I've noticed a disturbing trend among recent stories being submitted about our favourite bacon-haired pony/human/thing, and it all has to do with the December 2014 issue of the MLPEG comic Holiday Special, and the result of which leads to Sunset taking or attempting to take her life.

In the immortal Potterism of one Colonel Sherman T Potter:

And here's why:

First off, Sunset, as a character would not be the type to take her own life, especially after something as mundane as being accused of posting embarrassing things about other people on the EG equivalent of MySpace. She has a strong, independent personality, and her willingness to reform after the first EQ movie goes to show that she has a strong will to live.

Sure she has her sad moody moments of self-doubt, but nothing even coming close to depression, making suicide a very very unlikely possibility (And I'm only saying that its a possibility because sometimes very strong people do take their lives with little or no explanation or warning.)

It is my strong opinion that using Suicide as a plot point stemming from the events of that comic that it's extremely forced at best and Mary-Sue levels of wish fulfilment at worst. Especially when you have to factor in that it would be extremely out of character for her friends to even allow something like that to go that far. Not to mention that it's very poor taste, almost to the level of being beyond the pale.

A lot of these stories try and tell it in short one-offs with less than 3k words. You can't tell a story with such a sensitive/controversial/emotional plot element in so short a story.'

And the way's she's portrayed of doing it, Freezing herself to death, really? I've had Hypothermia, it would be a very painful, agonizing way to die.

As someone who's actually attempted suicide (Having your stomach pumped for the 50 Tylenol-3's you took is not a pleasant experience), I find that the use of this subject matter as a shock gimmick to get views/comments/upvotes a little insulting.

Lastly, I just recently suffered the loss of my Fiance to suicide. I said goodnight to her on the phone, went to work, and got a call when I got home in the morning from her friend saying she was gone.

Unless you've experienced it, you have no idea what its like to be shocked to the point that your entire body is numb.

The total devastating, wracking sobs of grief.

The sleepless nights week after week where your mind is filled with disbelief and questions of what I could have done differently. I'm talking about the kind of insomnia that only prescription sleep aids can help.

Then there's the total unjustified anger at the person who died followed by the crippling guilt when you realize what you've been thinking.

Then you're left with acceptance of the fact that they're gone, followed by the constant reminders of things you see that you want to tell them about or rolling over in the morning to check your phone to see if they've sent you a message followed by disappointment.

That's what I've gone through for the last 4 months, and that's what I have to deal with for the rest of my life.

I have no issues with people writing stories like that, but if you're going to do it, do it right, anything less than that is insulting and in poor taste.

6188536 TBH I can see the Anon thing basically breaking a friendship, but I agree that she's not weak-willed enough to want to commit suicide over that kind of thing when it happened a single time. Then again, unless the description is freakingly, amazingly interesting the moment it says "anon-a-miss" in it, I skip it all together.

As an addition, because I wrote that from the beginning of the whole thing, suicide seems to be the default-drama-draw for a lot of beginning writers here, and of course the vast majority of them wouldn't have any experience dealing with suicidal feelings. It's often downplayed and turned into a circus instead of the deep emotional process that it really is.

6188536
The fact that this got two downvotes before any replies just goes to show that there is still a lot of work needed to do to turn this group into something pleasant.

By all means, enjoy Sunset Shimmer however you like. Write whatever you want. But if you're interested in writing a good story, then heed this post. Don't think that if you rely on shock value of sensitive subjects that you're writing a good story.

There are a lot of shallow people.

6188536

First off, Sunset, as a character would not be the type to take her own life, especially after something as mundane as being accused of posting embarrassing things about other people on the EG equivalent of Myspace.

Okay, I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate here and say that it was a little more severe than you're letting on. After the events of Equestria Girls, Sunset was one of the most hated and untrusted people in the school, and it was abundantly clear from how everyone else acted around her and treated her. No matter how much she tried to prove herself a better person, no one other than her friends were buying it until the very end of the 2nd movie. Skip ahead to the comic, which presumably takes place not long after the events of Rainbow Rocks. Just as she's starting to get a taste of the fruits of her labor, everything she's worked so hard for is ripped away from her. Not only did the entire school despise her once more (as shown in several of the more intense panels, where it looks like everyone's one step away from socking her), but even her own friends abandon her, leaving her completely and utterly alone, despite everything she went through to prove herself. While I do think Sunset is a strong character, having everything you've ever worked for being torn away from you at a moment's notice, leaving you alone in a world that suddenly hates you would take a heavy toll on anyone. While I agree that a lot of these "anon-a-death" stories bring in her wanting to die way too early, and as a result, are generally pretty poor (even with all of that, I think it would take a fair amount of time in this environment before the idea of death came up for her), I don't think it's entirely out of the question, if it is given proper time and development.

Then again, the source material itself is already pretty shaky with characterization anyway, so I guess it's not much of a surprise that fan work spawned from it wouldn't handle the characters well either. Generally speaking, I just ignore Anon-a-miss stories. They rarely do much for me.

6188574
Gunna have to disagree with you, as what you said is still a stretch. After everything that's happened at the school in the first two movies, I have trouble believing that the whole school would turn on her in a heartbeat, which, like you said, is why the characterization of the Holiday Special comic is 'shaky'.

Ms Bacon-Hair would probably have a moment of self-doubt and some sadness, followed by being angry, not depressed.

6188536
I don't get this whole Anon-a-Miss trend at all. I mean, this comic sucked a big one, but it somehow refuses to die. Guess people use it solely because best human + cheap feels = horse fame nowadays, even with hardly any effort from the author. It's not just Sunset, though - I'm pretty sure there's a suicide fic for every main character. And that in most of them, the topic is handled with all the subtlety of a flaming trainwreck ramming into a cesspool.

6188536

6188583
Thank you both, you have just summed up all that really needs to be said about Sunset dealing with Anon-A-Miss stories in general. It's a sub-genre of stories that needs to die, but refuses to do so.

Wait, these stories were actually based off an event in the comics? Someone actually spread some sort of rumors or something about her that caused her friends to abandon her? And I thought the Reflections comic was dark. That's even worse than the end of A Canterlot Wedding Part 1, and I thought I'd never say that (one of the main reasons I want Chrysalis dead so much). Even that one moment in the movie was less depressing than that ACW scene, so it has to be pretty bad if I'm saying it's worse than that.

Of course, we're talking about the comics, which also depicted Chrysalis killing a kitten, Rarity in a rather family-unfriendly scene, and the aforementioned Reflections having the good Sombra being forced to turn evil, but still. (And at least they're proven non-canon with the whole siren thing)

6188589
The comics were never canon. It isn't something you prove.

They become canon if and only when the staff in charge of the cartoon say they are.

A lot of the shitty "anon-a-miss" stories are written under the mistaken impression that the comics are some amount of canon and therefore count when depicting how Sunset Shimmer's character is.

A lot of the "don't diss my anonamiss" backlash is based on that idiocy.

6188536
Well now I feel horribly guilty for having contributed to this mess in the first place.

6188583
In my defense, I wrote my Anon-A-Miss story in order to better justify how it could have happened - moving it to between the events of the first two films rather than post-RR, for example. I'm saddened to say that it didn't quite work the way I'd hoped, and that I definitely could have done a better job with it.

6188553
6188574
Personally I love to see what kind of spins people can put on the Anon-A-Miss Incident...the four that stick out in my mind right now would be Dawn, Hell and High Water, a story where the Wondercolts (the school soccer team) stick with Sunset, and my personal favorite Myriad Thoughts. When I'm at a computer I will totally edit this.

*chuckles* that's why it called fan fiction stories

6188582
Perhaps. To be perfectly honest, I find the entire premise behind the comic absolutely absurd, and I don't know why it's such a popular thing to write about. As I said, I was just playing Devil's Advocate and saying that there was a bit more to the Anon-a-miss event than just embarrassing messages. Whether or not you could see the comic's events actually happening in the world of EQG (Which I can't) is another argument entirely.

6188536

Especially when you have to factor in that it would be extremely out of character for her friends to even allow something like that to go that far.

"Out of Character"
That's something the MLP comics thrive upon. They will always bend the characters around the narrative, as opposed to building a narrative around the characters:
- Someone has to be an ass out of the blue, it'll happen.
- Someone becomes an antagonist for arbitrary reasons, it'll happen.
- Someone does something stupid to get from A to B, guess what, it'll happen.

That's why I refuse to acknowledge that the characters printed on those pages are the same ones we've known and loved for the past seven years.

6188598
Eh, what can you expect from a poorly written re-hash of Ponyville Confidential.

6188536

Many writers tends towards angsty melodrama, is the thing.

I would argue that Sunset could be driven to that point in the way some of the fics ramp things up. Her friends hated her, the other students hated her, sometimes the school staff acted against her, sometimes she was assaulted multiple times, sometimes she was homeless, sometimes she had no contact with Twilight, and so forth. The actions in the comic itself definitely wouldn’t have of led to suicide, but a lot of the fics don’t use just them. The usual reasoning goes along the lines of Sunset being left completely alone in the world with all of the work she did not only undone, but it convincing her she couldn’t trust her closest friends and that anyone could undo her work and destroy everything for her again. Yes, there are plenty of shitty ones in the mix, but plenty do attempt to offer the reasoning.

6188583
There’s pretty much tons of every kind of fic for every character. The Holiday Special took two of the most hated (very unjustly if you ask me) moments from FiM (the walk away from ACW and Ponyville Confidential) and actually did them poorly. Plus, it makes an excellent breakaway point like ACW did.

6188554
Whoops, fat thumbed dislike... Fixed that.

6188605
This trope is older than radio.

6188605

Many Amateur/Inexperienced writers tends towards angsty melodrama, is the thing.

Fixed that for ya...

Just because 'its a thing', doesn't make it excusable. I understand that every writer needs their start, but if you're unwilling to change, you should be called out for it in critique.

6188536 Agreed, that comic was crap as it is, and all the cheap Suicide for feelsy clicks is bullshit. Even at absolute worst, things just turned utterly to shit there, the worst Sunset would do is just say some form of "Alright, buck all you stupid hairless monkey, I'm going back to where shit isn't total fucking crap." and jump through the portal back to Equestria.

Hell, the comic itself makes itself utterly impossible in the first place. By having her have the journal, thus being post RR, and yet claiming she had her first sleepover with the girls in it, when she had one in RR meaning it both can't be before, and can't be after RR, so can't exist at all.

6188619
HAH! didn't notice that gigantic plot hole... Have an Upvote sir.

6188536

I had a hard time finding a positive reaction image, so I settled for this one.

6188619
How have I never noticed that before? Yet another plot hole to add to the list.

6188536

I thought anon-a-miss worked okay as a story between EQG1 and RR (with the barely-trusted Sunset still finding her place)... which is what the author thought he was writing, and then retroactively made post-RR.

Equestria Girls Holiday Special - Because Fuck Having Editing and Shit.

100% with you on the Anon-A-Miss nonsense - too much of it is clickbait feelz and/or revenge porn for daring to offend someone's precious Sunset Waifu. And it's all the fucking same - an indignant screech at the Mane 5, "You shouldn't doubt Sunset!", whilst ignoring the fact Anon-A-Miss attacks were exactly her previous MO.

6188554

Well, while we're are it, we might as well ask for dogs to stop licking themselves cause that ain't gonna happen either.

Inexperienced authors are going to go for low-hanging fruit because this site ensures authors conflate upvotes and views with talent (not that that's unique to this site). They're gonna try to punch above their weight-class, and hopefully they'll learn from their mistakes and become better for it.

Hell, I've got a story in planning that is going to deal with issues that I'm not entirely certain I'm skilled enough to accurately and meaningfully portray. But I'll likely take a stab at it anyways, because I'm not going to improve if I don't challenge myself.

6188536
You bring up some good points in your argument. Also I'm sorry for your loss, I have no idea how hard that must be, but I know dealing with a death is probably one of the hardest things someone goes through in their life.

6188583 It's just a convenient pre-canned form of drama that is exploited to the furthest stretch of believability.
6188596 on some level I can see that, but it's treated as the holy-grail of incidents, when it's frankly something hurtful to someone that has been trying to change, but not a crazy, soul-wrenching moment of introspection and questioning-of-life as it is often used.

6188536
Sunset Shimmer would consider it. She has panicked before. And with everyone turning on her even after she felt like she had proven herself. She would fight it of course but there is a point when it becomes too much. Hell she panicked when Rainbow jelled at her in Rainbow Rocks when she had pushed her to stop the revealing of magic. So it's pretty easy to knock someone from a high to an extreme low. True some fics don't do it well. The problem is that the others writers get jealous of good ones and insults them to the point they get deleted. A good one Is The Fall of Harmony.

6188536
I want to just start out by saying: I am so very sorry for your loss, and thanks for sharing your story. I sincerely hope you find peace in your life.

As a writer and co-writer of two Anon-a-Miss based stories (neither having to do with suicide, thankfully), this post and its comments were incredibly insightful. It's so easy to get caught up in a trend that gets your viewership started, that you don't notice why others believe it's a bad thing.

I won't touch any personal and RL related stuff here, obviously, but really? Being annoyed or agitated for a certain theme in fanfics I can get. (I do hate quite a lot of premises/themes in MLP fanfiction, with some of them even being canon-based). Bashing it in some form especially while being overflown by emotions I can get too. But going "It could have never happened" "It's being written only for cheap likes" "Unless you experience X you cannot understand it and write about it" is not even remotely objective, but just gives us a start for a bunch of useless drama. Or even may look like a "cheap way to get likes/attention" to the more cynical of us of, keh.

Let me tell ya - 90% of all fanfics are just straight shit. For different reasons - extremely poor grammar, pacing issues, OOC-ness, insta-bonding, bashing as a main theme and so forth. So, yes, obviously I can agree that most Anon-a-miss fanfics dealing with theme of suicide are shit (like any other group of fanfics with a representative selection big enough for it).

I strongly disagree with these points:
- Sunset would never commit suicide in the circumstances that are either present in the comics or can be quickly and easily escalated from those.

- A theme of suicide cannot be used in fanfics unless it's "done right" (I can agree for published stories, but do you really expect for fanfiction writers to actually get it right on the first try even if they honestly try their best at it? Even flawed stories are occasionally worth something, both for their writers and readers.)

- Anon-a-miss story being canon or not matters in any way in regards to writing MLP fanfiction.

While I agree that using Anon-A-Miss as a cheap stepping stone for suicide stories, there is also the possibility that they are considering suicide IRL and it's their way of coping. Two of my own Sunset Shimmer stories were written while I personally was trying to decide which way to end it all. With that said, neither of them contained nor made reference to Anon-A-Miss. Writing them, I believed, saved my life.

6188596
Aww, wow! It's so surreal seeing Hell and High Water and Empty Skies (the soccer team one) dropped in a comment. I'm glad you enjoy them!

6188729 How could you not? They're great. Was kinda bummed out when Empty Skies was finished.

6188536
The main issue with it is that it really does come out of nowhere. I have read a few anon-a-miss fics that had that and were able to pull it off because they at least took time to explain that there was at least something else going on in Sunsets head that helped contribute to her thoughts. Mostly that when the elements were used on her at the fall formal what they did was confront her with everything she had done before that and guilt was heavily playing in her head. Her friends were her support group to get over that. Then anon-a-miss happens and every good thing shes done is wiped away and her friends abandon her. This all leads to her suicidal thoughts and the occasional attempt at in in some stories. Unfortunately most fics don't even take any time to try and explain this. Like I said, it comes out of nowhere. Only a few fics take the time to explain how things lead up to that.

For the record, I agree with you that she wouldn't do that at all.

6188536
A lot of the fics draw on what authors have seen/done/heard about. Depending on the person and their reactions to things, it could escalate to suicide. A lot of the fics increase the stimuli for it, such as having someone betray in and get her beaten up, the entire school turning on her despite her trying to prove her innocence, etc. Sunset is consumed with a feeling of loneliness, in a way that's different than the aftermath of the Fall Formal because she legitimately has no one to turn to during the events of Anon-a-Miss. The principals are nowhere to be found most of the time, and are on the fence about the issue if they are mentioned in fics, Twilight is in a completely different world, the entire school hates her all over again and no one is showing a modicum of sympathy, and her friends have completely abandoned her. The reason a lot of fics go to suicide is because, judging by her behavior during Rainbow Rocks, that would be a realistic turn for Sunset's character, especially given her remorse for everything she's done. The fics draw on life, to whatever degree and don't simply use the comic, but embellish the comic to make the world even the slightest bit more believable.

There's also the want to see someone so broken build themselves up again and become the person she is in Friendship Games, confident, strong, no longer questioning herself at every turn but still doubting her abilities. It really is just left up to each author's interpretation of Sunset's character in the end. Not to mention, people experience things differently...

6188733
Thanks so much! The sequel's on hold so that I can keep H&HW running smoothly with Uria, but I can get to it soon!

6188747 A sequel? Sweet!

6188723
I am the last person you will ever see tell someone they can't do something when it comes to artistic expression. I'll critique you on it, but I'll never tell you that you can't do something.

I never said someone CAN'T do something, so, please, don't put words in my mouth, I believe the words I said were 'If you're going to do it, do it right', I didn't add 'or not at all' after that. Nothing absolves you from, hopefully, constructive critique. Approaching an emotionally charged topic, in any medium, with little to no understanding or preparation only opens you up for failure, especially if the author is only doing it '4 teh clickz'.

I never said anything remotely close to " Unless you experience X you cannot understand it and write about it ", so again, please don't put words in my mouth. If you've never experienced having someone you care about commit suicide, how you can you accurately write about it? Without research or asking someone who has experienced it, you can't do it justice. Experienced writers draw from personal experience or they do a metric ton of research and/or seek out those with the relevant experiences. If you go into something without the proper preparation, you're going to have a bad time.

Lastly, I never said Sunset would never kill her self, so, for the last time, please don't put words in my mouth. I said it was an extremely unlikely possibility based on what we've seen of her personality, especially as a result of what happened in the Holiday Special comic. If anything it would have pissed her off, not make her suicidal. If she considered it, there would have had to have been some pretty serious underlying and ongoing issues going on that would contribute to it, none of which are readily apparent in the given source material. I'm also basing that opinion on my Crisis Response training I've undergone as a Security Guard. Generally speaking and barring any unknown circumstances, Sunset does not fit the personality profile of someone prone to suicidal thoughts.

6188751
Fel didn’t comment respond to you, take a look at the rest of the thread. Multiple people are saying Sunset would never commit suicide. Multiple people are saying you shouldn’t write it. Multiple people are grouping every single Anon-A-Miss stories as nothing but suicide or revenge porn click bait.

6188745
I work as a security guard and have undergone mental health crisis response training as part of my job working on both a College Campus and my local hospital's Mental Health unit. I've been taught to look for behaviors that indicate people being crisis or distress, so, like I said to Felspite, based on what we've seen in the conclusion of both movies, read in the comics, generally speaking and barring any unknown circumstances, Sunset does not fit the personality profile of someone prone to suicidal thoughts.

It's not just my personal opinion, but my professional one as well.

6188614

Fixed that for ya...

Honestly, even mediocre writers can fall back on this sort of thing. It can be tricky because drama and emotion are ultimately good things when telling a story, but one has to have a decently refined sense of subtlety about it.

Just because 'its a thing', doesn't make it excusable.

It also doesn't make it blameworthy. There will always be writers who do this, and other things they probably shouldn't, because writing is the kind of thing you figure out as you're doing it. You should probably try to accept it as just another unfortunate part of the learning process. Being judgemental about it won't do any good.

I understand that every writer needs their start, but if you're unwilling to change, you should be called out for it in critique.

And here I thought critique was intended to guide those willing to change, not denounce the unwilling.

Look, first of all, change takes time. It takes years to become a - by most standards - "good" author. It's easy to say "You should know better than this", but we can't expect high quality work to be the standard since most fanfiction writers are amateurs writing purely for personal satisfaction. As for critique, I recognize it as mostly well intentioned, but the truth is that you can't just tell people how to be better writers. If that was possible, writing would be easy.

Secondly, some people - and by that I mean mostly your average teenager - tend to generally be more easily moved by this type of sentimental pandering, due to being emotionally immature and lacking in judgement. That's not really their fault, nor is it something they can just get over. It's a direct result of their current biological state.

I have personally seen people claim to have been moved to tears by writing I considered too crude and unsophisticated to take seriously. Note that this also means that there is, in fact, a viable audience for these stories, for what it's worth.

And anyway, if it's one thing I'm sure of it's that practically everyone who sits down and writes several thousand words of story and then puts it up on the internet for others to read probably did so because they honestly thought it was a story worth telling. at least at the time.

6188729

For me the whole Anaon-A-Miss thing was a drop of the ball. Personally I don't like seeing stories that portray Sunset that way cause it just doesn't make sense. Sure she can get sad and moppy about stuff but full or suicidal depression? Nope. I don't see it.

6188798

And here I thought critique was intended to guide those willing to change, not denounce the unwilling.

There's a time and a place for everything, sometimes the best guiding hand is a swift kick in the ass.

Constructive Criticism is not always Nicey-Nice Criticism. Some of the best critiques I've ever gotten were from people who tore my work to shreds.

6188597
Yes. They don't always have to be completely accurate to the show. I've written crossovers that could never happen, scenes that could never happen. Take my Villain Competition story for instance. Of course, some attempt to fit in to give me a headcanon to go by if I get disappointed again...

6188592
Some people would say otherwise, but only coz they wanted Sombra and Chrysalis to still be alive so that I couldn't be satisfied, since I wanted them dead. I wonder how many people who said "Chrysalis is still alive" were actually surprised when it was confirmed in Season 6. They even argued that she wouldn't return when I ditched my "fell to her death" theory and said she would.

6188911
well, sometimes when someone hates Sunset, they will write about how Sunset is still evil or sunset will do something regretful. Heck I used to hate sunset but after reading Holiday Special and watching EqG Rainbow Rocks then I decide to forgive her.

Meh, people write what they write. I was a bit confused myself at the sudden amount of stories around that comic, but, none of their premises interested me so I didn't read them. There is one or two of Sunset near suicide that are romance fics, and those I'll give a shot, but if it is labelled tragedy and seems like it'll have a 'bad ending' in my opinion, I steer clear of it.

Mind you, I do the same thing with the new stories coming out involving the movie. Pinkie and Rainbow were about the only ones I felt to be in character at all, so I accept the movie as just a Alternative Universe thing, like I do with all the comics. If someone wants to try their hand at writing and they suck at it, the most I can hope is that they strive to learn more and get better at it. I started out reading stories for about a year before editing for another year before finally trying my hand at writing a story. Not everyone has that thought process, or interest in learning and observing before trying their hand at it.

I dunno, I say that unless they are trying to combine comedy and suicide together, they probably aren't trying to make fun of the subject and they are just poor at writing out the story they wanted to share. If that comic resonated with them somehow, and they felt the desire to write a suicide comic, well, good luck to them, but It's doubtful that it's a story I'm interested in. If I feel a writer is on the cusp of being decent, I may message them with edits and ways to make the chapter better, but if it's a dull or poorly made story to me, I just move on.

6188536
Thank You! This needed to be said.
I can't really blame anyone for writing suicide like this. Afterall, film and TV do it too. But just because it's been done, doesn't mean it's right. This isn't just regarding Sunset Shimmer or MLP, it should be considered in all storywriting. More than often, I see suicide and really any form of death handled poorly. This is a difficult topic, just like mental illness, abusive relationships, and assault. All of these things you need to have a personal connection to, or at least enough research to be able to convey it honestly and realistically. Using any form of difficult issue for cheap drama is emotionally manipulative. You are robbing your audience of being able to identify with your characters by always having them feel sorry for them.

Showing characters cry doesn't create dramatic tension. Drama is made when a character (whom you love and support, can physically see trying to achieve their goals, have friends or family to lean on, and celebrate both the GOOD and the bad with) get brought to their lowest point and have to pick themselves up again. THESE are the characters we aspire to be like. These are the ones we fall in love with and will still remember years later.

6189016

It's funny that you still believe that. The comics are not canon to the show. Period end of statement. The comics are written by an entirely different team, by an entirely different company, and they have absolutely no bearing on the show whatsoever, except in the case of tight coordination.

The only example of that tight coordination so far is the Legends of Magic series. Fucking Anon-a-Miss didn't even follow the canon that existed when it was published, so it's double shit.

6189180
And yet both the comics and the show contradict each other every chance they get.