Is it possible for ponies to become the dominant species on Earth? Yes they do lack opposable thumbs (characteristics that are theorised as important for our ascension to dominance on Earth) but we humans lack a lot of useful characteristics that other animals have.

3420777
Considering they've created a very humanlike culture and technology base, I can't see a single reason why they'd have any more issues than us with just taking over the joint. They absolutely have the quality that was the primary thing that let us do it. The big, juicy brain.

I'm assuming you're not talking about taking it over from humans.

3420777

Pretty much impossible. For a variety of reasons.

Earth, compared to Equestria, is a death world. It's animals take care of themselves, have no clearly marked boundary (I'm looking at you, Everfree), as well as the animals on Earth making the animals on Equestria look like wusses.

Ponies are still on the food chain. I don't want to hear any of that whining "But KaBar! Humans are still-" No. Humans are not still on the food chain. Most of the time. You see, Humans have hunted animals so much, the majority have learned to avoid the scent of Humans. The only exception is bears and a few other animals. but the ponies go out in groups and still get attacked by animals. They come to Earth? They're getting picked off by some predators.

Humans are pushing over 7 billion in population. While Equestrians themselves probably only have a little over two million, at my best guess because of these reasons. Pressure. Ponies have not had not had a war or famine or plague or any such disaster that has forced them to repopulate. Humankind? Eh. Plenty of them. The breeding terms. Ponies most likely carry for 11 months compared to Humans 9. As well as most likely having a breeding cycle. There's a reason Humans been likened to rats when it comes to breeding.

Humans are acclimated to Earth's climate and weather, and environment. While, depending on where you live, tornadoes or hurricanes popping up may be normal to you. The ponies are going to think it's God's vengeance. Now before anyone goes and says "Well in episode blahblah, they had a tornado." I will gladly point out that, that tornado was made by ponies.

They simply would have no idea what the hell was going on when a tornado formed in minutes and was suddenly upon them. They'd see it coming, maybe send pegasi to deal with it, only to find out that Earth tornadoes are vastly different from Equestria tornadoes.

Warfare. Yes, if Humanity and Ponies ever fought. Ponies would obviously win, right? I mean they've got magic, right? That trumps technology all the time. No, it doesn't. Humans have been waging war for centuries. Any advantage a pony has, Humans have a better one.

Some people cite pegasi's ability to manipulate rain and lightning and make tornadoes. These are all trumped by the fact that most military stuff is made to survive worse conditions than they can toss at us. Some people say lightning would be used to create an EMP effect on tanks and the like. There are two problems. MLP lighting is vastly different from Earth lightning and most likely differently made. Meaning a pegasus wouldn't be able to use a cloud to conjure it. The pegasi can't create a tornado large enough to effect us. And any EMP effect is offset by the fact that tanks and stuff like that is guarded against EMPs.

Magic can be used as a weapon, perhaps? Maybe. But only by 1/3rd of the population. With Twilight having been the strongest unicorn versed in it. It takes years for a unicorn to learn proper magic. Whereas a Human, the majority of Humans in fact, can just pick up a gun and start shooting.

Earth pony strength? Not enough to trump tanks and the likes. And in order to use it on a basic soldier, they'd have to get close. Do you know how rare it is for American soldiers in Afghanistan to see the Taliban? Pretty rare. I can't find exact numbers, but the original assault rifle built by Germans was designed to reach 400 meters. This was during WWII. That was the average distance of a firefight. That was using traditional warfare tactics. Not think how much different it's become because of guerilla tactics.

So basically what I'm saying is that ponies becoming the dominant species on Earth is unlikely because Earth is a vindictive bitch, her animals make Equestria's look cuddly, and the weather.

Wow, I can't believe I typed that much.

3420816

Earth, compared to Equestria, is a death world. It's animals take care of themselves, have no clearly marked boundary (I'm looking at you, Everfree), as well as the animals on Earth making the animals on Equestria look like wusses.

Except there's every reason to believe all of that was put in place by ponies through ponyforming. Not that it just happened out of the blue. And they lived in a world of happy benign benignitude to start.

There's ponies sitting there managing all of it, after all. The weather. The seasons. The animals. The plants. They've turned their country into a garden.

And even if they can't do the same magical crap... why would a pony be able to any less able to kill a bear than we would? Or build a house to withstand a rainstorm?

It's not as if they don't have weapons and architecture.

3420820

I'm not saying they can't. But they've adapted to a less hostile lifestyle.

Trying to kill a bear with a spear and getting quick is laughable. Even with modern weapons you have have to get into the heavier rounds to do any significant damage to it.

Or build a house to withstand a rainstorm?
It's not as if they don't have weapons and architecture.

Like I said, they've adapted to two completely different lifestyles. I mean, their bulding codes compared to ours in high threat areas have to be laughable.

I'm not saying they can't do it, but Humans have worked their way up to this point. It may take the ponies a bit of time to get to our level.

3420832

But they've adapted to a less hostile lifestyle.

Yeah. So have we in the first world.

But if you plonked a civilization of us down in a virgin world, do you really think we wouldn't be able to make it? We'd still be infinitely better off than our ancestors, by virtue of having all the same physical survival tools when push came to shove, and a hell of a lot more knowledge besides.

Trying to kill a bear with a spear and getting quick is laughable

And yet, our ancestors managed. And survived. And thrived. And I can't see why ponies would be any different.

I mean, their bulding codes compared to ours in high threat areas have to be laughable.

So what? The fact that they can build something like Canterlot alone means that they have no trouble understanding how to build things. Maybe more buildings would be knocked down at first compared to ours, but they'd rebuild better. Just like we would.

A single tornado might suck. But it's insignificant to a civilization. A hurricane might cause a lot of damage. But it won't kill everyone. You're never going to get an invasion of bears that will threaten a nation.

3420840

I can't use quotes because quotes because I'm on my phone and it has horrible formatting. Also, I apologize for any typos.

So I'm just going in order past the virgin planet bit and to the bear bit.

True, point valid. I can't come up with many other reasons than ponies being very flighty.

I'm not saying they have trouble understanding how to build things. But what I'm saying is that extremely hostile environments have a tendancy to cause even the most stubborn of creatures (Humans) give up. Atleast temporarily.

And while I do agree with the last sentiment, we are talking about a species that has never, atleast as far as we know, encountered weather as rough as Earth's.

We are talking about a species that most likely doesn't have as many ponies the reinforce their lost ranks as Humans do. As well as a longer breeding period, which while two months may not seem like a lot. Is actually a lot.

Popping in to play devil's advocate, this is actually a fascinating discussion.

I think we need to make some ground rules here, particularly regarding pony breeding and gestation period. In which case I need to point out: this is purely headcannon territory with no clear answers.

It basically boils down to this: How much like actual horses are the ponies? If I were to make a guess based on evidence we have the answer would be; not very. Advanced brains aside they are physically smaller and their skeletal structure is wildly different from earth equines, the proof largely being in the way ponies move their limbs at extreme angles in total comfort pretty much all the time. Granted the pony gestation period may still be eleven months, but this is less likely because their equines and more likely it just takes that amount of time to gestate a child in the womb, given the complex creature its going to become, otherwise there is literally no real reason why they couldn't gestate in nine months like humans do.

As for breeding, yet again, headcanon territory. The only real instance of childbirth we have on the show, Pound and Pumpkin Cake, occurred during the day. And that's all we know about the season it happened in, could easily be spring, or summer, or early autumn before the leaves started to change colour and that the infancy ward was reasonably full of babies, but not overcrowded, like most infancy wards would be in a healthy society. Therefore if you want to imagine Ponies breeding in line with the seasons, (again, this is them being closer to 'animals' then to say, us), I suppose you can but you can just as easily ignore it.

I'm willing to wager on them being able to breed at any time with regular ovulation cycles like humans do, it just makes sense for a sapient species to do so even if their environment is currently not that hostile to them. However, they will of course be hornier during spring time like the vast majority of terran species would be (including humans) but like humans they likely see spikes of breeding during major holidays and the like, for the same completely arbitrary reasons humans would.

Like I said, Headcanon territory, in a fair discussion about ponies taking over the earth (assuming no humanity present to rival them) its important to keep this in mind.

3420852
Again, we in the first world have never had to face particular adversity either. We've tamed our environment, just like ponykind has. They're just better at it. That's what happens in a golden age. Things are easy. We're in one. And so is ponykind. But all of the instincts and drives and abilities that their ancestors had to make it and become a thriving civilization in a hostile world are still there. Just like they are in mankind.

ponies being very flighty.

So are people.

atleast as far as we know, encountered weather as rough as Earth's.

I don't see why theirs would have been any different before they started screwing with it? They seem to have all the same natural processes. The world seems to be at more or less the same temperature. It has lots of water.

We are talking about a species that most likely doesn't have as many ponies the reinforce their lost ranks as Humans do.

We didn't always have seven billion people. Our population exploded recently.

For most of human history, our population was measured using millions, not billions. Yet we still managed in our (apparent) death world. It's because stuff like animals and weather aren't really all that dangerous to a sapient population. Because unlike non-sapient animals, we make things to mitigate that stuff and modify our environment. Like ponies do.

As well as a longer breeding period, which while two months may not seem like a lot. Is actually a lot.

Ponies aren't horses. Horses are enormous, and gestation period tends to be a function of size. Ponies are smaller than we are, by all accounts.

Something pony-sized like a cougar has a gestation period of three months.

It would probably be longer for ponies, to account for the same sort of brain development humans need. But it might very well be shorter than humans.

3420852

We are talking about a species that most likely doesn't have as many ponies the reinforce their lost ranks as Humans do. As well as a longer breeding period, which while two months may not seem like a lot. Is actually a lot.

But here's a thing: Some ponies do have military mind / training and are not afraid to use what they know against their enemy. *looks at Shining and the Royal Guard*

However, ponies have one more thing that we don't: Magic. They can build force fields and take away / shove things telekinetically. Even though we're more technologically advanced, we might still have absolutely nothing on what ponies can do.

Just take a look at Fallout: Equestria. That's a very good example. One pony with some luck, few friends and unwavering determination made incredible impact on the entire world.

~Twi

3420871

In firat world countries, we haven't tamed the environment. We react to changes, but we can't control the weather that happens in it, the draughts that happen in dryer states, the hurricanes. It's just first world countries tend to have a better environment than say… Africa as a whole. Saying we've controlled the environment is kind of…

Granted, as well that we have less predators to deal with. But that's mainly in urban areas. In The more rural areas, they still have to deal with things like coyotes and other carnivorous pests. But they also don't just stay in a forest. Like they do in Equestria.

Compared to ponies, we're not very flighty.

But we still most likely, had more than ponies would have in an intial team sent to this planet. Unless of course Humans never existed and we're just talking about Earth being Equestria.

Ponies, according to most measurements, is about four feet tall. Not taking other things into account, this leaves them at about the size of a shetland pony. Which has a gestation period of 11 months.

3420880

I'm not sure if you were serious about the Royal Guard

The bit about magic?

Now, are we arguing about ponies fighting Humans, or just ponies surviving on Earth?

3420888

I'm not sure if you were serious about the Royal Guard

Very.

The bit about magic?

What about it?

Now, are we arguing about ponies fighting Humans, or just ponies surviving on Earth?

Both?

~Twi

3420892

A.) lolz

B.) Yes.

3420883

we haven't tamed the environment.

We have stores and vast agricultural systems to deal with things like drought. (When was the last time everyone in America was starving from a bad harvest?) We do stuff like drain swamps or level ground to make uninhabitable terrain into places we can happily live. We've chased away all the dangerous predators. You can walk across whole nations, unarmed, with no particular worry.

We might not control the weather. But we don't have particularly much to worry about from the natural world.

If a hurricane rolls through, the number of people who die are probably 'replaced' within a day. Disastrous weather is destructive, but it isn't really all that lethal.

But they also don't just stay in a forest. Like they do in Equestria.

And if they become a problem, we kill them.

Just like ponies would do, if they didn't have magic to Fluttershy them.

Ponies, according to most measurements, is about four feet tall. Not taking other things into account, this leaves them at about the size of a shetland pony. Which has a gestation period of 11 months.

We have seen different measurements. But even if that wasn't the case, a terrestrial pony is a horse. One that has become smaller due to living in marginal areas or via breeding. A Shetland pony is basically just a horse that's been dwarfed.

A small human still has a human length of gestation.

But there's no reason to think that ponykind started out larger and shrank down to their current height.

3420777

Is it possible for ponies to become the dominant species on Earth?

Yes! But first, as our sun orbits the galactic center, and our galaxy moves through the universe, we have to enter a region of the universe with a high concentration of the other fundamental force, magical energy. Once Earth is subject to the laws inherent in magical interactions, anything goes.

3420832 I know it's been a long time, but...among other surprising feats, we've seen Fluttershy giving martial-arts-based massages to a bear, and she's not a member of the superstrength subspecies (aka earth ponies)...they could probably kill a bear with HOOVES without breaking a sweat. (the bear incident happened before you posted, btw_

As for ponies being superstrong...pony strength is highly dependent on magic, and this is spelled out rather explicitly when tirek drains ponies of their magic and they become listless, though it has been demonstrated repeatedly throughout the show in subtle ways.

5835792

we've seen Fluttershy giving martial-arts-based massages to a bear,

That was a gag.

they could probably kill a bear with HOOVES without breaking a sweat.

Doubt it. Bears are fatty fucks and even big bullets can have a hard time killing them.

Unless it's a black bear. But grizzlies and polar bears? Nah. Those two would be having pony guts for breakfast.

5837319
Just a gag? Just a gag?I'm sorry did we watch the same lesson zero? Fluttershy's doing that to a bear is EXACTLY why Twilight was too scared to talk to her: it cannot just be a visual gag because that event is helping to drive the plot.

Furthermore, In the same episode, we see rainbow dash blowing up applejacks own barn by using herself as a wrecking ball. Oh, and even before she did that she was embedding chunks of wood into the ground by throwing them with her neck...again, this can't just be a gag because it's tied up with the plot.

In another episode, we see fluttershy embedded into a tree and be just fine. now, maybe this one really is a gag because it doesn't really matter how much damage she did to the tree, but...well...

In yet another episode while a bunch of ponies are going camping, Rainbow Dash plows through a bunch of trees to gather logs for everypony to sit on. The logs remain in place, so this being a one-off gag just does. Not. Compute.

Dash breaking the sound barrier is a major plot point around which a good chunk of the show revolves. how serious is breaking the sound barrier? well...
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0199a.shtml

One of the greatest challenges aircraft designers confront when building a supersonic plane is the effect of high temperature on the vehicle. These high temperatures are the result of kinetic heating caused by friction between the outside air and the skin of the rapidly moving aircraft. The following diagram illustrates just how hot different parts of the Concorde became at its cruise speed of Mach 2. The skin temperature ranged from a peak of 127°C (260°F) at the nose to 90°C (194°F) at the tail.

Ouch! That's hot! And that's an extremely aerodynamic jet.

Again, there is NO way that dash doing this is "just a gag".

Then we have the list of wildlife native to equestria, which includes Dragons, giant starbears, manticores, cockatrices, hydras, and magic flying tribbles that can eat just about anything if they've a mind to.

Real life bears may be thick with fat, but they don't stand much of a chance against the magically-strengthened, magic-wielding ponies. Even the earth ponies have magic, because you sure aren't kicking a tree and getting the apples to fall into neat piles with just physics.

If you want to convince me otherwise, provide some counter evidence. "those are just gags" doesn't cut it when it happens again and again and again.

5837365

Just a gag? Just a gag?

Yes. Because Twilight, if I remember correctly, comes to Fluttershy thinking she can help her because she's so weak and shy. But Twilight thinks she just watched Flutters slaughter a bear, but as it turns out she was only massaging him.

Twilight was too scared to talk to her: it cannot just be a visual gag because that event is helping to drive the plot.

No, it can definitely be a gag.

>Furthermore, In the same episode, we see rainbow dash blowing up applejacks own barn by using herself as a wrecking ball.

It doesn't take a lot of explosives to destroy a barn.

Also, it isn't very useful when your only way to start an explosion is to dive headfirst into incoming fire.

>Dash breaking the sound barrier is a major plot point around which a good chunk of the show revolves. how serious is breaking the sound barrier? well...

Oh, yay a single pony can break the sound barrier. And she's the only one who can do it... whoo.

Meanwhile, we have entire fleets capable of supersonic flight.

The Mane 6 can not be used as a basis for what ponies can do because they're not normal. It's like saying I can assassinate Bin Laden because a Navy Seal did it...

Then we have the list of wildlife native to equestria, which includes Dragons,

Seem to keep to themselves and occasionally prove themselves a nuisance. Not much else.

giant starbears

Artillery, tanks.

manticores,

Guns explosions...

cockatrices,

Their petrification is slow as shit and even if it isn't for that one particular soldier, there's other soldiers who will shoot the shit out of it. And then they will know not look it in the eyes.

hydras,

Explosions.

and magic flying tribbles that can eat just about anything if they've a mind to.

Flammenwerfers.

Real life bears may be thick with fat, but they don't stand a chance against the magically-strengthened, magic-wielding ponies.

And yet in all those instances, the ponies have not been shown killing any of those things, much less with their hooves without breaking a sweat. All of these things had to be beaten in unconventional ways.

If you want to convince me otherwise, provide some counter evidence. "those are just gags" doesn't cut it when it happens again and again and again.

Here's my counter evidence. We have not seen any evidence that ponies are capable of killing anything with their hooves. You might be able to make a case for the Mane having a chance. But they can't be used for a basis of pony abilities because they're not normal.

A bear from real-life, without any magic of its own to increase its durability? Yeah, I wouldn't bet on the bear, not even some of the bigger ones.

I sure as shit would.

5835792
5837365

Then we have the list of wildlife native to equestria

>Proceeds to post a list of pussies, pussies!

Pfft, ponies are screwed.

Seriously though, all of your points pretty much come down to 'It's magic', and considering that Earth lacks any and all magic that is displayed in Equestria, you can't automatically assume that everything will just work the same here as it does in the show. As another user already pointed out (over a hundred weeks ago, btw) our planet and the universe as a whole actually has to conform to some degree of physical sense. There's no magic to rotate the sun and moon around the planet, and there's no magic to aid ponies in their attempt to survive on this much larger and deadlier world.

5837486

Seriously though, all of your points pretty much come down to 'It's magic', and considering that Earth lacks any and all magic that is displayed in Equestria, you can't automatically assume that everything will just work the same here as it does in the show. As another user already pointed out (over a hundred weeks ago, btw) our planet and the universe as a whole actually has to conform to some degree of physical sense. There's no magic to rotate the sun and moon around the planet, and there's no magic to aid ponies in their attempt to survive on this much larger and deadlier world.

Assuming that the ponies still have their magic is necessary for this discussion, otherwise what we're looking at is a bunch of helpless ponies dying to random mice nibbling on them becuase they can barely even move, as per what happens when Tirek drains all their magic. Even if we hand wave this a bit and assume they can still move around reasonably well, magic is absolutely integral to the ponies of equestria and how they function as a culture. The unicorns use TK in their daily lives, the earth ponies appear to use hoof TK to grip stuff, the pegasi use magic to manipulate the weather on a daily basis (becuase they sure ain't using physics)...if you take away their magic, it's not the ponies of equestria anymore, but a completely different faction that is at most loosely based on them. They even-as you noted-move the sun on a daily basis.

I repeat: without magic, it's not the magic technicolor ponies of equestria anymore.

Removing magic for this discussion is dumb, please don't bring it up again.

5837392

Oh, yay a single pony can break the sound barrier. And she's the only one who can do it... whoo.

My POINT is that ponies have superhuman durability. The sheer heat seen should've injured her...except it didn't.

Meanwhile, we have entire fleets capable of supersonic flight.

Ok, lemme stop you right there, because you are assuming humanity is involved in this, and you have based a lot of your assumptions on humanity being present. THEY AREN"T. Because of this, many of your counterarguments are utterly irrelevant to the actual scenario.

Lets look at the very first post in this thread again, shall we?

Is it possible for ponies to become the dominant species on Earth? Yes they do lack opposable thumbs (characteristics that are theorised as important for our ascension to dominance on Earth) but we humans lack a lot of useful characteristics that other animals have.

This isn't asking whether ponies could compete with US after we've gotten established, it is clearly asking whether ponies could become the dominant species on their own terms.

Now, try again, and this time remove any arguments that are utterly, utterly irrelavant.

Have some more evidence, in the form of a joke thread that turned into a respect thread as the feats just kept coming:
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/perfectly-reasonable-my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-calcs.255294/

What's that? Can't be bothered to skim it for Gif's that still work, or think it's purely a joke thread?

Fine.

Now, the only point that reaaally mattered in there was your note about how the main 6 probably aren't the best source for pony durability. Very well, let's try to focus on feats that AREN"T the main 6:

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k626/DeAtHmArE/Hurricane%20Fluttershy/Bench-Press.gif
...Well, ok, maybe we don't have actual units for these weights....

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k626/DeAtHmArE/A%20Canterlot%20Wedding/Twilight-43.gif
now, how this ties into "not the main 6"...well, you know the bug bear and the tatzlwurm, and how twilight was blasting them without any visible damage? This is a feat for the local wildlife, indicating that they have either enhanced durability or singificant magical resistance.

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k626/DeAtHmArE/One%20Bad%20Apple/Babs-Seed-20.gif
Odd...engineering habits

Sweetie belle pulling a ridiculously loaded up cart:
http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k626/DeAtHmArE/Sleepless%20in%20Ponyville/Sweetie-Belle-4.gif

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k626/DeAtHmArE/Wonderbolt%20Academy/Rainbow-Dash-26.gif
[​IMG]
You probably wouldn't come out of such a spin in quite as good of shape.

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k626/DeAtHmArE/May%20the%20Best%20Pet%20Win/Rainbow-Dash-33.gif
more reminders that equestria may be paved with utopia, but there's a DnD esque deathworld if you start looking

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k626/DeAtHmArE/Hearts%20and%20Hooves%20Day/CMC-12.gif
Three kids telling physics to go and cry in a corner.

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k626/DeAtHmArE/A%20Friend%20In%20Deed/Pinkie-40.gif
Lotsa ponies casually bouncing from roof to roof.

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k626/DeAtHmArE/Putting%20Your%20Hoof%20Down/Fluttershy-12.gif
Who needs hands, pegasi are hexapods! (couldn't find a good non-main-6 for this one, but I figure it's pretty applicable)

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k626/DeAtHmArE/The%20Cutie%20Pox/Applebloom.gif
Applebloom lifting a bowling ball...with her mouth. What.

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k626/DeAtHmArE/Over%20a%20Barrel/Ouch.gif
Despite causing noteworthy destruction to a...support pillar? it is little more than dazed. In other words, more evidence of widespread magically enhanced durability.

the butterflies are hardcore enough that they can drag fluttershy around. Even if the point is that fluttershy has issues, that's still....um...yeaahhhh...http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k626/DeAtHmArE/Hurricane%20Fluttershy/Fluttershy-22.gif

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k626/DeAtHmArE/Baby%20Cakes/Pumpkin-Cake-4.gif
apparently, baby unicorns can warp reality and cause all kinds of mischief.

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k626/DeAtHmArE/A%20Dog%20and%20Pony%20Show/Massage.gif
Right now, try moving your arms like that. You can't, can you?

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k626/DeAtHmArE/Magical%20Mystery%20Cure/Hot-and-Cold.gif
the weather is being manipulated by rarity, but what's important is that, despite this snow being vaporized instantly away, the ponies are essentially fine aside from some sunburn.

Some conclusions from the comics (images no longer available:)

What we see here are several interesting insights into Equestrian culture:

-The CMC, 8-12 year olds, can both build a catapult, but also repeatedly obtain quantities of fireworks that when ignited and launched, cause damage on par with AAA shells.

-Plasmids and Vigors. Enough said. That stands right up there with death tomes and alicorn amulets sitting in curio shops.

-They consider it standard practice to have medical tents and airlifts for a fair, and consider a concussion induced by AAA fire to be the usual, based on the lack of reaction or aggressive punishment against the CMC.

Convinced, or do I need more evidence?

If you're not convinced yet, please come up with counter-evidence of your own, because from available evidence, ponies steamroll any real-life animal that fucks with them.

5837392 found another respect thread, this one seems to have fewer broken

pictures:https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/4f4qzi/respect_equestria_mlpfim/

5837546

Assuming that the ponies still have their magic is necessary for this discussion

No, it really isn't. In fact, determining whether they still have access to magic or not (and if indeed it still retains its Equestrian form and strength) is actually a major deciding factor in the discussion.

otherwise what we're looking at is a bunch of helpless ponies dying to random mice nibbling on them becuase they can barely even move, as per what happens when Tirek drains all their magic.

Not having access to magic is not equal to having an energy forcefully sucked directly out of you in one violent swoop by a hostile entity. Shock is a thing even without magic, after all.

Even even we hand wave this a bit and assume they can still move around reasonably well, magic is absolutely integral to the ponies of equestria and how they function as a culture.

Which is why whether they have still have access to Equestria's magic or not is an important factor in this discussion about the possibility of ponies rising to become the dominate species on Earth. Even without magic taken into account, they still have notable differences in anatomy and social ideals that also influence their chances.

The unicorns use TK in their daily lives,

Telekinesis is not the really best term used to describe the Equestrians' magical manipulation of objects. Also, the few times that unicorns are shown lifting up tiny objects, it's generally a task that they could easily accomplish with their hooves or teeth.

the earth ponies appear to use hoof TK to grip stuff

'appear to use hoof telekinesis'.

Please consider what you're arguing here.

if you take away their magic, it's not the ponies of equestria anymore, but a completely different faction that is at most loosely based on them.

So, in other words:

Ignore biological influences
Ignore social influences
Ignore psychological influences
Ignore historical influences
Ignore political influences
Ignore cultural influences

It's all about whether they can lift a needle and thread with their minds or buck all the apples off a tree.

Jeez, you have a really narrow-minded view of Equestrian society and culture. For shame.

I repeat: without magic, it's not the magic technicolor ponies of equestria anymore.

Correct, it's the magicless technicolor ponies of equestria.

Removing magic for this discussion is dumb, please don't bring it up again.

You don't get to dictate the terms of the debate just because they don't fit in with your constructed narrative, mate. As stated earlier, the topic of Equestrian magic and whether it remains functional or the same is one of the major deciding factors in this, you can't just brush it off and ignore it because you want to jam your fingers in your ears and not have to face opposition to your claims.

5837636

No, it really isn't. In fact, determining whether they still have access to magic or not (and if indeed it still retains its Equestrian form and strength) is actually a major deciding factor in the discussion.

And without magic this whole thing is nearly impossible to debate because damn near EVERYTHING they do is dependent upon magic to some extent. Without magic, you may as well take earth horses and make them sapient and add a bit of flexibility to their joints, because that's pretty much all you've got once you remove magic from them, assuming they can function AT ALL.

Not having access to magic is not equal to having an energy forcefully sucked directly out of you in one violent swoop by a hostile entity. Shock is a thing even without magic, after all.

...
No, I don't buy it. I don't buy it one bit. Come up with some evidence of a pony functioning just fine without magic and then we'll talk. Even Crysalis's anti-magic device did not cancel ALL types of magic, just most of them, so good luck finding a good example.

Which is why whether they have still have access to Equestria's magic or not is an important factor in this discussion about the possibility of ponies rising to become the dominate species on Earth. Even without magic taken into account, they still have notable differences in anatomy and social ideals that also influence their chances.

Their anatomy differences won't help them much sans magic, and their culture is so highly shaped by historical and magical forces that seperating them from magic is, again, stupid. Special talents and cutie marks are a BIG part of their culture, and are blatantly magical. Historical forces (such as the windigoes, which are an existential pressure to BE NICE) have shaped them which are blatantly magical.

Telekinesis is not the really best term used to describe the Equestrians' magical manipulation of objects. Also, the few times that unicorns are shown lifting up tiny objects, it's generally a task that they could easily accomplish with their hooves or teeth.

It's still a severe setback to suddenly not have telekinesis.

'appear to use hoof telekinesis'.
Please consider what you're arguing here.

I present to you this thing called EVIDENCE:

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k626/DeAtHmArE/Apple%20Family%20Reunion/Apple-Jack-15.gif

I've got more if this is, for whatever reason, insufficient.

So, in other words:
Ignore biological influences
Ignore social influences
Ignore psychological influences
Ignore historical influences
Ignore political influences
Ignore cultural influences
It's all about whether they can lift a needle and thread with their minds or buck all the apples off a tree.

Jeez, you have a really narrow-minded view of Equestrian society and culture. For shame.

Nearly every one of these is shaped or has been shaped by the presence of magic. Removing magic would completely change these things.

Biology? Meet springy unicorn horns which are often dull and nearly useless to impale things with due to being obscenely flexible, wings that are too small to work without magic, cutie marks, and ludicrous jaw strength. So, again, most likely shaped by magic. Oh, and I'm still not very convinced by your counter argument regarding Tirek, as you have no new evidence for me to consider.

Social influences? Magic played a big, BIG role in getting the main 6 to get together. In other words, magic has been shown to influence their social interaction. This may not be a common occurance, per se, but the influence is certainly there. I also have a theory that a secondary reason for equestrians spending so much effort on being friendly, is that being friendly is a good way to keep the local mage from going crazy and brainwashing you. Oh, not to mention pegasi can sleep in cloud houses outside the convenient reach of the typical earth pony, the community bonding activities such as winter wrap up which don't work without magic (even though unicorn magic is disallowed, they're using magic...)

Historical influences? Their HISTORY has been shaped by magic from the word GO, such as the Discordian era when Chaos ruled the land, the Windigoes, the disapearance of an entire city-state called the crystal empire, and the tirek incident. Oh, and Nightmare Moon. Can't forget that one.
Political influences? Celestia and Luna are in charge in large part because they raise the sun and moon, and their extreme longevity likely comes from magic in some way. Similarly, Twilight Sparkle was picked for the next princess slot in large part because she had such extrordinary magical power, and was formally elevated after she pulled off a magical stunt.

Cultural influences: ponies have a very friendly culture in large part because of magic. Becoming friendly was, in the past, the only way to fend off the windigoes. No windigoes, no pressure to be quite so friendly. Similarly with animal life: magic lets them domesticate animal life to an obscene degree. Without the ability to domesticate animal life so extensively, they will likely have a different view of animals. Shall I go on?

Conclusion: magic shapes every facet of pony life.

Correct, it's the magicless technicolor ponies of equestria.

See above.

You don't get to dictate the terms of the debate just because they don't fit in with your constructed narrative, mate. As stated earlier, the topic of Equestrian magic and whether it remains functional or the same is one of the major deciding factors in this, you can't just brush it off and ignore it because you want to jam your fingers in your ears and not have to face opposition to your claims.

...

*sigh*

Three things to consider:

1. in a debate like this, it is the default assumption that everyone's abilities and technology continues to function. otherwise, situations such as "star trek vs star wars" bog down into an utter mess of "oh, they don't have hyperdrive and all their technology breaks down". One site I hang out on, spacebattles, formalizes this as rule 13:

Physical laws and general reality are assumed to be contiguous and interoperable within the boundaries of common sense in a versus debate. This means that when two sides are pitted against each other, we must assume that their abilities will work as described wherever they fight in the debate, so as to not have debates devolve into mass hysterics about how one side's abilities cease to exist when they cross the threshold. This is not limited to things such as hyperspace, subspace, etc, but also to personal abilities such as ki, chakra, etc etc. If one side has a special "force", the other side is assumed to be able to interact with it to some degree, or else Vs Debates ceases to be interactive"

2. You want to argue that the debate can be kept meaningful by arguing things other than raw fighting capacity, such as culture, history, etc. As I've argued, however, the problem with those things...is that they, in turn, are themselves highly dependent on, or at least heavily influenced by, magic. As such, attempting to argue "ponies without magic" very quickly begins to resemble a completely original faction with only a surface resemblance to the ponies of MLP, which could turn out any number of ways depending upon what assumptions you make.

3. The OP making this thread makes no mention of the loss of magic, simply points out that ponies "have some advantages and disadvantages".

Do you truly wish to keep pursuing this line of "ponies without magic"?

5837581

My POINT is that ponies have superhuman durability.

No. RD has super human durability.

Ok, lemme stop you right there, because you are assuming humanity is involved in this, and you have based a lot of your assumptions on humanity being present. THEY AREN"T.

My entire assumption under this thread was that they were threatening Humanity's spot as the Apex Predator of this world.

This isn't asking whether ponies could compete with US after we've gotten established, it is clearly asking whether ponies could become the dominant species on their own terms.

In that case, I still disagree.

Everfree Forest is considered unnatural in Equestria. And it is literally a forest that acts like Humans expect nature to act. Now, take Everfree, upscale by about a million times and you now have Earth.

I don't see the ponies surviving very long.

Besides the fact that they're on Earth now, which means they have to confirm to our physics. Going supersonic isn't deadly for people. Humans have done it before.

Felix Baumgartner hit Mach 1.25 and survived.

now, how this ties into "not the main 6"...well, you know the bug bear and the tatzlwurm, and how twilight was blasting them without any visible damage? This is a feat for the local wildlife, indicating that they have either enhanced durability or singificant magical resistance.

Fairly certain a neither Tatzlwurms or Bug Bears are considered normal either.

Odd...engineering habits

The hell does this have to do with anything?

Sweetie belle pulling a ridiculously loaded up cart:

What? She's pulling bags out of a cart.

You probably wouldn't come out of such a spin in quite as good of shape.

Well no duh, and on our Earth she wouldn't either. Our physics are completely different from theirs.

more reminders that equestria may be paved with utopia, but there's a DnD esque deathworld if you start looking

Yeah, but those things stick to a canyon and mind themselves. They don't move around. Super easy to avoid.

Three kids telling physics to go and cry in a corner.

Equestria's physics says this is perfectly logical. I'd like to see them try to reach a rainbow on our Earth with our physics.

Lotsa ponies casually bouncing from roof to roof.

Musical numbers don't count for physical feats. A bunch of bs happens in most musical numbers including those that happen on Earth.

Who needs hands, pegasi are hexapods! (couldn't find a good non-main-6 for this one, but I figure it's pretty applicable)

And I can open a bag with my hands! So what?

Applebloom lifting a bowling ball...with her mouth. What.

Your gif doesn't show her lifting a bowling ball. It shows her opening her mouth and suck on a bowling ball.

Despite causing noteworthy destruction to a...support pillar? it is little more than dazed. In other words, more evidence of widespread magically enhanced durability.

Yeah, because their physics says this is possible. Now, cows have tough heads, but if they tried this in our world, they'd be dead.

the butterflies are hardcore enough that they can drag fluttershy around. Even if the point is that fluttershy has issues, that's still....um...yeaahhhh...

That was another gag.

apparently, baby unicorns can warp reality and cause all kinds of mischief.

Pumpkin isn't considered normal either.

Right now, try moving your arms like that. You can't, can you?

I have no idea how this is useful to living on Earth, but while I may not be able to move my arms as fast he can, hands can move pretty quickly.

the weather is being manipulated by rarity, but what's important is that, despite this snow being vaporized instantly away, the ponies are essentially fine aside from some sunburn.

Once again, it's Equestria's physics that makes this possible. But put it on Earth and this won't work.

-The CMC, 8-12 year olds, can both build a catapult, but also repeatedly obtain quantities of fireworks that when ignited and launched, cause damage on par with AAA shells.

That was a single plot point introduced for humor. It wouldn't be very funny if all it was able to do was blow off a hoof. Actually, blowing off a hoof wouldn't be funny. But internal injuries are!

-Plasmids and Vigors.

Are they talking about potions?

That stands right up there with death tomes

I don't remember any death tomes being in MLP.

and alicorn amulets sitting in curio shops.

The Alicorn Amulet was a lost artifact that pretty much no one knew about except for a single psychopath whose sole goal in life was to gain power and she had the time and life to research it and discover where it was.

If you're not convinced yet, please come up with counter-evidence of your own, because from available evidence, ponies steamroll any real-life animal that fucks with them.

I would agree if it was Earth animals coming to Equestria. But it's Equestrians coming to Earth. So our universe's physics says, no... Mother Nature will steamroll over the ponies.

5837790

My entire assumption under this thread was that they were threatening Humanity's spot as the Apex Predator of this world.

Well, you assumed poorly, because that's a first contact scenario not what was in the OP, and is a whole 'nother can of worms...unless what you mean is humanity developing side-by-side with the ponies and competing, starting from a primitive state, in which case, the answer is "we need way more information on pony history and when this fight is starting before we can START this debate because there are just so many variables we're flat-out missing". -for instance, it's not clear how much technology ponies lost during the discordian era, nor do we know what tech curves they followed...

As for "mother nature will beat the ponies"...Look, in "X vs Y" scenarios, one must assume that BOTH side's powersets work just fine, otherwise you get really trivial debates (Star trek vs Star Wars, but star trek physics are in play but Star Wars physics are not! therefore Star Trek wins because all the Star Wars technology all breaks down!).

On top of this, as I've argued with the other guy, pony culture and history have been so thoroughly influenced by magic (including one kingdom that went down because of a love poison), that separating ponies from their magic [even if doing so doesn't turn them into listless cripples, something I am FAR from convinced about] causes so many changes to their culture, politics, society, history, etc. that you may as well invent a brand new faction whole-cloth.

P.S have you ever watched Roger Rabbit? it's surprisingly relevant.

5837486
5837790

Y'know what you guys, lemme put it this way:

Say I want to discuss what would happen if a group of 20 or so level 5 dnd adventurers wound up on our world with the goal of looting a nuclear bomb. Does it make any sense to go "well they don't have magic, so the spellcasters are now useless and everything depends upon the rogue" when discussing this scenario?

5837764

And without magic this whole thing is nearly impossible to debate because damn near EVERYTHING they do is dependent upon magic to some extent. Without magic, you may as well take earth horses and make them sapient and add a bit of flexibility to their joints, because that's pretty much all you've got once you remove magic from them, assuming they can function AT ALL.

you may as well take earth horses and make them sapient and add a bit of flexibility to their joints, because that's pretty much all you've got once you remove magic from them

Once again:

Ignoring their history (not all pones worked together in the past, remember?)
Ignoring their society
Solely focusing on their magic

For shame.

No, I don't buy it. I don't buy it one bit. Come up with some evidence of a pony functioning just fine without magic and then we'll talk.

Taken directly from the *shudder* Season Six Finale transcript:

"Thorax: I've been trying to tell you! Nothing other than changeling magic works here. Chrysalis' throne is carved from an ancient dark stone that soaks up outside magic the same way changelings soak up love. It's how she keeps the hive safe. [magic fizzles]"
"Trixie: [to Starlight] So, uh, what kind of plan were you thinking?"
"Starlight Glimmer: Without magic, I have no idea. But nopony else is coming. So somepony better come up with something."

Source

Even Crysalis's anti-magic device did not cancel ALL types of magic, just most of them, so good luck finding a good example.

Correct, it cancelled all types of magic except for changeling magic. This includes pony magic and Discord magic.

Good luck trying to argue against the show's canon, brudda.

Their anatomy differences won't help them much sans magic,

Explain why. They have increased running speed, natural fur to help against lower temperatures, they can gain nutrients from plant life on a much greater scale to name a few advantages. Focusing on their magic doesn't cover the question.

that seperating them from magic is, again, stupid.

No, once again, the question of if they have magic or not is vital to the question asked. If you are unwilling to factor in that question, when the odds are against them having access to magic on Earth, then you're just trying to pervert the result.

What reason do you have to believe that they will have access to magic on Earth? Please explain this.

It's still a severe setback to suddenly not have telekinesis.

severe

It really isn't. As previously stated, they are shown to be able to lift things with their hooves and mouths. Being able to magically lift objects (no physic powers involved) is an advantage, but not a necessary.

I present to you this thing called EVIDENCE:
http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k626/DeAtHmArE/Apple%20Family%20Reunion/Apple-Jack-15.gif
I've got more if this is, for whatever reason, insufficient.

I was mocking your use of the term 'hoof telekinesis', as in implying that pony hooves are capable of projecting a psychic force that is able to lift objects. Ponies being able to lift things in their hooves is clearly shown in the show, but the method of how it functions is not confirmed. Hence why I questioned the use of 'hoof telekinesis' in your argument.

in a debate like this, it is the default assumption that everyone's abilities and technology continues to function. otherwise, situations such as "star trek vs star wars" bog down into an utter mess of "oh, they don't have hyperdrive and all their technology breaks down".

it is the default assumption

No, there is no 'default assumption' at all. All factors need to be examined and compared otherwise you can end up with a biased and inaccurate result (compared to the general 'accuracy' of fictional debates, of course). Having a 'default assumption' like this only seeks to save one side from a likely disadvantage.

Magic is not equal to technology. A battery powered torch is going to pretty much work anywhere as long as the laws of physics, light, and chemical reactions stay pretty much the same.

A fireball spell drawing upon a source of 'magic' is far less predictable and guaranteed.

One site I hang out on, spacebattles

formalizes this as rule 13:

>Proceeds to post a rule from some website irrelevant to the debate
>OP question is 'Is it possible for ponies to become the dominant species on Earth?' As in adapting to the Earth itself
>Rule posted is in relation to determining the consequences of stand-up military conflicts between fictional sides from popular media

Congrats, your posted rule doesn't even apply to the scenario in question. Besides, are you really stooping so low as trying to impose a rule that is used on some unrelated internet forum? For shame.

You want to argue that the debate can be kept meaningful by arguing things other than raw fighting capacity, such as culture, history, etc. As I've argued, however, the problem with those things...is that they, in turn, are themselves highly dependent on, or at least heavily influenced by, magic.

Hence the appeal of discussing how it could be possible without magic in play. How would the ponies adapt to the different environment, if they are even capable of adapting. Ponies are shown to be able to live without magic (once again, from the quoted section of the show itself which is sole MLP canon) so not having magic isn't 'stupid' or 'dumb'. Once again, by stating that the ponies must have access to their magic and dismissing the possibility of there being no magic available, without even being willing to explain why they should have magic from a mechanical standpoint, you're just trying to dictate your own terms onto the question.

If the entirety of Equestria (including the Main Six) were suddenly transported to a magically-barren Earth, they would still be the same Main Six and Equestrians, just lacking the use of magic. Taking away their ability to use magic (based on the fact that no such magic exists on Earth itself, there's no tree of harmony bullshit, etc) does drastically reduce their chance of success, but that reduction of success is no reason to just throw away the possibility. You don't want your precious ponies to lose their magic-fueled abilities no-matter what, because you are dedicated to seeing them succeed at the task being discussed.

You are arguing from a heavily biased position, and it's showing.

3. The OP making this thread makes no mention of the loss of magic, simply points out that ponies "have some advantages and disadvantages".

OP is asking a question that prompts people to discuss the scenario of ponies adapting to Earth and becoming the dominant species. OP doesn't mention a lot of things, and leaves it up to the thread viewers to argue their cases and discuss the evidence.

OP also doesn't state that the ponies retain all access to their magic despite entering a universe/reality with no proven magic at all.

You're now attempting to twist (or deliberately misinterpret) the original question to suit your needs, arguing that the OP doesn't specify the 'no-magic' position that I'm arguing from. Seems like a desperation tactic.

Do you truly wish to keep pursuing this line of "ponies without magic"?

Yes, as already explained, you can't just dismiss the idea of the ponies not having their magic because it doesn't suit your own arguments. I have provided the fact that there is no proven 'magic' on Earth that can possibly enable their abilities, and you have returned with 'Well, that means that they aren't the ponies from the show then' as your only counter-argument.

I mean, if only we had a show example of ponies functioning without their magi- oh wait...

We do.

5837834

Y'know what you guys, lemme put it this way:
Say I want to discuss what would happen if a group of 20 or so level 5 dnd adventurers wound up on our world with the goal of looting a nuclear bomb.

Using Dnd as an example instead of superiour White Wolf RPGs.

Does it make any sense to go "well they don't have magic, so the spellcasters are now useless and everything depends upon the rogue" when discussing this scenario?

Yes, it does make sense. Dnd exists in a fictional setting with magic that relies on A. The surrounding Arcane magical energy of the setting that can be manipulated and B. The 'Divine' magic that is granted by the gods and divine beings that exist within that setting. If you take the adventurers away from both the magic and gods in that setting, then you are stripping them of the powers and abilities granted by those gods and magical sources.

Now, if they were carrying a kind of magical 'battery' or possibly enchantments, then the spellcasters may have the means to utilise limited magical spells. However apart from that, since there are no dnd divine beings nor dnd magic on our planet, they're pretty much shit out of luck when it comes to the spellcasting front.

A female 'baddie' in an Exalted game took away my male character's magical abilities while we were engaged in a fight. She quickly received a knife in her gut instead of a spell. Magic users don't always need magic to achieve something.

and everything depends upon the rogue

"Oh shit, now our plan to steal an item depends on the guy focused on stealth and thievery, we're so fucking screwed!"

5839859

Ignoring their history (not all pones worked together in the past, remember?)

I am NOT ignoring their history. Rather, I have pointed out that the very history you want to talk about has been shaped by magic so thoroughly that we really can't ignore magic. Even the pre-windigo times were shaped by magic, as the unicorns abused their monopoly on sun and moon control to demand food from the earth ponies, and the pegasi abused their monopoly on weather control to do the same.

Ignoring their society

Pointing out that magic is a BIG part of their society is not ignoring their society.

Using Dnd as an example instead of superiour White Wolf RPGs.

This is what we call a red herring.

Enough. You might have some points there, but unless you can debate in good faith we cannot have a proper debate.

5840244

>Ignores the part where his argument is disproved by canon
>Ignores the part where his hypothetical dnd scenario is completely blown away by examples of the dnd universe itself
>Ignores how he was called out on trying to twist the OP question to his advantage
>Ignores the part where he tried to impliment a spacebattles rule into the debate to save face
>Focuses on the filler parts in the hopes that I don't notice
>Pulls the 'If you can't *snort* debate in good faith you invalidate the debate' get-out-of-debate-free card'

BTFO son, you still haven't even acknowledged that the canon transcript provided proves your point completely wrong. Good luck in trying to duck and weave out of that.

Enough. You might have some points there, but unless you can debate in good faith we cannot have a proper debate.

So, I take it this is you throwing in the towel after I provided you with direct canon evidence that utterly destroys your argument of: "Assuming that the ponies still have their magic is necessary for this discussion, otherwise what we're looking at is a bunch of helpless ponies dying to random mice nibbling on them because they can barely even move, as per what happens when Tirek drains all their magic."

And of course, you try to save face by accusing me of not following your arbitrary debating rules and letting you win.

Head off back to Spacebattles, champ. I hear they're in need of someone to debate Star-Trek/Star-Wars dick sizes with.

5841183 I'm not upset because I'm "losing", as you seem to think. No, i'm upset with you because of this THIS comment:

Ignoring their history (not all pones worked together in the past, remember?)

Except, thing is, I didn't ignore their history. Lemme quote myself:

Historical forces (such as the windigoes, which are an existential pressure to BE NICE) have shaped them which are blatantly magical.

and again here:

Historical influences? Their HISTORY has been shaped by magic from the word GO, such as the Discordian era when Chaos ruled the land, the Windigoes, the disapearance of an entire city-state called the crystal empire, and the tirek incident. Oh, and Nightmare Moon. Can't forget that one.

so no, I have not been ignoring their history. Quite the contrary: I've brought it up to try and make my point.

As for the pre-hearthswarming period you are likely talking about there...guess what? Magic played a big role in the that era too! The pegasi were abusing their monopoly on weather control (magic!) to extort the earth ponies, and the unicorns abused their monopoly on sun+moon moving (magic!) to extort the earth ponies...and given that "good with plants" is a racial trait for them, they were probably using magic to help grow that food so that they could keep up with the demand.

That said, I have an argument regarding the metaphysics of whether or not ponies should still be able to use magic or not that I haven't used (and one which uses YOUR fundamental assumptions on the issue, now that I know what those are), but I'm not going to bother until you've retracted your claim that I ignored their history.

5841198
>Ignores the part where his argument is disproved by canon
>Ignores the part where his hypothetical dnd scenario is completely blown away by examples of the dnd universe itself
>Ignores how he was called out on trying to twist the OP question to his advantage
>Ignores the part where he tried to impliment a spacebattles rule into the debate to save face
>Focuses on the filler parts in the hopes that I don't notice

Hey Fractal, member this?

"Thorax: I've been trying to tell you! Nothing other than changeling magic works here. Chrysalis' throne is carved from an ancient dark stone that soaks up outside magic the same way changelings soak up love. It's how she keeps the hive safe. [magic fizzles]"
"Trixie: [to Starlight] So, uh, what kind of plan were you thinking?"
"Starlight Glimmer: Without magic, I have no idea. But nopony else is coming. So somepony better come up with something."

Once again, good luck trying to skip over this one.

but I'm not going to bother until you've retracted your claim

I'm not going to bother

"Oh, I totally have the answer that will completely destroy your debate, but I won't share it until you apologise to me."

Go ahead, try and explain away the canon example with metaphysics.

Ok. now that I've cooled off a bit, we need to get some of the fundamentals out of the way.

First off: I believe that fundamentally, in scenarios like this, everybody involved should keep the abilities native to their own universe by default, otherwise most of these debates are...dumb. Now, I've been trying to convince you that this assumption is dumb via reductio ad absurdum (since ponies-magic=their everything breaks down), but it's plain that you aren't budging.

...
Which means I need to start from scratch with an entirely different approach. You said:

Now, if they were carrying a kind of magical 'battery' or possibly enchantments, then the spellcasters may have the means to utilise limited magical spells. However apart from that, since there are no dnd divine beings nor dnd magic on our planet, they're pretty much shit out of luck when it comes to the spellcasting front.

So....before I waste my time making an argument that isn't going to work, yes or no: will proving that ponies generate magic internally be sufficien to prove that the ponies in this scenario should have their magic?

sigh. seems i missed your post by a few minutes while typing my "ok i've calmed down bit".

>Ignores the part where his argument is disproved by canon

See below where I finally get around to addressing the issue of the changeling stone in-depth now that i've had the chance to calm down.

>Ignores the part where his hypothetical dnd scenario is completely blown away by examples of the dnd universe itself

Lumped under "you have some points BUT".

>Ignores how he was called out on trying to twist the OP question to his advantage

Standard procedure in these things is to take the scenario presented in the OP as the default assumptions. Up until I came along, nobody explicitly declared they were deviating from that.

>Ignores the part where he tried to impliment a spacebattles rule into the debate to save face

and YOU completely missed the important bit of that, which was the reasoning FOR that rule. I quoted that bit too, you know.

>Focuses on the filler parts in the hopes that I don't notice

...
YOU wanted to go "lets debate all this other stuff, it totally doesn't involve magic", and I humored you. Then you not only completely ignored my rebuttal, you brought up "you never made this argument" as a POINT, which is not only extremely bad debating, but it is infuriating.

NOW THEN. ONTO THE ARGUMENT ITSELF!

1. Seperating ponies from their magic is absurd.
A. Their history, culture, and everything else you brought up under the umbrella of "hey, lets talk about all this stuff INSTEAD of magic" has been shaped by magic.
B. 90% of what the ponies do involves magic with even a cursory inspection.
C. A pony without magic is listless and essentially helpless.
C.I: the only time we see a pony stripped of ALL magic, they become listless:
C.II: you made the counterargument that having it ripped out of you is not the same as it all disapearing. However, I counter with the case of Luna, Celestia, and Cadence willingly channeling all their magic to twilight. They become listless.
C.III: I am aware of the changeling stone. However, I protest that a. it does NOT, in fact, mop up all non-changeling magic in the area...because their cutie marks are still around. b. Cutie marks are highly magical (see (2). c. Additionally, the description of a thing does not always perfectly match what the thing actually does; hyperbole, brief summaries that dont tell you everything, liars, and characters being mistaken are all things that can happen in a work of fiction. dThorax falls under the category of "brief summary".
C.IV therefore, there is no example of a pony being COMPLETELY without magic and being able to...well...do very much.

2. Cutie marks are made of magic, not pigmentation:
a. When tirek steals ALL their magic, the cutie marks fade away. (right around 45 seconds)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se7qXFdJhmo
b. when the princesses gave their magic up, their cutie marks vanished. (1:48)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S143d1-EnQg
c. in case the above were not quite enough evidence, When applebloom gives herself fake cutie marks, they come with a special talent. Furthermore, when their destinies were switched, the main 6 sans twilight sung about how "and it's what my cutie mark is telling me", suggesting communication between the pony and the mark. (these two bits would, I admit, be of little worth on their own, but as a supporting argument they work just fine)

Overall, even if you still don't buy my argument regarding the changeling stone, asking "how would ponies fare without magic in our world" is a dumb question because we have very little ability to predict how they'd turn out without magic. Too much of what makes them them has been shaped by magic to meaningfully answer that question.

5841213 whoops, I forgot to tag you. The most Relevant argument is in the previous post.