I've been listening to Tempest Shadow's song, "Open up your eyes" on repeat for awhile and I can't stop myself from thinking that she did have a point in how Twilight, hell Equestria as a whole, seems to see things. Friendship shouldn't always be the only solution to their problems and the Storm King's army proved why; they got completely decimated because nopony knew what to do when facing against an opposing force that's actually competent in their attack. A fact that wasn't helped by the Royal Guard being completely MIA during the whole invasion, but when you think about it? How effective would they have even been? Given their track record, I'm willing to say "not at all".....

And Tempest's backstory is a prime example of what she means by "give up your sweet fantasyland"; everypony thinks Equestria is this happy go-lucky and wonderful place where nothing can hurt them. And if something ever did come along to hurt them, their magical heroes and immortal princess would solve whatever problem it was. But it's not. As soon as Tempest lost her horn and fell out of the "status quo" that Equestria has established, she was abandoned and left all alone. What she did after that wasn't the best way one could've gone about coping, but it's understandable. Not justifiable but understandable. Not everypony's story begins or even ends in "sunshine and rainbows" like how Twilight's does and it's something that I think she needs to learn.

Like it or not, you have to admit that Twilight has lived an extremely privileged life; born in the wealthiest city in Equestria, went to Celestia's School for Gifted Foals, became said princess' personal protege, destined to be the Element of Magic and a princess. Every problem she's ever faced has been overcome with full support from those she loves and admires, she was never really left in a position to face her problems alone. So, it's not hard to see why she puts so much faith into the "Magic of Friendship" since it's always seemed to work out for her and her own friends. Yet, she hardly ever seems to take into account that not everyone's background is going to be the same as her's. As Princess of Friendship, Twilight needs to learn to distance her own experiences with those of the ponies she wants to help.....

But these are just my own thoughts that I wanted to share. Feel free to share your own opinions.

6284984
I agree. I was watching a review of the movie and someone pointed out how in other parts of the world people are willing to sell someone into slavery for food and in Equestria they are bathing in it.

I have to agree yet disagree with this.

Yes I think the ponies do underestimate the peace they have and how fragile it is. As seen, with enough planning you can easily take over Equestria. They can't always have a princess save them and the movie shows that fatal flaw in how there county's defenses work. They would have to beefed up the military a quite a bit if they want to stand a better chance against enemies but the best thing they could do is have anti-magic weapons and armor made. That would defeat 90% of the shows major villans with almost no problems. Then you would have to get civilians to try to accept the idea of excelling toward a more defensive county and to see if you can get then to thrive on these new ideals. It's also worth pointing out the Tempest Shadow and Starlight Glimmer both became villans because they where abandoned by their "friends" and for some reason couldn't make new ones (and yes Tempest lack of horn helped her turn into a villan but if her friends didn't leave she probably would have been ok) if friendship wasn't the most important thing, then maybe there would be less problems and villans for the ponies to deal with.

But also no, I don't think this would be the best because it's Equestria. There friendship is literally a form of magic. Without friendship as there main basis of life, then there lives would probably be worse. After all its the only thing keeping the windigo's out and who knows what else. Not only that but Twilight was made the princess of friendship for a reason. Without her friendship missions then Equestria would more then likely fall into a miserable state and would have been conquered by the changlings. Friendship does seem to work great for the ponies for the most part simply because they usually only get one villan attacking them at a time. Only the Storm king and Chrysalis had armys and they were still defeated because of friendship (and love). I have no doubt in my mind that Twilight will continue spreading friendship to help others and will probably be ecstatic to do so. Maybe she'll take on more students or have a friendship tour across Equestria or start a school like Celestia did or even start going to different countries to spread friendship. They also have the pillars back now so Equestria should be even safer then before.

Either way you look at it, I think both sides of the argument have valid points.

I believe Tempest was right in the fact that - if you think about it - the ponies do sort of squander their magic; instead of advancing magically and technologically they choose to - as she put it - waste it on parties. I'd love to read a fic where somepony agrees with this and tries to change it, with or without the consent/help of the Princesses. This also leads into... everything outside Equestria seems to be a shithole.

Griffinstone = shithole.

Dragonlands = shithole.

Badlands Hive = maybe. Now not a shithole because MOF changed Thorax--but without a QUEEN to PRODUCE more friendly Changelings, could become a shithole, the Changelings slowly dying out. But... perhaps mitigated as there ARE drones who seem to be 'female' (character voices.)

6285012
Doesn't that just prove that Equestria's ways are better? Having so much food and luxuries around with little to no problems would mean they are quite successful, while some of the other countries seem to have fallen into a state of crime and poverty which would prove problematic for it's people. If anything those countries government should try to implement a system that would change how things work and try to gain alies.

6285015
While I want to agree with Tempest on the whole wasted magic on parties thing, I can't because we don't know how much advancement there actually is in Equstria. So far they seem much more advanced than most of the places we've seen. As for the parties, Pinkie is usually the one throwing then so it's hard to tell if it's an equestrian thing or just a Pinkie being Pinkie thing. Guess we will just have to wait till we get more information.

And yeah, most of the other places suck. At least the hippogryphs seem to be doing ok in their underwater kingdom.

6285020
I think the other countries were like the mainly because of a warlord going around and conquering everyone. I don't think a new government is over that fix that.

Equestria is not successful what they are is spoiled. A successful nation does not nearly collapse every time someone try to attack them. A thousand years of peace made ponies complacent, and you can put most, if not all, of the blame on Celestia.

6285027
Ok you have a point with the warlord but I still think Equestria is mostly successful.

The majority of the threats barely lasted more then a few hours and only effected a city or two. Yes, some of the threats did have a huge impact but they were still defeated in the end. I will say that the ponies should have a back up plans for stuff like that but as you said they had a thousand years of peace so I can't blame them for not having one plus Twilight and her friends usually defeat the threat before it goes nation wide. Only Tirek was able to do that. (we can't count the storm king because we don't know if he took over all of equestria or just canterlot).

I do agree about Celestia though. After Chrysalis she should have started working on more ways to ensure her country's safety then just hoping that the elements solve everything. Even if she thought another alicorn would be enough, someone should have thought of backup plans. I mean Chrysalis literally took over both Equestria and the Crystal Empire and the only reason she failed was because of an oversight on her part.

So no, I think the ponies are doing mostly fine with there country but yes, they probably should of started on improving there defenses after more threats started to appear

6285043
agreed

6284984
This certainly is quite the debate starter. I'm a former idealist turned cynical, so Open Up Your Eyes resonates with me a lot (I know how it feels to lose something and be rejected by someone precious to you at a young age). As for my thoughts, I would say that there are points where Friendship being magic (literally) is irrefutable, the power of mercy, compassion, and understanding is enough to move continents considering how much it can change people who seem lost forever. But, it is not, and never will be, the only solution, just as violence isn't, that is not how reality works, there is no one answer (short of Omnipotence of course), so I would say that in regards to Equestria, yes they should bulk up a bit, but if they want to be considered the peak of friendship, they should stop being so isolated in their attitude as a country and share their bounty with the world... and I know somepony could take that as "conquer to share" but I mean in a "trade and connect" kind of way, because it seems like whatever connections they have now aren't that far yet. Heck, they should work with the dragons more, as they seem good for a fight and could use more cohesion.

...and now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go listen to Open Up Your Eyes

6284984
I don't care about the movie.
But it is nice to know that the movie was self-aware about Equestria's weakness.
While in the show they never learn from their weakness.
( I'm looking at you "To Where and Back Again" episode. )

6284984
Tempest Shadow in general had a point about Equestria.

6285012

That's another thing that Tempest's song brings notice to; how Equestria just doesn't give a shit about what goes on beyond their borders. Like you said, it's a struggle just to provide food in some places, so much so, that doing the unimaginable is a reliable source to do so. Yet, Pinkie Pie can afford to eat her weight in sweets everyday and the Cakes are still above water and Applejack has an apple orchard so large that she can distribute apples all over the country with many to spare. Equestria's abundant supply of food has to be because of their influence on the weather and the Earth pony tribes ability to manipulate the soil for their harvests.

Yet with all of this food? Why haven't they shared it with any of the countries that seem to so desperately need it? Oh! It's because their magical and mystical MAP hasn't bestowed unto them the "mission" to tackle this particular brand of friendship problem. Since that's the only way they ever seem to learn and/or bother with the ongoing problems of the world around them....

And again, you're right, 6285027. Ponies are little more than spoiled brats and it's almost entirely Celestia's fault. She's coddled them all of their lives and, as a result, they can't handle when things don't go their way and are entirely dependent on a group of six civilians and rulers that have proven to be just as incompetent on the battle field as their guard.....

6285058

6285093

6285108
I don't particularly care for it either. Still, the Mane 6 do damage on both sides, thus proving Ms. Observer's point.

I would like to see an episode or a fic where

• A character other than Twilight points out how they're always relying on the Princesses to the point that they can't do anything.

• Celestia had a chance to help a nation beyond Equestrian borders and she didn't which comes back to bite her in her cake filled plot. (Thar's cake in them flanks!)

• The ponies FINALLY learn from a weakness.

6285108
This might sound cruel but why should Equestia care? If it's not one of their allies, why should the ponies try to help? They have literally no reason to help the more hostile countries. If they had sent an ambassador they would have probably been sold into slavery or worse.

You might think I'm exaggerating but look at all the places we've seem so far.

Dragonlands: Was hostile untill Ember took over, prideful, prefers their tougher lifestyle

Griffinstone: very greedy, can barely keep themselves from falling further into disarray

Klugetown (Panthera, Abyssinia): filled to the brim with criminal.

Now tell me, would you ally your counrty to them? They have nothing to trade, nothing of real value. The most of an agreement I can see being made would be a promise not to attack each other.

The only other thing Celestia could possibly do is forcefully take over and that itself would talk up a lot of time and resources. Not to mention all the lives she would be endangering on both sides.

I do agree on Celestia needing to strengthen their defense. A country's defenses should not just be one group of ponies and the princesses. They really need to show the royal guards and the wonderbolts doing something competent.

Well at least the pillars are back, so that might help.

6285124
6285108
6285015

Oh my god, there needs to be a doomfist fic about him going to equestra now or atleast a displaced as him with his ideals.

6284984
I don't know. The ponies seem to have a pretty good track record with Friendship. The Storm King died and his army was scattered to the winds. If that's the reward for competency, it apparently doesn't have much practical value. Celestia still sits on a throne in her palace, beloved by all, while her enemies are killed, disgraced, or reformed no matter how cunning or ruthless they were in trying to unseat her.

6285570
Because they are Inverted Cosmic Playthings, meaning no matter how good the villains are, the ponies are going to win via deus ex machina or sheer dumb luck, because the universe seems to love them.

6285669
Yeah, and I only see a handful of fics pick this up and run with it even though it seems to be a crucial element of the way the Ponyverse operates.

6285320

But there are two things about this that still doesn't help Equestria's case; that we don't know how long the countries have been this bad and that they are perfectly capable of helping conditions in the other countries.....just whenever they feel like it.

Celestia is, as far as we know, an immortal princess. And that entails that she was most likely around when the more hostile countries weren't that hostile and when they started to take a turn for the worst; since she's the one that's always preaching about "spreading friendship" and "lending a hoof to those in need", where was this philosophy when these countries had needed it most? I concede this is pure speculation, but when you have an immortal ruler, you have to think about just what they were doing at the time of collapse for a few of these countries....

And it's a perfectly legitimate reason to stray from problematic countries, regardless if the above statement is true or not, but there is another factor to think about here. The Map called Rainbow Dash and Pinkie Pie to "solve" a friendship problem in Griffonstone. And I can't deny that all of the points that you brought up about them are untrue and are probably still in effect....but they still did it anyways. Why? Because they finally decided to. And not even that, they had to have some magical artifact that appeared out of nowhere tell them to go and help. But once that happened? The argument goes right out the window; Griffonstone might be on the incline, but it seems to be a slow process, so they still have nothing of value to trade with Equestria. It's not just a matter of "being cautious", but a matter of the ponies just not bothering with anything until they feel like it or are told to do something about it.....

6285843
You make a fair point but I still feel like we're missing crucial pieces of information. Maybe Celestia tried to establish treaty's with the other countries but they were to prideful to accept.

That doesn't excuse her from not trying to keep up to date with what's going on outside her kingdom. If she did maybe she would have seen the storm king coming.

I do wonder why nobody bothered to travel to some of those places though. With how old that book on griffonstone was, it's clear that there's nobody going there but other griffons. Maybe Equstria is a isolated nation. That would explain something's.

In any case, I think we can both agree that Celestia's not the best at keeping her kingdom safe anymore.