3910235 I think I've seen Redemption or Forgiveness bandied about as possible elements for her, and it makes a certain amount of sense.

3910235 The Element of Tolerance, since she never complained about anyone reminding her of her past.

3910235

Forgiveness

3910235

I personally think its of Understanding or maybe Acceptance. She knows what villains go through and in my opinion she wanted to prove herself a worthy leader to Celestia by going into the various fields of magic and when she was refused she ran off into another room finding the mirror and getting a glimpse of what she thought was her destiny, but was really a warning of what she might become, a tyrannical alicorn feared by all when that power goes to her head. As stated by Celestia in the Crystal Empire Twilight learned what self-sacrifice was when she told Spike to forget about her and get the Crystal Heart to where it needed to be. Thus she succeeded where Sunset failed believing herself to be the only one able to do things the right way and that Celestia wasn't willing to teach her the things she thought she should learn. This all leads her to having an understanding of how ambition and power can lead one down a path of self destruction and thus being able to understand other evil beings and how to get through to them. For example I think she could understand Sombra fairly well and if he was sent to Human-Equestria then his lack of magic would force him to try to manipulate Sunset into getting Twilight to reopen the portal, but due to her experience with such things she'd be able to see through his tricks and eventually get through to him though it wouldn't be easy to do.

Seems like a good guess to me

While I really like the sound of "Forgiveness", it's almost like it'd be applied in the wrong direction in Sunset's case. Forgiveness is a personal act that benefits the one doing the forgiving. In Sunset's case, its everyone else that would be forgiving her, as opposed to it being an emotion coming from within Sunset herself.

Redemption is a great thought as well, but not necessarily a component of friendship as the other six are.

Which leads me to agree on something like Understanding or Acceptance, but needing some other word I feel to really capture it... but one that I'm still not settled on myself.

Edit: I missed the Tolerance above, and that's also a very valid candidate in my mind.

3910337 With forgiveness, it requires looking into the future for Sunset's character arc. Whatever element she is, as of Rainbow Rocks she's still probably not quite there when it comes to being an embodiment of that element yet. But the progression there would be "Is bad guy > Is Forgiven > Takes forgiveness to heart and learns to forgive others and apply that virtue in her day to day interactions with people."

Canonically, Sunset isn't there yet, but it seems to be the direction in which she's going.

3910235

Canonically, there is no seventh element. We know this for a fact because they all came from the Tree of Harmony and were always part of a set of six.

We also know for a fact that they do not actually require six wielders. Celestia and Luna found all six and were able to split them between just the two of them, not to mention Celestia could use all of them herself. They appear to choose whoever happens to be the most appropriate agent of harmony at the time.

Anyway, whatever power the Humane Six gained from the Element of Magic appears to be unrelated to the actual artifacts, and as such I think it's a bit incorrect to refer to them as element wielders in the first place. Be that as it may, there is absolutely no reason to think Twilight and Sunset can't both channel the Element of Magic at the same time.

3910348 I like this. Good insight.

Edit: And it plays very well into the fic I have going, especially the upcoming 4th chapter. Surprised it didn't occur to me in this context.

Second chances?

3910235

I like everyone's ideas, but I think that Alex Warlorn had a really good idea in his story when he said that Sunset Shimmer is the Element of Trust.

Personally, my ideas are probably REALLY bad, but, I see Sunset as the Element of Determination.

...OH! Or Humbleness, because one must humble themselves before they truly understand that they may need help, or even friends. Pride blinds you from the truth, and that's something that Sunset Shimmer had been struggling with. And Twilight also had been struggling with pride before she too realized that see needed friends.

*Shrug* I don't know, I guess we'll have to wait and see. (I SO hate waiting...)

3910235 Well, I'm 66,000 words into trying to explain my headcanon for this one and I've had the same question in my mind since I first saw the finale of Rainbow Rocks. The seventh band to the rainbow challenges me - and I think is a challenge to all of the canon that we thought we knew. I favor Sunset as the Element of Redemption, but Forgiveness works nearly as well. I think that because she's fallen into darkness and returned to the light, she can help others do the same.

Celestia and Luna found and wielded the six elements of harmony. Then, in the Season Four premiere, we saw Celestia wield them herself against Nightmare Moon. Many of us have seen the diagram with the five Elements arranged along the ring of a circle with Twilight's star representing the Element of Magic in the center. Many stories have alternate Bearers for the five Elements around the ring... but what would happen if the central Element required replacement?

The Tree of Harmony is changing - Twilight's castle and the treasure box was proof of that. Until it's definitively explained, we'll all get to speculate, which is part of the fun (as long as we all play nice)!

3910235 I agree with the majority: The Element of Forgivness or Redemption. Forgivness is very essential in any freindship.
~Estrella Scrolls

idk element of 'Reformation' I guess?

3910235
The Element of Looking Awesome In A Skirt?

I'm rather with Fervidor here. They aren't channeling the Elements of Harmony. Just like the Mane 6 aren't, really, at the end of Season 4. It's just the pure Magic of Friendship, baby. Raw and unfiltered.

How many friendships are saved or rebuilt every day simply because one side had the courage to say "I'm sorry"? How many wither because of unresolved feelings of guilt and things left unsaid? The willingness and fortitude to accept your past mistakes as your own and seek to make amends with those you've hurt, even though they are under no obligation to listen to you, let alone forgive - to atone - that is a quality I would rank as just as important for harmony between ponies and every friendship as loyalty, honesty or kindness.

So: The Element of Atonement. (That, at least, is the best word I've found so far for "The Element of Saying Sorry and Working to Make Amends".)

3910235 Also, someone above mentioned Sunset also being able to chanel magic with Twilight. This idea is lind of growing on me for a few reasons. First, I think mabey there was a prophecy or Celeatia knew somehow, there was goining to be a very magical pony who, with friends, could bear the elements. When Sunset displayes her large amount of magical ability, Celestia must have thought she was the one. She might have been, bet wentshe revolted against Celestia,maybe the Tree of Harmony choose a new host- Twilight. Now, since Sunset is "recormed" she can now take her place among the rest of the Element Bearers.
Its just a thought.
~Estrella Scrolls

Forgiveness sounds appropriate

3910235
Juuuuust something to consider if you go with the 'Forgiveness/Redemption/Atonement' thing everyone is mentioning.

Do you think that encapsulates Sunset Shimmer as a person?
Do you see the rest of her life being about making up for her mistake (which hurt nothing but the school's reserve fund to fix the facade damage?). Will she never, ever grow from that point? Is everything she's about forever defined by that moment?

Will she wake every morning and start atoning? Just like Pinkie wakes up every morning to spread joy? Or how Rarity strives ever to show the world the beautiful way she sees it, asking for nothing in return but acknowledgement?

3910944 If forgiveness/redemption/atonement is her virtue, then yes, she is forever defined by that moment.

Not defined by the mistakes she made, but that she was given the gift of forgiveness in the first place.

Viewed through that lens, Sunset's primary struggle in Rainbow Rocks was that she needed to accept and to forgive herself for her actions, even though the others had already done so. The next step in her journey and growth would be to find a way to spread that gift to others who need it. (EQG Twilight?)

She wouldn't wake up every morning and atone for her sins. She'd wake up every morning and help someone else do so.*

*This is all obviously just headcanon and speculation.

3910352
3910944
Agree with above 2. Sunset is not some element of "forgiveness", "atonement", or whatever. She didn't burn down an orphanage and have to spend the rest of her life angsting and atoning. Her life will be bigger than that. She's the Element of Magic, baby. Twilight Sparkle be damned.

She has the brains for Big Magic and the cajones to be Big Hero, and she has leadership chops too. She's not a support Element, she's Red Leader.

3911055
Nah, you make a pretty good point.

I don't envy her though.

3910337
3911055

I felt the need to point out one very important fact, Tolerance only goes so far. Back before and during the the civil rights movement people TOLERATED Africans, but they were often lynched or otherwise prosecuted. I could also bring up the South Park episode where Big Gay Al pursued a legal case against a scouts group for their Homophobia, but dropped his case wanting them to learn acceptance of the gay community not force it. I do however get where people are coming from when they suggest Redemption since I was once on that band wagon, but Redemption comes through the Principles of Friendship. Kindness can work with those who are lonely psychopaths like Discord or simply weary of the world and its cruel ways. Honesty can work with those that lie to themselves and break through their delusions to show them the truth. Laughter (or as I like to call it Joy) can be used to show the tragic figures that their is light in the world and that their are those who will help them through the dark times. Loyalty can be used to show those with abandonment issues that although there are people who will leave them, their are also those that will stick with them to the end. Lastly we have Generosity which can get through to those who believe the world to be a selfish place where everyone will step on anyone to get ahead in life, but it can backfire horribly in the end like it did during Rarity's key episode "Rarity Takes Manehattan". Understanding is getting the motivations behind a person's actions, knowing what they were trying to do, and making them question if what they were doing was really worth it in the end. Thus the Principle of Understanding is Sunset's Element Of Harmony due to her background, personality, and knowledge of the tactics that creatures like Sombra and Chrysalis use to try and get ahead in life. This is just a headcanon though so take it with a grain of salt like you would any other.

3910235 I think the consensuses is that she might represent forgiveness and I agree but I think she could also be hope, as in she represent the hope that people can change for the better.

Sunset Shimmer has the element of Trust/Forgiveness

Something along those lines.

For me, it's like Sunset is the alternate element of magic. It's her talent, and was the thing that drew her towards friendship. We already know that there can be multiple wielders of the elements of harmony (ex. Luna and Celestia), so this is possible.

Also, there is virtually no way (unless there's a ton of plot holes) that she could represent a new element. There's only ever been six, and only ever will be six. Even if she had a new element, her element couldn't be forgiveness or trust either, considering there is no time that she had shown forgiveness for others, they've shown it to her.

So considering, she could be the element of friendship. Friendship = Magic, and vice-versa. I guess it wouldn't really make sense for her element to be magic, as there is basically no 'magic' magic in the human world, so she would represent friendship

But if she were to be a new element, it would be courage. I took the time to look on the online thesaurus (Oh I know, i'm a nerd), and it seems like the word fits well for her, and the synonyms do too. Also what I found on the all mighty thesaurus says that a antonym for courage is humily, which is what Sunset was struggling with in the past. Hm, interesting.

I still feel the need to add on to what I said about her element being courage, so I'll use some examples. I looked at an article to give me some ideas here.

Some of the most courageous people in the world have become that because their conscience simply would not allow them to ignore what was happening around them This is a great example of when she had to finally tell the humane 5 how they were fighting, she couldn't stand there and watch.

Courage is not the absence of fear. True courage is feeling fear, but doing what needs to be done anyway. When Sunny was afraid of singing, but she took a deep breath and did it anyway.

Imagine, for example, that you lose your job. You fail to find work, through no fault of your own, and slowly, the life you have built begins to crumble beneath your feet. The easy option would be to give up. Decide that life is conspiring against you, and allow whatever will happen to happen. The courageous choice would be to keep getting up every morning, and going out there to find a job, knowing that eventually, one day, your luck will change. Keeps persevering to prove to all that she can move on and change who she is.

No matter what you choose to do in life, whether it’s study towards something, open a business, go into politics, or anything else, there are going to be negative people around you, who will try to convince you that you can’t achieve your goal. When everyone at school basically hates her and says mean things around her.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if you look at the truly courageous through history, there was at least one person that believed in them, and stood by them. A mentor, partner or friend, there’s always someone, standing in the wings, rooting for them. All of her friends that support her

Now I must ask, what am I doing with my life spending like 20 minutes arguing something that really doesn't matter? Meh, oh well. It was kind of fun.

3910235
I think Hope is her element

The element of Tolerance I agree with. Not many people or ponies can Tolerate much without saying something about it at least once.

3910235
I'm with 3910352 and 3910692 (as usual, ); I don't think Sunset represents a specific seventh element, nor is she supposed to represent the EQG bearer of Magic in place of Twilight.

I like to think of it this way... if Rainbow Power is truly the Magic of Friendship, why would such a magic be limited to only being wielded by a set number of users?

'The more friends I make, the stronger the magic of friendship will grow!'

'Nah, once you hit five or six friends you're good and can stop.'

'Wat?'

I think the ending of Rainbow Rocks where we see a seventh color added to the Rainbow represents the fact that the Magic of Friendship is limitless, and that everyone has it within them... even former raging she-demons,

Sunset Shimmer could be the Element of Support. Her main contributions in Rainbow Rocks were to help pick everyone up off the floor and get the team back on track, and to buy time for the others to get back on their feet before adding herself to enhance what was complete without her and make it better and stronger.

Alternatively...

4033281 Maybe more than one individual can be connected to any given element of harmony. Not that everypony is, mind you, but other ponies who embody that quality as well as the member of the Mane Six who holds that element (though not necessarily in the same way) could fulfill the same role, and other ponies might have lesser connections to the elements. Easiest example: Cheese Sandwich is essentially a male Pinkie Pie, so if my theory is correct, he could use the Element of Laughter in her absence, and possibly join with her to strengthen it.

3910944
3911281
I'd vote for Trust... I think.

Forgiveness is definitely out, for the reasons mentioned above; in the grand scheme of things, Equestria Girls and the events leading up to it are an important episode in Sunset's life, but just one episode of several.

I'd also vote against magic. Magic and friendship are the same thing, so whoever bears magic is going to have to end up genuinely caring about anyone and everyone. Princess Celestia is pretty much there, and Twilight Sparkle is on track to be freakishly well-adjusted, but Sunset Shimmer will never be quite like that. She respects determination and ambition, and post-Equestria Girls she'll always have a soft spot for repentant evildoers (I particularly like the thought of her trying to befriend the Sirens), but she disdains the frivolous, the lazy, the treacherous, and the narcissistic, and she probably always will.

If I was going to name one abstract idea that defines Sunset, it would be ambition; her cutie mark probably represents setting goals and exceeding them. But ambition is hardly an aspect of friendship. Friends can hold you back and drag you down; ambition can cause you to lose friends, or never bother making them at all.

Trust, though... It's definitely a part of friendship, and it's definitely something that Sunset interacts with. If you have the time of day for the comics, The Fall of Sunset Shimmer is about a relationship that failed for lack of trust, and the rest of the Annual is fundamentally about trust (and while I'm deliberately not mentioning the Equestria Girls Holiday Derailment of the Entire Setting here, trust just might be called relevant to that one as well). The same goes for both movies, at least to an extent -- more for Rainbow Rocks, which was Sunset's movie, than for Equestria Girls, which was Twilight's. And while trust hardly defines Sunset, generosity doesn't define Rarity either, and loyalty is secondary for Rainbow Dash...

So I'd probably support trust, but I'm feeling less sure now than I used to be -- and I'm definitely seeing the merits of EmeraldSkies' proposal of Courage. (3958286 3967700)

3910235
3910337
3910492

Forgiveness. It's vital to friendship, we all make mistakes, being able to forgive and grow is important to maintaining and building that trust. More than that there is a view of the elements that, while common, people don't realize they share. That view is that the characters not only perform acts of their elements more than others, it's that they elicit those elements from others. And if Sunset elicits anything it's a willingness to forgive and/or provide a second chance. After Rainbow Rocks, if anyone could convince the school that someone was worth a second chance it would be Sunset.

Think of all the main 6 when they found their keys. Fluttershy elicited kindness in those tiny fighting creatures. Rarity elicited generosity from over a dozen ponies. Applejack was rewarded after other ponies stood up for honesty. Pinkie got hers when she got others to not only laugh, but to relax and have fun as opposed to compete. Rainbow dash got hers when other ponies decided that holding friends in the highest regards was more important that numbers on a grading sheet. (Okay, rainbows almost doesn't fit this but then again AJ has always been mor loyal than Rainbow so that's fubar from the beginning.)

Now think about how a forgiveness arc would have fit into a story like that. Somepony did something wrong in the past that others still hte her for. Then something started happening that leads other to think it's the pony who did something similar the first time. Of course, she's already been ostracized, and as such doesn't act like a normal pony, maybe even being confrontational. But Sunset stands up for the pony and gets shot down. The crowd might even say/hint that Sunset is just projecting because she had made mistakes before and learned from them. Then something happens to possibly show her that it might, in fact, be that way. After all, what if she's wrong, ponies could get hurt, and nothing else points at anyone else. Then the bad thing happens again and Sunset has to make a choice to stop others from making rash decisions. Sunset stands up for the poor girl accused of all the recent mischief. Sunset's speech empowers causes another pony to speak up about something they saw but were to scared to talk about because of how hell bent the crowd was of blaming an innocent pony. With everyone listening they realize they made a mistake and apologies, giving that innocent pony the second chance that they hadn't given ever sense they caused problems the first time. As a token of thanks that pony gives her something special, something that they were holding onto to give them hope that things would get better. She gives it to Sunset because she doesn't need it anymore.

A story arc like that, it just feels right for best pony. And sure, it's kind of rare to need forgiveness. But if it's needed it's really needed.

Though 3967700 has a point. Humility would fit very well with her now.

3910352 4033281
As for the comments about there only being 6 elements of harmony. What if it's not an Element of Harmony. What if The Elements of Harmony as simply the strongest aspects of friendship. It could be looked at as forgiveness requires strife and thus doesn't fall into harmony, but it is valuable to friendship. Maybe there are other lesser elements out there like patience and forgiveness?

This was talked about a lot in Fallout Equestria BTW, not just my idea. (Not that that supports my argument, just giving credit where it's due.) In FOE an important character states that they are the most important elements, but not the only ones. It's not cannon but it does leave a lot of room from a writing perspective that I could totally see the show writers using. Show writers of all sorts love interesting ideas the don't limit them as much.

4105047

(Okay, rainbows almost doesn't fit this but then again AJ has always been mor loyal than Rainbow so that's fubar from the beginning.)

Not always, but much of the time an Element is actually found on the pony who doesn't initially embody it but has the highest potential to earn it and grow from doing so.
That's why even though AJ is intrinsically more loyal than RD, RD holds that element. Her entire first character arc is earning that element, and then throughout the rest of the first 3 seasons, she grows from getting in touch with that element.
This principle applies to the others too.

4105097

I could see that.

3910235 Her mark is a Yin/Yang, from the show.

4105162 Going by the mark, she seems to have the seeed of the oposit in her.

The instantly redeemable villn, as it were.
As opposed to Trixie, who turns back to her old mistakes first chance.

3910239 I'm with the Forgiveness party. Part of being a friend means forgiving others their past mistakes, and it also means forgiving your own past mistakes; a big part of Rainbow Rocks was Sunset forgiving herself and moving on from what she'd done, rather than have it continue to hang around her neck like an albatross.

That's my take and I'm sticking to it.

ent of humbleness, forgiveness, hope all seem to fit her story arc post rainbow rocks. I however subscribe to forgiveness, I think the mane five, forgiving her helps herself. At which point she'll begin to forgive others, aka human Twilight in EQG 3 after she goes she demon..

I believe Sunset Shimmer is a bearer of the Element of Magic.

We know she was being groomed to bear the Element by Celestia, but after she left she was replaced with Twilight. The climax of Equestria Girls showed that she had the magical power to wield it, but not the understanding of friendship.

I've always thought of the Element of Magic as the Element of Leadership. Twilight, through her innate understanding of the magic of friendship, serves as the glue that holds the Mane Six together and the spark that ignites them. However, she developed, and continues to develop, this understanding through her interactions with her friends. In the first episode, she starts out more concerned about her studies than about friendship. It's her interactions with the other ponies that teach her of the power of friendship and enable her to wield the Element of Magic.

Fast forward to Rainbow Rocks. Sunset Shimmer started out more concerned about the power of magic than the friendship it stemmed from, but her solid defeat at the hands of the Mane Six showed her the error of her ways. She then spent a considerable amount of time learning about the magic of friendship in the way that the others interacted with each other, and how they stood by her through all of the fallout from her actions. She spent Rainbow Rocks gradually transitioning to a leadership role in the group, beginning with her idea to contact Twilight and culminating in her leading the final song against the Dazzlings.

And look at that scene! She begins singing, which inspires the others to get up and continue. Twilight joins her, and they sing in unison so that their faces are practically touching. Then they reach out their hands, and together produce a rainbow that breaks the Dazzlings' hold on the crowd. Sunset isn't wielding an ancillary Element; she and Twilight are wielding the Element of Magic together. And this makes sense: Twilight has a deep knowledge and experience with friendship, but she has spent less than a week with these versions of her friends, who are marginally different than the people she knows back home. Sunset is inexperienced and timid, but has spent several months getting to know them and developing a close bond. Together, they can do what neither of them can do alone. It has been established that one person can use multiple elements, so it stands to reason that multiple people can wield one.

Sunset has now come full circle, from someone who misunderstood and misused the Element of Magic to one of its bearers. In the future, she may be able to wield it by herself, filling the hole Twilight leaves in the group.

Redemption

Element of balance. She has a yin/yang symbol incorporated into her cutie mark. Since she is a reformed villain, she understands the mindset in ways that the others don't. She can anticipate and counter their tactics and possibly continue to use such tactics without falling back to the dark side.

3910235 Meghan McCarthy's suggested her element is Empathy. I can agree with that.

4320692

Reading through this thread, I guess I like Courage the most. It's usually considered a cardinal virtue (much like Honesty, Kindness, etc), and I suppose courage in the moral sense can be an important part of friendship. One might argue that Sunset displayed this quality by standing up for her friends at the end of Rainbow Rocks.

Forgiveness could very well be an Element of Friendship, but I'm not sure it's a trait I associate with Sunset.

4539232 A thought on forgiveness, in context of the Elements of Harmony; the core elements, Honesty and Kindness or whatnot, seem like the foundation of a friendship, with Magic being the end result. Forgiveness might well be the mortar used to keep the foundation together.

Real friends will have your back at the end of the day. Part of that involves forgiveness.

4539565

Well, my point was, forgiveness doesn't strike me as Sunset's primary characteristic.

4540186 Ah. Well yes, you're right.

4540222

Hey, you're the one who necroed it.

4540330

Lies! I saw you do it. You had the black cloak and the pentagram with the skulls and everything.