noise."Worldbuilding XV: Equine Teeth · 11:45pm Jul 9th, 2021
Let’s talk about teeth.
Specifically, pony teeth.
More specifically, equine teeth.
Just recently, I was chatting on Discord with someone regarding equine ear movement, and while that’s a worthy topic to cover as well, I just don’t have the time to delve into it at the moment, so it’s teeth you get.
Humans have some number of teeth, I think it’s 32; we’ve also got baby teeth which fall out and are replaced with adult teeth. Humans also have a number of wisdom teeth that come in when we’re adults, one to four extra molars.
Ponies also have teeth, and if they’re like actual horses, they’ll have somewhere between 36 and 40 teeth.
Ponies do have a set of baby teeth, which consists of twelve incisors and twelve pre-molars. In actual equines, those start erupting around the time of their birth (first incisors, second through fourth pre-molars) with the final baby teeth coming in 6-9 months after birth (third incisors).
Permanent teeth come in starting around 9 months (first molar) and end around the time they’re 4-5 years old, after which they’ve got their adult set, the ones they’ll have for the rest of their life. Just like with humans, the baby teeth eventually fall out, which means that pony mythology might include a tooth breezy.
Source
Hey, it’s a stressful job. Give her a break
Once a pony is an adult--five or six years in an IRL equine--she’s got a full set of teeth, which she’ll keep for the rest of her life.
Unlike humans, who have teeth with nougat-y centers, equine teeth are designed to constantly chew tough grasses that don’t want to be eaten, so they’re constantly erupting through a pony’s life. We’ll touch on that later as it comes to dentistry, but the basic idea is that they’re constantly pushed through the gums to account for wear. Unlike some herbivores, though, they don’t keep generating through an equine’s life, so once there’s no more tooth to wear down, that’s it.
As I mentioned above, adult equines have 36-40 teeth.
Teeth are counted in quartets, since they’re (usually) symmetrical across the centerline and between top and bottom jaw. An adult pony has for sure three sets of incisors (humans have two), three sets of pre-molars (humans have two), and three sets of molars (humans also have three).
Equines might have a few more pre-molars, called wolf teeth. Those grow between the incisors and other pre-molars. They’re optional teeth, and while they might improve grass nomming, they’re often removed in IRL equines. Much like the wisdom teeth some adult humans have, I suppose.
It’s a common trope in HiE and PoE stories that ponies are afraid of humans because the presence of canine teeth signifies a predator.
Except it turns out that horses have ‘em too.
Well, sometimes.
That variability in the number of teeth? Most stallions have a full set of canines. Useful when you’re fighting off other stallions for control of a herd, y’know.
Mares get them, too, but not always, and when they do, it’s not always a full set. According to Wikipedia, about 28% of mares have some number of canine teeth, from 1-4, and they may not be fully erupted.
But I think the major takeaway here is that ponies would certainly know what canine teeth are, and they certainly wouldn’t automatically assume canine teeth = predator.
In domesticated IRL equines, canine teeth are often removed because not only can they be problematic with bits, but they also can cause issues with the tongue (I’m sure any of us who have accidentally bitten our tongue are wondering why that’s a thing that can happen). The same holds true for wolf teeth.
Since equine teeth don’t have soft nougat-y stuff inside, instead of going for the full novocaine and pliers, the teeth can be filed down. And since I’m talking about filing, I might as well cover the major idea of dental care as it applies to equines: floating.
In equines, the teeth continuously erupt, in order to make up for the wear and tear from chewing tough plants. Sometimes, that wear is uneven, leaving sharp spots which are both painful and less efficient at chewing. The solution is to file down the sharp bits, sort of like filing your nails. This would be the staple of pony dental checkups, a cleaning and filing. Woe betide the human who undergoes such a procedure.
For vanity or other reasons, teeth could be filed down to the gumline if required. Not recommended practice by the American Dental Association, I hasten to note.
I rarely go into my headcanon on these, but Imma gonna indulge myself here. I think that earth ponies most closely mimic IRL equines, and the stallions get a set of four, while some percentage of the mares get them, too. Whether or not they have them removed or filed down is a matter of personal preference.
Unicorns have a rarer distribution of canine teeth--stallions, a small percentage of the population gets them, and mares hardly ever. Those who do typically have them either filed down as a normal part of dental practice, or removed entirely.
Pegasi, they’re prevalent in mares and stallions. Aggressive ponies need aggressive teeth.
[I should also mention that I am not an equine dentist, and these are facts I’ve found on the internet, but I’m open to corrections by an actual equine dentist.]
I was gonna rant about work but I’m too tired to bother.
Yet again, I have a moment of going "Wait, I do recall a fic that made a big deal about the canine teeth". Only for a moment later to remember "Oh right, that was Silver Glow... duh!"
But here is the really scary thought given how like humans Pony teeth growth would be...... Flurry Heart teething!
We have a pair of Scottish Terrier puppies who are now just about 7-8 months old. We got them in Feburary so yeah puppy teeth are FUN FUN FUN
A story about Flurry heart or the cake twins would be fun and cute to read.
Cavities suck HARD, doing fillings every six months would be absolutely horrible
Processing...
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Headcanon accepted. Awaiting implementation to future fics.
5552580
I can vouch for that, and it's even worse when the whole tooth is dying, really pain....
That phrase really rustles my jimmies for some reason.
Interesting, although I wonder how intelligence and cooking factor into this.
Hear me out. From what I understand, most evidence points towards humans evolving also from herbivores. This explains why most primates and archeological ancestors have much larger jaws and more teeth than we do. But within our evolutionary chain, there is actually a point where the jaws transitioned rapidly to a size similar to ours today. The current hypothesis for this is that’s when our ancestors learned to cook, which reduces how much we need to chew our food.
Perhaps this is why ponies in the show have much smaller jaws and possibly fewer teeth than real-life equines. Then again, I might be thinking too hard.
5552599
You're quite right.
I had all my wisdom teeth taken out when they were growing in.
5552639
I was the lucky one in the family: all four of my wisdom teeth came in straight. I'll be 27 in three weeks, with the full set of 32 teeth. I guess it makes sense when you think about it: I always did have a big mouth.
Don't forget that the Royal Guard are formed from dragon's teeth sown under the light of the moon, so their teeth may be slightly different
The difference between growing and continuously erupting was unclear to me until I looked it up and found the bit you seem to have omitted: horse teeth are hugely, disturbingly long, with most of each toothberg hidden below the gum line. Each adult tooth is sized for a lifetime of wearing down.
Which, of course, necessitates the inevitable fact that Princess Celestia wears dentures.
5552599
Maybe ponies might still have a need to chew something to stop their teeth overgrowing now their cooked diet means their teeth tend to overgrow, something like rough shewing gum and a hard stick or bone to gnaw on. It could be that richer ponies tend to need to do this more than poor ponies due to their diet containing more cooked food (they don't need to occasionally graze) so having to use to could be seen as a sign of status.
5552670
That could explain her strange relationship with cakes (and possibly puddings). Imagine spending hundreds of years daintily gumming the softest of foodstuffs before the invention of dental implants. No wonder she learned to sustain herself on tea alone.
I wonder how Luna's denture visit will go once her teeth run out...
5552687
Or maybe they could just whack them back down with a hammer when they start to get
oh shit
when they start to get a bit long in the tooth
How would ponies handle things like dentures and fillings? No doubts there would be cases where teeth fall out, get broken, or otherwise need to be replaced.
Given you say they don't have the quishy nouget center like humans and file their teeth, I'd imagine replacements would be more common in ponies than in humans.
5552599
That is, I believe, also why we have so many dental problems. Our teeth don't actually fit into our jaws. Wisdom teeth in particular, are a problem because a lot of the time there just isn't space for them to erupt, which is why they take so long, sometimes don't erupt, or have to be pulled when they do.
That's also why I've heard it recommended that eating more tougher foods early on can help with jaw development and actually prevent some dental issues down the line.
I remember that Minuette was confused by Dale's fillings.
Interestingly, while googling to confirm my suspicion that equines are less likely to need fillings due to their teeth lacking living inner tissue, I found that fillings DO exist for equines! Admittedly, the fillings recommended for equines have to be designed differently; where humans often use metallic alloy fillings due to the "permanent" nature of our teeth, equines require composite polymer fillings designed to wear out at the same rate as their normal teeth to reduce the need to file it away again later.
While doing fact checking on human teeth, wikipedia reminded me that since human enamel (the outside whitish layer) does not get repaired by the body, human enamel must be strengthened and regenerated externally by other means, namely fluoride toothpaste. Since the enamel is made of calcium phosphate, calcium and phosphorus dissolved in saliva, food or drink may also re-mineralize back into the teeth is long as the pH is above 5.5. Plaque can interfere with this process because it forms a physical barrier that blocks the liquid from getting to the enamel, which is why brushing is important.
While I have no doubt Dale will be able to procure some toothbrushes, and should be able to get enough access to calcium and phosphorous through foods, I wonder about his access to fluoride pastes. The benefits of fluoride on human dental care are well studied, but the literature doesn't seem nearly as positive about it when it comes to equines. It seems that due to the nature of constantly erupting teeth, they have less need for teeth to be "hardened", and so the risk of fluoride poisoning outweighs the benefits. My guess is that unless Dale remembers and specifically asks for it, the ponies will not give him fluoride toothpaste. But I'm no expert, so I might well be wrong.
Rest well when you do!
5552584
Why wait for future fics, when you can read it now?
5552701
Shameless self-plug is shameless.
I respect the moxie, though, so sure, I'll give it a gander at some point.
5552580
On the other hand, the more common a procedure is the more effort is put into making it suck less. Especially when the patients are sapient.
Fangs for the surprisingly interesting information!
Domestic rabbits also need their teeth filed for the same reasons horses need their floated. Wild bunnies get eaten too quickly for the uneven wear to impact their quality of life.
When I found out the basics of this topic it definitely changed one of the minor conversations I had planned for my own story...
5552699
I need to remember what my main filling is. Maybe it's a polymer too, because I definitely picked the weaker, non-metal option, though it's been going strong for over 20 years now (knock on wood!)
I did my own research about jaws, though in a completely different direction. A more obvious signifier of carnivorous traits would not be just in teeth, since as we see here, many herbivorous species still retain canines.
What would be more alarming would be if said alien has: flat tongues, lips that go to the back of the mouth.
Carnivores tend to have less sensitive taste buds, and don't need strong tongues to move hard rough food around while chewing, they tend to swallow chunks whole. Wide mouths are, of course, to let you open your jaw wide enough to clamp down on necks or limbs. If you have a pet dog or cat, those are the type of mouths to be observant for.
5552696
Well, dentures are canon, so probably a lot like we do! Though this also explains why "the age of [your] teeth" can be a vanity issue.
5552687
Or this explains the Pie family literally eating rocks, whether as candy or soup. May be a less common practice today, but something typical "back in the day."
5552599
Also that bit for here. ^^,
But it's worth noting that while we both came from herbivore stock, humans are rather a different kind of herbivore - we seem to be more the "fruits and veggies" kind, not the "grass for breakfast" kind, as indicated by our guts not being built to extract nutrition from grasses and such, or even really digest them.
5552699
Fluoride is a communist conspiracy to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N1KvgtEnABY
5552909
I thought metal fillings were being phased out due to the (obvious) health risks?
5553143
I dunno'. Keep in mind I got this filling like 20 years ago, so things may definitely be different now, but I distinctly remember being offered two choices: one was metal, which would be more durable and easily seen, and the other was something else, which would be more camoflaged but weaker.
Really need to get myself a dental checkup one of these years...
5553143
I don't know about phased out but, as far as health risks go, see Skeptoid #36.
TL;DR: If they're being phased out, it's because of bad press, not because they're actually dangerous.
EDIT: Ahh. Just checked. Phase-out is recommended for a bunch of smaller reasons, such as the increased hazard for mercury release in MRI machines.
5553266
According to the Wikipedia page for the amalgam fillings, the alternatives used in humans are "Resin composite, glass ionomer cements and ceramic or gold inlays"
5552569
She did have cute little fangs.
I hadn’t really thought about that, to be honest . . . I think they’re born with milk teeth out, I don’t know about the rest. I would imagine that they grow in, maybe I should check for videos on foals teething.
...Just googled it:
Likely it would be longer in ponies, since the show implies that they have longer development periods than IRL equines.
5552574
Huh, I never considered that dogs also go through teething . . . and probably lots of other mammals, as well. Weird to have had that sort of mental blind spot for so long.
Or just straight up terrifying.
5552580
On equine teeth, filing is probably not significantly different than having fingernails filed or whatever (aside from the discomfort of having the tools in your mouth). Really wouldn’t want to have filings done on human teeth.
5552584
I feel like I mentioned it in one, once. But maybe I’m thinking of something else.
5552585
I’ve gotten lucky in that department
5552588
It’s not wrong. . . .
5552599
I’m not sure that our ancestors were pure herbivores, I think they were at least somewhat omnivorous, although I’d have to do some digging to be sure (I think that some primates are omnivores, anyway).
Interestingly, I was just yesterday listening to a podcast that mentioned in passing how human jaws and teeth have changed from primate jaws and teeth, with not only the jaw getting smaller and the wisdom teeth being superfluous, but also the canine teeth losing all their function. Dietary changes, whether it be cooked food or something else, could certainly have accounted for that.
That would be a reasonable hypotheses. Even switching from pasture grasses and leaves to easier-to-eat foods as staples of their diet could have caused such a change, even before ponies invented cooking. Although FWIW I tend to imagine them more horse-like, rather than exactly how they’re depicted in the show.
5552639
I’ve still got mine, and haven’t had any problems with them.
5552658
I’m one short, only got three. Also have a big mouth, which I suppose helps. Maybe it was all the wild plants I ate as a kid.
5552666
Hmm, yeah, that’s a difficult call. Really would depend on the kind of magic being used, I would expect. Canon suggests that the mirror pool produces similar-looking (and thinking) clones, which I would assume would go all the way to dentistry. Then again, if you’ve got dragon teeth in the mix, you might get some dragon-like teeth.
Which, in hindsight, if you were to go with the IRL equine standard of stallions being more likely to have wisdom teeth than mares, Shining would have some extra proof in his mouth that that’s where Royal Guards come from.
5552670
Oh, yeah, I should have mentioned that. Lots of mammals that chew on tough things have teeth like that, for obvious reasons.
Nah, she’s had a thousand years or more to perfect a tooth-replacement spell. Every few decades, she just magicks a new set in.
5552687
It is possible that they would have to have more aggressive dentistry to keep their teeth down with their more modern diet. And possibilities could run from something they have to chew, or even additives in their food to help (like putting sand in the flour, or something). Yeah, there very much could be differences based on what kind of diet a pony normally has or for that matter their tribe—I’ve speculated before that pegasi would often have soft hooves, ‘cause they don’t need to be hard up in a cloud (and all the hoof-related issues that would go with that). Unicorns would be the most likely to have a high diet of soft food, so might be the ones to most need filings and whatnot.
I did speculate in one fic that mares who have canines usually have them filed down because that’s the fashion, although most pegasi wouldn’t since often they’re more aggressive and less fashionable.
5552688
Okay, somebody needs to write that.
Not well, I would imagine.
5552689
“Whack them back down with a hammer” pretty much violates any kind of dentistry and yet is a very plausible cartoonish solution.
That legit is an expression that comes from old horses.
5553559
5553266
Keep seeing your dentist regularly. I've known people who've had problems with their teeth and you don't want any of that shit.
How do these facts correspond or conflict with the shot inside Big Mac's mouth in "Filli Vanilli"? I see that he doesn't have canines.
https://youtu.be/Co2xAQfTgH0?t=239
5553555
Not wrong as in 'incorrect'. (Unless you're going on the internet and telling lies.)
But definitely wrong as in 'disturbing'. This is possibly the least fun fact I've learned from you.
But all the other interesting stuff more than makes up for it!
Interesting! Thanks.
...Why is the filing called "floating", though?
5553566
"although most pegasi wouldn’t since often they’re more aggressive and less fashionable"
Alternatively, conventional pegasus beauty standards considering canine teeth attractive. In some universes, perhaps pegasus mares without or with small canines, or non-pegasus mares who want to pursue that kind of attractiveness, actually pursue more prominent canine teeth.
https://i.imgur.com/agsFfxp.jpg
This is relevant. I was always of the opinion that it was common practice for ponies to have their canine teeth pulled, mostly because they didn't really fit - what with their snouts being so short.