Hey, guys, now that Starlight is friends with yet another fan favorite character in an attempt to grant her legitimacy, how long before she becomes friends with the most popular fan-pony of all, Ms. Harshwhinny?

5930423
That's a bit, I dunno, harsh of you, Sky. I mean, maybe she's just making a circle of friends using established characters who don't already have a friend-harem. Do you really think this is all just a ploy to get audiences to accept her more?

5930425
It looks like pretty classic Mary Sue behavior to me.

5930426
Yeah, but, you said that when she became friends with the Mane 6, too. So now they're trying it with other non-mane ponies and that's still the argument? Do you just want her to be friends with unpopular ponies?

5930427
Yes. She could be friends with Trouble Shoes and Tender Taps. Also Trenderhoof.

5930428
So you want to see those ponies more?

5930430
No, I want to see all of them less. I want Starlight to show up for two minutes once a season and give a laundry list of all the unpopular ponies she's good friends with and then go away again.

5930432
I'm not sure about that. Starlight represents the writers' way to introduce a rogue element back into the main cast. Someone who will legitimately fsck things up and have it be in character. Remember when everyone lost their collective shit about Pinkie making Fluttershy cry? Well, now we have a character who could make Flutters cry and have everyone be okay with it. The writers are good at writing, for lack of a better word, low-level friendship adventures, but the Mane 6 are now leveled up past these basic challenges. It'd be like sending epic-level characters on The Sunken Citadel. When this happens, you get episodes like "Fluttershy Leans In" where absolutely nothing happens.

5930436
Why don't they just introduce tougher friendship challenges for the Mane 6?

5930437
Oh, great, like how hard it is to be friends when someone pushes you away when deeply grieving after the death of a child?

5930438
Welllll... I mean, I don't hate Flurry Heart that much.

5930439
See, that's just it! Six seasons in, they have mined out most kid-friendly friendship problems! So, they're starting over.

5930440
With a super-cool super badass unicorn who can out-duel Twilight friggin' Sparkle and who instantly becomes good friends with everyone in Ponyville over the course of a single song montage? No way.

5930444
You are just determined to hate her. Hater.

5930446
Hasdrone.

5930446,
5930447
Moderator here. Keep it civil, both of you.

5930447
So what is your success condition, then?

5930450
I want her to friggin' work for her redemption, damnit!

5930451
But offscreen, apparently. Because you want her not to appear in any episodes but you still want her to go through conflicts where she works through her redemption. That's what I'm hearing from you.

5930452
I want it to be artfully suggest that she's humbled. I want actual humility, not just what DWK called "Regrets Tourette's" where in place of actual humility she just spouts off a line about how horrible she was and then proceeds to like a bitch who's learned nothing. I want her to organically feel like a member of the main cast not by repeated inclusion but by actual synergy.

5930454
Tall order, Kemosabe.

5930455
THEY FSCKING MANAGED IT WITH SUNSET SHIMMER.

5930456
Yeah, and then when they need someone to make some sort of titanic friendship fsckup for a plotline, you'd be all like "waah waah waah my Sunnybun waifu would never do that."

5930457
They need to figure out some plots that don't require titanic friendship fsckups.

5930458
The show is literally about solving friendship problems. Someone needs to create friendship problems.

5930459
I want the friendship problems to arise organically out of a legitimate understanding of the characters and how they clash, not be introduced by a huge Mary Sue douchenozzle.

5930460
I'm just not sure we'll ever be able to come to an agreement on this issue, Sky.

...

I agree with Skywriter.

5930559
Me too.

I agree with myself.

[Edit: Just pretend as you're reading the rest of this thread that I have this usericon…]

5931146
… wait, what the hell is this?

Why aren't you agreeing with me?

5931150
Because you haven't said anything on the issue!

5931152
Exactly! Isn't silence the perfect response?

5931154
Well, I didn't seem to think so, and it's hard to argue with that.

5931155
It's very easy to argue with that. That's what I was doing while I was being silent over in the corner!

5931156
Oh, is that what that was? I thought you were just angry at me being Skywriter now.

5931158
I CAN SILENTLY FUME AT MULTIPLE THINGS AT ONCE, YOU KNOW.

You seriously need to figure out some identities that don't require titanic friendship fsckups.

5931162
The show is literally about solving friendship problems. Someone needs to create friendship problems.

5931163
I want our friendship problems to arise organically out of legitimate affectionate self-parody, not be introduced by a sockpuppet douchenozzle who might be confused for someone he's not.

5931167
The same way that Starlight Glimmer is obviously trying way too hard to be Sunset Shimmer?

Face it, this is just a microcosm of the My Little Pony of the future. Accept change.

5931176
"Accept change"? That's what your mother said when she tried to pay me for groceries last night.

Starlight's character arc has nothing to do with Sunset's! She was originally driven by an ideology of equality which was an ill-considered response to childhood trauma, and then switched to personal, cold-blooded revenge. Sunset Shimmer was out for raw power, and maybe the ability to still eat bacon after returning to her original equine form.

5931193
LOL, grocery clerk? Really? What kind of loser lets a job get in the way of their 24/7 pony obsession?

It's not about what their character arcs are, it's about how they respectively approach them. Sunset's redemption is hard. She has to look every day in the faces of the students whose lives she manipulated and ruined. She has to face their scorn and win their forgiveness. By contrast, Starlight Glimmer is STILL out mind-controlling ponies on nearly a daily basis, and they just shrug it off like it's nothing.

That's not how redemption works. That's not how apologies work. They have to be backed up by a commitment to change.

5931204
And yet Princess Luna, who issues one apology ever and literally becomes co-ruler of the nation, is best princess?

5931205
… uh …

I'm Skywriter now, remember? You're the Luna lover. I think you took my line.

5931207
Sh!t. Sorry. Switch places?

5931210
Works for me.

And yet Princess Luna, who issues one apology ever and literally becomes co-ruler of the nation, is best princess?

5931211
YOU TAKE THAT BACK OR I WILL CANTERLOCKS YOU INTO NEXT WEEK.

Besides, your mockery is factually wrong. Luna's life is defined by her regrets. She very nearly accidentally destroyed Equestria because she was beating herself up too much over her mistakes. Or are we forgetting the Tantabus already?

It's like I said a few posts back: It's about the effort that goes into the turnaround. Luna put effort into her redemption. Discord put effort into his redemption. Sunset put effort into her redemption. Those have been solid character arcs. Contrarily, we have Glimglam, who ruined everything forever.

5931221
If it's about effort, though, Glimglam has them all beat. She's the only one (besides possibly Discord) who still struggles with immediate urges to do the wrong thing. Her first impulse in solving problems is to turn to mind-control magic. She's relearning all that in real time. The others all saw the light and merely have to deal with their past mistakes dogging them.

Heck, Sunset even sang a song about exactly that:

But in Starlight Glimmer we have something unusual. A villain struggling with turning around her life in real time.

5931229
I call BS. Glimglam has literally graduated from Twilight Sparkle's Friendship Academy. She got a medal for saving Equestria. When the chips are down, she's all friendship, all the time.

That the show tries to pretend otherwise is part of the problem.

5930462
I'm just not sure we'll ever be able to come to an agreement on this issue, Sky.