OP Twilight is best Twilight

I knew it! I also feel that Too Many Pinkie Pies was pre-season three. There is just no way that she struggled with a "turn stuff into an orange spell". If I had to guess I'd say that Too Many Pinkie Pies was set some time in season 1...

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OP Twilight is ONLY Twilight.
dl.dropbox.com/u/31471793/FiMFiction/emoticons/misc_TwilightWut.png
Yes Twi, it's true.

I love OP!Twilight.

so do i!

I do not see how Twilight is not going to end up either an Alicorn or a Goddess or something.

im not sure how i should react to this if it turns out that way. i mean; i sounds like the bane of half the fics in the fandom that i love (the awesome twi ones), but on the other hand; this has happened before at times, and they've managed to make it good and the fanfics has obviously survived (and thrived).

>Also I looked at S3 opener again. Holy crap I do not see how Twilight is not going to end up either an Alicorn or a Goddess or something.

It gives me hope that there's at least one arc planned. Hope the show runs long enough to find out what it is.

There's no way Twilight's not going to end up swimming in importance. However, I really really hope it happens a couple of seasons down the road. Basically because when she becomes a goddess (or whatever), the entire premise of the show changes. It won't be little bookworm twilight making friends for the first time. It'll probably be almighty alicorn Twilight ruling the land of Equestria with untold power. It's an entirely different set of problems and the show will never be the same. They may even end up introducing new characters in order to fill the 'cute librarian living a quaint little life in Ponyville' void and I don't think these characters will ever spawn the same love in us (the viewers) as the original cast did.

Tldr: I hope she becomes an alicorn near the end of the series.

Uhhh.... Sorry for ranting. I spent the whole day thinking about this at work.

Perhaps Luna and Tia only need Twi to take over for two weeks while they take a holiday in the Neihamas?

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I expect it will be the show finale, actually. If they've done things right they have a two- or three-parter for the show finale written up already so unless their funding is cut midseason they can do it whenever.

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Agreed. Though perhaps the script is not finalized to allow for some changes in the story continuity.
Also, even though I agree that is probably the end, I hope we'll get some kind of epilogue. I've read some of the stories about Twilight (and sometimes friends) post-apotheosis, and I'd be interested to get the FIM writer's take on it.

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The Black Book had to be deliberate foreshadowing. Alicorn Twilight? Yeah... I'm okay with that. But whatever happens, Ms. Overall Plotarc is the gal I want to slow-dance with!

Would it be possible to try to order some episodes based on Twilight's relative power levels? If nothing else, it might enlightening to try...
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Also: Theory on Orange Difficulties
In that episode Twilight also pulled off the banishing spell to get rid of all the extra Pinkies, so it kinda contradicts twilight having trouble with "a simple transmutation spell."

I say it wasn't that simple. If you pay attention to what she transforms into what over the the seasons, and take into account similar spells in DnD(plus other DnD logic), changing an X into an orange is actually quite difficult. In earlier seasons, she is able to turn a few inanimate objects into other inanimate objects. This appears to end when she loses her concentration or after a certain amount of time. In the first Trixie Ep she gives out free mustaches. Disguise Other, Sor/Wiz 2, weak as a kitten. Seems pretty simple. later that season, she turns an apple into a carriage and mice into horses(still creepy), but if you look closely she seems to be casting the spell by rote memory. As if from a scroll. Hence this is probably a single-purpose spell, and would need extensive research to be made useful outside of planned situations(Twi also stats that the spell will end in a few hours, and she effectively had no backup. All the hallmarks of a "weak" transmutation or a one-shot scroll).
So it appears to be easier to cast "higher level" spells when learned by rote-rather than practice. Relatively weak spells can be versatile, but remain limited. Finally, as evidenced by her ever-increasing abilities with Blinking(teleport) and Telekinesis, training improves a spell
So in 403 she has "trouble" with an apple-to-orange spell? Take a look at how it works.
-Not rote, but practiced. She'll naturally have a harder time with a "versatile" spell.
-The spell is versatile in the first place. She can change different kinds of living things into different living things
-What was that? Living things? Same as with the horses from S1, even down to retaining features from the original shape, but at no other time do we see her transmute living creatures. An at-will spell, anyway.
-Duration. Before now, her spells seemed not last long. This one just... never stops. We still see the Bird-Orange flying around long after it gets hit.
-Finally, It wasn't an anything-to-orange spell in the first place, much less and apple-to-orange spell. This spell creates hybrids of X and an orange. Presumably if it worked(without missing because of shenanigans) we would a tasty orangple. Which is obviously like, a 5th level spell.

Don't take this too seriously, I wrote it on poni and painkillers

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Actually you make a good point. I like how you think. If I'd put more thought into it I might have come up with something similar.
Question: Do you attempt to rationalize the back story of the show?

We need someone to make a MLP timeline that makes sense.

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Yes and no. This is just a children's show, so rationalization is really only good for fanfic/roleplay ideas. But I tend to think of a lot of things in terms of RPG(DnD/Pathfinder in particular) mechanics, pone not excluded. It prolly doesn't help that they seem to lift a good heap of spells right out of the 3E handbook.
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You mean like this?

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Well, if you'd like I've got a story that is my attempt to connect as many of the dots from canon into a workable whole as I can.

I tend to think of a lot of things in terms of RPG

I know that feel...
Also, I wish I could play more D&D, my group can only get together sporadically.

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Interestingly, that spell lent credence to my thesis I'm using in Apotheosis/Main Sequence, which is this:
Magic cannot fundamentally change the nature of a thing.

The oranges? They were still whatever they were, plus an orange.
The transformed rocks? They were still rocks, just temporarily altered.

Luna is the only one who can do that trick, fundamentally change something. She did it with herself and she did it with Twi. Technically you could suggest she did to the entire world but that's another issue.

And I can blather about this stuff because it's my blog so HAH.

I don't think twilight will become anything else than she it. what i think is happening is she is being trained in darker magic, in prep for changing tutors. from Celestia to Luna!

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Luna is the only one who can do that trick, fundamentally change something. She did it with herself and she did it with Twi. Technically you could suggest she did to the entire world but that's another issue.

What part was that?dl.dropbox.com/u/31471793/FiMFiction/emoticons/misc_TwilightWut.png

I should really reread that story. It was good.

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I believe that may have been the part where Luna stripped the demon thing of it's 'destiny' and bound it to Twilight instead.

Remember that black book was a spiral bound ledger with a swirled star pattern on the front.

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She rebelled against her chosen destiny (herself) (That's a Big Deal for a god because gods cannot choose to do that as per the conversation at the ouroboros)
She engoddened Twi.

The ultimate repercussions of the NMM incident are...well, basically the entirety of modern Equestria, so Main Sequence will probably touch on some of the things that have come out of her rebellion.

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I'm guessing it's less of a 'Luna' thing, though, and more of a 'do this and things will get pretty crazy' thing that has sub-descriptor 'don't try it anyway, cuz it prolly won't work. Amirite?

Also: Main Sequence is the next in the series? I like your stuff, so I look forward to it. Also bought a copy of your book, looks interesting

I don't see why all of this can't be foreshadowing her becoming an official court archmage, or something. That book Luna had had some strong evidence relating it to Star Swirl, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't an alicorn. Though really, there's no solid evidence of that... Twilight might've just forgone the cardboard wings on her costume. BUT YEAH, I'm leaning towards "position of great importance (with no accompanying physical transformations)" over "alicorn". Once something is canonized, the amount of fanfiction with awesome and unique takes on it slows to a trickle, and that would just make me a sad thing. dl.dropbox.com/u/31471793/FiMFiction/emoticons/misc_Vinyl_sad.png

But if it does become canon, I guess I'll still have my X-becomes-a-Changeling stories. That's kind'a the same thing, right? dl.dropbox.com/u/31471793/FiMFiction/emoticons/misc_Twilight_crazy.png

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The way they discuss things just makes it seem like there is a huge amount of risk involved in whatever they're intending. That doesn't really jibe with just-a-court-Archmage.

I mean, it's certainly possible, and may in fact be what they're doing. But the impression I get from how Tia and Luna discuss it is that it's something that they cannot afford to be even the slightest iota wrong about.

(And with AU fics even CANON does not stop us! Fanfics, awaaaaaaay!)

And changelings are pretty awesome. I kind of want to fiddle with them in the Apotheosis-verse at some point. I totally have a full origin story and everything.

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It's a Luna thing. Twilight couldn't engodden anyone any more than water could be dry.

Ah OP Twi, how we love you.

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"Main Sequence"? Sounds vaguely ominous to me, although that might be because most media tends to focus a lot on stellar death. I suppose it is one of the more interesting bits.

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It's still a working title at this point, but it's mostly because, hey, the sun is a main sequence star...

Anyhow. No ominousness intended. I'm totally not aiming for [Sad] or [Dark] tags.

578850 Yea, even since I remembered Hasbro owns WotC, and thus D&D I've just assumed Equestira is is a D&D world, just a very nice one. Ponies are like humans in that they're everywhere, but they don't have a whole lot of kingdoms of their own. This is obviously not exactly right because they're more like three races, but the idea is the same.

As to the orange spell, it's totally powerful. Then again the order of episodes could be very vague if you want it to be. I put Luna eclipsed in season 1 simply because it seemed nicer if it's only been a few months (summer solstice, also known as midsummer, is in June) since she got back rather than some months and a year. There is nothing in that episode that contradicts that placement. In fact the only reason Magic Duel has to be season two is that one appearance of the cakes.

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No, what I'm asking is can anypony with enough power/a large enough destiny/the right set of traits can do a similar "defying of fate?" Like if Celestia was put into the same situation? Or is very limited to "Luna can do this. If you are not Luna, forgetaboutit."

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I've known this from day 1. They even released a joke-post detailing an "upcoming MLP-DnD crossover", complete with pink Beholders and everything. It actually (partially) inspired a PonyD20 game I'm running.

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This is a conceit that's behind the Apotheosis-verse so you'll have to bear with me.

Only the gods actually have to worry about the whole idea of fate in general. Only gods lack free will, basically, because they're embodied archetypes that may or may not learn to be actual people (or ponies), and not people to begin with. Look at the ouroboros. It doesn't even have a concept of morality. The Everfree Demon-God basically saw Luna-As-Nightmare-Moon as a mother that had gone on a trip for a while and her acting otherwise obviously was due to these stupid mortals distracting her. All gods are essentially eldritch abominations with a singular duty that defines their morality.

Let's look at Discord - why didn't he teleport the EoH to the other side of the world? Why didn't he teleport the BEARERS of the EoH to different pocket dimensions or whatever? He was pretty bright, if he didn't want to lose it was pretty obvious what to do. Discord though is the incarnation of chaos, and he cannot take an action whereby he would be unable to be defeated. That doesn't mean that he can't win - he just simply can't take actions that would result in less than even odds of beating him. To do otherwise would be too orderly.

So while Celestia could certainly choose to be other than she is now, she couldn't have abandoned her duties (whatever she was originally created for - probably simply the whole sun-and-moon thing with the side of Equestrian Might). If rule was not part of her duties, she could just live as the sun and occasionally fire-from-heaven Bad Dudes. If it was, she could have become a tyrant in truth. And even done it with the best of intentions. If you don't understand free will yourself, why would you value it for others? If you were sufficiently powerful, and sufficiently knowledgeable, why would you allow anyone to make poor decisions?

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I think what he's trying to understand — or at least what I'm trying to understand now, lol — is why Luna is the only goddette able to engodden others. What's preventing Celestia from engoddening a mortal, if put into a similar situation? The only logic I can come up with is that to do so would be to twist this apparently very (fictionally) real force of Fate to apply to them, since it applies to gods. And you'd presumably need some power over Fate to do that, and as you said, Fate controls gods, not the other way around... except where Luna is concerned for some reason. I'm hoping that's not entirely right, because I like the idea of Twilight now being a Fateless god with no restrictions other than what she was taught by those who raised her, something that I'm pretty sure other gods don't have (since they weren't raised in the traditional sense, I assume... I could be wrong).

I'm aware that this is stuff that could conceivably be covered in your Apotheosis sequel, so I won't be upset if you don't respond for fear of spoilers, lol.

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Ah, "What prevents Celestia from doing it" is perhaps the wrong question. The right one is, "Why could Luna do it?" Because Luna is the Muse, the Artist. Her archetype is New Things. Celestia's archtype is Architect. She can build and maintain on a breathtaking scale, but only with what's there. So, put her in the same situation - she probably could have kept Twilight from dying. Twilight wouldn't have become a god then. And really, it's not something Luna can really do at will. Like every masterpiece, it is unique and from the soul every single time.

(You can fill in some others if you want. Scar is Air and Fire, so his archetypes is/are the Warrior Poet. His brother is Water and Earth, so he's the Craftsman/Builder. The Gryphon's god would probably be another Warrior archetype, maybe Warrior Prince. Chrysalis is Deception. If Sombra was a god, he seems to have been Tyranny.)

Twilight's archetype is Scholar. However, she is the only mortal-turned-god in my setting, which means that she has a unique sort of free will. She does not have to take up whatever duties that would entail. So yes, she's unfettered. On one hoof that doesn't make much difference, because Twilight isn't going to go (immediately) mad with power and try to take over the world. On the other hoof, that means that interacting with other gods, and the metaphysics of the world in general, is...interesting.

As a brief contradiction to myself, perhaps Tia could engodden someone. But it would be a hugely different process, and I wouldn't even know where to start. It would only happen if it occurred within her archetype...she could probably put a broken god back together or something. I don't know! This is crazy metaphysical stuff that I'm playing fast and loose with.

This whole thread needs to be an Apotheosis appendix.