Don’t do the Discord uncover as Grogar thing.

7210458
For me, it failed for four reasons

Luna and Celestia want to retire and be OOC in the sense they are making stranges faces;

Twilight having to return to live in Canterlot to rule Equestria and only see her friends once per moon;

For the trio become stones and not being reformed;

And lastly Make Discord practically fool the princesses, and his friends just for Twilight would be ready for her new duty

7210458
Discord = Grogar was OOC and ridiculous.
The sisters retiring was OOC and ridiculous.
A lot of stuff was OOC and ridiculous.

7210473
Agree

Don't make the sisters retire. Discord's 'plan' is tossed like the garbage it was.

7210458
In all honesty I think it could have been better and maybe having Grogar in it instead of having him be discord in disguised plus this also gives me an idea for an even better version of season 9

7210478
I agree with this completely

7210458

Celestia and Luna retiring was dumb. I always preferred to think of them as gods. they were also reduced from wise to total idiots.

But besides that, I can't really see this as a happy ending for Twilight.

-Twilight wanted to be a mage/scientist and now she never will. She was the only one of the mane 6 to not achieve what she wanted at the start of the series.
-Twilight never expressed any interest in becoming a princess or a politician. None of this was ever her decision and she only ever expressed fear and anxiety towards these roles. She hates formality, ceremony and snobbish ponies. She has no political experience, is prone to panic attack and is not good at all at making these kinds of decisions. This is like the worsts possible job for her. Not to mention she's now isolated from her friends and has to deal with all this mostly on her own.
-The series ends with Twilight choosing political power over her friends. The series is called 'friendship is magic' but in the end friendship is no longer the highest ideal, power is. Which is weird because we had multiple episodes that espoused the exact opposite moral.
-It rewrites Celestia as a manipulator. She clearly planned Twilight to be her successor the whole time but was stringing her along. She told Twilight she'd be learning magic, something Twilight has little need of in her new job, as what now seems like a bait and switch. Can anyone imagine Twilight agreeing to be her protigee if Celestia told Twilight she'd be getting into politics instead? Celestia basically tricked her into becoming an alicorn and then threw this position at Twilight at the last minute without ever even asking.

On another note, I think Fluttercord is kind of stupid. Why did Fluttershy become a chaos broodmother? They're super incompatable and I can't remember a scene where they really seemed to get along.

Also don't like the student six, but that's also a problem with season 8.

Also also, they made Twilight into a terrible Celestia recolor and de-cuted the entire mane 6.

7210458
Y'all know me, I easily hate Season 9 with one primary purpose: The whole Celestia and Luna retiring from Ruling Equestria and passing the ruling down to Twilight Sparkle only arc.

And I will shout it out loud and proud as to why I hate the arc: -gassssssssssssssppppppppppppp- PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope I made that clear. X3

7210484

They're super incompatable and I can't remember a scene where they really seemed to get along.

Uh....you missed a lot of episodes then. Like, ALL the episodes where they have tea parties. I get if you don't ship it, but.....not remembering a single scene where they even get along? Did you even watch any of the episodes with them after Discord was reformed?

7210766

It always seemed really superficial to me. Like, sure they have tea parties and occasionally say they like each other, but I never once felt it. I honestly can't tell you what Fluttershy likes about Discord or vice versa or even what their dynamic as friends is, but I can tell you plenty of reasons they wouldn't get along.

7210772
🤷 Okay. You're entitled to your own opinion. Personally, I ship them. But I'm not here to argue.

As much as I love Tirek and Chrysalis, and Cozy Glow when she's part of the group, I think introducing as the final villains was the peak of this whole "familiar villain" trend within the show. Nobody talks about Stygian because wow, there's not much of substance for that villain. You can tell me his motivation, and I do know his motivation, but motivation alone doesn't make a villain good. Now, what sets up the entire season for failure was the presentation of these three as the primary villains for the season. We already know all their strengths and weaknesses, and there's not a lot of mystery about what is going to happen. Beyond that, all of their varied motivations that might have made sense in the respective episodes they came from are all now flattened to revenge. This might be an unpopular opinion, but I find revenge a tired trope by now, and I am glad of it. The more people tired of seeing revenge in media, maybe they'll realize revenge in reality is just as silly a concept.

In any case, you have two very good independent villains, one annoying little kid, and they're all out for revenge. I thought it was mediocre, but I was looking forward to seeing Grogar do something interesting, since he was knew, he seemed intelligent on how to manipulate the Mane 6, and he was an ancient monster. My mistake. Discord is Grogar is probably the weirdest decision I have ever seen the show make. Did someone write the first two episodes and someone else write the final episodes? See, that would at least make sense if the writers weren't all on the same page. But that really ruined Discord for me. Reformed Discord is all about fun but he also protects his friends while still challenging them to face their own problems, no matter how much they might need him. His fakeout death kind of held the entire point of him as a misled tutor giving morals at inappropriate times. As awkward as that scene was, we didn't need it to be amplified by ten and take center stage for the finale. The point where Discord releases four serious threats to Equestria, regardless of his intentions, tells me he has either learned nothing from friendship, or he is being used as a plot device and therefore, being written without much intelligence.

This is turning into a novel quick, sorry. My final point actually trails back to the Mean 3/whatever their name is. That episode where they went to get the bell? I liked that. I liked that a lot. Because for that episode the villains were the protagonists and it showed me maybe these people who are obsessed with revenge have a bit more going on under the hood. They have the capacity for love and friendship, they might be even craving it. Independently, I love that episode. And it lead me from not caring much about the villains to now I want to see them not reformed, but I want to see them sneak away together at the end of the episode. Living free, living together, doing whatever they want, one step ahead of the law. That's what I personally wanted to see. And it hit me, not when they got turned to stone, but when they started arguing a lot in the finale, that the episode about getting the bell was a temporary deal. That gem I liked among the sea of confusing and weird episodes in Season 9? It was temporary. And lo and behold, the characters I wanted to see get off scott-free were turned to stone and it is portrayed as a punishment that they are all in stone together. It was such a curious decision, getting the audience to like these characters, then turning them to stone. I think that's my main problem with Season 9, questionable decisions and messed up character moments.

7210458
For starters, I would have Starlight Glimmer to be pretending to be Grogar instead of Discord and then have the real Grogar to be the main villain of the series finale.

I dont like Celestia and Luna retiring and OOC to my liking and Twilight visiting her friends once a moon

7211568
THANK YOU! X3

7211708
You're welcome

7210484
Unfortunately Celestia's manipulative behavior started waaaay back in Season 3, what we see now is that trait Flanderized to a large degree all the while keeping Celestia's motherly nature intact.

one thing I would have done in the last seasons is not have twilight leave ponyville! Ponyville is not the same without all the mane 6!

Anyone know what happened to Chryssilis's revenge on Starlight? Because that would have made for a better season arc.

For me, just about everything that has been mentioned so far. Also, this may sound ridiculous and maybe petty, but it’s a personal pet peeve of mine and I have to get it off my chest.
You know how at the end of some cartoons, all the characters randomly laugh for no reason? Well, this show has plenty of that. Especially this season.
The worst one was at the end of The second part of The Ending of The End, where Twilight says that everything is going to be perfect because with her friends by her side, how could it not? Then they all laugh for no reason, The End.

I even made an extended version that lampshades it. I can post it here if that’s okay with you?

7210484

You hit the nail right on the head there with Twilight. I had absolutely no problems with them giving her wings but to pretty much force her into ruling the nation over what her true desires were was messed up.

7231940
Amen Storm. Besides, Becoming a ruler wasn't even what Twilight wanted in the first place. -_-

7231976

I know. I think she would have preferred to become the head of a new science department Celestia would put in place.

This thread’s question is rather uninformed. Season 9 was not where everything went wrong. It was just the cherry on top of the pile of detritus that has been building for years. The only reason just about everyone was infuriated with it was because it was the end of the ride, there was no way to fix anything through the use of future seasons, and it only validated all prior criticisms the hardliners have always derided that have been building up over the prior 7 years. Season 9 received the backlash it did because being the final season shattered the overarching sense of denial the fandom had embraced in the hopes that it would all end well and make their emotional investment in the show worthwhile. To fix season 9, one would have to heavily revise most of the show as far back as the Season 3 premier as that is where the entire decline began. You can’t fix Season 9 without examining the entire path of how it all came to this.

7244232
Yeah well, Twilight didn't even WANTED to be Ruler at all. It's simple as that. -_-

7244288
Exactly.

7244303
Honestly though..... -sigh- I just wish the writers knew better. -_-

7244310
Lack of backlash early on carries a lot of the blame of their complacency.

7244232

7244288
It was Season 5 is where things started to go real bad when it comes to writing. And I even said back then that the show was showing seasonal rot and the fact that the overall writing did not improve at all and the show ended in a insulting brain fart proved me right all the long.

7244321
Got that right.
7244329
Well, we did end up with some great fan favorites even during that point. For example in the Season 8 episode, Fake It 'Till you Make It, we ended up liking two characters in that episode.... aka.... for you; that Male Goth Pony (who is in your avatar pic btw ;3), and for me..... -love sigh- Valley Glamour <3

which will always deserve that rightful name and not Valley Trend, which idiotic Gameloft and the MLP CCG was so foolish at not looking at the preferred name for her. -_-

7244348
Well there were still some good episodes after Season 5. Fake It Til You Make It the episode where my avatar Snow Hope came from was written in the spirit of Season 4. Also that masterpiece of an episode gave us this awesome version of Fluttershy.

7244361
Yep =3

Indeed X3

So just wondering.... of the pegasus pony I showed in my previous reply.... which name do you prefer for her: Valley Glamour or Valley Trend? For me.... Valley Glamour all the way <3

7244370
Valley Glamour.

7244376
Same here <3

7244378
Such a shame that Valley and Snow Hope did not get any more episodes.

7244380
Well.... as you saw in one of my blog posts, Valley Glamour did make a cameo appearance in the episode Growing Up is Hard to Do. ^^

7244438
Oh okay. Oh you what would have been really awesome. This.

7244329
If you’re talking in general episodic writing, I can see where you’re coming from. But when talking about the overarching central plot line, Season 3’s premier and finale locked MLP FiM into a downward spiral that it never recovered from. A spiral that culminated with the series finale.

When the fandom gets split down the middle with just one season finale, there’s always a valid reason behind it. Even if it takes 7 years for everyone to see it.

7244452
Well Season 5 took everything that was awesome and interesting about Season 4 and flushed it down the toilet and severely limited the show's creativity.

7244439
Heh =3 Gotta love Flutterbat. X3

7244576
And this version of Flutterbat is very similar to what I have in mind in my story Fluttershy Batwings.

7244592
Heh.... =3 While on the subject of Bat Ponies..... wanna see mine in a little bit? :3

7244593
Sure.

Ohhhh, where do I even BEGIN with this?!

Main Issues:

1. Celestia and Luna retiring. Just, the idea of it at all! Now, I ain't against the idea of ruling-Equestria being given to Twilight, I wouldn't call her a bad choice, it's just, they had been around for years LONGER before Twily was even a fetus, and yet, NOW they wanted to retire?! Last I check, being god rulers of an entire race, ISN'T SOMETHING TO JUST, RETIRE FROM?! Hence why I am trying to push that idea away from my headcanon for both this and a separate thing I do for an old crossover wiki I do! I would've preferred it If Twilight was being welcomed to be a new co-ruler, or preferably, if the retirement idea was NEVER welcomed to begin with! Or, at the least, Celestia and Luna deciding that retirement was a STUPID idea and reverse course simply what happened with the finale period! Or at least have Twilight be more protestant to it so that it gradually changes their minds! Hell, I once hoped it was all a ruse by Celestia and Luna to teach Twilight some cryptic lesson! It still would've been stupid on its own accord and risk igniting Anti-Celestia memes, but I THINK THE RETIREMENT THING HAS EQUALLY DONE THIS TO SOME DEGREE?!
2. Grogar turning out to be another shenanigan of Discord. Now, up until that point, Grogar, had serious potaintional. Had it NOT been for the fake-out, Grogar would've been a nice villain to end the series on instead of just a villain marathon. Or at the least, have the fake-out be exposed by the ACTUAL Grogar clearing his name!
3. Destroying the Tree of harmony. Just, not, A FAN, of it?!
4. The Sombra in and out thing. Sombra was brought back, only to be defeated again and never brought back. Now, granted, this is a minor point cause I felt like the tree could've used some justice, but at the same time, it may as well had been like Sombra stayed dead in Season 3.
5. Cozy Glow (And MAYBE Chrysalis and Tirek) Deserved Better! Look, I know there's those of you that kinda were getting tired with the mass reformings earlier seasons were doing, but I feel like there's some of you that felt like the trio deserved better. Well another way more me is for Cozy Glow to at least be given a chance while Tirek just returns to Tartarus and the Changelings offer to keep Chrylly on the tightest gooey leash ever! It's flabergasting that everyone forgets that Cozy's a CHILD?! I mean, sure, with Chrysalis and Tirek, they're adults, Tirek basically being a long-lived demon centaur, and Chrysalis potaintionally unhinged, but Cozy? Sure, she nails the Darla Dimple thing down well, BUT SHE'S OTHERWISE A KID?! At the least put her in juvie if ya want an example made?! I'M DAMN SURE COZY HAS PARENTS AND A FAMILY?! Also, Discord alone proved that the statue thing ISN'T GONNA BE PERMANENT?! If anything, they're gonna end up being the future's problem sometime eventually?! Additionally, I was also against Cozy being sent to Tartarus to begin with and making it easier for her to end up with Tirek, but, I view that as another side-effect of trying to ease away another easy reformation, but that much is more of a Season 8 issue, BUT BY GOD IT CONTRIBUTED TO THIS?!
6. The Main Arc was BARELY even a focused thing! Okay, to be fair, this has been MLP:FIM's flaw since the beginning, but, it's noticeably worse in Season 9, at least in stark contrast to Season 8!
7. Even when the Main Arc IS brought back into the spotlight, it often comes at the expense at the characters' competence and/or proper behavior! Like, Applejack didn't even TRIED to be a contrarian in the Summer Sun episode, for as much as she's the element of honesty, I already complained about Discord's actions and the royal sisters in full, the one good thing I'll say that it does at least show that Twilight has grown out of the days of "Lesson Zero" levels of insanity, but at the same time, she was TOO content with the thing?! So the legit good thing is marred and moot?!
8. Daring Doubt..... Didn't even watch it cause it took TOO much logic leaps and changes to canon that I won't even let my headcanon ACCEPT IT!
9. The Summer Sun Episode had SO many issues that it deserves it's OWN thing to talk about, but, I will address the main! Like, the idea of ending the holiday cause "Retirement, LOL", I mean, does it MATTER if Celly and Luna would be gone by the next year, there was NO need to end the holiday! I'll appreciate it being rebooted to celebrate the princesses, BUT STILL! They should've just gone with changing the holiday instead and not bother with the pointless "Last Day" crap?! Also, the fact the trio got away with screwing everything up and that the ponies there acted so, STUPID! Okay, the intelligence inconsistencies has been an issue in the series proper before that point, to be fair, but, it's espeically intolerable here! Espeically with the fireworks ponies! They were TOO easily lolled by Chrylly's BS Unicorn Superiority garbage that, it makes me wonder why they bothered with being a firework troupe to begin with!? (Same with the Unicorn Chef and everyone else later down that line while we're at it)?! Also, they SERIOUSLY did not remember Tirek's magicing sucking effects NOR reckitnese Cozy Glow?! Those three should've been EXPOSED by now?! That mess, went TOO perfectly! Of any arc-episodes that need a revamp, THAT ONE NEEDS THE SEVEREST OF REWRITES?! And I already brought up the Applejack thing there!
10. The Canonical Shipping of Sandbar with Yona. (It's a' me thing, in this other thing, I had Sandbar date a Seapony, cause ya know, IT MADE MORE SENSE WITH HIS CUTIEMARK?!)
11. And finally, "The Last Problem"..... It's not a bad farewell, just.... Un-necessarily pointless sweet fluff that we know would mean nothing cause G4 would soon be debunked and replaced by G5 anyway (Pony Life is already starting breaking the foundations for it as we speak, so not like we can keep up with what Luster Dawn is doing (Who dare I added is EXTREMELY wasted potaintional to be a character introduced in a final episode) so honestly, the Last Problem is just, the filler to LITTERALLY end all fillers) so, it's basically another episode I had to pass on, even if I heard that the final song is beautiful. I also avoided watching it out of sadness or MLP:FIM ending period, but, now, I have grown bitter and critical to Season 9, looking back. I dare not say I'm at the point I call Season 8 the "True Ending" while viewing Season 9 as a crazy alternate universe that managed to snuck in into mainline canon, but I am DIFFIDENTLY in the "Revamp Season 9" crowd.

And the saddest thing is, season 9 was the season that finally gave us Scootaloo's parents after years of orphan assumption, a clever joke on the Villain-Focused episode about being aware how Friendship works (Though granted it inadvertently misdirected some of you about their ultimate fate, I know, even I fell for it), and I would imagine that losing the tree of harmony got Equestria to beef up defenses, so I know Firebrand would just LOVE that idea, and hell, it even gave us the episode where Angel's bad behavior is addressed (BUT EVEN THAT WAS FLAWED IN HIDEOUS WAYS), but all those things end up being flawed diamonds to an even more flawed season and a flawed send-off to the series!

......

I'm sorry or the long comment, but, that was alot of pent up bitterness finally being released, I needed that off my chest.

7286054
I agree with everything you said. Especially the No. 1 thing that both me and you hate the most: Celestia and Luna retiring.

Rest assured, I am one of those major players who hate that stupid decision that the writers did for them anyways.

Just for that, along with everything else (especially the whole Yonabar because me and my UK friend aka The Blue EM2 also hate that shipping as well), I will add you to my followers list by following you! :D

7286054
What about the fact Luna just got back from the moon since a few years and just got her own throne recently?
That's my main issue with her retiring. She didn't get to enjoy being the princess of the night and co-ruler of Equestria for much long.

I have an issue with the Summer Sun Celebration in general but I feel like I want to save that for the next reply and such.

I know how it feels to make large comments to vent something out.
I did that quite a bunch of times.

7290816
Admittingly an issue I forgot to address cause I'm not a heavy Luna fan, but yeah, I see your point!

I too am curious as to why Luna didn't even TRY to protest the idea of retiring considering the whole Nightmare Moon fiasco! But compared to my issues of contention, that's more of a minor over-sight then that bad of a flaw as suppose to them retiring at all!

7290821
Many fans theorized Luna retired so she won't be separated from Celestia(who apparently didn't bother finding a compromise for Luna to continue ruling but still be with Celestia). Celestia pretty much forced a "Pick your poison" scenario on Luna there.

Really.. I feel like Celestia(probably even Harmony planned all of this) set everything up for Twilight to be her successor, it was at the expense of Luna big time.

7290823
Well again, not a heavy Luna fan, so, again, that thing with Luna is minor to me as I'm more against the retirement in general for the fact that Celestia (At the least) has been ruler for a long time and yet, this retirement thing came up NOW?! I mean, I heard this claim that the retirement thing is based on Lauren Faust's original idea to make Twilight a successor, and, I'm not against that persay, it's just, the execution marred Faust's idea too badly for that theory to be acceptable!