a 4th or 5th grade reading level. I was thinking that changelings would hover around there.

A 4th or 5th grade (or to better simplify it, what I'd call a "young adult" level) of reading level (if not other basic fields too--math and the such) for the average changeling I could live with. Like I tried to convey before, it's not like I expect the average changeling to be as well educated as the likes of Ocellus, but I also think they would still have something that would pass as a general education to be as educated as...say...Rainbow Dash--not the most intelligent mare out there (except for flying obviously, but overlooking that for this example) but certainly far from uneducated at the same time, or incapable of making up the difference herself should she ever choose to.

Though I still feel like the changelings on a whole are more intelligent than this might convey to the average reader, and that's something I still want to emphatically avoid, because I do believe they are, as a species, as intelligent, if not more so, than the average pony. So if we're doing this, I'd like it clearly conveyed to the reader so there's no chance of confusion on their part on this.

Sure, but you have to figure that ponies and others might still be standoffish around changelings, at least for now while they still adjust to the new paradigm.

I dunno...even as early as in "Celestial Advice" (which pretty much immediately followed their reformation) it seemed like the reformed changelings had little to no issue getting along with the ponies, background or leading, and both sides seemed eager to do so and welcoming of the chance. Ponies, after all, are eternally friendly and generally quick to trust (sometimes to a fault, but we're talking changelings at the moment), and changelings didn't seem like an exception once they had clearly demonstrated that they had reformed. The only such exceptions post-reformation that I can think of off hand was Pharynx (which was purely unique to him) and a couple instances after Ocellus came to the school where the subject was broached...but otherwise were largely non-events--Ocellus never had much real issue fitting in with the rest that was ever shown. So I'm not sure that would've really been as a big a problem as you suggest.

...though I'm one to talk, seeing I've written fanfics that revolve around this very point...but let's not get into that.

Again, I do like what you're going for...but I just can't see the logistics of it working out without at least some fundamental change to how changelings biologically consume love.

Considering that the show more just established that they can consume love but never really explained how that works, I admit I don't really see how that's all that much of an issue.

But yeah, if everybody else is going to think otherwise on the matter of changeling feeding, then I'm willing to fall in line on it.