An Open Message To The "It's Only A Cartoon" People · 1:33am Oct 15th, 2021
"It's only a cartoon, don't take it so seriously!"
It's a comment you often hear, whenever anyone points out that the writers of a series such as My Little Pony have done a terrible job. That they have voided previous canon, or turned a previously heartfelt series into a wacky 40's era Looney Tunes romp, that, ultimately, they have broken the tone and world of the story universe. "It's only a cartoon".
The people saying such things are almost exclusively American, and they are ignorant, something which almost doesn't need to be stated. In other nations, animation is seen as an artform, no different than live action film in essence, which can be put to any use: serious, silly, dramatic, meaningful, adult, childish, whimsical or dark and dire. Animation is understood to simply be another form of storytelling.
But, in America, and pretty much only America, animation has been denigrated only as being 'cartoons'. Things for very young children, to entertain their empty, dim minds. Something that can only be trivial, meaningless, and devoid of logic. Not like 'legitimate' live-action film. Animation is for kiddies. No adult should be watching it, and if they do, it must be a 'guilty pleasure' only to be enjoyed 'ironically'.
America is a very young nation, only a two hundred years old (and change). Americans think animation is a recent thing. Many think they invented it.
Let's go back 15,000 years, to Chauvet Cave in France.
Fifteen thousand years ago, humans went deep, deep into that cave, and they drew on the walls by torchlight. Flickering, strobing torchlight. And they were as clever as humans today. They were no different than we.
And, they worked very hard making animation. You heard me. They did animation.
Most cave art is illuminated by static spot lights for tourists, because clearly cave men were stupid, so wow, pictures! But some scientists began seriously thinking about those paintings on the walls. They noticed the multiple legs and necks and heads, earlier dismissed as clumsy cave men being clumsy and stupid, because: cave men. Removing their arrogance, they considered the effect of the strobe effect of a torch. And then they tried an actual torch. And they discovered that the paintings in the ancient caves were animations. 15,000 years ago, animated movies were a sacred and exciting experience. Marvelous enough to go deep into scary and dangerous caves just to create, and to view.
Behold: animation has always existed!
Now, I could go on for hours about the politically revolutionary animation of Jiří Trnka, who risked his life to oppose the Czechoslovak communist state with his 'cartoons'. I could rant about the serious worldbuilding and intention behind even commercial animations such as Stephen Universe and The Last Airbender. I could argue for hours about how anime for adults is a thing that exists. Or how the rest of the world sees animation. I have argued at length that every animation is capable of choosing to have a solid story universe, impactful and meaningful writing, and consistency of tone no different than that expected of a live action show.
"It's only a cartoon."
Fuck you. 15,000 years ago, it was religion. It was the very gods and spirits. It was magic incarnate, animals and gods impossibly moving on the walls of a sacred cave. It was worth risking lives to make. It was more important than your ignorant Anerican opinions will ever be, and more than this, it will outlast your pathetic life.
15,000 years from now, when your hollow complaint that 'It's only a cartoon' is long forgotten, as you are long forgotten, those running bison and charging beasts will still be there, waiting for a strobing light to bring them back to mystical, impossible life. Humanity itself will likely be extinct, but those animations - and others yet undiscovered - will outlast your narrow opinion.
There is no such thing as 'only a cartoon'.
I am an American, and even I find it disgusting when people say "It's just a cartoon". I really don't understand why people think that when they see great animated shows like Avatar, MLP, and others.
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It's more fun to take it seriously. Within reason. If someone's writing death threats to the staff, they've gone too far in the other direction. But still, quality fiction cares little about intended target audience.
I agree wholeheartedly with the overall sentiment of this letter, but I can't help but be discontented with the argument's framing as a smear of those who deign to find enjoyment in Friendship is Magic's twilight years. Correct me if my conclusion is misguided, but the primary takeaway I obtain from the resulting mixture of those two messages is "You're allowed to take cartoons seriously unless they're cartoons I don't like."
Again, I will gladly let myself be corrected by you, but in my current state of mind, the "fuck you" seems a mite too overarching.
5595887
Agreed on all counts.
As an American: I felt that, I resemble that remark, and I agree wholeheartedly.
Life is too short and too full of wonder for us to elevate any form(s) of art at the expense of (an) other(s), or put any form of art down for any reason (there are no good reasons to denigrate any medium, visual or otherwise).
But sadly putting something else down to feel better about yourself, or something you want to elevate (often because it is a part of your identity), is also a very American form and fashion of ignorance.
Interesting video you posted.
Anyway, regardless of what format it is or who it's aimed at, good media shouldn't have to go to shit.
I don't often hear "it's only a cartoon", but whoever they're responding to who "points [that] out" in the first place would be so far off-base it would take the light from off-base ten million years to reach them.
5595891
I enjoyed all the seasons of MLP. I don't have a problem with the final episode - heck, I thought it was fine. I have no issue with people enjoying the entire series. I did.
But, when a particular episode is obviously a repurposed script for another show entirely, or when the writer completely forgets everything established prior in the series and nobody bothers to correct such errors, or when an episode completely destroys the established personality of a given main character - I think it is legitimate to complain that this is so... and that it matters. That it means something. That there is something valuable about a fictional world being self-consistent and solid and rational. That telling stories well is something that should be done whether or not a series is live action or animated.
I am weary of the argument that if something is animated, rather than live-action, it has no value, no worth, and nothing about it matters. Just because it is animated.
I am sorry if this somehow was not made clear to you by my screed. I hope this makes my position more clear.
Ah, I believe I now understand. I take it you've seen the new g5 movie? If not, or if I just so happen to be way off, stop reading please.
There are... so many laughable, and conflicting inconsistencies and controversies happening between g4 and g5 that it at first disgusted me while I watched, but it's not like those plotholes are being ignored by the community. Where did all the other creatures go? Why did Twilight fail as the Princess of Friendship? There's plenty more things that I could gripe about.
I just haven't really had the opportunity to chat about how the writers seemingly completely forgot a whole lot except what's cute and laughable, and what they think should be in a kids movie.
Oh, I don't know if I knew that about those cave paintings; neat. Thanks!
"I have argued at length that every animation is capable of choosing to have a solid story universe, impactful and meaningful writing, and consistency of tone no different than that expected of a live action show."
And, uh, going the other way, it's not exactly as if pointing a camera at live actors instead of animation cels somehow magically ensures that those actors will be giving a good performance of a good script.
I mean, really, if we were to assume that one medium was automatically more "mature" than the other, wouldn't it make more sense, if still not enough to make sense, to assume that animation was the highbrow one? After all, making something that works as an animation at all takes a certain baseline amount of skill and effort, while, particularly today, more or less anyone could just grab a camera and point it at some live people.
I'm also remembering a DVD commentary I was watching years ago, and one of the creators commented on how he got asked what it was like to work in the "animation genre". He had some words to say about the assumption that animation was a genre, and I suspect that perhaps he had some more words to not say in polite company if he got asked that sort of thing frequently.
5595884
because those people's only form of entertainment is vegging out to a football game while being drunk off their ass.
I usually get the attitude of "its just a cartoon and must be for kids" in regards to anime. Its happening a lot less but it still happens
5595935
One of my issues with G4 MLP is that they started to use certain types of plots over and over again.
I wish I could say it was only America, but it happens in the UK too. And every time I hear it a little piece of me dies. Thank you for making this.
5595973
Aw, ok.
5595935
Which episode(s) jumped out to you as being meant for another series? No trouble identifying general-purpose canon-breakage, of course.
The schlubs have their bread and circuses... and opinions, and think them the bedrock of human culture. But if it weren't for the few unique types out on the pointy end of the bell curve, humanity would still be turning over flat stones to find their dinner and entertainment.
Some writers get jobs because they're good writers, but a lot of them (particularly in "Hollywood") get jobs because of favors and relations. When they're objectively bad, when they are the entitled type who don't give a carp about what they're working on, they very often are shunted off into "kid vid" where they will do less damage... at least in the eyes of the producers.
We got very lucky that the (original) show runner and most of the writers had both the integrity and creativity to ignore the social stigma of the medium they were working in. But Faust only got the job in the first place because Hasbro didn't give a sheet about the content of the show as long as it sold injection-molded plastic. Otherwise, the job would have gone to someone with more prestige, less talent, and zero investment in the stories.
As for the G5 movie, I probably can't convey how lucky we got. When a show is a sudden, unexpected success, it usually gets swarmed with bespoke suit-wearing parasites, intent on sucking up success by proximity. Since such types can't refrain from pushing their uncreative and idiotic ideas,* the result is often an unintelligible mess. It certainly isn't perfect, but that MLP-ANG turned out as well-made and enjoyable as it did is a freakin' miracle. The fact that it was an animated property aimed at young girls probably helped in that regard.
The sword of genre prejudice cuts both ways, it seems.
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* Or the ideas of their girlfriend scribbled down in lipstick on a bar napkin. (This is not a hypothetical example.)
As always, even rant from Chatoyance gives to readers (including me) some new and previously unknown details about The World. Wow, you just pushed timeline of animation way, way back in time!
But guess today we have paradox, when quite time- and labour-intensive art form mass-produced and can be viewed by millions (in 20th century it was movie theater or TV, today it can be any computer/tv/mobile screen). So there is pressure to make it work via simpler impulses, and for widest possible audience. So a lot of work, but often (if we consider ALL artwork) with missing details. Making series over few years add some challenges to this.
Sadly being artist (or scientist) doesn't automatically mean above-average understanding of comllex, society-level phenomena :( So, I fear a lot of art (amateur and professionally/for money made) actually reflect (unintentionally) current quite broken worldview (if we sample randomly or even by popularity). Pressures on amateur artist and professional artist can be different, but sadly often move/push them in same generic direction. Thinking requires energy/time, and courage, both to face unknown/unpopular personally and telling it out. But sometimes this idea of being dare to question common narrative/practice can backfire! Of course this is all nice when bunch of ppl just discuss theorethically ethics ("is it ok to leave little stranger to die?" or truely kill all opposition, say) . But if they start to apply their radical unethics at mass scale... :{ you mentioned communists - and this is sad story for me because apparently both 'population' and leaders of whole supercountry (!) failed to realize importance of even experimentally living by non-capitalism. So, effort for actually trying to *be* different was dropped/replaced by empty facade {. whole world of thinking about superscaled socities of today was dropped. Communists failed to support commune! Commune itself failed to learn something important about themselves and forces acting in our world! Today I mostly read english-language thinking about energy and left /ecological/supportive movement, in russian I mostly see trash comments and barely dare to explore internet in my native/first language. Whole value of having conversation dropped for me into negative territory...
so, nothing exist in isolation and evidently this is hard stuff to chew on.
So I guess this is peak quality vs cheaper load of mass-produced/consumed art thing, partially. Humans operate by intuition, and because most cartoons they saw in _their child-to-adult_ times were a bit simple story-wise, they assume ALL cartoons should be like this?
I think book genre (?) about alternative history or other popular at times genres got some heat exactly because some ppl hear 'it was good' tried few examples and found them.. mismatched to their views, or (sadly) in general low quality (because everyone tried to rush to write about hot for the moment theme/in fashionable style). So those disappointed ppl voice their view without much self-reflection. This got copied by other ppl (we being social imitators). Now you have relatively loud wave of opinion not absolutely correct but posed as such. Sort of meme, in pre-internet sesnse?
Again, internet of today still unique because you (so far) can hear voices you previously were unable to hear. This poses a lot of unusual load on us (because our social circle suddently got expanded, often in uncomfortable ways.) If internet/amateur mass-use of radio will survive for 1000(s) years forward - hopefully someone will look into how humans adapted to *this*!
While I think anominous could have worded that post WAY better and not been a shitty asshole about it. I'm inclined to agree about the generalization of a people based on nothing more then a country. I'm curious and please don't think I'm trying to be snarky but what makes you think it's only Americans who feel it's "just a cartoon" and don't appreciate animation. Most people I've spoken with either don't seem to care either way or in fact agree with your statement that it's art as long as it's drawn well and/or it has a compelling story especially seeing as it's increasing in popularity here in the states.
5596042
"The Mysterious Mare-Do-Well", for one. There have been more than a few rumors that the script was originally intended for 'Darkwing Duck', but was rejected, then adapted to MLP because: profit. Reworking a script is not uncommon, but reworking an inappropriate script just because you are tired of sitting on it is hack writing.
And there are others. I wrote an entire novel here about the issue.
5595937
I watched the G5 movie, and very much to my surprise - I liked it. I enjoyed it. But I also instantly noted how very much it was a canon and continuity disaster when it came to invoking the existence of the previous generation as history within it.
So, I, going for another 'Marvel No-Prize' worked out a solution: the whole thing is an Optimalverse shard generated for an emigrated person who hated CelestAI, and wanted their own take on things. I pictured Izzy as the upload the shard was built for. That works for me. I even did an art about it and posted it on my homepage.
jenniverse.com/images/Optimalverse%20MLP%20G5%20SM.png
5596136
Three reasons.
One, is that nations like France, Japan, Czech Republic, Korea, Côte d’Ivoire, China, Spain and others all make animated movies created purely for adults and do not consider animation only for children at all. They seem, culturally, to view animation as merely a medium for expression, and do not purely link animation to the sale of toys.
The second reason is that America does culturally link animation with the sale of toys to children. This link is strong, forged by pure capitalism, and decades of cartoons-as-kiddy-fare. The change began as early as 1940, when adult animated content began to become censored purely to protect children. America is a puritanical nation with an overbearing religious fundamentalism which throughout its history has crushed mature/intelligent content - I do not mean 'sexual', just not childish - in favor of two goals: money and a willful escape into a falsely 'innocent', 'spiritually pure' infantalism. I cite more than cartoons for this: it was not until the late sixties that married adults in live action productions could be shown owning a single, shared bed. America is a nation where, until 1971, seeing a belly-button on television was considered shocking. Also too shocking to cope with was the sound of a toilet flushing, which was banned until also 1971 (apparently a big year for adulting!). In America, RIGHT NOW, 39% of adults actually deny evolution, and genuinely believe that a magical man wished all animals into existence. America is, frankly, on average, dumb as a bag of hammers.
The third reason is that, statistically, and to the best of my ability to check, every single message to me that I have endured, telling me to shut the hell up about writing quality on the specific grounds that 'It's only a cartoon, cartoons don't have to make sense, they're for kids!' came only from America. Not from any other nation. I have never, to my knowledge, had anyone from any other nation give me that line. Yet I have had that phrase, or a variant, used on my multiple dozens of time during my decade dealing with Pony.
I put these three things together, and I get one result: Americans are hella dumb, certainly, but they are also the only society I know that has a bee up its butt about cartoons, by definition, being exclusively for children too stupid to comprehend logic or causality. That's my calculation, because that is my experience.
And I am stuck defined as a fucking American myself, and still I say all of this.
I may legally be an American, but I do not consider myself to be 'American'. I just got born here, and I'm too old and impoverished to emigrate anywhere else. Alas.
5596198
Yea, the US has some really stupid censorship.
5596198
I have travelled all over the world for work and pleasure, and I have to say that Americans do not have a monopoly on stupidity. They may be in the top ten for willful ignorance, but again, no monopoly. What seems to be the world's view of the stand-out characteristic of Americans abroad is an attitude of belligerent (and loud) superiority, based on their culture.
Whenever I'm out of the US and someone asks if I'm an American, I always deny it. I tell them I'm a Californian. It's a great ice-breaker, and a subtle hint that I'm a much more mellow person than they might have been expecting, based on my accent.
5596232
I hear that: one look at 'Terf Island' alone convinces me that England is not a place I would want to be.
"It's just a cartoon"... "it's just a science fiction", "it's just a book, not connected to real life" - I heard it all in Russian. So no, it is not country-exclusive, it's a way of thinking everybody can have.
5596186
Yeah, it's 100500-s variation of heagcanon "the world of G-5 is not an actual Equestria, but her derivate of sorts", using CelestAi's ability to create worlds. Yes, it is much more kind variation than something FoE-sque (about all other parts of Equestria being abandoned and unusable without magic).
We will see, how it will turn out in the new canon :-)
I like your story about Chauvet Cave, and how you've used it. 'The dawn of time' IS worth looking back at to better understand what art can be, and what it can mean to humanity.
I feel like this post has been written before, possibly several times. Then again, I myself partook - about Season Three, eight years ago, as a child. What ever happened to 'spilled milk'?
5607047
I'm lactose intolerant.
5607095
Spilled vlax, then.
5607382
Oh, wow! Thank you for that.
It is very difficult to attribute sacredness to modernity and its creations because it is based on the principles of subjectivity and deconstruction that was required to eliminate our old traditions.
By all means modern cartoons are quite literally "just cartoons" meant for consumption. There is no divinity in modern art, trends and hype are the fuel of the urbanite.
5610802
Divinity and sacredness, like gold, are where you find them. Freed from conventional concepts of religion or mysticism, it is possible to find the wisdom of the ages in the humblest of things.
I say, without hesitation, that a shared joy in some meaningless thing is more sacred, more profound, and more holy, than all the sermons of history, and that the feeling of flow when playing a game is more transcendent than any act of worship.
The place where you play, where you share joy, is sacred ground greater than any claimed by any religion.
Which means, that, with the right state of mind and heart, even a cartoon can have more deep and profound uplifting value than the oldest religious tome.
The first step towards enlightenment is renouncing cynicism.
5610880
To uncover or create something divine one must be first aware of one's inner being. To be aware of one's inner being is to connect with one's ancestors. A rift in this chain will undoubtedly result in misery.
Yet thigs that are sacred are never meaningless. In the past there were rituals that accompanied the most mundane of tasks and the most mundane of crafts. Each action had a reason, in conjunction to their spirit and that of their ancestors. So that leaves us with joy, shared joy. I do not see any joy or happiness in this, I see only a distraction from our shared misery.
And yet, I cannot shake the feeling of certain doom.
Being and stability are regarded by our contemporaries as akin to death; they cannot live unless they act, fret, or distract themselves with this or that. Their spirit (provided we can still talk about a spirit in their case) feeds only on sensations and on dynamism, thus becoming the vehicle for the incarnation of darker forces.
What a loving, principled, and touching 'flame' this is...also a love letter.
5705269
Yes. This is so.
5595884
Mlp is directed to little girls while avatar is centered around a slightly more mature audience so it’s able to convey real world problems and adult themes without to much backlash if done correctly