I was thinking today about a possible story idea--I've always figured Gallus to be like how other griffons often seem to be portrayed, very conscious about their money scrimping and saving every little bit they can get away with when buying, but then are basically like wheeler-dealers when selling--a sort of mix between Scrooge McDuck and the Ferengi, if you will. (Heck, I even had an idea that it's established that the school had a "friendship and economics" test once, and that thanks to that shrewd business knowledge, Gallus managed to get the best score in the class, beating out even Ocellus [though only by a hair]). The rest of the Young Six don't really strike me as being as savvy with their own finances though, and this occasionally rubs Gallus the wrong way.

Then, in a chance encounter, Gallus crosses paths with Flim and Flam, in the area for some new scheme of theirs, and despite having heard of the two brothers before, Gallus finds them to be kindred spirits in terms of their business sense, and Flim and Flam are likewise interested in Gallus's own skills in the field and seek to make use of that for their own end. This leads to Gallus getting recruited into their scheme (pitched in such a way that it's made to seem innocent as usual) and Gallus, eager to show off doing something he's good at, dives right into it and maybe starts getting carried away in the process.

Exactly what Flim and Flam are really up to and why though, I don't know, but I figure whatever it is, it's Cozy who ultimately chooses to step up and confront Gallus about the matter and convince him how Flim and Flam were only trouble, claiming she does this for her own usual selfish reasons ("I'm not going to let those two use you like this! That's my job!"), but we could use it as a chance to imply that all those friendship lessons might actually be sinking in for Cozy and that she did it as a "friend" (term used loosely of course, but still applicable enough to make the point). Could also be the point where Gallus starts being swayed to the idea of Cozy possibly changing for the better too.

7290105
Had a thought--what do you think Starlight would think of them having an overnight sleepover at said Treehouse one weekend? Think she'd allow that?

If she does, then there's another plot idea right there: the Young Six are going to have a sleepover at the Treehouse, but then Cozy finds out about it and wants in for whatever reason (she claims innocent reasons, but of course the suspicious think she's up to something, and so on).

7290652

Gallus crosses paths with Flim and Flam

I really like this idea. It's got a lot of good dimensions - Gallus versus his past; Cozy has the chance to show growth; old foes versus a newer generation.

7290652
I could get behind the sleepover idea.

On the subject of who's dorming where and so on, I realized I've been making plans when going to write that Gallus and Sandbar might still be bunking together when that's not necessarily guaranteed at this point anymore. It's not essential that I have them doing so, but it'd also help work to my advantage if they do, in the sense it'd help simplify a few details.

Which is when I got an idea--it's popularly assumed Gallus and Sandbar have already been bunking together in the same dorm up to now, but it occurred to me that's just fan assumption. We actually have no evidence showing that's to be the case, so since we were talking about shaking up living arrangements anyway, what if we assume Gallus and Sandbar had been bunking with somebody else (say some background character student, or if we want to go the non-gender segregated route, with one of the girls) prior to now, but for this series, decide to try bunking together for the first time for our little series of stories?

If not, can I ask we work towards sorting out who's bunking with who sooner rather than later, if only for my and other's reference, moving forward?

7292619
I can dig it! I’ve actually reached a point in the pilot story where it’s being discussed. I’ve been assuming we’ll at least start with what Trinary suggested: Yona/Silverstream, Ocellus/Smolder, and Gallus/Sandbar. I’d written that the last two had already been roomies but it wouldn’t be any effort to change that and might actually make the scene work a little better.

I’d phrased it as an experiment the school is doing for its junior-year students. Starlight let them all know via letters over the Summer.

I’d also included a line that for now the students are going to be separated by sex (“Makes sense. Otherwise we might end the school year with a larger student body then we started it with.” — Smolder), but those restrictions might be loosened later.

7292619
I’m on board with this idea. It also gives a natural arc to Gallus and Sandbar getting on each others’ nerves. They start with the excitement of rooming together for the first time (”Bro-room! It’ll be awesome!”) but the shine wears off as the year progresses.

7292629 7293123
All right, I'll proceed on with all this in mind then.

“Makes sense. Otherwise we might end the school year with a larger student body then we started it with.” — Smolder

Can I just take a moment to say just how much that's a perfect line for Smolder to say?

7293168 7293123
This is specifically what I've written up in the rough draft:

“Yeah, nah, I can keep it together,” Gallus said. He rubbed his eyes and then forced himself into a proper sitting position, stretching his arms and wings out and popping his joints. “Besides, what dorm would I be heading to? Didn’t Counselor Starlight say something about switching up the dorm arrangement this year?”

“Headmare Starlight,” Ocellus corrected, “but yes. Juniors can pick who we room with, and we’re encouraged to change it in Winter and Spring.”

“Also has to be same-sex,” Smolder said. “Makes sense, since otherwise we’d end the school year with a larger student body then we started it with…”

Gallus let out a single “ha!”, while most of the rest of the table started blushing fiercely. Smolder took a long, triumphant sip of tea.

“W-well, aside from that…” Ocellus continued, looking to Yona, her roommate for the past two years. “I was thinking of rooming with Smolder to start with, to get into the spirit of things. The two of us discussed it on the train ride down. Not that I haven’t loved being your roommate! But…well, you don’t mind, do you?”

Yona shook her head. “Yona had Ocellus as roomie for two years already. Yona not possessive.”

“Ooh, does that mean that we can be roomates?” Silverstream asked. When Yona nodded, she let out a chirp of joy and leapt from her seat, doing a summersault in the air before flying over and setting herself down atop Yona’s back, pawing at the blanket she always wore a few times. “I’m gonna sleep up here every night! It’s so comfy!” She lay down and hugged Yona even as she nestled into the blanket.

Yona chuckled, looking up at Silverstream. “Yona glad to share dorms with Silverstream, but Silverstream can’t sleep on Yona…” Silverstream’s beak quivered, and Yona chuckled laughed again, “…every night.”

“You’d make Sandbar jealous,” Smolder and Gallus said at the same time.

“Guys!” The other four exclaimed, blushes returning in full force.

Gallus just managed to lift a fist and bump Smolder’s own. He downed another long sip of coffee, and couldn’t help but spin it around in his claws once setting it back down. Ove the past two years he’d roomed with a couple of different ponies, neither of whom were bad colts, really, but he hadn’t really connected with them the same way he had with these five.

He cleared his throat. “So, uh, Sandbar,” he said without looking up, “were you thinking of switching up your roommates, or…?”

“Are you kidding?” Sandbar threw his hooves wide. “I’d love to! I was about to ask you if you wanted to!”

Gallus’s exhaustion kept him from doing what Silverstream had done…which meant he instead got to play the role of Yona as Sandbar threw his hooves around him and hugged him. “It’s gonna be great, dude!”

So far the big things we've discussed in this thread have been: the new Elements, rooming arrangements, the Treehouse and some scattered episode ideas. There was something I had raised earlier but it kinda got overlooked in the shuffle.

Since RDD's thought was that the new Elemental virtues were sort of transmutations from the old ones, there would also be a corresponding personal, individual connection between each of the Student Six with a member of the Mane Six.

Rarity and Ocellus
Rainbow Dash and Smolder
Fluttershy and Sandbar
Applejack and Yona
Pinkie Pie and Silverstream
Twilight Sparkle and Gallus

I guess the idea is that the Mane Six would be faculty supervisors or something of that sort to their respective Student. I was of two minds on this. On the one hand, I didn't want this to become Tiny Toons where the Mane Six just had a junior version of themselves to teach (since I thought that pigeonholed the characters a bit). But on the other, I also did like seeing the Mane Six show more of their mentoring side to the students (something the show utterly defaulted on displaying) and it is natural that that certain Students would gravitate to specific Mane teachers.

I already wrote a story dealing with Rainbow and Smolder bonding, but what other ideas do people have in this vein?

The only caveat I'd offer is that this mentor-mentee set-up shouldn't disqualify a good story idea that has a different Mane and Student pairing, just because they aren't the designated mentor or something.

7294844
I believe ThatGuyVex is pursuing a Yona and Applejack story that's also going to involve Cozy Glow; it's one of the ideas I suggested, that Yona is going to try to get through to Cozy with good ol' fashion work ethic and, since she is a small pony and can't really smash things, helping out on an apple farm seems like a good substitute.

The School needs more teachers. This just occurred to me as I was realizing that the School is going to be adding an entire new class. If the Student Six are juniors, and the former freshmen are now sophomores, that means that there's a new freshman class. Even if class sizes are quite small, and they do seem to be, the school is still going to be increasing its student body by about 50%

Any particular objections to Doctor Hooves and Octavia, at least? They did very well with the whole quest for Vice-Headmare, and the reasons for them bowing out from that episode could be excused or glossed over.

I also think we'd need a few more ponies, though. They'd be minor characters and don't have to 1:1 match up with the Mane-6, it's more just for the sake of my sanity and also to give a sense that the school is growing. Since they're largely in the background as well they should probably be principally drawn from background or one-off ponies and not, like, Tempest Shadow or somepony we'd expect to have do major things.

Some background pony candidates that spring immediately to mind include Lyra and/or Bon Bon, Thunderlane, Vinyl Scratch, and Minuette. We could also use ponies that were the focus in one-off episodes, like Moondancer or Silver Shill.

7295255

They'd be minor characters and don't have to 1:1 match up with the Mane-6, it's more just for the sake of my sanity and also to give a sense that the school is growing.

Well, in that case, do they even need to be explicitly identified, or even be a preestablished character? We could always just mention in passing that there were new teachers but not say who. Or we could just devise totally new characters to fill in the roles instead too, if we need to.

Also, who says they have to even be ponies? Since the student body is going to be diversifying, why not diversify the teachers too?

Sunburst and/or Trixie could also be helping fill in as teachers if they aren't already.

That said, of the established background characters you suggest, none really jump out at me. It did always annoy me how the Mane 6 were allowed to still do all that they did and teach classes too without much obvious scheduling conflict--I don't think we need to add to it by throwing in more characters that would only have that same problem, so Whooves and Tavi's reasons for refusing the chance before ought to still stand, and we've already got one Wonderbolt teacher, we don't really need another in the form of Thunderlane (or else you really gotta ask--do the Wonderbolts really have so little to do most of the time that they can spare two of their flyers at the same time continuously like that?). Vinyl just doesn't strike me as a good teacher. I feel like there's cause to pause on Lyra and Bon Bon because of the possible SMILE connection to them both that I can't help but feel like readers would try and read too much into regardless of whether or not we do anything with it... and also because Lyra is...well...Lyra. Silver Shill just feels like too underdeveloped a character who didn't really appear anywhere beyond his one episode. Moondancer and Minuette I suppose could work, but...I don't know, I just don't feel sold on either of them.

Honestly, Tempest strikes me as a better fit than most of these other alternatives, so I don't know why you aren't already putting her at the top of the list. We already know she's all in for spreading friendship after the movie, and getting the chance to teach it would achieve that same goal. Plus, I expect Tempest would end up being seen as the "tough" teacher because of her blunt personality, so that could open up some story potentials if we wanted to too.

7295363

Well, in that case, do they even need to be explicitly identified, or even be a preestablished character?

Probably not technically, but I'm writing a "start of the year speech" scene for Starlight Glimmer taking over as headmare, with the Mane-6 there while the school is watching, and it seemed like a good time to introduce new teachers. This is also where Cozy Glow is going to be reintroduced to the school.

Also I completely forgot that Thunderlane was a Wonderbolt, otherwise I wouldn't have suggested him...

7295384
Eh, you could always just have the Young 6 zone out for most of the speech, only perking back up when they hear "Cozy Glow" and start going all "wait, what?!"

More seriously, unless we plan to actually do something with said new teachers beyond make a passing mention of them, then I really don't think there's much need to be all that specific about them, since for the reader's point of view, it's not going to matter all that much. If we start getting specific on who they are and why they're a teacher now, though, then I feel like that makes us obligated to at least make some use of them later on, scenes where they actually play a noteworthy role, even if the scene's just fillerish stuff.

In any case, I seriously do think that if we're adding in new teachers, then let's throw in some non-ponies as well (or at least "ponies" that aren't the usual unicorn, earth, or pegasi--maybe a crystal pony or bat pony even). Autumn Blaze comes to mind. Zecora is another. And again, we can always just invent new characters if we need to. Maybe everybody coming together to whip Chryssi, Tirek, and Cozy's butts in the finale inspired a lot of other creatures to start embracing friendship too to the point they could now be teacher material too--changelings, griffons, maybe even a dragon (though admittedly, the dragons feel like a stretch unless they've already had prolonged contact with Equestria like Spike or Smolder). You get the idea, though.

Further, the more I think about it, the more I think Tempest is an obvious choice for a teacher.

7295384
7295363

A couple of disparate points:

We need to decide if we want to handle the School in a 'realistic' manner that takes the outside lives, careers (and qualifications or lack thereof) of the teachers into account or if we want to keep it true to the show which, clearly, did not care about addressing that particular elephant in the room.

We're already going to have the Mane Six (or at least the ReMane 5) still be at the School. There's been some thought given to making this a period of transition for the remaining Mane cast members to step back from teaching at the School by the end of the season (or, by my preference, when the first class i.e. the Student Six graduate). But since the ReMane 5 still ARE there, I don't think including other named minor characters with outside lives is an issue, especially since that would eliminate anyone who isn't already full-time teacher (and Cheerilee has her own school and students).

As for having Starlight, Sunburst and Trixie teach--they're administrators. Admins, at least at the schools where I've worked, do not teach. If one thinks it's a stretch for ponies with other careers to also teach at the School, then the admins would similarly be far too busy to actually teach classes themselves (except perhaps once in a very blue moon).

Having a bunch of OCs teaching isn't too appealing. I'd rather develop the new students RDD was thinking of introducing without also having to deal with teachers, even minor ones. It's an interesting point Scyphi raises about getting more non-pony teachers, but I'm a bit biased since my own story had a whole shebang about encouraging the leaders of non-pony races to send more of their people to the School next semester.

P.S.

Also, Tempest as a teacher is something I've seen done far too much in fanfics already and it has very little appeal to me here, especially since those stories tend to show why she should NOT be a teacher.

7295412
I thought I...huh, I'd actually intended to mention Zecora in the first place anyway.

If we want to avoid background ponies and instead go with "bigger" names, then I can get behind at least Zecora, Autumn Blaze, and Tempest Shadow. Tempest might actually be a good choice as well given what we saw of Gallus' future in "The Last Problem". Something had to inspire him in that direction - and Raugos, at least, already had some thoughts.

7295429
I've seen a few fics with Tempest as a teacher. I'm really not in favor of it.

While we could probably pile a bunch of the named locals on, there's also another solution: Canterlot High has a stable of named (but frequently not visibly appearing) teachers that could easily be used.

7295428

As for having Starlight, Sunburst and Trixie teach--they're administrators. Admins, at least at the schools where I've worked, do not teach.

Ah ah ah! If we follow the show's logic on this as you suggested, then that won't apply to the School of Friendship, because ALL of the school staff (administrator or otherwise) were all shown to have taught a class (or two or three) at some point. Usually only where there was a gap that needed filling (excepting Twilight, the headmare, who just regularly taught at least one class anyway), but that's why I suggested it--we have gaps we need filling and it was a continuation of the show's own logic.

(Also, I question whether or not Trixie, as student counselor, really counts as an administrator )

Not saying they have to teach, though. Again, my point was more whether or not we really needed to get too specific about the new teachers if they're only getting mentioned in passing at most, and thought that was one alternative that was worth considering then...if that's really all the role the new teachers are needed to fill.

If we decide we want to do more with the new teachers than that though, then yeah, absolutely let's bring in new characters other than Sunburst, Starlight, Trixie.

In fact, I'm rather for the "realistic" approach to this instead of "show logic"...BUT only if we're going to do something worthwhile with it. Otherwise just sticking with show logic would probably be easier and simpler.

I largely stand by my arguments against to some of the possible teachers I listed earlier though. But if I'm clearly overruled on any of them, I won't fight it.

Largely same deal with the OCs--if they aren't really playing a significant role in anything in the long run, then whether they're OCs or not isn't going to matter all that much. However, even if they ARE playing a significant role, then I'd still argue we shouldn't be afraid to pop in one or two, especially if we aren't coming up with quite enough preestablished characters that can fill those needed roles instead.

I stand by the non-pony teachers idea because to me, that's what the whole school's about--friendship is for everybody, not just the ponies, and can be taught to or taught by everybody too. Plus, it'll help curtail chances for any impressions of "pony supremacy" getting accidentally made, because we can't have that. Honestly, having the school run by an all-pony staff is probably already pushing it.

7295457
Hmm...

7295461
Hey, Spike was there!

7295432
I adamantly disagree. I think the reason Tempest ends up in that role so often in other fics is because she's just such a good fit for the role, it seems foolish to not use her in such a role.

So yes, reiterating my support for using Tempest as one of the new teachers.

7295457
True!...though that'd mean Cranky's included as well, which might be a problem, seeing we already saw him trying to substitute teach at the Friendship School, and it didn't go well.

I suggest the background CHS teachers because there's an obvious need for there to be 'a staff', but the vast majority don't have any story role. We don't need a deep lore built up around the math teacher when it's just "We were in math class before this, <X> is frustrating". A name and maybe a vague physical description (tribe/coat/mane) will suffice for most of them. Actual notable roles, we can use proper characters but the majority of the staff's not going to even have lines.

7295470
Hey, Cranky's gotta do something with his time! Besides, he's a retired adventurer. Outside the Pillars and the Elements, he's probably the most qualified in town.

7295473 (and everybody else)
Since TCC56 has a good point, I've tracked down a list of the teachers shown to teach at CHS. Some, like Granny Smith, probably can be dismissed off the bat for our purposes, but that still leaves a fair number for us to work with.

Linkity-Link!

7295467
Ha, I guess that goes to show something, me automatically grouping Spike with the rest of the ponies like that.

Overlooking that little oversight on my part though, I think my point still stands.

7295461
[q]Ah ah ah! If we follow the show's logic on this as you suggested, then that won't apply to the School of Friendship, because ALL of the school staff (administrator or otherwise) were all shown to have taught a class (or two or three) at some point.[/q]

That was my point. XD

If it's okay to have admins who logically shouldn't be free to teach classes, then it shouldn't be too much of a stretch for other Ponyvillians to pitch in and teach.

As for non-pony teachers, we're might end up getting back into realistic vs. canon stuff. The goal should definitely be to diversify the student body and the staff, but that doesn't mean its practical to start out that way, especially since friendship is a new thing to a number of the species involved (dragons, changelings, griffons) so them teaching friendship is a bit of a stretch when they still have students learning about it for the first time who haven't even graduated from the school yet. I also think it's more interesting, personally, to see the Students and the founding staff make preparations for diversifying the School than to just start it off with it already having happened.

I think there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that the staff is all-pony* to start with since (a) this was a pony initiative and (b) geography, it's located in Equestria and some of the other races are just too remote or isolationist.
*I know they had Cranky Doodle substitute that one time--granted, that episode depicted him as a jerk out of nowhere for no real reason. Also Spike, but he barely counts.

BUT, having said all that, I wouldn't object to one of the ongoing subplots being to bring in more non-ponies as both students and teachers. As I mentioned, that was the impetus for my story.

Here's my conception: the international members of the Student Six (i.e. everyone besides Sandbar) can be seen as a vanguard, a test case. For the School, this was in terms of 'how can we meet the needs of non-pony students' (easier to do it with just one dragon, changeling, etc. than start out with a dozen of each). For the homelands of the Students in question, the Students have had the chance to go and bring some of that friendship knowledge back to their homelands to convince others of why getting involved in a 'pony school' is a good idea.

It would be best, for new incoming students, if new yaks, changelings, dragons, etc. showed up while the Student Six were still at school as upperclassmen to help with the transitioning. But I think it's too much for the Student Six to deal with that AND Cozy Glow this year. I think it can be explained easily enough that things were seen as a bit too chaotic dealing with the cleanup around the Legion of Doom for the other lands to send more students this semester--leading into that big push in my story to get the dragons, changelings, etc. to send more students next year since that'll be the last year the Student Six would still be around (if we do a four year-type school). Or, at the least, that bringing in more dragons, changelings, yaks, etc. should occur later on in the season, like after another semester or two.

Likewise, this year we'll have a kirin, diamond dog, buffalo students (I'd argue to have only one of each) to be test cases for their respective peoples.

7295500
True...but conversely there's also the point that the school's already been in operation for about two years or so (if I'm reading the start/end of a school year as presented in show correctly, plus the logical time gap between the finale and the start of our series) and has already proven itself capable, especially as it was the school's own students that recruited everybody together for that showdown with the Legion of Doom in the first place. That, and how well everybody working together like that was I think would be of more immediate influence to others than you give it credit for. Honestly, it's probably miraculous they don't suddenly have a whole flood of creatures wanting in on the school deal, having already seen first hand the good it can do and now having an idea what good it'd be for them.

So I think it's definitely not out of the realm for at least a few newcomers to be coming to the school, student and teacher alike.

As for some species maybe not being ready for such a role yet...well, that was why I was iffy about the dragons almost as I was suggesting them in the first place. But most of the changelings seem already three-fourths of the way there post-reformation and already have a leader who's been actively been promoting them to adopt friendship even before the school's founding, so I could see one of the elder changelings being in a spot where they could be recruited to teach a specific class by this point in time. I'd like to think there'd be at least one griffon who could do that by now too, considering Griffonstone's actually gotten a fair amount of exposure to friendship by now. And if they can just randomly produce Gabby of all griffs even without that still, then I can't rule out there possibly being others out there...but at the same time I can let the griffons slide on this outing too.

But it was also why I suggested the non-ponies that I did anyway--Autumn Blaze has already proven herself capable and, by show logic at least, would be at least as qualified as the other teachers already on staff. And Zecora's been teaching all of the Mane 6 little life lessons on friendship and beyond for years already now, so she's definitely qualified--and already fairly well known by most of the preexisting staff and probably even some of the students too.

I'm not saying we need them to play big roles (unless we happen to devise an idea that incidentally benefits from it), but if we're adding new teachers to the staff, I say now's the time to start trying to diversify at least a little.

My suggestion at this point then, since we all seem to be of mixed minds on it, is to have a mix of all of the above: take a couple from the CHS list, a couple of already well known background ponies as RDD originally suggested, and then maybe a couple non-ponies. Altogether, that'll probably give us enough new teachers to work with, and then we can go from there.

7295500 7295528
Incidentally, notes I put together for those other students, but their role in what I'm writing is pretty much to just be fodder for Cozy so it's all subject to change.

Frosty Quartz and Cloudy Spinel
Crystal pony twins, a colt and a filly respectively a touch younger than Sandbar. The crystal ponies were slow to come to the School of Friendship mostly due to the thousand-year gap in their learning curriculum. Otherwise they're largely considered a "natural" inclusion since they're another type of pony. Frosty's talent is ice sculpture and Cloudy's is gem cutting.

• A touch on the stiff and formal side with people they've just met, but loosen up quickly.
• Mild cold adaptation, in the Canadian sense (shorts and a T-shirt drinking a slurpy in the middle of January) rather than the actual physiological sense
• Crystal pony magic is subtle and subconscious, not active. It's emotion-based and basically means they give off literal "vibes" of whatever emotion they're feeling. This is not mind control, it's just that, when they're happy, you're a bit more likely to be happy. Or whatever other emotion you care to apply.
• Favorite class is Professor Rarity's for both of them.

Long Path
A young buffalo bull about the size of Yona. Much more conservative and staid in personality, probably the best comparison is Big Mac. I want to avoid Native American shaman or spirit quest stereotypes like the plague, although I suppose him being conservative and staid is one in and of itself...unlike Yona he doesn't particularly want to smash anything, which Yona finds weird. He also kind of misses his herd more than he lets on.

• Mild claustrophobia, like Gallus.
• Has always had difficulty making friends with others. Prefers to be by himself but is kidding himself about how lonely he can be.
• Buffalo traits are more-or-less the same as yak ones, although perhaps more horizontally focused than vertically, i.e., it's in the charge rather than the stomp.
• Favorite class is Professor Rainbow Dash's

Summer Light
Excitable kirin filly who's mostly glad to be talking again. She'll talk your ear off about anything and everything. Less random than Pinkie or Silverstream, just eager to regurgitate everything she knows. Occasionally goes off to somewhere safe to let off some fire as a nirik. I still kinda' want to imply that kirins are female and niriks are male and as a result has difficulty interacting with males (in the sense of constantly expecting them to flip out over nothing and being surprised or congratulatory when they don't).

• Positively devours books. Not literally. Okay sometimes just a nibble.
• Just as fireproof as Smolder even as a kirin. Can "pick up" fire in her hooves or with telekinesis (a la pegasi interacting with clouds) and juggle it around, and even if she focuses make small flames.
• Tiny bit obsessive about making sure she gets time to "play with fire" at the same times throughout the day.
• Favorite class is Magic

Bella
A diamond dog b...ahem...female. Does not want to be here. Does not want to have anything to do with the School of Friendship. She is being forced into this against her will. Also won't stop digging holes to places. Doesn't like her dorm room and does everything she can to sleep in a burrow instead, frequently has to be lured out by being offered gems.

• She does not want to be here.
• She has no hidden depths, aside from the literal depths she's hiding as she tries to literally undermine the school and which Starlight has to keep filling in.
• She is 100% a stereotypical diamond dog.
• ...okay the classes with Pinkie Pie where she gets to eat stuff are kind of fun.

7295528
I just think it changes the dynamic too much to have the Student Six not be the only dragon, changeling, yak, etc. at the School. There's a lot of potential to be had with them being the only non-ponies at the School (besides the three new characters RDD cooked up) and I'm loathe to lose that. I'm less determined when it comes to having a kirin student and Autumn Blaze teaching because, well, it's Autumn Blaze. I can't say no to that. A big hearty YES! to including Zecora on the staff.

IF, and that's a mighty big if, we really want to go the route of having more dragons, more yaks, etc. as students and/or teachers during this season, then I am adamant that should be a development that occurs later on and not something we start off with. Not only because of how it impacts my story, but also because it leaves us with too many changes for the Student Six to properly assimilate all right off the bat. We should get to seem them grapple with what it's like being the only dragon, changeling, etc. and how they use it to relate to the new students---and then later how they grapple to NOT being the only dragon, changeling, etc. and what it's like having wider social circles among 'their own kind' suddenly being at the School, as part of the student body and on the staff, etc.

7295539
I like them!

7295555
Incidentally, Frosty and Cloudy are actual crystal pony foals we've seen in the show, albeit they're fan-made placeholder names. If we don't like that I can easily change their names.

Long Path has reddish-brown fur, like the buffalo on the left in this pic. I had actually almost named him Red Harvest until it occurred to me that, one, that's the kind of name you give someone who kills for a living; and two, it was the name of the Native American character from the 2016 The Magnificent Seven remake.

Summer Light I was seeing as having the color scheme of S09E26 Unnamed Kirin #2, from "The Last Problem". Nice little call forward.

Finally, Bella I was imagining as looking basically exactly like the middle diamond dog in this pic, which is a feminized version of Spot.

7295255
Before we continue much further on the teacher debate...about how many new teachers do you think we need altogether, RDD? Ballpark estimates are okay. I'd assume not many more than six, max, for the same reasons Trinary has said--it'd be too many new characters to establish at once and would detract from the intended story arc.

7295590
That begs the question: how big should the school be as a whole? How many students?

Incidentally, I was very weirded out that the finale had two really young foals (the ones speaking to the pegasi and unicorns). Should we try to establish or homogeonize the rough age group of students at the School of Friendship?

7295528

As for some species maybe not being ready for such a role yet...well, that was why I was iffy about the dragons almost as I was suggesting them in the first place.

Most wouldn't fit, but I could see one or two.

Torch getting brought in to do a 'History of Dragons' is plausible - he's retired so he's got free time, and the class would boil down to 'we need you to go talk about how awesome dragons are', which fits.

I also could see Garble being pulled in to do a poetry class, almost entirely at Smolder's urging.

7295599

That begs the question: how big should the school be as a whole? How many students?

That's probably a question better explored in more depth in the The Layout of the School of Friendship thread, since it'll require some fine tooth analyzing of what we see of the school on the whole in the show.

But judging from other campuses that I've seen (and I've been lucky enough to tour a few, including a couple big name ones in the UK), the School of Friendship is actually on the small size--more the size of a private academy than say that of a big name ivy-league school. As such how many students it can house at a time will be limited: probably only a couple hundred max at a time at first glance, and that's probably estimating high. To house more would require a bigger campus, which raises another problem, because the School of Friendship quite clearly has had no visible additions to it when shown in "The Last Problem," making it no bigger or smaller than at any other time its appeared since its introduction. So in terms of continuity we're basically stuck with that size limit, unless we want to go ahead and fudge canon on that...or assume the nearby Castle of Friendship was adopted as part of the campus after Twilight moved out, seeing it would have plenty of space for both classes and dorms if needed, with a little modification.

7295590
Somewhere between three and five, I was thinking.

7295644
I can't hope to question, let alone match, your efforts at charting out the school's physical parameters and its maximum student capacity. I was trying to think from a writing viewpoint, and given what we've seen in the show, about how big the student body really is. I can't see this as a place teeming with hundreds and hundreds of students (at least, not when it started). I mean, this is a school where the small staff clearly has enough time to engage one-on-one with specific students, so I don't think this is going to be an overcrowded school or anything.

What do people think would, roughly speaking, be a good size to keep things to? 100? 150?

7295645 7295554
Then how about we have these for new teachers: Ms. Harshwhinny, Moondancer, Zecora, and, if we want to go for a full four, Autumn Blaze. That's one teacher picked from the CHS list (Harshwhinny), one or two non-ponies (Zecora or Autumn Blaze), and one of the suggested established background ponies (Moondancer). That should suit all of our needs for this while also being a nice compromise of all of the suggestions we've had for teachers thus far.

It also doesn't have to be explicitly these exact creatures for teachers, but I figure they're probably the logical best choices. Harshwhinny is probably the one most up for debate, but I picked her because she was the one CHS listed teacher that we had visually seen in both FiM and EqG that wasn't also a character that would be already be disqualified for other involvements (e.g. Cheerilee already being a schoolteacher elsewhere, Cranky having already shown in FiM that he might not be well suited for teaching at the Friendship School, etc). Besides, Harshwhinny may be strict, but I can see her teaching at the school decently enough, if given the right subject material.

If we want a full five, then add Tempest to the list. There will be no alternatives for that--you're lucky I showed restraint and didn't suggest her right off the bat instead of Moondancer.

Of course, we could always take inspiration from Lets Do This's "Twilight's Pirate School" (it makes sense in context) and make Tempest the school's truant officer.

7295683
100 to a 150 works for me. Though maybe it shouldn't be such a nice round number? Maybe...138!

7295689
I definitely agree with the four proposed teachers. In fact, totally separate from any EQG stuff, some friends and I have often seen Harshwhinny as the teacher of a finishing school or something similar when the Equestria Games are not in season. Everything about her screams teacher to me, and that's without even touching EQG, as I said.

Moondancer's a great choice since, as she said in Amending Fences, she just researched things for the sake of researching them, rather than applying them to anything. Having her now use her knowledge represents a step forward for her.

Zecora, hells yes, she should've been Twi's local mentor as Faust originally envisioned for her. Autumn Blaze, 'nuff said.

As for Tempest ... look, here's my issue. All the stories I've seen with Tempest taking up a position at the School: "The Substitute Teacher" and "Fit for Command" by Kaipony, "Twilight's Pirate School" and "Detention" by Lets Do This--all of them have her still be this tough-as-nails, scary, military-minded hardass.

And ... I don't like it.

Instead of Tempest continuing through on her arc from the movie, which is to realize just how empty her life as an enforcer was and thus open herself up to friendship, it keeps her in that same wheelhouse because we liked her as a badass. Instead of wanting to try something different with her life after all that went down, most stories with her and the School have her being this same intense, scary badass and because of that, really doesn't fit in with the School and its ethos. She doesn't ever teach about, say, redemption or how being all tough and on your own doesn't actually make your stronger---all she teaches are physical activities (often with a very martial edge) or strategy or other things that I don't think belong at the School of Friendship.

A lot of these stories justify her activities with some message implying that Twilight is optimistic or just flat-out naive, and Tempest is the one truly preparing these kids for the outside world and it feels so very disrespectful to Twilight. It says something when my favorite scene in all of these was in "Fit for Command" when Counselor Starlight called Tempest onto the mat for her strong-arm tactics and flat-out told her that if one more student came into her office with tears in their eyes because of Tempest's horseapples, she'd make sure Tempest would be out of a job right then and there. Now I actually really like Tempest and generally don't like Starlight, but in that scene I wanted to give Glimmy a standing ovation.

I really do like Tempest and I actually like these stories, but they're not something I really want to see more of. Seeing the same tropes and formula used over and over again with her being the badass teacher who is respected and feared is just ... unappealing in the extreme.

I wouldn't mind if she occasionally showed up to offer a calisthenics class, something like "Hearth's Sparring Eve" by Raugos, but I really do not see Tempest as teacher material for the School. Or at least, not in the way she's been readily used to date. If we were to use her in a truly different way, maybe I'd feel differently, but I don't want another rendition of "teaching kids military discipline and battle tactics in gym and equating that with friendship and teamwork."

7295746

As for Tempest ... look, here's my issue. All the stories I've seen with Tempest taking up a position at the School: "The Substitute Teacher" and "Fit for Command" by Kaipony, "Twilight's Pirate School" and "Detention" by Lets Do This--all of them have her still be this tough-as-nails, scary, military-minded hardass.

And ... I don't like it.

Well...maybe this is your big chance to do it differently then. I mean, that's why we discuss these things here, amirite?

But if need be, just sticking with the other four should be fine with me.

7295758
Fair enough!

Also, Tempest is usually SUCH a big character that it's all too easy for her to steal the focus, unintentionally or otherwise. She's a really captivating figure.

7295539
Also, meant to ask: what's your stance on zebras?

7295764
I'm planning on waiting to see what the comics do, I think, to see if there's anything neat we can pull from them. The first of the Season 10 storylines is going to focus on Zecora and going back to the Zebra lands. If it turns out to be bad we can ignore it, though.

7295746
Well, if it helps, the one time I've personally written for Tempest she was very different from what you're describing. Although granted she was in an alternate universe and also we were looking at a somewhat younger Tempest. Still, I am capable of writing her as more than basically the T-800.

Keep in mind, of course, that bringing in guest lecturers for specific topics is a thing. Just because, say, Octavia isn't on staff doesn't mean she can't show up to do a single day class on Music History if need be.

And yeah, personally as much as I love Tempest as a character? I'm not sure she really fits as a full-time teacher.

So I've settled on Harshwhinny, Moondancer, Zecora, and Autumn Blaze as new professors based on what was suggested here. At Trinary's request I'm trying to expand the scene where they're introduced just a bit, mostly to tell what they're actually going to be teaching. Which...hoo boy, it's time to confront the elephant in the room. What this school actually teaches.

In hindsight, perhaps something that I should have considered earlier...actually you know what, no, I'm not taking fault for this, I'm punting the fault straight to the show's creators. But it's the mess we've been left with, so we have to deal with it. Let's get the basics out of the way, what we've definitely observed or heard being taught by each teacher. And not worry about how it's connected to the Elements just yet.

Bizarrely, Rainbow Dash of all ponies has the easiest to identify classes. She's a gym teacher. She teaches sports. Not much exploring needs to be done here.

Fluttershy seems to be teaching a biology class. The "School of Friendship" song from "School Daze" has a bit where Twilight "corrects" Fluttershy's class and we can see spider anatomy and that...circle of evolution thing. Obviously that wasn't how Fluttershy wanted the class to be taught but it does give insight into what it was probably more-or-less about. Fluttershy just instead probably wanted more practical experience in interacting with and learning about animals. Less biology, more like animal care.

Twilight... Rockhoof took over some of her responsibilities in "A Rockhoof and a Hard Place" and said he'd be the theory of defensive magic teacher, and she was teaching about putting Discord in stone where he belongs. That plus the general layout of her classroom makes me think that she was actually teaching magic. To a class with unicorns, yes, but also earth ponies, pegasi, and the Student 6. One presumes that she might have been teaching about things like leylines, magical artifacts, maybe ritual or hedge magic and the like, stuff that could be learned or done by anyone.

Applejack expressly said that she has no idea how to teach honesty. She seems to teach some kind of botany class? She likes apples. Applejack is not a complicated pony.

Rarity has been expressly identified as having a sewing class. But I have to imagine that there's more to it than that. Design? Arts and crafts? Sweatshop?

Pinkie...Clown 101. Yeah I'm gonna need some help on this one. She seemed to also teach music.

I was planning on Zecora having some kind of alchemy or potions class. Moondancer could take over for Twilight in teaching straight-up magic, while Starlight might teach a class more focused on organization or management? Autumn Blaze feels like an obvious shoe-in for a theater class. Harshwhinny...the problem with her is that while I can see her in a number of teaching rolls, they're all, well, legitimate classes.

7299754
Pinkie Pie is obviously teaching a cooking/baking class. I feel like I shouldn't even need to be pointing this out.

You could always have a few teachers teaching classes that focus on specific, more specialized types of magic. You already suggested Zecora teaching an alchemy/potions class (which is exactly what I would've suggested so there you go) which is a sort of specialized magic (arguably), so maybe continue with that line of thought--maybe Applejack or Harshwhinny teaches about Earth pony magic, maybe Starlight teaches a more advanced theoretical magic class (seeing her forte was always inventing new spells and the such, a little less like Twilight, who was more apt at rediscovering already made spells that were forgotten or are lesser known), and so on.

And you could always have a few classes for just general learning subjects, of course, things you'd likely need later in life regardless, like financing and general math and the such--just because it's a school specializing in friendship doesn't mean it doesn't also teach general life skills too. Most schools I know of do that to at least some extent IRL, so why not Equestria too? Besides, I figure the EEA probably would mandate something like that and Twilight probably agreeing to it--the one thing both of those two sides could probably agree fully on.

7299793
7299754

Ugh, the freaking curriculum...this is probably my biggest annoyance with the School set-up in the show. The idea was for the Mane Six to basically teach their respective elements: Honestly, Loyalty, Laughter, etc. (or at least about their own personal experiences and outlook on friendship) but all we ever saw them doing is teaching their respective hobbies or careers: farming, sports, parties, animals, making dresses.

Everything they teach is through the prism of their -own- particular interests and is not really about the topics they're meant to teach. It's so very ... self-centered, for lack of a better term. It's one thing for them to relate their personal experiences with Honesty or Loyalty with the examples of the farm or the Wonderbolts or whatever for some lessons, but we never see them do anything that is NOT about their own personal interests. Mainly because, well, it seems like the writers didn't know how to show them actually 'teaching' the Elemental virtues in a traditional classroom setting. Mostly because, well, you really can't.

So now we're kinda stuck with the fact that there isn't really a way to write the School as it appeared in the show--mostly because it made absolutely no sense, not even a little. A regular, structured school environment with tests and regular homework assignments designed to teach friendship and various virtues? We clearly have to change something to make it somewhat coherent and plausible--the question is what?

We can recast what the Mane Six teach, make it out that Fluttershy is teaching some biology class, Pinkie Pie baking, that sort of thing. But I don't find that too engaging or interesting (speaking purely personally, of course).

I actually -can- see a way, within reason, for the school to teach the Elemental virtues or be more about friendship. Has anyone seen NBC's The Good Place? That show was all about ethics and morality and had a character regularly give classes on various topics and subjects related to that. I can actually see that sort of thing being done with honesty, laughter, etc. However, that would mean a much less structured, more free-floating style of teaching that would look at those subjects from a more philosophical or moral background. Not something with a "right" answer on a test sort of class, necessarily.

I know that'd require dramatically changing the School from what we saw in the show--but we're doing that anyway since, again, the School in the show made no sense. I'd rather see the Mane Six (or ReMane 5, at least) actually teach about loyalty, generosity, etc. than just their own personal hobbies/careers in a new guise.

But I know that's just me and it'd be hard to totally rework the School premise from the ground up. But I just want to put my two cents out there.

7299892
I was never particularly sold on the idea of a school that teaches specifically friendship and only friendship either, and it's probably my only real major criticism of season 8 and 9. I can see why the show's staff thought it the logical course to take given the show's overall themes, but it was quickly clear that teaching friendship wasn't something that translates well to the traditional school setting and one quickly exhausts believable ways to portray that...hence why I suspect the show focused on that much less in season 9 than it did in season 8 (that and it was just so busy tying up loose ends for the finale).

Now, if they had made it a school where they taught friendship and magic, with the friendship aspect being conveyed more through a school motto/environment thing, then that probably would've worked better, without straying too far from the show's overall themes the crew clearly wanted to preserve.

But as you say, to establish all of this would be effectively reworking the whole idea and concept of the school from the ground up to some degree, and seeing this series tends to stay inline with the canon facts of the show regardless, I'm not sure how practical it might be for us to do. Refine the school as it already stands, sure, but completely rework it? Besides, what's specifically being taught in classes doesn't seem like too centric a theme for this series anyway, as most of the stories we've talked about thus far seem to focus more on character development than the details of life in the school, at least in most cases. Obviously, it'll still come up from time to time, but probably not something we need to put too much time and effort into, right?

It's largely why I hadn't already brought this subject up myself. Didn't think this series would be the right time and place to truly explore and develop such a thing.

Yeah, I know it's not terribly practical.

I think part of my annoyance also stems from the show glossing over some key differences. You know, like how they said, "Twilight, you and your friends saved the day from evil monsters! That totally means you're perfectly qualified to lead and govern a country!" or "Starlight! You helped save the day once, OBVIOUSLY that means you're 'beyond' friendship lessons, whatever the hell THAT means" when the two things have little or nothing to do with one another?

Well, I've worked in education for over a decade and it annoys the crud out of me that the show did the same thing with the School. The Elements of Harmony may know a lot about their respective Elements--but that doesn't qualify them to actually -teach- those subjects. Teaching is a skill unto itself and simple knowledge of the subject material (while obviously necessary) is not enough in and of itself. With the exception of Twilight, I really don't see any of them as having a real aptitude for teaching; at least not in a regular, classroom setting. In a different, less-structured environment I think they can grow into the roles; but as-is? Not so much. Even if the Mane Six weren't teaching the Elements or their takes on friendship, but were teaching their areas of interest, I don't think they'd necessary fare well. The fact that, at least some of them, apparently do (not that we really see how) is ... irksome.

It's like seeing a character proclaim that they're qualified to work at NASA because they worked at their dad's autoshop -- and then somehow DOES manage to succeed. The premise is absurd and the fact that it the story justifies this absurdity and validates it is just annoying as heck. I suppose that's why I'd sooner change the 'setting' (so to speak) of the School rather than the subject material the Mane Six teach.

Again, I'm mostly just venting.

7300090

It's like seeing a character proclaim that they're qualified to work at NASA because they worked at their dad's autoshop

Or Armageddon’s premise of “its easier to train oil rig drillers to be astronauts then astronauts to be oil rig drillers”.

Kickass song, though.

7300197
Fun fact: one of the movie's stars pointed that out to the director while filming--reportedly, he was effectively told to shut up and stay out of it in response.