If you have a story idea and want to discuss it, this is the place for you. If you want help with your story, feedback on the idea, and so on, feel free to post. If you have a story idea you'd like to pitch for someone else to write, this is the place to do so.

This thread is intended to cut down on forum "clutter."

4636943 story around this pic

Context

I thought it would be interesting to see what would happen if Louise summoned Sunset Shimmer after she was reformed and now part of the gang which means this would take place after Rainbow Rocks. Now depending on the writer of the story, she can either stay a human or be what she used to be. Now the reason I posted this topic is not only start an discussion but to motivate someone to start writing this crossover.

4637059
I don't see Sunset wasting her time on toy models, I really don't. She can't possibly get sucked into a time-consuming solitary hobby which doesn't produce a real-life result.
And that girl isn't even Sunset, human alter ego or not. Her hair is wrong, and her body shape is wrong. I'm all for celebration of body shape variety, but I'm even more for canon.

4637153
Who... Louise???

4637648

Louise summoning Sunset in her pony form.

4637648 its for gunpla battle in the opening i showed.

Canterlot High in Halkeginia:

I can understand why the idea of Louise summons random character boring, but with the idea of commoners not going to school it can be interesting and still have funny moments. It would be funny to see Celestia and Luna meeting with the headmaster of Tristian Academy. The thing they both share however is that they both care for their students. I think the headmasters would help them out in finding a way back home. Sunset and the rest of the girls interacting with this new world can lead to funny and emotional moments. The one thing I can see is Sunset giving Twilight the rundown of what happened and try to find a way for them back home. Like in Louise in Canterlot High, I can see the girl trying to teach the nobles a lesson in friendship.

4641941 thats the spirit!

I recently decided to write a Alternate Universe Equestria Girls story where Sunset Shimmer is a human hero and Twilight and the Mane Six are stereotypical bad girls. (At least on the surface). So just like in the first EQG Sunset Shimmer has to take on the mean girls and save the school...etc. etc.

Here are a few story notes

.Sunset Shimmer isn't a goody goody but she is a nice or at least honest person in this alternate universe. Oh an she's Human.
.Twilight is a bad girl, but she hides it by pretending to be a sweet studious figure in the school. Sort of like that scene with Sunset and Vice Principle Luna in EQG but throughout the entire story. And it makes more sense with Twilight
.The other mane six are darkened versions of their true selves...not totally OOC but more of you take their already existing darker aspects and amp it up to Eleven!
.There will be a twist at the end but I'm spoiling that. If you REALLY wanna know the twist ending, PM me and I'll tell yuh.

So that's all I got so far, but the problem is I still feel my story is missing a lot, so far I'm only writing the first chapter and that's mostly set up the characters and setting, I still haven't formulated a story, and I still feel my story just hasn't captured as Photo Finish would say...DA MAJIKS! So I need some advice. If you were writing a AU Equestria Girls story in the same vain (Please don't let me writing one stop you!) how would do it and what would you suggest?

Four words:
Sword Art Online Crossover
I mean the possibilities with this are numerous
Also I would like to see a Lone Ranger crossover, too

Looking for a evil twilight and evil sunset team up + pairing

I have an idea for a possible oneshot, which I might write sometime.
The idea is happening after Friendship Games. Sunset Shimmer gets an unexpected visitor. Princess Celestia comes to CHS and has a small conversation with her former student. The title would sum up the core of that conversation: I am so proud of you.

I had an idea for a parasite eve cross that occurs during the holiday special, where sunset is possessed by mitochondrial Eve, every thing goes from bad to worse from there.

i got an idea, its been burning in my head since i saw these pics

Fluttershy gain the attention of a pack of werewolfs, after rescuing one she thought was an over sized dog. Sunset Shimmer, a passing vampire does everything in her power, and arsenal to keep her from there claws.

This crosses my mind a few times, and i've already got a few things figured out, many of which i'd like to keep as is, other i'm willing to negotiate... if anyone takes an interest let me know.

hey every one deadman here and i'm asking anyone who has the time to work with me on a story. you see i have a lot of ideas for storys but don't have the skill to write down any of theme,so im asking any one who has the time to help a fellow fan out and try making a story every one will in joy,but don't think you'll just be writing down my ideas, i'll be wanting to hear your ideas and plans for the story too!

the first story idea is a equestria girls crossover with sunset as the lead roll. wear she and and group of unlikely friends will in bark on a very....... Bizarre Adventure.

message me if your interested in this story or just reply to this.

This should happen. Especially after Crusaders of the Lost Mark. What do y'all think?

Okay, so as we know one of the running gags from Rainbow Rocks was the HuMane 6 constantly commenting on the past grievances Sunset caused and then saying "no offense" to which Sunset ALWAYS replied "none taken".

Does anyone else think that, perhaps, Sunset was being TOO forgiving to them? I mean she is TRYING to show she has and still has to deal with the rest of the student body's cold shoulders (and Celestia's barb about the Fall Formal didn't help, unintentional it may have been). Being reminded all the time of your mistakes and then being told "no offense" has GOT to take a toll on one's psyche.

So I would LOVE to see someone do a oneshot or even a short story in which Sunset actually tells them "You know what? Offense TAKEN! I'm trying my hardest and honestly these comments aren't helping!"

Yeah, so if anyone else thinks this idea has merit, please give it a shot.

An idea recently struck me, though I'll never have time to actually act on it. If it strikes anyone's fancy, go ahead and use it as a springboard for ideas. Then again, it's probably already been done.

The door to the main chamber in Twilight's castle burst open. Orange hooves stomped the ground, bringing them up to the round table in the center of the room. "Sorry I'm late, y'all," Applejack said, panting just a bit as she took her seat. "I got caught up back at the farm."

Giving Applejack a warm smile, Twilight replied, "It's no problem at all. I'm just happy that all of you could make it."

Around the table, a bevy of nods and mutterings shared Twilight's sentiment. "It certainly is a wonderful change of pace when we all can get together without some dreadful thing threatening Equestria," Rarity said.

"Yeah!" Pinkie jumped up. "I can't remember the last time we were all able to come together for a sleepover at Twilight's!"

"Really?" Rainbow Dash asked raising an eyebrow. "You don't remember the Tantabus at all?"

"That doesn't count!" Pinkie retorted.

"I think it does count," Fluttershy said, though her words failed to rise above the noise.

"We all came here, and slept in the same room." Rainbow motioned one hoof into the other. "We even had dinner together and everything!"

"But it wasn't all fun and games! If it's a sleepover then it's gotta—"

"Girls!" Twilight slammed her hooves onto the table. The whole room gasped as light erupted from Twilight's hooves, engulfing the entire table. From the light, a three-dimensional model rose.

Rarity rose a hoof to her mouth. "Why, it's the map!"

Everypony's eyes moved to their own flanks. "Aww..." Pinkie muttered. "Not me."

"It's not my cutie mark, either," Fluttershy said.

"Nothin' here."

Rainbow crossed her forelegs over her chest in a huff. "Aww, man. Mine's not glowing either."

"Twilight!" Rarity exclaimed, pointing to Twilight's flashing cutie mark.

Sure enough, Twilight's cutie mark appeared on the map. It floated above the map locked in a circular path with a second cutie mark.

"Wait, who's cutie mark is that?" Rainbow asked, pointing to the red and yellow sun.

"I don't reckon I've ever seen one quite like that before."

Twilight's eyes widened. "I-I don't believe it."

"What? What is it?" Pinkie asked, bringing her face right up to the cutie mark.

"It's Sunset Shimmer's cutie mark!"

Hiya!!
I love well developed adventure stories with strong character development and backgrounds along with romance mixed in. I love adventures that are moderately paced filled with challenges, twists, and turns that lead towards the seemable impossible goal. Also the romance slowly builds and just doesn't miracously happen in a few chapters. So in other words, what I really love is reading about 2 people's slowing growing love in the mix of the most unordinary and chaotic situations.

With that said, I have not been able to find anything close to this that focuses mainly on Sunset. It's gotten to the point I don't think one exists. I think this would be an excellent challenge to blend all the elements in such a way to create perfection.

With perfection in mind I don't think I can ever give this style any justice whatsoever. I'm a terrible writer that has only written a few stories that were eventually scraped. On top of it I'm a band and theatre kid getting ready to go into college. TIME IS NONEXISTENT with no time to hone my skills.

Anyways, enough of that. If someone would take this and run with it I would be thrilled to read the results.

Thanks,
~Darksong

I had this: https://www.fimfiction.net/blog/573052/evil-league-of-evil-is-watching-so-beware idea for the Sunset story, and I'm even attempting to write it.
But I suck at writing, so if anyone wants this idea - you can have it.

I have two Sunset idea's floating around at the moment.

One is a simple comedy, thanks to one of the threads on this forum. Sunset Swimmer's pony toy wears a mask. I think it would be kinda funny to do a story where the Humane Six discover that Sunset Shimmer is a huge fangirl of Mexican masked wrestling.

The other is more serious.
Sunset is going about her day...when she suddenly finds herself back in Equestria. In Canterlot, in fact. As an alicorn. With servants and citizens calling her "Princess Sunset".

She investigates. It turn's out that -in this world- she never left through the mirror. She stayed, completed her studies, ascended to Princess-status.

Sunset Shimmer was 'the Chosen One', the Champion of Harmony; she was supposed to be the one to become an alicorn. When she left, it forced Twilight and company to do the job, which they did...but it was like forcing a square peg into a round hole.

Now, something has corrected this oversight, " fixing" the timeline. Sunset never left Equestrian; she became a princess, the greatest hero the world has ever known. Twilight was free to perform her real destiny, and become the modern-version of Starswirl the Bearded.

Equestria (and Earth) are doing better than they were in the main timeline...and Sunset Shimmer is the only one who remembers the original world ever existed. Equestria has entered a Golden Age.
Sunset Shimmer is going to get HER world back.

So, I'm going to write an AU (and possibly clopfic) that is based during the first EG film, where Sunset is able to corrupt Twilight and get her to join her mission as I have yet to see a story with this premise (btw if anybody has found one please send link or post name of story). Anyway the problem I'm having is coming up with a type of conflict between Twilight and Celestia and/or her friends (preferably the former) that would make Twilight accept an offer made by Sunset. Let me know if any of you have got some ideas and I'll be sure to credit you in the description of my story.

P.S. If any of you could find/create a cover art for my story that would be much appreciated.

P.S.S. Make sure to have your comments shaded because of spoilers

4983600 How naive are you going to make Twilight? Or headstrong I guess I should say.

what if sunset had to fight the parasprites for the human world? like id read that

I have a few ideas but I don't have any confidence or trust on my current ability to properly write and deliver my ideas but if anyone is interested in these ideas, just send me a message.

( Memory loss always seems to catch my interest)

* Sunset lost her memories and somehow manages to live with her human counterpart and slowly her magic saps into the other sunset.

* Trixie and and sunset went to the human world and lived with the two sister, as time went on sunset and Trixie slowly begins to mirror Tia and luna.

* Demon sunset x tirek

* MLP x To Aru (set in the toaru world and sunset has pyro ablilites. Plot revolves around orbital elevator Endymion.) OK its simply sunset living in academy city using the excuse of losing her memory like touma but focuses more on her and mikoto.
( Less touma scenes)

* plant vs zombies crossover - sunset finds a wrecked RV in the everfree and inside are mutant plants that is drawn to sunset's sun cutie mark similar to how the sun falls (sets) on the lawn.
( timeline sets in an alternate universe where she left Canterlot and did not go through the mirror)

um, i'm new to here and i haven't wrote any fanfics yet. so im planning to write a crossover fanfic in wich involves Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, so i hope if anyone can suggest some tips

oh yeah, and sunset shimmer will be there too,
P.S
i am confused to decide wether this is a anthro or fully humanized (when the ponies traveled to the human world. and possibly this will be set at modern warfare 1 and modern warfare 2

errr... if you're serious, you kinda might want to elaborate on your idea,

I have a couple of ideas (both power rangers ideas) both of them taking place post-friendship games about 2 years: The first involves an original villain from earth setting her sights on conquering Equus, Sunset is contacted by two past rangers (Dustin form Ninja Storm and Lauren from Samurai) to gather and mentor a team to safeguard both worlds.

The other is an AU of Dino Charge/Dino Super Charge, where she finds the red Energem and becomes the Red Ranger of the Dino Charge with various people from both the pony and human worlds. Some familiar, some not so much. If anybody has suggestions on how to expand on this idea please notify me. Also bear in mind I've seen very little of the sentai though I am knowledgeable about it.

Is it wrong that i can think up a lot of sunset shimmer crossover's that involve the equestria girls holiday special comic?
I mean, this are some ideas i came up with on the top of my head, and have even worked up half of the plot for the story too.

EG x JoJo's bizarre adventure: The adventure at sunset.

EG x kamen rider: Kamen rider KNIGHT-MARE!

EG x digimon: Tamer of a devil.

EG x Mega Man star force: The ZERO star.

EQ x Persona: A card of death and a broken sunset

And so many more still keep coming up and it won't stop!
I wish i had the skill to make this stories.

Following the events of Friendship Games, Sunset picks up the undesirable nickname of 'Raccoon Shimmer' or maybe 'Panda Shimmer'

Because honestly, look at the Daydream Shimmer design again. That red band around her eyes is cute, but it's just like a raccoon.

So I'm taking down notes for a story that, among other things, will have Sunset Shimmer interact with Starlight Glimmer.

Obviously, the two have a lot in common, but I want to avoid having them just be pallet swapped clones of each other. I already have a basic idea of how they are different, but I'd be interested in suggestion on how to make the two of them distinct personalities.

5157723
What? They don't have anything in common. In fact, I'm sure one of them would be dead within an hour, if you locked them both inside one room.

5157711

Because honestly, look at the Daydream Shimmer design again. That red band around her eyes is cute, but it's just like a raccoon.

IT's WARPAINT, MUTHA******S!

5157931 Well, she'd be in good company with actual MLP raccoons (in the lower right)

(at this point, IDW comics are more fun for posting panels out of context)

5157931

What? They don't have anything in common. In fact, I'm sure one of them would be dead within an hour, if you locked them both inside one room.

Locking those two in a room together for an hour would only result in them passionately making out, and you know it.

5157994

So there's deer, foxes, lynxes and other assorted woodland critters, plus some mythological creatures, but I also see a giraffe, a gorilla and what I assume to be a baboon.

...Equestrian ecology makes no sense.

5158523

Locking those two in a room together for an hour would only result in them passionately making out, and you know it.

You know, I just started writing almost that exact story. (Though it's not with Starlight Glimmer...)

5158806

It's a cliche classic.

Was redirected by Jondor after my thread was locked. Working on my own take on the "Sunset returns to Equestria and reconciles with Celestia" concept among different authors. I have completed the first chapter and have it in my google docs until I can get some proofreading help:

Prodigal Pupil Returns Chapter 1

Set up involves Sunset returning to Equestria with the plan of reconciling and seeking forgiveness from Celestia but wondering how her old mentor might react and if she's worthy of her forgiveness. Twilight wanting to help Sunset with her reconciliation so she can move on, devises a plan to have Sunset spend time with the Mane 5 to help support her and give some confidence but there's some mixed opinions on Sunset, mainly with Applejack and Rainbow Dash. I've got most of the story plotted it for the most part but stuck on the hook for how Sunset and Rainbow can bond and become friends. Any ideas?

5369460

First - why would she do it ? Sunset did leave and lived a live just fine without Celly in her life, Celly is a thing from the past. Why to bring it up? Seriously, this is what most fics with similar premise fail to explain. Assuming Sunset has a life in EqG world (and she does), she has exactly zero reasons to care about Celly. Returning permanently would require also abandoning any life-plan in human world for nothing solid in Equestria, another serious reason to NOT go there, at least not permanently. This should be addressed in the first paragraphs of your fic.

Second - At the moment neither Sunset is a Celestia's pupil, nor she has a place to return to. The place she was used to have is occupied. So, it is definitely not a 'return' and definitely no a 'pupil's return'. Sunset *may* have a reason to visit Equestria (say, to catch up with relatives/friends if she had any), that's OK, but to return? Where? There is no place waiting for her there.

And seriously. This thing with Pinki's party is getting old.

5370085

You bring up some decent points and some things I may address in my story though certain points I will speak with you about.

Brief note - the name for the fic comes from the Prodigal Son parable in the bible and while Sunset isn't Celestia's pupil anymore, she was at a point in her life.

First - if it wasn't clear in the first chapter, it was to move past emotional baggage. I personally think that much like Twilight, Sunset was under Celestia's tutelage at a young age and thus she was a large part of Sunset's life. While sometimes you can put the past behind you, other times it comes back to bite you or leave some emotional scars on you. The idea was for Sunset to reconcile with Celestia to move forward to the next part of her life as a form of closure. This way she can make whatever plans she has without the emotional baggage. Plus if Celestia meant nothing to her, why would she have kept the journal she brought with her to the human world?

You also assume that I would have Sunset abandoning her friends. Not true. The way my story was set up is that Sunset is visiting Equestria. As I said, she's visiting to deal with unfinished business. She's not returning and not coming back. That's why I have the framing device for her going to Equestria during the summer.

Another aspect you bring up but I put question to is Sunset's life in the Human World. While she does seem to have a goal of remaining with her friends, why plan does she have beyond graduating Canterlot High? It's never been mentioned in the movies that she has any plan beyond what happens when her friends graduate Canterlot High and go on to college, jobs, and careers. We don't even know where Sunset is living now in the Human World and how exactly is she going to live in the human world when she has maybe the most minimal forms of documentation such as a birth certificate and other legal documents. All of that is back in Equestria. What exactly would happen to her after high school? Back in Equestria, more resources are available to her. She is a skilled sorceress and former pupil of Celestia. Both of those traits could more easily land her a job or more thought out life than what she could have in the human world. I could imagine that after High School, Sunset would have to return to Equestria unless she starts working as a research scientist in a field most people in that world believe is fake or not real. I will explore this aspect of Sunset might do in one of the chapters of this story and maybe part of my own head canon stuff.

As for the Pinkie Party stuff, It's Pinkie Pie. If there's a new person in town, she's going to want to throw them a welcome party. Though, I at least have her acknowledging that Sunset doesn't need a party in her emotional state.

5370296
>Brief note - the name for the fic comes from the Prodigal Son parable in the bible and while Sunset isn't Celestia's pupil anymore, she was at a point in her life.

Brief note : Titles are important, and are often take literally.

>First - if it wasn't clear in the first chapter,

I specifically pointed, that it should be dealt with in the first paragraphs. There is a shitload of fics dealing with Sunset returning to Equestria, most of them shitty because of badly written characterisation. At the very first paragraphs you should point that your Susnet has reasons for what she does.

>While sometimes you can put the past behind you, other times it comes back to bite you or leave some emotional scars on you

Speaking from experience - the best way to deal with emotional baggage is to ignore it, burying it under new experience. And stinging emotional scars are not dealt with by reconciliation - they are dealt with by confrontation and sorting differences out openly, if it is possible at all.

>Plus if Celestia meant nothing to her, why would she have kept the journal she brought with her to the human world?

Yes, the first thing she should do to conclude this part is to burn the journal. Ideally, she needs to forget that Equestria ever existed. She can't rewind time.

>It's never been mentioned in the movies that she has any plan beyond what happens when her friends graduate Canterlot High and go on to college, jobs, and careers.

She gets her money somewhere, she lives somewhere and she is not an idiot. This means that paperwork was somehow dealt with (probably, semi-illegal). She definitely has a plan, or at least a set of options (again, non necessarily 100% legal) Of course, you may write her having no plan, in which case return is a viable option.

>She is a skilled sorceress and former pupil of Celestia.

This is exactly what didn't work for her in the past. Having broken ambitions is hard, but having broken ambitions and being reminded of it every day is just plain torturous. This is an emotional baggage she cannot leave behind even if she wished, so this is not actually an option, unless you want to write about a broken make.

>Back in Equestria, more resources are available to her.

In Equestria she entirely depends on mercy of Twilight and Celestia, who have perfect legal reasons and power to do everything they want with Sunset and who have no obligation to give her anything. Yes, they may feel like helping her, but this again is an emotional baggage that will hang above her forever and poison any relationship they may have.

>Though, I at least have her acknowledging that Sunset doesn't need a party in her emotional state.

And you didn't think that Pinkie with her Pinkie Sense perfectly can know that? You give her too little credit, Pinkie has a brain and can learn.

5370687

You raise several points that make sense. Thank you for your critique. Now, I...I just don't know if I should do that story the way I was going to anymore.

5371144 I think your story idea is better than permeakra made it out to be. Sunset may have moved beyond her position as student but her relationship with Celestia is bigger than that. She probably respected/loved Celestia in the past as much as Twilight did, she knows IMO that Celestia deserves that respect, and she knows she repaid Celestia's care for her with spite and rejection. She needs to at least visit EQ, apologise to Celestia and accept her forgiveness. I'd say you should give us an idea of her objectives for returning asap but take more than a paragraph to develop it.

Is Sunset's future in Equestria or the human world? Open question. EQ is the place of Sunset's birth, her natural home; she travelled to another world as a rejection of her homeland, and perhaps with a plan to conquer this new world using Equestrian magic. Now she's made friends with Twilight, both her reasons for leaving Equestria have exploded, leaving her free to settle in either place. Any plans she had in the human world would have been changed a lot by the 1st movie. Would another new start by returning to Equestria be what she needs? Maybe she thinks it is, but finds that it isn't, returning again to Canterlot High.

In Equestria she entirely depends on mercy of Twilight and Celestia, who have perfect legal reasons and power to do everything they want with Sunset and who have no obligation to give her anything. Yes, they may feel like helping her, but this again is an emotional baggage that will hang above her forever and poison any relationship they may have.

This is no forgiveness. Legal and Christian forgiveness means giving up any right to punish another or even let them feel guilt for their past sins. Sunset will feel some guilt, only God could remove that entirely, but she can accept Celestia and Twilight's forgiveness, and make 'new experiences' with her friends; any 'confrontation' that didn't permit that would be useless. Continuing to wallow in guilt or cling to baggage would be mistrust and arrogance.

5371144
>I just don't know if I should do that story the way I was going to anymore.

Actually, you can always do so plainly as a practice. Just keep in mind that some of your potential readers will have similar questions.

5371846
>I think your story idea is better than permeakra made it out to be.
Permeakra never said that a fic with premise 'Sunset (returns to/visits) Equestria' cannot be written good. He said, it is hard and the idea of (return/visit) must be justified both IC and OOC. He also pointed what is wrong with several common justifications. However

>She needs to at least visit EQ, apologise to Celestia and accept her forgiveness.

is not a valid justification. She does not per se. She does not have such phisiological need and not neccecarily has such psychlogical need. She may feel obliged to do so due to (mis)beliefs or she may develop such a need as a result of serious rethinking of her life. Either of that must be shown, just saying 'she needs to do that' is not enough for a good fic.

After conclusion of undeniable, I will move to more questionable. Questionable as in 'depending on the goal of the story the following may be ignored' and as in 'some people may have different opinion on the matter'.

>Legal and Christian forgiveness means giving up any right to punish another or even let them feel guilt for their past sins. Sunset will feel some guilt

This is indeed so, but saying 'I forgive you' does not mean actual forgiveness by heart. Emotional scars are very persistent, and simple gestures rarely help. It needs to be much deeper than that. Some 'quest of making up for all the trouble caused' may help, but even that may be insufficient. Similarly, even if Sunset sees that she wronged Twilight undeservingly, her feelings towards Celestia are a completely different story. She was angry for how long? Do you really belive that can be dealt with in a moment and be replaced by guilt and only guilt? (actually, given the mind-raping nature of the Elements it may, but this is a can of worms so angy and hungry that I would strongly discorage even casual glance in that direction) Besides, we do not have much strong evidence, who was in the wrong, even Celly's direct words in EqG are quite vague. On the other hand, we know for sure, that Celly didn't put enough effort into teaching Twilight responsibility (Lesson Zero), so ...

>Continuing to wallow in guilt or cling to baggage would be mistrust and arrogance.

Despite whatever some hypocrites say, mistrust and arrogance are perfectly natural feelings, and some healthy dose of them is an absolutely requirement for any realistically written character. Furthermore, having no such feelings is (almost) a pathology. The feelings should not be definiive, but they must be present in any healthy individual. For example, Rainbow has above healthy arrogance, while Fluttershy has below healthy arrogance.

5371945 Sunset has a moral obligation to apologise to Celestia and she will want to once she realises she wronged her. Her repentence and change in character post EG make it fairly certain that she does; stories that cover that in more detail than the movie would be good, but it's not a shocking unprecedented plot twist.

I think we can safely assume Sunset was in the wrong, given her character in the first movie and the 'Fall of Sunset' comic. Celestia may seem distant at times, but she is the ruler of Equestria; her voice and demeanour express to me that she cares about Twilight and Sunset. Once Sunset realised her anger at Celestina's 'holding her back' was unjustified and ungrateful, residual anger might be there, but she would reject it.

This is indeed so, but saying 'I forgive you' does not mean actual forgiveness by heart.

Forgiveness is from the heart (strictly from God), words without heart wouldn't be any forgiveness at all.

Setting right what you did wrong does repair relationships, but that would come from Sunset's repentence rather than working to earn forgiveness. You've made me think a bit; repairing a relationship requires both repentence and forgiveness, there can be forgiveness with no repaired relationship.

Whatever level of arrogance (confidence?) and mistrust is required to refuse forgiveness is the wrong level. A story might well be written where Sunset refuses forgiveness and remain estranged from her former teacher, but that Sunset would be a darker, more flawed character than the one we see post EG.

5371976

>Sunset has a moral obligation to apologise to Celestia

Again, we have no hard evidence for that. In a fic it should described so explicitly. Besides, having moral obligation is not equal to actually having desire to do so, nor it is equal inherent goodness of such action (there are cases when doing so would cause more pain than cure). This, again, should be described explicitly.

>Setting right what you did wrong does repair relationships,

Speaking from experience - nope, bad feelings remain. It is a first step on a looooong road - and not neccecarily worth it.

>I think we can safely assume Sunset was in the wrong, given her character in the first movie

No, we cannot. We can only assume, that Sunset went against rules set by Celestia - we have no hard evidence they were justified, nor we have strong evidence that dear Celly didn't fail in other related matters. We, however, definitely know, that Celly did a sloppy job with Twilight, otherwise Lesson Zero wouldn't be a thing.

>Whatever level of arrogance (confidence?) and mistrust is required to refuse forgiveness is the wrong level.
... and here I completely disagree with that. Arrogance (or pride) dictates, that forgiveness obtained before damage caused was repaired is an undeserved forgiveness.

Repairing what you did wrong is a step in the process, sure, but an effective one that can make things better, if not immediately perfect. It can't be a prerequisite for forgiveness, which is always undeserved and freely given, though restitution probably would be vital to relationship repair.

Have you read the comic The Fall of Sunset Shimmer, or don't you see it as canon? In absence of any other source, I'd say it makes it canon that Sunset was at fault, just as Twilight was at fault with her absurd over-reaction that surprised Celestia in Lesson Zero. If Celestia solved everything, there would be virtually no series; for a ruler with many other concerns and crippling plot constraints I think her work with Twilight and by extension Sunset has been reasonable and very good. Celestia is actually my fave Princess so we're probably not going to agree on her; but looking at Sunset alone, pre-friendship laser, she was clearly a demon before she was a demon.

5372076
>It can't be a prerequisite for forgiveness,
And here I disagree with you. When applicable, it should be.

>Have you read the comic The Fall of Sunset Shimmer
I did. It is poorly written and IMO should not be accepted into canon, but. If we assume it is canon, we have no idea how Sunset ended with personality she had in the comic. It is definitely a bad job of her caretakers, but we do not know how bad, nor we know how much of it is Celestia's personal fault.

>but looking at Sunset alone, pre-friendship laser, she was clearly a demon before she was a demon.
General nastiness is not a crime. Causing pain is, but that's different. Please, keep that in mind.

>>, just as Twilight was at fault with her absurd over-reaction that surprised Celestia in Lesson Zero

No-no-no, it not ONLY a Twilight's fault. Twilight is a unicorn with high magical potencial, and it was known long before Lesson Zero. Such power should be paired with responcibility to match. Twilight's caretakers didn't bother to ensure such responsibility, so it is just as much their fault as Twilight's. And yes, since Twilight was Celestia's personal student, it is Celestia's fault as well.

I thought Fall of Sunset was poorly written too, it was far too rushed and simplistic. Also I suspect Sunset would have scouted out the human world before going through the mirror, gaining the knowledge, resources (and, as you mentioned, faked ID documents) to integrate herself into CH so well.

However, everything else in TFOSS fits pretty well with the first movie (itself one of the weakest outings of MLP, IMO). I dislike the execution, but I can't object to the story itself.

Sunset might have had abusive parents for all we know; in my own fanfic they're such boring people that she's driven to become a pony above all ponies, by whatever means. But she has final moral responsibility for her own emotionally harmful actions and 'general nastiness' which really does hurt people, especially if they care about her like Celestia does. Actual harm includes brainwashing the school, defaming Twilight, scaring Fluttershy etcetera.

Like Sunset, Twilight has final responsibility for her actions in Lesson Zero; Celestia couldn't be reasonably expected to foresee that her student would frankly go off her head. There would be hardly any plot if Celestia foresaw such problems infallibly; blaming her for everything is frankly cheap.