Patreon Blog Takeover: Regarding The Accessibility Of Elements (Nlinzer) · 3:04pm Apr 29th, 2022
Remember, if you back me on Patreon, you too can get a chance to make me answer questions in blog form! Such as:
Element of Magic, can it be used by a unicorn with Coordinators magic level? A non Unicorn? What is it?
...although this is a case of pushing towards both the low and high end of the scale. Because talking about what the Elements truly are would go into deep spoilers. Things which haven't come out in the 'verse yet, and may not appear for quite some time. So when it comes to the whole of that query, I would theoretically have the option to just do something like this:
Yes.
Yes.
I can't tell you right now.
But that's not exactly providing value for the pledge level, is it?
I genuinely can't discuss the third part of that set: it's just too early. But when it comes to the Elements themselves -- not what they are, but some part of how they function -- let's go into a little more detail.
Warning: some of the following consists of things which not only haven't appeared in the stories yet, but might never truly have the chance to do so. (How often are the characters going to discuss the matter or investigate this deeply?) As such, we're not discussing spoilers so much as scant evidence and theory.
"...Rarity -- no, let me talk, Fleur -- Rarity said something once." The pegasus spread her wings, flew over a tree which had been felled by the parade of monsters: Fleur had to levitate herself. "...she said -- she felt like the Elements represented things we were -- to everypony else." She took a slow breath. "But not to ourselves."
"I don't understand --"
Fluttershy landed, resumed her trot as she stared down at the road. "-- Applejack... can lie to herself, very easily. Twilight had so much trouble finding the magic in a normal life, and that's part of what put her here. There's too many times when Rarity thinks of herself last. I hate it when Pinkie's smile is an echo, when she feels like she can only be happy if everypony else is. And Rainbow... gets pulled in different directions. Dreaming of being a Wonderbolt, wanting to stay with us. She has to pick a course, and... it's hard to stay loyal to so many different things." The yellow head slowly, sadly shook. "And I'm cruelest to myself. Always. The Elements fill gaps in our lives, but... not the gaps within us. That's what our friends are for. I'm cruelest to myself, Fleur... and maybe that's why I'm Kindness."
Anchor Foal, Chapter 48.
How do you measure virtue?
The palace believes that a Bearer's virtue needs to be one of the dominant facets in their personality: something which would normally become apparent within a day or so after a normal meeting. It may even be the strongest aspect of that pony's psyche -- but it doesn't have to be. At the minimum, a Bearer has to demonstrate their virtue under stress, during unfavorable conditions, and occasional duress. But it's not going to comprise the whole of them.
And no virtue is full-time.
There are ponies who believe that any behavior which runs counter to an Element's affinity should immediately disqualify the Bearer from possessing it, permanently breaking the attunement: this is generally expressed by those who feel that they would make for suitable replacement candidates. However, the Elements allow for some flexibility -- and whatever definition of the virtue they're working is entirely their own. Make Loyalty so narrow that showing up late for an appointment is clearly a violation of trust -- well, that's one of the more frequent arguments for deposing Rainbow, generally expressed by those who are getting just a little sick of waiting for their special weather booking. Some of the stupider specimens claim that if Twilight walks across a room rather than teleporting, it means Magic has just gone up for grabs: such idiots tend to start foaming at the mouth whenever they catch the librarian picking up anything with hers. And the ponies who feel that the Elements have given their carriers extra magic just don't understand how Applejack could ever answer a question with "Ah don't know." Shouldn't Honesty mean knowing the truth about every situation?
(Do the Elements grant magical gifts to their Bearers? It's one of the more common beliefs -- but the current answer is 'Nothing that anypony's been able to identify.' If there are effects, they're exceptionally subtle -- and likely would require the jewelry to be worn while the magic was utilized.)
But every personality has multiple facets. And there's a problem with essentially trying to live as your Element: the virtues, taken to their logical extremes, are self-destructive. Compulsively telling the truth about everything, without the ability to refuse an answer -- it's not a good way to live. Generosity's far end of the curve might leave a pony donating her own organs -- including the ones she still needs. Kindness could turn into never refusing any favor, while Loyalty to every possible devotion can tear a psyche apart. Magic has any number of horrible ends available, and Laughter's carrier needs to take all of them seriously.
So the virtue is going to be a dominant aspect of the Bearer's personality -- but it can't be the whole of it. Not for long. And that leads directly into another question: how is that virtue expressing itself? Does the Honesty bearer try to tell the truth whenever possible -- or is she a scientist, searching for the fundamental truths of the world? What about Generosity? That could mean frequent donations to charity. It's also giving your time. Yourself. 'Nosing over some very loud opinions, for free' might feel like a possibility to anypony who's annoyed Rarity...
It's generally accepted that any potential Bearer must regularly display behavior which matches their Element's affinity. ('Fake it until you make it' is not regarded as a real possibility.) But that virtue could potentially express itself in a number of ways. Two separate Laughter carriers might have very different opinions on what humor is, and the purposes for which it should be used.
And that brings us to Magic.
To date, the only known carriers of Magic have been unicorns with notably high field strength. However, courtesy of the history gap created by the Discordian Era, that count is currently placed at 'two'. And the possibilities are broader than that.
The core of it is this: all of the pony races possess magic. And if magic is a dominant facet in a pony's life -- then it's at least possible that they could claim the Element. This applies to earth ponies and pegasi. It may theoretically be possible for a crystal to claim that Element: it's just something which hasn't received a test.
And one of the biggest questions -- something almost too loud to hear, too blatant to conceive, to the point where only a few might have considered it at all -- is 'what about the other species?' Because it's certainly possible to create an enchanted item in a way which allows it to be used by non-ponies. Some of Menajeria's other sapients are capable of weaving their own magic into the inanimate, and ponies can utilize a number of those constructs. Have the Elements been created in such a way that only a pony can tap the core of them, or is it possible for any sapient with a powerful matching personal virtue to become a Bearer?
Let's make it worse. Nopony's entirely sure where the Elements came from. And we've already said that other species can build enchanted items. So what if there's a set of device-equivalents out there which match the griffon virtues? And if we take a pony who happens to match one of them strongly, is it possible for them to trigger something created for the original Protocerans? Does every sapient species have something waiting to be found? Are some of those pieces known to their nations, and locked away for safekeeping? Are they in active use, and Equestria just doesn't know about it? Or is it really just the ponies, and possibly not even all of them?
Nopony is sure whether a different sapient can claim and activate an Element. The sisters personally feel that Spike was unable to try for Loyalty during Rainbow's inversion for a single reason: the original Bearer was still alive. To the best of their knowledge, an attunement normally continues until the Bearer dies -- under normal circumstances. A pony whose behavior is directly, immediately, and strongly counter to their virtue may have trouble activating their Element. Going against the virtue for a long time can have similar effects. And it may be possible to break the connection entirely -- but if some part of the sextet remains intact, the Element has not been shown to seek a new Bearer.
(Maybe that could happen. But it hasn't yet.)
So... back to Magic. An earth pony whose tools make up a dominant facet of their life could potentially take it up. Rainbow, forever seeking ways to refine the existing techniques while hoping to come up with something entirely new, is as much a researcher as Twilight. And speaking of researchers? Sunburst has a weak field. He's not capable of casting very many workings. But his sheer knowledge of what's possible, combined with his very visible talent in compiling such information and advancing the cause -- that's another way for Magic to express itself. And what about the hybrids? The Continuum's version of Green Grass is an earth pony whose understanding of unicorn magic is so thorough, he can teach it -- without being able to cast. Is it possible that he might qualify? What about Ratchette, for whom the magic is quite literally in her blood?
If magic is a major part of a pony's existence, then that pony could potentially claim the Element. Period. Personal power levels aren't a factor. So yes, it is entirely possible for somepony who matched Coordinator's low field strength to bear that Element. You would just never see it happen with that personality, because that was a pony who saw no value in the virtue. Magic, expressed as a virtue, is partially about understanding the world, along with being able to see the wonder inherent within existence. There's more than a few sapients possessing raw strength aplenty -- with absolutely no ability to see their power as being good for anything other than strength.
If a griffon was capable of claiming Magic, it wouldn't necessarily be someone whose domination projection was strongest. You'd need a griffon who understood the chain, recognized why it existed, and wanted to make it truly work -- in the positive aspects, because we are still looking at a virtue. There has to be a beneficial component. Utter loyalty to the world's greatest despot, combined with total devotion towards killing anyone who disagrees with her -- that might put you on the path to acquiring a necklace, but murdering the current Bearer isn't going to provide you with a working specimen.
There's another factor: the Elements appear to be at least semi-independent. Doctor Gentle found their location -- but not the jewelry. His speculation is that they didn't want to be claimed -- yet. Something within them is making the decision as to who they accept. So what's their full list of criteria? How do they judge? Are they telepathic? Celestia has suggested that she and Luna spoke with something -- and that the details were difficult to recall. So what would make them speak? Can they peer into souls? Are they fully sapient, or only capable of limited judgment within a very narrow range? What does an Element have to perceive within someone before it decides to claim a Bearer?
And note the phrasing on that last. Who, exactly, is claiming whom?
But in the short form:
Yes.
Yes.
I can't tell you right now.
And for now, that'll have to be enough.
Again: if you want to make me blog about a topic of your choice, it's available as a Patreon perk. (Act quickly, because inflation is a nightmare and the price may be going up.) But there are always going to be things I can't answer.
And sometimes, the answers I can give just lead to more questions.
A lot of this would border on dramatic irony if talking about the canon world. When parts of the show and comics that postdate Triptych are taken into consideration, the questions this raises end up with hilarious answers that quite probably contradict what will end up happening in your own stories. Hello Sugar Belle, I'm pretty sure your soul is too mutilated to actually feel love and also he's gay
No kidding.
Fascinating stuff throughout. And there's an unspoken question in all of this: The Elements correspond to pony virtues, yes, but which came first? Given how the Discordian Era rendered the historical record illegible past a certain point, I could definitely see some confusion on cause and effect there. I can't imagine some of these traits were seen as virtuous in the average barricade point. Loyalty and Honesty, certainly, but Generosity? Laughter? Even Magic seems suspect; what kind of person sees the beauty in a world gone mad? Indeed, what does that say about Star Swirl?
And, of course, there's the question of what the things even are, and how they came about. Rocks don't generally start thinking on their own. (Well, truespeech says otherwise, but I imagine most rocks don't concern themselves with the ethics of organic life, especially not judging whether any given meatbag is worthy of their power.) I imagine when you can and do reveal more about the local Elements, you'll raise even more questions than you answer.
I look forward to it.
So it makes me wonder who will be the next to use magic. Sunset or Starlight? Who will be he first non pony to wield an element? I can’t wait for those reveals.
i seem to remember a fan-story where a creature who had no magic BUT was exceptionally SMART was able to use the element of magic...
and at one point he says the old word "magi" originally meant "scholar".
Your statement that the current bearer has to die before the Elements will choose a new bearer isn't absolute. After all, both Celestia and Luna are still alive.
Or are they?
Steven Brust's novels have at least 1 lich character.
5654245
Celestia has said her crown vanished at some point, and that it turned back into a necklace before disappearing. She considers that to indicate her attunement having broken.
5654245
They may have broken their own connections to them during the Nightmare Moon incident.
5654236 Squinting at the EoH problem a bit. Lemmie wave hands and try one theory with an analogy. Sunlight is warm and friendly. Focused sunlight can burn holes in steel. The various Base Metaphysical Elements of Harmony exist in everypony, but tend to focus around certain individuals with a resonance to their 'wavelength' to steal an inaccurate idea from light. To focus that power even more takes a physical manifestation, whether created by some unknown technological force at some time in history (See Sun, Moon) or if they just crystalize out of the cosmic ether as a result of the flow of the individual Elements, who knows. The six Elements then not only have a harmonizing effect across the world to bring their each individual power to a point, but combined with all six they resonate in an even greater power: Friendship Lasers.
Thus Spike could not use the Element of Loyalty because the focus of that particular element still flowed through Rainbow Dash (much like you can't use a magnifying glass to start a fire at night).
5654232 Nothing says Big Mac can't be bi, or even act as a very good friend (because gay people are perfectly able to have really good friends of the opposite sex.) Remember, his cutie mark is an apple cut in half. Perhaps it reflects his inner issues, and it is his destiny to bring healing to a damaged mare in the same way he's healing. Who knows. Too many people presume guy/gal relationships always have to be about... um... making little apples.
5654252
Just pointing out that that's a pretty clear point of divergence from canon on both ends of the relationship. For the reasons you've stated, moreso on Sugar Belle's side because Estee put more thought into what cutie marks actually are than the show ever did (the idea that they meant anything at all is something Faust introduced to the series)
5654247
Exactly. Highly unusual but not death alone. Not for either.
5654249
Yes, that seems to be Estee's take on the matter.
I would point out that in Return Of Harmony, Discord pretty much ruined 5 of the 6 Bearers and (temporarily) wrecked their friendship but they still were the Bearers.
Perhaps it takes the death of 1 Bearer to cause the Elements to reset?
IMO, it's an open question:
"What did Celestia know and when did she know it?"
After all, it's a little odd that the 1000 year anniversary was in Ponyville. It's even odder that the only 5 ponies she met "just happened" to fit the needs for the Bearers.
this kind of worldbuilding detail is what makes fanfiction as a whole (and yours specifically) enjoyable and worth reading.
Did you just spoil that Sunburst exists in the Continuum?
Please don't be tragic, please don't be tragic...
Oh right Starlight is a hundred times more evil than in canon.
Please don't be super tragic, please don't be super tragic...
5654260
Much like it's a little odd that a lodestone "just happens" to scoot across a surface and attach solidly to an iron bar.
5654271
Starlight's anti cutie mark bias implies the existence of Sunburst.
5654271
Starlight's anti cutie mark bias implies the existence of Sunburst.
So, not a BIG spoiler.
5654282
The ponies who teased Fluttershy in Flight Camp led to the existence of the Bearers. It could be argued that it was by far the most important thing they would ever do in their entire life.
Upon meeting them in the Junior Flyers Competition, my comment to them would have been "You've fulfilled your life's purpose. Please die now."
I could see this Sunburst being even more central to Starlight's madness in this verse. After all, his cutie mark caused him to "be sent away." And depending how deeply/quickly Starlight sunk into madness afterwards, she should've been smart enough to at least write him, if not visit in person. So if she kept/caught up with him, she'd see it as his cutie mark "forcing him into a life he didn't want, and wasn't strong enough for."
Wait...
That sounds a lot like Trixie, now that I put it that way. Wonder if that's intentional on Estee's part, or merely coincidental.
5654271
DELWMG is off on a continuity branch with Anchor Foal, but it does mention Sunburst quite early on. He's a fainting-prone agoraphobe who has enough magical research skill that he is known to the Princesses.
"To the best of their knowledge, an attunement normally continues until the Bearer dies -- under normal circumstances."
"And it may be possible to break the connection entirely -- but if some part of the sextet remains intact, the Element has not been shown to seek a new Bearer.
(Maybe that could happen. But it hasn't yet.)"
...Hm. So... that has some implications for how exactly Celestia and Luna stopped being Bearers themselves.
...Though a lot deals with the exact interpretation of the text here, and unfortunately I'm rather tired and rushed at the moment.
(I am finally getting to my FIMFiction blog backlog... but since blog posts can't be marked unread, that means going through in a single session, unless I want to start copying and pasting URLs into external notes. Hopefully soon I'll be able to get back to my massive backlog of story chapters, including some of yours I'm quite eager to read.
(Which isn't to say, to be clear, that this blog post isn't interesting. I've just got a lot of other blog posts to get through, still, and I was hoping to be in bed hours ago already.))