So, I've been getting into the comics lately and I've come across one of the dumbest arcs, even dumber than the thing with Aspen. Issues #61 and #62 are really, really, really dumb. Not only does it try to tell the reader that the griffons owned swaths of land in Equestria, something that has never, ever, ever been mentioned in any other media, it also wants the reader to accept griffon lords. Griffon lords? Who the hell are they? Wasn't the entire point of the Lost Treasure of Griffonstone that the city had fallen into greedful anarchy and poverty. That the griffon nation had become a failed state and had no government?

And even if Equestria never paid for the lands, who exactly would they pay? Grandpa Gruf? Some old coot who threatens nations with an non-existent army? The entire premise of Equestria losing land to another country is fine on its own, but actually use a country that exists.

Please don't take this as complaints about fan fictions. I have no problems with fantic writers diverging from canon to make griffonstone different. I'm just annoyed the show keeps contradicting itself.

6627212
The comics are b-canon at best and the show has overridden them more than once, the most prominent being how the sirens were banished. Griffonstone collapsed after a giant goat/cyclopse stole their magical idol and never recovered.

6627193
Griffonstone can't possibly in total anarchy, since people aren't openly looting and mugging each other in the streets. The buildings might look like shit and poorly maintained, but no one is Gabby is proof that there's still basic services being provided like mail delivery. The state of Griffonstone reminds me of the infrastructure of present-day Russia and some former Soviet republics, but it's not riled in chaos like Venezuela. There would logically have to be some set of leaders to make the situation workable. Although it's mentioned by one one of the diplomats themselves in issue #61, they are "Not sure what the political situation in Griffonstone is right now."

It's true they may not have their king anymore, but nations don't just explode when the crown isn't on someone's head for a certain amount of time. It seems now that the job of running Griffonstone is divided up amongst a group of "lords," each one having far more wealth, culture and education than the average civilian griffon. This seems to make Griffonstone aristocracy (or a kleptocracy, concerning Lord Goldstone). The fact that the situation is unclear isn't the fault of writing, that just describes the situation across much of our world, unfortunately. Sometimes Real Politik is people not having a clue.

When Grandpa Gruff started to threaten war, I took it to just mean he's a stubborn old coot, and refused to act cowed by the threats from the other nations

6627213

The comics are b-canon at best and the show has overridden them more than once, the most prominent being how the sirens were banished. Griffonstone collapsed after a giant goat/cyclopse stole their magical idol and never recovered.

And there's your solution to this problem. In terms of continuity, the comics and books take secondary place to Friendship is Magic and Equestria Girls; if the two contradict each other, the animated canon's version of things is the canonical one. This usually takes the form of episodes or movies overriding older comic arcs or stories, but in this case the premise was incompatible with canon from the outset -- it's fairly clear from the show that Griffonstone has neither formal government nor much in the way of prosperity, so there's no room in the show's canon to fit in a council of wealthy lords like the one presented in the comic. The likeliest resolution here is simply that this arc was outside of established continuity from the outset.

In regards to Griffonstone's status, I think the best paragon in real life is the idea of a failed state. It's fairly clear that Griffonstone does not have a formal government or authority; the show is not ambiguous in making it clear who's in charge in any given society. All other nations are presented as having clear and well-established governments and heads of state from the moment they're introduced – often, their ruler is the first member of that society met – but the griffons have nothing of the sort. There is no griffon equivalent to Princesses Luna and Celestia, Dragon Lords Torch and Ember, Prince Rutherford, Rain Shine, Chief Thunderhooves, Queen Novo, or King Thorax and Queen Chrysalis; this is something especially glaring in their choice of delegate in "School Raze".

The griffons have no leader, and no sign of government is present beyond a one-person postal system – the only other governmental or public institutions seen, the monarchy and the library system, are both utterly abandoned. Going by Gallus' flashback in "The Hearth's Warming Club", there doesn't appear to be any system in place for looking after orphans either. Their infrastructure is in ruins to the point that their city is filled with rubble and debris and most buildings are in severe disrepair or outright collapsed. Even their day-to-day society is in such poor shape that basic social interactions and solidarity have been largely abandoned. To me, that speaks of a society that fell badly some time back and never managed to rebuild itself at levels greater than those of neighborhoods and family units.

So to get back to the original point, I don't think that any idea based around Griffonstone having formal rulership was ever compatible with its depiction in the show.

6627559
It just boggles my mind why they would use the griffons for that arc. They have at least like six other nations and they pick the one that doesn't actually exist. It just seems to me like the writers realizing the show shot itself in the foot when it comes to the griffons.

6627511
No, is complete anarchy, with the griffons having barely restrained contempt for each other. Gabby's job doesn't meant anything. Hell, she's probably being paid of the Equestrian mail service, as I don't see the griffons caring enough to pay for the service.

6627559
To be fair we only seen the capital of the Griffon kingdom. It could be that only the capital is like that as the kingdom split like China during its century of humiliation, the Griffon lords could be former fiefdoms of the Griffon kingdom. Griffonstone the city could be explained as being at a disadvantage as its economy was geared to administering the economy of the kingdom yet with no crown no reason has no reason to exist with the political climate that existed when Pinkie and Rainbow Dash went there.
The comic saying Griffonstone is overseen by the council might be explain by the lords deciding to come together after the threat of the Storm King, though the comic goes through a lot of effort explaining the council of lords without mentioning when they came about.

6627677
Or maybe Griffonstone is just a long forgotten dump and most Gryphons moved to Equestria centuries ago.

in The Crystal Empire - Part 1, two griffon statues appear outside the entrance to the Crystal Empire library. The same statues appear in Games Ponies Play.

In Rainbow Falls, Giselle and two other griffons appear as a qualifier team for the Equestria Games' aerial relay event. After the Mane Six are temporarily Breezies via Twilight Sparkle's magic in It Ain't Easy Being Breezies, Rainbow Dash says to Twilight, "I've always kinda wondered what it would be like to be a griffon." Griffons appear in Trade Ya! Giselle and her two teammates, as well as Gilda, Gustave le Grand, and four more griffons, appear in the episode Equestria Games.

6627677
Because it was stated in The Lost Treasure of Griffonstone that the only reason the griffons even formed a kingdom was because of the magic of the idol and once that was gone Griffonstone completely and utterly collapsed.

6627979
Right and when large kingdoms collapse they fracture with their vassals becoming new kingdoms in their own right.

6628026
Except the only reason the griffons united was because of the magic of the idol. No idol, no griffon government of any kind. They needed magic to even form a country.

6628045
I don't remember the episode saying that the idol was magical. It just gave the griffons in Griffonstone pride which they lost after losing the idol.

6628045
That doesn't necessarily follow, the story goes they were united meaning before the idol there was numerous Griffon settlements which got unified into one kingdom (which would make the lords of these settlements the vassals of the Griffon king). With the crown gone the vassals most likely would simply become independent since they had governments prior to the idol (just not a kingdom).

6627193
I'm not sure the comics are considered canon, but they're more canon than EqG, thank goodness.

6628150
No they aren't. EQG is FAR more canon than anything the comics have put out

6628166
*wipes your face with hand* Shhhh. No it isn't. We don't speak of EqG apart from saying it's not canon.

I do understand your qualms with the griffins. I did find that odd. Could be griffin families that formed a council after a while? We're not shown Griffinstone much, honestly.

6628045
It's true that Grandpa Gruff said that the idol

united our kind like we've never been united before or since

but that could be read in a few different ways - it certainly doesn't preclude pre-Grover governments.

And what happened after it was lost is even less clear - all we know is that the griffons lost their "pride", Griffonstone is a tip with no royals or library, and even well-read outsiders don't really know about this despite a rail line to Equestria.

Although the show won't show it, it almost makes more sense if most of Grover's kingdom - don't try and tell me that one city was it - is still keeping up appearances of proper nationhood.

Maybe Griffinstone is the griffin equivalent of Detroit and is falling apart whilst other griffin cities are in much better quality?

6627193

So, I've been getting into the comics lately

I think I've uncovered the root of your problem.

6628182
You may not like EQG for your personal reasons, but it is widely regarded as a legit MLP FiM spin-off, localized into many languages. Studio DHX doesn't try to hide that fact from your ilk anymore; many EQG episodes now feature ponies and Equestria.

6628182
Equestria Girls is optional canon - it can be included or not without affecting the main show. The comics, on the other hand, are frequently contradicted by the show. So I'm not sure where you get "more canon" from.