Effective immediately, the Reviewers’ Café is changing its format. As opposed to a top-down review system where we grant the title of “Reviewer” to a handful of people we vet who then have the sole ability to review and accept stories, the Café is allowing all members, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE BEEN LABELED AS A “REVIEWER” BY CAFÉ STAFF to review stories and paste said reviews in the forums. The details of how this will occur are as follows:

1. Members of any level will be allowed to read any story in the Submissions folder and post a review in the forums.
2. The Submissions folder will no longer be emptied: once a story is submitted, the only ways it may be removed are by the author themselves or by the admins should it break Café rules (which may be viewed on the front page).
3. Those currently known as Reviewers (Group Contributors and Admins) will become “Trusted Reviewers,” and have the ability to accept stories into the Café’s Accepted folder. The position is open to any who desire it, although those without prior review experience may be put through a trial for quality assurance purposes.

Additionally, the forums are no longer only for reviews, but for writing as a whole. We felt that, being the writing branch of the Creator’s Guild, fostering an environment for writing as a whole and not just posting reviews was the best direction the new Café could move in.

We thank you for your time, and hope that you will get plenty of use out of this new format for the Café.

6717058
Be nice if submissions could open on time.

6717091
Knew there was something I was forgetting X_X

Just changed the folder, submissions are now open.

6717172
As seen in point #3, not just anybody is allowed to accept stories into the Café—only those who we know are on the same page as us. We're simply opening the group up as a space for anybody seeking help and advice to come to, which many people who submit use this group for. Reviews by the Trusted Reviewers will still happen, and stories will still be accepted. Our goal has always been creating a space for writers to come and get feedback and improve, and we felt we were becoming too myopic about the reviews themselves and not why they were being done. In the old system, many people focused too much on the accept/reject aspect of reviews and not what was said on how they could improve. We don't claim to be the end-all-be-all of whether or not a story is good, we're just here to help. There are plenty of people in this group who have some incredible advice to give but may not want to commit to being a reviewer, and now they are capable of sharing information and doing a review or two when time permits them.

6717172

This was a decision we decided after years of being open. Each of us, yourself included, have our own thoughts on what a review group should be. We are going to allow anyone to review what they want under the understanding that people are putting themselves into that IF they opt to. To get a review, you can have it go through the cafes reviews to get past what standards we have. IF youre just looking for a review and dont care about scoring or getting into a folder, then that option is available to you.

2 types of reviews: through our team and through the community, each having their pros and cons. If people aren't interested in the official service weve always offered, fine, dont submit to that, go for community review. That then would receive special tags to differentiate them between official and community.

Talking about offering story discussion as a means to expand service or encourage participation is tone deaf as each story has a comment section for itself, why come here? Our thing is reviews, why would we disallow people from reviewing if they want to pass out their own review? Under credibility? On a fandom website? Or make a new group just to do the literal same thing? No, that sounds elitist and frankly it's a waste of manpower and braincells than to just say "Hey, if you want to render non-affiliate reviews when people ask" which is the boiled down statement here.

All this move does is give people that arent on the team and that dont want to be, a chance to try their hand at reviewing. Reviewing is and always will be subjective to a point. This encourages people to get out there and review.

Also, why is it that literally anytime any group does something in this fandom people come out to shit on it even if it literally does nothing but status quo. Always. Never fails. Fml.

6717209
If a Trusted Reviewer reviews it, they will have the ability to accept/reject it. Additionally, Trusted Reviewers are those listed as Contributors or Admins in this group. Pretty simple way to tell. If we disagree with a non-official review...okay? Sometimes even reviewers disagree on official reviews, it's an inherently subjective activity. We try to minimize that, but by no means is it impossible to eliminate. Fully doing so essentially then comes down to a spelling and grammar check, since that's the only thing that has a right or wrong answer. Thoughtcrime doesn't exist here, posting a glowing review of a fic we don't like won't incur any censorship or punishment. So long as somebody's actually being helpful (i.e. not being a dick and not just posting "Story was okay, 5/10"), you're allowed to think whatever you want and discuss anything you wish in your review.

Which segues into why I said we're not the end-all-be-all of story quality. I never claimed you said we were, it's just a way to explain our thinking. We have always had helping authors be our top priority, not try to curate what we personally believe is worthy of "good" stories—getting accepted has always been an additional benefit, a concrete way to say "this one person thought you were good." We've rejected stories that have been featured on EQD and the RCL, as we've accepted stories they've turned over. Under this new system that's a lot clearer, and we're adding in more functionality to the group to make it more of a community. Choosing the name "Café" was deliberate upon this group's founding because we're a relaxed place to come and discuss writing and stories, not a committee handing down judgments on others' fics. This change has been tossed around occasionally for quite a while as a potential avenue to go down, and group discussions about nominated stories and reviews has actually been discussed and was decided against. We want to foster a community that's allowed to discuss what they want and need and help each other out, with more experienced people helping out as well.

Finally: yes validation is nice and getting into the Café is something people enjoy, but that goes back into my point about myopia surrounding the reviews themselves. Being accepted has always been seen by the admins and staff as a secondary bonus, not the aim of a review. Our posts are tagged with [REVIEW], not [ACCEPT] or [REJECT] because of this.

6717227

6717238
Or... instead of passing off his argument as useless criticism, you could do the smart thing and look at the smart side of what he's saying. You're only looking at the negative side: he's a dick and he's contradicting the plans here. You could just take his words into consideration instead of making the assumption he's trying to argue with you over the internet when really he's only trying to point a few simple things out so you guys will have a better set up.

6717180
So basically, anyone can make a 'community review' but only you guys can move a story to the 'under review' folder and eventually accept it or reject it?

6717305
Yes. This is to allow people who want reviews to have more opportunities to get them from a larger variety of people, as well as still keeping in place the official reviews and the accept/reject system.

6717248

Or read the entire statement and ask follow up instead of calling it a lazy approach. It's an a-b conversation, Mug. Let him debate it.

Either way, I've no large stake here aside from making sure people don't abuse the system in our forums.

Zero interest in continuing this, you, me, and Cur have better stuff to be doing.

Well, this thread went downhill very quickly.

In any case, it's an interesting approach. I'm not sure how much of a difference it's going to make in terms of who's going to post reviews, but no harm in giving it a shot, I suppose, as long as adjustments are made for any unusual edge cases.

6717446
Lol

It's very brave of you guys to go with that decision. I know most people wouldn't make such... interesting choices.

6717454
There were some other reasons that went into it but the big one is that we trust the normal user to be respectful. We arent so ego driven as to rule out the possibility completely.

Though, through abuse it will lose. Should it become an issue we'll act accordingly.

Also, hiiiii G long time no talk.

6717459

Hm, trust is a trait one rarely sees, especially in certain groups. I can't wait to see your group try it.

I had no idea you wanted to talk to me. Now that IS a surprise to hear.

6717452
Thaaaaaaaaaaaat's not a very mature way to respond.

i.e. Deleting my comment and responding with, "Lol."

Edit: Okay, guess I'm banned for some reason. Don't know what I did, but I'm banned. This is really mature, amirite?

Okay, I'm not an admin, however I have to admit it is very odd, seeing this post, putting a story in a submission folder, walking away, only to come back and see that this entire thread is ON FIRE!!!

Where is the fire extinguisher?

6717513
Take the hint, mug. This isn't a big issue and it's over, move on.

6717465
I try to not let bad interactions spoil what was otherwise a good history. You were around and some conversations were fun.

6717644

How nice you seem to have a different face off of DIscord.

6718227
I'm the same person on and off, if you saw be being stern with people then it's likely cause people's entitlement annoys me.