The Gammaverse Group 62 members · 7 stories
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This is only a what if based on an idea I had formed when I started reading Conversion Bureau stories.

What if there is an extinct version of humanity native to Equestria, unaffected by thaumic radiation, found mid way through the Earth being swallowed up. What if a viable genetic template could be made from fossils found? Could a 'potion' be created that would allow the remaining humans, who don't want to be turned into another form of life, to be able to pass through the barrier?

While entirely possible, due to many aesthetic parallels between Equestria and Mundis, it is highly improbable, due to the unstable nature of thaumatic energies inherent to the Equestrian universe, and the fact that no signs of recent human civiization exist in the world. The likelihood of finding any intact humanoid remains in Equestria, or any from which a viable gene sequence could be taken, is slim to none. However, there are still plenty of options, and a multitude of possibilities.

Sue

I sense a non-cannon story coming soon now.

I see Guardian Gryphon hasn't commented here yet, but I think I can guess what he might say...

Who would want to 'convert' to a human with the only change being able to survive crossing the dimensional barrier? Each member of the current palette of options is, physically, much more capable and advantageous than being a human, and converts don't loose any of humanity's advantages in terms of drive, or the problem solving that leads to better and better tools that make a high tech soldier such a mighty foe.

My answer would be that it kind of neuters the whole central concept of Gammaverse, that the three broad options are to give up human shape, reach for a new home among the stars, or disintegrate when the barrier hits you.

True, I can see the HLF drooling at the idea of being able to send still-human spies across the barrier...

747000 It doesn't 'neuter' the central concept. I thought it was choice. Having all sentient species being a possibily gives the choice that would be missing. Hell this concept could happen after earth is eaten up. I think I remember reading in Threshold that the only species whose forms are absolutely fixed are gryphons and draconics.

Guardian_Gryphon
Group Admin

Not in Gammaverse no.

In fact a central mechanic of Equestria, in Gammaverse, is that it abhors human biological form on a quantum level. In effect this is the scientific equivalent of 'it can't happen here, sorry.' You can't even make an android or anything similar to a human without it being forcibly broken down and destroyed.

There have never been, and never will be, human-formed creatures in Equestria.

747000
Exactly.

Even if you *could* stay human, you could never hope to survive. Human form is incredibly weak, and could never ever be sufficiently upgraded or augmented, even given infinite time, magic, and technology, to be able to survive Equestrian diseases, let alone environmental hazards and enemies, or the rigors of day to day life.

Forget this one right off the bat. :P

747054
You bring up an important point, one that makes me glad I said "My answer," which is the Fallacy of Authorial Intent. In short, it doesn't matter what the author was thinking, what matters is what we get from reading the story. To me, one of the critical points at the core of Option Gamma is that your only choices are what you'll lose, (your shape, your homeworld, or your life) and what you gain in return for that choice (a better body, the stars, or true freedom, respectively). That's what I get out of these stories, but your mileage may vary.

As far a magic-adapted human potion goes, if you don't like the "fossil remains from Equestria" idea, here are two alternatives...

First off, in Option Gamma it's mentioned that Earth isn't the first dimension to be linked with Equestria, as the Diamond Dog Troll subspecies came from a dimension that had 'brushed past' Equestria. There's nothing to say that more such glancing encounters couldn't happen even while Equestria's dimension is in the process of crashing into Earth, and that third-party dimension could have magic adapted humans... which could cause yet more problems, if they've adapted into something like the Psi-Stalkers from the Rifts setting.

Idea two comes from the fact that I don't recall there being any requirement that the 'target species' needing to EXIST for the potion to be made; you'd just need to create the genetic code that would give the traits you wanted. The problem there, (and good story ideas should always suggest at least one problem) is that building a new species that WORKS properly (as in, no species-wide lethal allergies to common plants, or mayfly lifespans) would require either uninteresting luck, unethical live experimentation, or running prohibitively expensive computer simulations, that would probably exceed the development costs of all other variants of potion by an order of magnitude.

But, it wouldn't be completely impossible, and given what the HLF are prepared to do to their own members to produce infiltrator ponies (see, mayfly lifespans) and cyborg augments (lots of pain, and they get an unoptimized 'beta' version of what the technology is possible of) I could see the HLF using a psudo-human potion to infiltrate Equestria.

747065
I'm glad I hit 'refresh comments' before I hit 'add comment'. Consider the above ideas suggestions for stories outside the Gammaverse canon.
I can still see the HLF trying to get a 'real' human into Equestria in canon, but if the effort is that doomed to failure, it wouldn't make for much of a story.

Westphalian_Musketeer
Group Contributor

747065 Out of curiosity, if earth still had its own animals, how badly would Angel Bunny stomp/out-compete/thoroughly trounce a rabbit/bunny/hare from Earth?

I imagine that even then the Equestrian bunny would be more badass. There I've gone and answered my own question.

Ah well,
"People must be taught as though you taught them not, and things learned as things forgot."
- Alexander Pope

I've been tempted to have a conversation where someone explains that to do something like this.

"Ponies, who have yet to independently create gene therapy or nanotechnology within Equestria, would have to make, from scratch, an organism that matches the physiology and psychology of humans, and make sure said creature wouldn't instantly die from Equestrian disease, predators, and weather. Then they'd have to make enough of these creatures, which would be sapient themselves, to have a viable sampling to create a potion by which to convert people into this 'uber human'. This isn't a matter of building Rome in a day, this is a matter of condensing a billion years of evolution in the course of decades, and quite frankly. Back on the sapience that these newly made 'uber humans' would present, how do you think they'd react to learning they were made with the express purpose of saving a race? To be a tool? If my mother had birthed me to save a stranger on the street, even if I lived after the fact, I would feel diminished that mere existence of myself was predicated on the suffering of another."

Guardian_Gryphon
Group Admin

747122
In all stories there is a point at which Story Points > Logic.
Some people call it 'rule of cool,' but really the RoC is just a subset of this phenomena.
As is 'moving at the speed of plot.'

One of the staple truths of Gammaverse is that there will never be Humans in Equestria. There never can be, and no amount of power, magical or scientific, will over-ride this.

Why?

Because part of what makes Equestria special, to me, is that there are no Homo Sapiens in it.
Humans are boring. Most TV shows, books, movies, and stories in the mainstream are about Homo Sapiens, or aliens that look and feel so similar that they are interchangeable.

This incidentally is why I probably won't watch the new FiM spin-off series. Its not that I think, or prejudge, that it will be terrible, its just that one of the biggest draws to FiM, for me, was that it was Ponies. In other words, its not FiM if you do it with humans.

Now of course, the interesting point you touched on is the way the HLF is going to try to get its own into Equestria.
Given that Diamond Dog and Dragon Conversions don't always impose morality-locks, I expect that there will be trouble from the HLF long after Earth is gone.

747215 If you get down to it, It is opinion in the end. My personal one being that yes humanity in a dormant and/or repressed state is very boring and unintersting. However when fully awake and coherent, Impossible things can happen.

Edited: Might have been a good idea to post this in general TCB group forums.

Edited 2x: Actually I'm gonna do that. Sorry for bringing up the subject here.

Guardian_Gryphon
Group Admin

747361
Nah that's ok.
I'd never been publicly clear on the point of the no-humans-allowed policy, so it logically bore asking. :eeyup:

747385 Yea and this idea came from my own personal headcanon for MLP's anicent history included a very advanced form of humanity existed before being wiped out.

Given that Diamond Dog and Dragon Conversions don't always impose morality-locks, I expect that there will be trouble from the HLF long after Earth is gone.

I've seen the HLF as being a classic 'Reactionary' group, where a group that has a lot invested in, and does extremely well under, the status quo (aka, Earth before Equestria arrived) reacting violently when something comes along that threatens their nice secure status quo. (Here I'm talking about the upper echelon, leadership, the ones with the money, etc.) But given that their power base comes from their holdings on Earth, I don't see how the HLF, even if enough convert while still holding to their agenda, would have enough resources to mount a credible threat after Earth is gone, and Equestria is no longer connected to Earth's universe.
Unless...
Chrysalis winds up using the remains of the HLF as a hidden proxy force against her foes, supplying them with the materiel to carry out their terrorist acts against groups Chrysalis is opposed to.

(Also, thinking about the aforesaid logic, and typing it up, soothes my troubled soul, something I am grateful for, given my mood these days. Also! My first occasion to use the spoiler tag!)

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