Clearing up some rumours · 11:26am May 5th, 2021
You may have heard on the grapevine that unfortunately the site is most likely being suspended from Patreon. After certain events that transpired last year, it was likely this would happen one day so I can't say I'm surprised and truthfully it's my fault for not having more of a contingency plan for this prepared. I am not particularly angry or anything at Patreon for this as I understand only too well that running a service that's open to the content Fimfiction has is challenging with scale.
I have a few options potentially on the table that are being discussed, none of which are ideal but some are clearly more appealing to the site than others.
- Potentially the least site affecting motion would be to move to SubscribeStar instead. I am preparing for this already as I believe regardless of what happens, diversifying a bit on our platforms we can use to support the site is a prudent move
- Another option is to simply remove adult content from the site. Clearly this is not ideal and would upset many people, although it would likely please a lot of others. Many people probably don't know this but Fimfiction actually started off as a safe for work site for quite some time due to my trepidations about hosting adult content. Over the site's existence I have often wondered about whether this is a mistake. To make my own opinion clear here, I have no qualms about the content but I do find myself questioning the appropriateness of it on Fimfiction, even with my best efforts at making sure it remains as adult content. I am sure someone could potentially take up the mantle of handling this side of the fandom's literary output.
- On a similar vein, we could try to comply better with Patreon's rules. This would mean the removal of just certain types of adult stories but retroactive application would be extremely challenging, and it's not likely Patreon would just accept us applying these rules on the fly going forwards. There's also the concern that these kind of rules are quite flaky and difficult to properly enforce as well as being prone to changing at any time. Edit: To be clear, this content is more all encompassing than some people think.
- We could also explore adverts that pay better than adsense or increase our ad presence to make up for the lack of Patreon. This isn't something I particularly want to do. I've always had the capacity for filling up Fimfic with more ads but have resisted despite the obvious incentive because I would rather have a site that's pleasant to use with minimal interruption. There's also the potential for adding adult ads to adult pages which again, is not something I want to do because those ads are extremely tacky and awful.
These are some of the options I'm currently exploring, just wanted to keep people in the loop to prevent there being faulty information out there.
Option 1 sounds best if we want the site to remain the same... Sorry to tell you but I already have to adblock half the site (I despise the disruptive ads in fics but have made an effort to whitelist as much as I can)
Option 3 is... I'm not even sure it's possible without a huge amount of man hours
Option 2 would be a big hit to readers, the number of clopfics and dedicated clopfic authors is pretty high.
Option 4 is the least impactful for supporters and people using adblockers but I'm worried that I'll feel the need to block more of the site.
i would support option one and start using it
If only we all could direct deposit to you.
~Skeeter The Lurker
In addition to Option One, you could also sell merchandise (e.g. clothes, mugs, etc.) on websites such as RedBubble and Society6.
For 2 and 3 it makes sense but I say only remove certain adult content that people complain about the most, like foalcon
Anything like polyamorus sex or just regular sex fics in general (Characters 18+ years old) is fine
Thanks or keeping us updated, Knighty!
I'd welcome 2 or 3. Some content really has no place on this website, like foalcon.
Option 3 or 1, I would prefer. Loosing some very questionable adult content is not such a big loss in my small opinion. As long as we can keep the more moderate adult stories it would be fine.
Thanks for letting us know, Knighty.
Thanks for the update. Option one sounds good to me, I'd definitely switch my patronage over to it from Patreon if the latter went away.
3 and 1. Hosting some foalcon and other nasty stuff isn't worth losing the site over.
Thanks, knighty.
For all that it's worth, I would be most happy with a combination of #1 and #4. SubscribeStar with the option of an ad-free experience, and a minor increase in ads for people not subscribed (relative to what we have now).
Advertising driven by fandom creators on nsfw and some sfw pages (similar to Derpibooru's model) would also be a good approach, I feel. Derpibooru is also one of the few sites I keep whitelisted.
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Oooh yes! I might pay for a mug with
knighty's face on itthe fimfiction logo.While increasing ad presence may seem to increase monetization, myself and many others have begun to use adblock on sites that go overboard. It's a delicate balance to strike and far too easy to get wrong. I don't use an adblocker on here because the ads aren't unreasonable, but there have, in the past, been sites that I stayed away from because the ads made the site too difficult to navigate, or were just burdensome to use. Ootions 1, 2, and 3 are the best for long-term success. Reducing the presence of, or completely removing, adult content, or even just the obviously obscene stuff, would not be much of a loss to many people.
Option 1 appears to be the safest option to keep things going smoothly. I've been thinking about joining this site's patron for a while now, so if the site switches over starscribe, I believe I will actually join. My biggest dilemma with becoming a patron was how to politely ask if there was an option to keep receiving ads.
As for options 2 and 3, I hate the idea of loosing the works and content, especially the ones I don't like. Personally, I feel that having things around that you don't agree with or don't like is pretty important. The greatness of harmony comes from the diversity of the people and their opinions.
Merch would be pretty sweet!
(EDITED)
Two or three seems like the best option; the racy stuff can just leave for Ao3 or somewhere that doesn't need Patreon. It's not like there's a lack of porn on the internet.
Option 1 is the go-to option, to be honest, getting an alternative steam of money not tied to a company that has descided that it has a moral imperative to moderate content.
Option 2 I don't really care either way if it was not for that some really large stories, Looking at you Fallout: Equestria, have lewd themes. having stories like that disappear overnight will be the equivalent of just putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger.
Option 3 is just no. You will never satisfy them and after you've cleansed what they asked they will, without doubt, have new demands later as some crap or another goes down.
Option 4 like option one is just a good idea, more things to diversify your income stream. Just don't go too overboard with it
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Have you used AO3? Fimfiction is leagues better.
Just axe the shit that's dragging the whole site down. Namely foalcon, incest and bestiality. There's lots of great adult content on this site that doesn't need to be lost.
Options 1 and 4 are the ways,
Hasn't Subscribestar funded some questionable people?
Keep the site how it is. As a long time patreon supporter I'm happy to move with the site to new platforms if it's needed.
There are a lot of stories that aren't just pure clop but have NSFW or adult content in them so trying to enforce 2-3 is untenable imo.
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Subscribe star is running a business, they don't care about who's on there. A company deciding that some content is not good is how Patreon has now arrived at targeting fimfiction.
No offense, but this is just a point of advice. Keep in mind that taking option 2 or 3 may mean that Fimfiction will lose a great deal of its fan base, since some people here exclusively write clop.
And it isn’t like there isn’t an alternative. DA seems to allow much of the content in question and has many of the same features that this site has.
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You say that like it's unreasonable?
Like, caring about who you're doing business with is just common sense.
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It is.
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Discrimination against the brony community has been a phenomenon for years now. It’s not like we won’t be a questionable fandom regardless of what we do.
I'll be totally honest: I don't think option 4 is going to work. People do not like ads.
Kofi has also become another viable alternative payment platform if you're looking to diversify to more than one. They have subscriptions and subscriber rewards, though it costs a small amount per month to use those features.
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Patreon is a middleman, not a buisness partner. I am a business partner with Knighty as I want to fund him and his site, Patreon as a middle man has decided to get in between that. Just because they smartened up and changed their terms of service to get away with it after that debacle at the start of 2020 means it's right.
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One alternative could be free and premium service grades like YouTube and most Android apps have.
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...the middleman is still a part of the business, and caring about who they're in the middle of still common sense. Knighty didn't even blame them above and more importantly, who are we going to be associated with at Subscribestar?
Option 1.
When I tried running adverts on my own site, the income it generated was very disappointing, certainly not in scale with the amount it annoyed people. Running adverts is trading goodwill for money, and not a fair equation. It's why I was happy to jump on your Patreon when it became an option.
I'm not convinced options 2 or 3 are practical. There are too many stories that aren't properly tagged, and it'll be very hard to convince Patreon that they've all been removed. They'll either dismiss the effort, or they'll stumble across one thing that should have been removed and wasn't, and use that to decide not to trust us.
Hopefully moving to a different payment processor is fast and not a headache for you. Was never a fan of how Patreon treated people after it started cracking down on NSFW stuff last year, so i'll gladly open my wallet and support this site once something new becomes available.
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Who gives a shit? Unsavoury people use the same banks, credit card processors, browsers, internet providers, social media, and transport systems you use. They breath the same air, too. Are you going to hold your breath until they stop?
Seems like you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. You are basically presented with options with consequences, and whatever one you end up choosing, I am still gonna use this site and support it. I like it too much here to want to see it go downhill so easily.
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We will only be associated with subscribestar. The argument you're making is the same of claiming an ad on a youtube video is an endorsement, which is dum because adds are tailored to you and not to the video.
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ko-fi is a purely squeaky clean sfw service
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Why do you think that paying a company to help manage money is the same thing as getting an ad on a free to use website?
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...because the only part of that whole spiel that's equitable is the bank, and not doing business with a bank with a poor reputation is a normal thing to do?
Why are people treating this like an attack? It's common sense.
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Did, Paypal and other processors give the boot yet? It might be an idea to try to cut out the middleman. I know for sure Paypal is capable of recurring payments.
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Same principal.
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Handling payments via anything other than SubscribeStar/Patreon/Similar services is basically impossible for a global site of Fimfic's size due to the myriad of sales/vat tax laws
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That would make it difficult...
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I think that what they are trying to say is that no matter what we think, there will be people whom might begin association Fimfiction with the the wrong kind of people. This fandom in general doesn't exactly have a good reputation just because of the type of show MLP is, plus all of the adult content makes things worse. The last thing the fandom needs is to be associated with the wrong kind of people(people I know have called those who watch this show pedophiles without even gathering any information on the topic or even listening to my arguments that, even if there were pedos in the fanbase, the same could be said for literally any fanbase ever). Getting a further bad reputation is not a good thing. I don't know anything about whoever Subscribestar is associated with, heck, I never even heard of the site until just now, but if it's really bad, we would be better off looking elsewhere for solutions.
For the sake of pragmatism, 1 would be the way to go. Options 2 and 3 seem to be playing into the hands of those who notified patreon to begin with. I love this site to bits. I don't want to see it go.
5512932 From what I understand of Patreon's rules, any sexual relations between a bipedal character and a non-bipedal character (so any human/anthro x pony) is considered against their rules.
Basically every single M + Sex rated HiE fic falls in that category, anything involving a dragon and a pony, anything involving Capper and a pony, Captain Celaeno and a pony, etc (it's a long list).
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I didn't know that, though I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Expecting any form of decency or care from a company is a fool's errand. They'll proclaim furry/pony content as bestiality and deplatform queer folk, all because they're run by a bunch of people who've let their brains and souls leak out through their ears.
I'd probably just monetize through subscribe star and some increased ads.
5512982 They already did deplatform a ton of people for that. Those people, en mass, requested arbitration and almost put Patreon out of business for their BS.
Thank you for the honest and objective response knighty, it's much appreciated. Hopefully you're able to sort this out without too much of a headache.
Option one. Honestly, fimfiction is one of two remaining outfits I'm still paying via patreon, largely due to financial issues, but I'd welcome closing out my account and finding some other way to support TimeGhost, the other holdout.
I am aware that this is not the proper place, but is there any hope of implementing "offline threshold"? If you are offline for more than a few years your stories are forfeit, if they are not completed, and not in tags, but in spirit. You might mark story as finished, but if there is obvious cliffhanger that is a long way from resolving, and there isn't any "ending note" the stories are allowed to be adopted and finished by others? I have at least 4 authors that I know of, haven't been online for at least a year, each.