Cold Light
By Scramblers and Shadows

Reviewed by Asilin

Oh hai. Got another break, hit another wall, and here we are reviewing again.

Today’s piece is a steampunk adventure! I can dig it. Blurb seems pretty interesting and I have high hopes here.

Three years ago, ponies discovered Amaranth, a desert world of ancient, abandoned technology and countless mysteries. It has become the frontier for the unscrupulous, the adventurous and the dispossessed. Salvor airships ply the skies, pirates prey on the weak and idealists seek to unify the disparate.
Three months ago, Scootaloo left Equestria for Amaranth. She hasn't been heard from since.
Now Sweetie Belle searches for her lost friend, to find her, tell her the truth, and bring her home. But as she does so, she stumbles upon a great and terrible secret sought by a number of dangerous and powerful creatures. A secret that explains the shared history of Amaranth and Equestria and could spell the end of both worlds.

So let’s begin.

Opening is a bit meh. This isn’t necessarily an issue -- the descriptions are fine and well done and there’s a decent voice -- but for me, it’s not really capturing me. If I had to give an exact reason why, it’s possibly because the narrator feels a bit too distant in the moment, too disconnected. If looking to rewrite, you might expand this section a bit more and give it some urgency.

Well, despite the prologue framing, the start of the chapter definitely caught me. I’m intrigued. You establish the opening problem well (the lack of fuel) and I love your setting descriptions. Wasn’t too much of a fan of how you introduced her motivation, but I think I was expecting a bit more build up to it.

Sweetie Belle couldn't help but smile. Their teenage years, complete with colts and euphoria and tears and fillies and awkwardness and arguments, had had come and gone, but some things still hadn't changed.

Small grammar note: you have a second had in here. I try not to comment on things like this often, but your first chapter is pretty spot-on syntax-wise, so it’s a shame not to make it completely right.

We’re having a flashback now? Bit strange so early on, but works for phasing through the travel time. Establishes why Scootaloo is important, so it’s a good inclusion. Plus you segue in and out of it well. But ponies smoke? That feels really weird. Sorry, just kinda yanked me out there.

And there’s the magic object. Can’t have a quest without a magic thing-a-majig. (Not poking fun… okay, yes, I am, but it’s not of you: it’s of the trope.)

You actually have a good scene here. You have a strength in setting description. I’m kind of jealous.

Not a lot to say about the start of the next chapter; it’s pretty much what has to happen next when you have the heroine on a search for water: she has to find the water and then go tell folks she found water. Kinda like with the magic thing-a-majig, I’m not trying to be mean here, but you’re basically where you need to be for an epic adventure, so I’m mostly just recognizing the scene and moving on. There’s just not much to say.

Dream sequence though. Like with the flashback, you do segue in and out of it well. And the scene itself isn’t bad itself; it’s biggest issue is that you already stopped the plot once in the previous chapter (by definition, a flashback stops the plot in order to fill in background information. Dreams tend to do the same, only in present time.) So it feels a bit jarring to have the same kind of moment in the same position. Now, it’s possible this is your format, but this is commentary, so we’re running with it as I think of things ;)

Small syntax comment:

The statue stood facing her, not casting a shadow. It opened its mouth to speak, and

There should be an em-dash at the end here. It indicates a deliberate break rather than just stopping.

Good set up for our next complication. Might have issues delivering the statue. Not surprised. Get the statue, hear mysterious voice that only Sweetie Belle can hear, and… flashback.

I really hope this isn’t going to be a consistent pattern here. So far you seem to be alternating between present day sequences and flashbacks/dream sequences regularly.

And that’s not to say that I don’t get what you’re trying to do with these; in fact, individually, they do what they’re supposed to do. The problem is that, again, you’re stopping the forward momentum of the plot to pull us back (or pause, in the case of a dream). That’s why spacing them out is generally better.

Anyway, we’ve arrived at the current destination. Again, I’m loving the descriptions here. You have a great grasp on concrete detail.

Jennet? What’s that? Oh. Female donkey. You might want to consider more context clues for that. Even including that the jennet shook her mane or something would give me a bit more idea of the interaction.

….and we’re maintaining this pattern of present day to flashback. Ugghhh… Anyway, more going wrong with Sweetie Belle and Scootaloo’s non-existent relationship. I’m getting the feeling Sweetie Belle is pushing too hard here, and that’s actually eroding my sympathy for her. If that’s your intent, mission accomplished, but typically you don’t want us to be side-eyeing the protagonist so early on.

And semi-lucky break with finding a lead on Scootaloo. Of course. The character can’t find a clue on her; she has to be told.

I’m going to come back to why this is a problem later.

Confirmation that the magical artifact did magical stuff to her, new plan to get to her next destination -- which was a decent save -- AND A POV SWITCH. This isn’t necessarily bad; however, with all of your other flashbacks and such, this was hard to pin immediately as a POV switch. Anyway, introduction to the bad guys.

At this point, we’re over 10k words. I’m still interested, so I’m going to keep reading until I’m no longer interested (and note where I finally lost interest) or feel I’m spending too much time on this. But I’m not going to necessarily do running commentary from here on.

Ended up reaching the end of the first part, and I’m calling it. Sweetie Belle goes off to the next location, discovers Scootaloo had become a hero to a group of archaeologists, there’s still more flashbacks, and Sweetie Belle is apparently suicidal because she decides to leave her airship and wait for Scootaloo.

In a huge ass desert.

With no guarantee that Scootaloo would come back to the location or would even be able to return.

Anyway, Scootaloo is captured because the bad gal knows they’re looking for a white unicorn mare, so maybe now we’ll see her doing something?

Nope. Wyrm eggs hatch and allow them to escape. Then she apparently has magical knowledge of a spell that lets her portal out with her buddy. Bit of explanation from the thing inhabiting her mind now, but interrupted by the pirates coming after her. And then the day is saved by Scootaloo!

Ugh. I’m calling it here.

Let’s start with the good.

You are a very strong writer. In terms of your description and world building, you create amazing images and societies, and that can really hook a reader. In fact, it’s what carried me through so long. This is definitely a strength you’ll want to capitalize on as you continue writing. You also have a solid hook and a solid adventure plot, even if that plot is pretty straight on trope.

The problems I ended up encountering were of pacing and motivation.

Pacing is a bit easier to address. This entire first part is slow. There’s nothing inherently wrong with slow – as long as you are building up tension to go with it. A decent example would be how Wheel of Time opens. It takes five chapters before the plot spills out all over the characters and forces them to flee. However, in the meantime, Jordan adds layer upon layer of detail of how the world is going wrong outside the village, showing more strangers arriving in the town, introducing strain between the characters early on. Add in an early introduction of a shadowy figure and you get the feeling that these normal moments are sitting on the edge of a cliff, just waiting for the final push over.

In your story, though, there’s no underlying sense of urgency. Sweetie Belle isn’t under any kind of deadline to find Scootaloo that we know of; she spends a lot of time wandering and reminiscing; and there’s no real threat to her. Yes, you’ll point to the griffon pirates, but they upfront say they can’t really kill her, and the two with her are folks she just met, so there’s no real threat to her or her emotional well-being here.

And yes, part of the issue with your pacing is how many breaks in the plot you introduce with your dream sequences and flashbacks. We don’t need to see the full history of Sweetie Belle and Scootaloo’s relationship. Since this is mainly from Sweetie Belle’s POV, we mostly need to understand how she interprets the relationship. So she can stray into a telling memory (“like the night they had finally connected: how happy she had been!”) or relate her thoughts and adventures as if talking to Scootaloo (“Man, Scootaloo, wish you could see this statue. You’d be amazed”) or just referencing Scootaloo in general (“She wanted to nuzzle Scootaloo so much right now, feel her wings around herself…).

I won’t say that the flashbacks aren’t interesting because, on their own, they are. In fact, they’d make an excellent love story on their own. But that’s the problem: on their own. In the current context, what they do is interrupt your forward momentum and highlight that nothing is really happening in the main story. That’s kind of a problem. Because that’s what eventually pointed me to your second problem: motivation.

Sweetie Belle wants to find Scootaloo. Why? After 30k words, I have no idea.

I know that Sweetie Belle apparently has a crush on Scootaloo, that they had a romantic interlude, and that they may not have been entirely compatible.

That is all you have told us in your story. The only reason why I know that Scootaloo has been missing for a bit is because of your blurb. That’s a problem. Your blurb doesn’t count as story.

So I need to know why exactly Sweetie Belle is coming after Scootaloo. Was Scootaloo supposed to come after a certain date? Did she send a message to Sweetie Belle saying she’s in trouble, please come help? Is Sweetie Belle at the end of her rope in Equestria and hoping to find her friend to get a fresh start in a new world?

Because without knowing precisely why Sweetie Belle is doing this, I have to put together the pieces from what you’ve presented. And here’s what it looks like through Part 1: Sweetie Belle has a mostly unrequited crush on Scootaloo. She’s almost obsessed with the idea of being with her friend. Scootaloo, not interested in a relationship, leaves for adventure and drops contact because, well, it’s awkward now. Sweetie Belle, still obsessed, decides she can’t bear to be apart from her friend and is now stalking her to an unknown land.

Remember when I said I was losing sympathy for Sweetie Belle? That chain of thought right there. From a lack of other information, it seriously looks like Sweetie Belle has become a stalker. There’s no reason for her to be in Amaranth. Scootaloo doesn’t seem to be in trouble, doesn’t seem to have asked Sweetie Belle to show up, Sweetie Belle herself isn’t looking for help, etc. That obsession is backed up with the fact that Sweetie chooses a suicidal course in staying in the desert at a site that was attacked by a giant wyrm without any supplies or plans.

As a side note, flashbacks don’t have to be in chronological order either. Yes, it’s helpful, but as I’m pointing out, the order is currently implying a motivation I don’t think you meant.

As a further side note, before you say that her motivation is fully defined in a flashback later on in the story, I’m going to point out that the minimum word count for a novel is 50k. I read 30k. I shouldn’t go almost half a novel before finding out why somebody is doing something. Maybe half a novel before finding out that they were lying about the motivation, but that’s a bit different.

Anyways, by defining her motivation, you might also alleviate the final major issue: Sweetie Belle as a protagonist. Personality-wise, she’s fine. The issue is that she doesn’t do anything. The most she does is fly out in a straight line and discover something. Everything else has either been handed to her or happened to her. Finds a magical object? It randomly merges with her. She doesn’t even touch it. Asking around for Scootaloo? A random character comes up and starts giving her information against that character’s later stated better judgement. She’s captured? Oh, giant wyrm eggs hatch. Gets cornered? Oh, suddenly we have knowledge of an incredibly powerful spell. Raided by pirates? Here’s Scootaloo to save the day!

Any one of these would have been fine. Maybe even two. But with so many happy coincidences, it feels less like coincidence and more like deus ex machina. It also means that your protagonist is a passive character. She doesn’t shape the plot; the plot shapes her. Her choices don’t carry weight. And that’s a big problem in a protagonist.

So give her a decent motivation that gives some credence to her lack of preparedness. Is Scootaloo in trouble so she just rushed off as soon as she got word? Was Sweetie Belle chased out of her home? Whatever. Because I just kept asking myself after a while why Sweetie Belle was asking around after Scootaloo and not using magic. Wouldn’t she have learned the locator spell from Twilight?

TL;DR version: Your story has amazing descriptors and world building, and you have a decent scaffold in your plot (from what I’ve read). However, the constant flashbacks and dream sequences drain your pacing and highlight the fact that you have a passive protagonist who doesn’t have a clear motivation for doing what she’s doing (or, at worst, is a stalker).

Give Sweetie Belle a clear motivation. We need some urgency to help explain why she’s willing to take such dangerous chances and explain why she’s there in the first place.

Cut back on your flashbacks and dream sequences. While interesting, you’re slowing down your main plot in favor of feeding us backstory.

Make Sweetie Belle active. This can be as simple as letting her have a locator spell that leads her to Milli, instead of Milli just deciding to show up on her own. Sweetie Belle’s magic leads her to Milli, and now she has to bargain for the information. Or beg her way. Or whatever. Ultimately, Sweetie Belle needs to weigh on the plot in some manner, not just be carried away by it.

The prose itself is strong and can carry you on for quite some time. However, there are underlying structural issues which can easily pull you out of the story. So this is getting a conditional

Enjoyable.

This is one of those cases where I’m suggesting a lot of work, but this work would really just jump it into a Recommended slot rather than a simple “this is readable”.

Apparently FimFic doesn't like Giphy? Or I inputted something wrong. It's late. I'll play with the broken gifs later.

Fixed it.

5903421
Thing-a-majigs, thingamabobs, when will the kajiggers get their place in the sun?!

I'm curious about your points concerning the flashbacks, not for this specific story but just in general. A story of mine kicked off each chapter with a flashback, and I never considered the possibility of that throwing off the flow of the plot. Do you think there is a way to frame flashbacks so the flow isn't interrupted, or is that just an inherent flaw in using them?

5903801

It's an inherent flaw. Basically your story (even framed in 3rd person past) is the present and flows forward. A flashback, by definition, takes us backwards in time which means we're no longer moving forward.

And that's not to say there aren't good reasons to. Even in this story, the flashbacks do play a fairly necessary role in giving the emotional weight that Sweetie Belle is operating under which builds her character up. The problem is that the character establishment is their sole function. Scenes have to play multiple roles: establish character, conflict, or theme; create atmosphere and establish setting; and/or move the plot forward.

A flashback cannot do the last as it simply informs background. A flashback set on a different world from the one you're currently in can't add a lot of atmosphere, although it does tangentially add to overall setting. So it's primary purpose is to establish and flesh out character, conflict, and/or theme. You want to limit the number of times you have a single use scene because that slows your story down. And that can be for anything: if the sole purpose of your scene is to reveal a clue to a mystery, then you're wasting time by not doing more with that scene.

I'll also note that placement of the flashback can make a difference. Like in your example, starting with a flashback each time could actually make the flashback feel more like an epigraph (the quotes at the beginning of a chapter) which can offset the feeling of interruption since now it feels supplemental instead of necessary. Or, like in several cases in this story, flashbacks were placed between travel scenes. Show that a journey is starting, flashback, journey end. You know get the feeling of reminiscing, which hides the feeling of interruption.

The issue here was that this was utilized consistently to an almost regularity, so the adaptation can't hide cleanly. It's kind of like saidisms. You can use yelled, declared, cried, exclaimed, etc. for every dialogue tag, but eventually it's the only thing you notice. So you mix things up and use said, action tags, leaving tags off, and the saidisms. Then your tricks don't stand out.

So limited use of flashbacks is good and putting flashbacks in places that limits the interruption helps as well. Overuse makes them noticeable.

5903421
It gets much better in the next chapter.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist. Thanks for the review!)

5903907

Booooo :P

Technically, that depends on how you count next chapters, doesn't it? Since the next chapter would've been one of your part break chapters, so it's a blank page, so technically that's better :p

5903822

It's an inherent flaw. Basically your story (even framed in 3rd person past) is the present and flows forward. A flashback, by definition, takes us backwards in time which means we're no longer moving forward.

I generally try not to offer reviews of my own reviews. It's the sort of thing that gets messy fast. But since this is a general point about writing, and one of my personal soapbox topics, I have no problem saying it's completely and utterly wrong. Like arguments from definition usually are.

Progressing through a story is not the same as progressing chronologically through the story's timeline. This is a general point -- it applies to all anachronic stories, not just those with flashbacks. Progressing through a story is, basically, revealing events. When you go forward in time, you answer the questions what does this lead to? When you go back, it's what led to this? And with a perspective change, it's what's happening over here? Your task as a writer writer, if you like, is to make this series of revelations interesting to the target audience. That might involve going backwards in time, forwards, or any which way. I've read plenty of books for the anachronic order made things much more interesting.

Now, is there a cost when you bounce to a different narrative? Yes. It hinders the reader's momentum. But there's no qualitative difference here between flashes and any other perspective change. Is the momentum loss worth the new perspective? That's a judgement call, and not an easy one.

Incidentally, the problem with the argument from definition is this: If you say "A flashback by definition can't progress the plot/do anything other than fill out background/etc.", all you're doing is preventing yourself from speaking about anachronic devices which can do those things.

5903910
Oh. Er, yeah. Didn't think of that.

Oops.

5903928

If you note in the rest of my comment, I do address some of your points. The fact still remains that a flashback inherently stops the forward momentum of the plot in order to address background. That is its primary purpose. Now, yes, it can be necessary, as I did agree some of yours were. That's why they are part of a writer's toolbox.

The problem is that, like many tools, they have a downside that you must compensate for. So I'm not saying that flashbacks are bad, I'm saying the flashbacks have an inherent flaw of pulling us away from the primary narrative in order to focus our attention somewhere else. And as such, this can do harm to your readers' investment in your primary narrative.

As an example, the final straw for me was in chapter 4 where I hit that flashback to dream sequence/mystical moment combo. We had another scene of no real tension build, then flashback, then you have us in a dream. Then the next scene flips to Milli deciding to follow after the griffon pirates following Sweetie Belle.

It was at that moment that things weren't really happening and that Sweetie Belle in the primary narrative is relatively flat. And that happened because I'd been pulled out of the main narrative too many times.

Now, it's entirely possible that if you strengthen the main narrative by giving Sweetie Belle better agency that the issues with the flashbacks can disappear. However, I can only give advice/tips/review on what I presently have. And, to be honest, part of the issue with the flashbacks is that they're more interesting than your main narrative. Which just highlights the issues with main narrative more.

5903945
Well, I don't wanna get into defending my story, because nothing good will come of it. I can't argue someone into liking something. (And to be honest, I checked the bit in Chapter 4, and looking back on it now, I can see you're point. It is a bit precious.)

The fact still remains that a flashback inherently stops the forward momentum of the plot in order to address background. That is its primary purpose.

But that, precisely, is what I'm disputing: The notion that there's this one thing called "plot" and there's this separate thing called "background", and that a flashback (or flashforward, or whatever) can only do background and never plot. i think that's a spurious distinction.

Or, if you like, the events that happen in a flashback (or ...) can be plot just like events that happen everywhere else in a narrative. Which is to say they are pieces of a (hopefully) interesting chain of events being revealed piece by piece in a (hopefully) interesting way.

I think we agree as far as the other stuff: Flashbacks aren't bad, but they do come with a cost. I have no issue with that. I'm chasing after something more fundamental.

5904265

Except that there is a difference. The plot is defined as the main events of a story. It starts at the inciting incident and continues forward.

Now, how you present that plot can vary. You might do so non-linearly. You might use different POVs. Flashbacks. Whatever. None of this is wrong as long as you do it well.

Which is my bigger point here: as things stand, you haven't done it well. The larger issue is with your main narrative which is pushing the adventure plot.

Which is a shame because, contrary to your presumption on liking it, I did enjoy this at a base level. You're a good writer. What you need is a bit more balance between your two stories (because the flashbacks are a story in their own right at this point) to make this a better story.

Take it as a challenge. Or ignore it. It's your writing journey.

5904282
Remember what I said about arguments from definition are usually wrong? Same goes here. Yes, you can define things to be the way you want them to be, all you're doing is saying some about the words you use, not about the phenomena you're describing. By defining things the right way, you can introduce all sorts of distinctions that aren't really there.

That aside, your definition as offered -- the plot is the main events of the story -- doesn't change anything. Which are the main events? Let's just call the events in the flashbacks main events, and they become part of the plot. The plot starts at the inciting incident? Let's put the inciting incident in one of the flashbacks. Same result: If we do things in such a way, the flashbacks hold plot.

Which is a shame because, contrary to your presumption on liking it, I did enjoy this at a base level. You're a good writer. What you need is a bit more balance between your two stories (because the flashbacks are a story in their own right at this point) to make this a better story.

Now, this I can get on board with. I presume by balance, you mean something along the lines that those issues with motivation and agency you mentioned in the present-storyline drain it power, especially placed alongside the past-storyline? That's a good point. I don't know if I agree with it straight off, but it is worth thinking about.

5905126

That aside, your definition as offered -- the plot is the main events of the story -- doesn't change anything. Which are the main events? Let's just call the events in the flashbacks main events, and they become part of the plot. The plot starts at the inciting incident? Let's put the inciting incident in one of the flashbacks. Same result: If we do things in such a way, the flashbacks hold plot.

No, because the plots are the main events starting from the inciting incident and moving forward. There's any number of term for them, but you basically have pinches and turns where characters have to make hard choices that affect the future of the story.

Your flashbacks take place prior to your inciting incident (in this case, the run-in with the statue). They highlight the events of the story and give more clarity, but Sweetie Belle's current actions can't change those events.

Basically, your plot is "Sweetie Belle, on her way to find Scootaloo, finds a magical statue and is dragged into world-ending events." The romance arc defines her motivation, but you could honestly present that information in any other way (and some of them you do need to include because if you remove the flashbacks, you'll notice that Sweetie Belle rarely thinks about Scootaloo in any way beyond needing to find her) and still maintain that core plot.

Now, I was thinking about this, and you have an alternative. You can run the flashbacks not as flashbacks but as a separate story. Ever see The Fountain? Really weird Hugh Jackman movie. Three interconnected stories that take place in varying points in time/the universe that are all about the theme of love and loss. The scenes rotate through the different settings, more or less, and are often reflective of one another.

You could do similar. But, in that case, your past story would need its own hook, full plot with conflict, and I'd recommend putting it at the beginning or end (or in their own chapters) to highlight the separate stories.

Another alternative would be to mix up your flashbacks so that she's remembering events that are somehow related to her current situation rather than just presenting the arc in chronological order. This would break up the slow romantic build which is part of the strength of the flashbacks, but also give you opportunity for Sweetie Belle to deal with her memories and define the moments in context of Sweetie Belle instead of just their own thing as they basically stand apart right now.

Now, this I can get on board with. I presume by balance, you mean something along the lines that those issues with motivation and agency you mentioned in the present-storyline drain it power, especially placed alongside the past-storyline? That's a good point. I don't know if I agree with it straight off, but it is worth thinking about.

Basically, Sweetie Belle in the past has more agency than Sweetie Belle in the present. In the past, she makes decisions that are affecting her relationship with Scootaloo with the goal of trying to be with Scootaloo. In the present, she's basically wandering, hoping that stuff falls in her lap (which it is). Now, the latter could work, to an extent, if her goal were to experience Amaranth for herself and hopefully catch up to Scootaloo at some point in her journey (with new motivations and goals being picked up with the exposure to the statue and finding out Scootaloo is being chased which lead Sweetie Belle to making decisions that affect the plot).

However, Sweetie Belle's obsession with finding Scootaloo to the point of endangering herself needs more reason. You mention in the blurb that it's been months (Side note: this fact definitely needs inclusion in the story itself somewhere): was Scootaloo supposed to check in and didn't? Come back and didn't? Did she send for help?

Heck, it could be simple selfishness: Scootaloo wrote home to say she was staying in Amaranth from now on, and Sweetie Belle wants to convince her to come home.

But we still need some indication of what's driving Sweetie Belle's decisions. And then her actions should be reflective of that motivation and be pro-active. So, a good example, would be in when she's searching for Scootaloo in the city. Asking every single person in a city and hoping you get an answer isn't very pro-active. It's hoping for luck. If she, instead, were using magic to try to find the people she needed to talk to, or tracking Scootaloo's trail through the city, or anything to give her a solid starting point, then she feels more in control of her story than just floating with it. Kind of like changing her song set to openly flirt with Scootaloo. Or taking chances to increase their physicality.

5905148

No, because the plots are the main events starting from the inciting incident and moving forward. There's any number of term for them, but you basically have pinches and turns where characters have to make hard choices that affect the future of the story.

Hold on. In my last post, I gave an argument why it doesn't work to just define a plot in terms of main events or inciting incidents. Well, two actually: (1) Because it doesn't necessarily reflect what actually happens in storytelling, and (2) Because it simply moves the burden from "plot" onto "Main events" and "inciting incident". And what are you doing in this paragraph? You're just making the same assertion again. That's not an argument. That's not a rebuttal It's just a convoluted way of saying "I'm right because I am."

After the first paragraph, you segue onto talking about the story again. And don't get me wrong, I appreciate the additional insights, but it's not the topic; what I'm saying here holds true regardless of how good, bad, balanced, unbalanced, or anachronic this story is.

Right, onto that other stuff. I haven't seen The Fountain, but I recognise what you're describing. Iain Banks used it in various iterations: Use of Weapons has one timeline going forwards and one going backwards, told in alternate chapter. Inversions has two stories running in parallel that never truly intersect but are linked by theme and character. The Bridge has sections of surreal fantasy interrupted by an apparently unrelated real-life romance.

And here I throw in the towel and talk about my story: You may have guessed from the previous paragraph that Banks is a big influence on me. And I'm aping that general idea: Two symbiotic stories that inform one another, running in parallel. Perhaps the two threads should have been more distinct. That's a good thought, and I'll keep it in mind for the future.

5905389

After the first paragraph, you segue onto talking about the story again. And don't get me wrong, I appreciate the additional insights, but it's not the topic; what I'm saying here holds true regardless of how good, bad, balanced, unbalanced, or anachronic this story is.

Actually, it is the topic. No matter how I define things or you define things.

First, and only, rule of fiction writing: It must not bore the reader. It must entertain.

What your definition -- or, more appropriately, your audience's -- definition of entertaining is will differ, but there you go.

The corollary to this rule is that whatever you do in your story, you must do well in order to entertain.

That means having an understanding of how parts of a story work, and what their downsides are. And all choices you make means giving up something. 1st person means giving up the ability to see certain things. Omniscient means giving up intimacy. Present tense means giving up an ease of reading. Flashbacks mean breaking narrative flow and pace.

There's nothing wrong with any of those things. It just means you need to know why and how you're using them and make sure that the story itself can cover for those downsides in other ways.

Because, again, it's entirely possible I wouldn't have had a problem with your flashbacks (or secondary story, whichever) if the story had been stronger in other ways. So the only way to discuss this issue is in relation to your story because I'm saying you didn't do it well.

Everything else is just semantics and ultimately doesn't apply unless you can pull it off.

5905438

None of which I dispute. And none of which is directly relevant. I mean, yes, of course as authors we should try and understand how stories work, and use that understanding to make stories more entertaining. Do you really think I disagree that -- or are you just lecturing?

My entire challenge here was about how stories in general work. You made a claim (That flashbacks stop one moving forward through the story), and I challenged that. I argued why it was false. And you responded. That sets the topic of that particular discussion (not the thread we're in right now, in other words). And in the particular discussion, I saw no real arguments. So I stand by my challenge. (And no, it isn't semantics.)

I openly didn't challenge the review itself because, again, you can't argue someone out of an emotional reaction. All I can do with the review is read it, consider it as a response, and see if I can get anything out of it.

Maybe this seems a small thing. Challenging one statement, one paragraph -- maybe that is petty. But, as we both agree, it's important to understand how stories work. And that stuff about flashbacks stopping a story from going forward? I think it's a misunderstanding of how stories work, stated openly from someone in a position of relative authority. That's why I challenged it.

As for everything else? The explanations and all that? That was not part of the argument, but it is appreciated. So thank you for that -- sincerely.