Omen of the Sun · 1:30pm Feb 25th, 2021
As you may have already heard, we've gotten our first good look at G5. I offer my thoughts on the matter below.
In the new movie, the pony world of Equestria has lost its magic. Friendship and Harmony have been replaced by paranoia and mistrust, and Ponies now live separated by species. Sunny -- a feisty and idealistic young Earth Pony -- is convinced there’s still hope for this divided world, but her slightly misguided and often hilarious efforts to change hearts and minds have led to her being branded a misfit. When Sunny befriends a lost Unicorn named Izzy, who wanders innocently into the Earth Pony town of Maretime Bay, the town has had enough. Izzy and Sunny must embark on an epic adventure that will include a daring jewel heist, outrageous conspiracy theories, elaborate musical numbers, and the world’s cutest flying Pomeranian. Their adventures will take them to faraway lands and force them to challenge the status quo by facing their fears and making new friends out of old enemies. The world Sunny has dreamed of her entire life could finally become a reality as Sunny and her newfound friends fight to prove that even little ponies can make a big difference.
So. Let's start with the good. This transitions nicely from "The Last Problem," in the sense of "Take what you have learned and carry it forward with you." And goodness knows that "Young idealist tries to heal the rifts in a once-united society now riddled with paranoia and distrust" is a timely tale for Current Year. The animation feels like it's trying too hard to be Pixar, but that's just a matter of acclimation after a decade of our favorite Flash puppets. And hey, come what may, it's more pony, and it can't spoil what we already have unless we let it.
Of course, that brings us to the bad, and a fair amount of that stems from G5's efforts to remain in the same worldline as G4. You know, the one that established on multiple occasions that the loss of magic, literal or metaphorical, would be a catastrophic, potentially extinction-level disaster. Certainly the end of equine civilization as we know it. I've gone on record as saying that "The Magic Goes Away" is my most hated plot device of all time. I get it, I get it, in order for the hero to save the day, the day needs to be in a state where it needs saving; otherwise they're a revolutionary without a cause. But we run into the Star Wars sequel trilogy problem: In order to give the new heroes something to do, they've rendered the achievements of the old ones meaningless.
Even worse, it's not like the world has forgotten what Twilight had to teach it. If you look closely, you'll see a full set of Bearer figurines on a shelf behind Sunny, along with three cutie mark buttons on the strap of her bag. And, of course, there are the big Rainbow Dash and Celestia mark posters on her wall. Ponies still remember the heroes of old enough to merchandize them... though reducing great figures of the past to collectible figurines may be a symptom of the greater problem. (And definitely not a read Hasbro intended. 
)
Oh, and the plot itself isn't exactly encouraging, but I'm not expecting much out of generic ad copy.
I can't help but think that this would work much better if Friendship is Magic were an in-universe work of fiction, with Sunny using its lessons as an initial springboard for her Grassroots Campaign of Harmony. We'll see how this goes, but it's hard to maintain my usual cautious optimism for new pony after seeing this. If nothing else, I can always say it's a catastrophic offshoot timeline. Maybe a continuation from one of Starlight's splinters.
Well, very interesting, and thanks for the commentary! There are worse standards than Pixar to hold oneself too, of course...
Out of curiosity, does your dislike extend to The Magic Goes Away?
So, immediately windigos?
I thought it was fairly well established that things just sort of start to fall apart without constant hooves-on maintenance, (the seasons don't change unless the ponies do it themselves) or are we retconning this?
I confess, I would laugh like a hyena if Twilight Sparkle "fixed" the world only to have her kingdom almost immediately schism as a direct consequence.
Yeeeeeaaahhhhh.... I do like the overall idea it's setting out for, just not as a direct continuation of the Equestria we know.
Now, we do need the answer to the question of how far into the future this is taking place, and what happened in the past to cause all this. But... not too hopeful we'll get satisfying answers to that beyond "Because it's what the plot we want to happen needs for it to happen". And of course we get the question, "What happened to Twilight?".
So yeah, not loving the happy ending override for G5 this is setting up.... but given the number of temporal shenaningans they got up to, I'm all for blaming this on Starlight's world breaking.... or Starswirl, you can never not be ready to blame Jerk-Beard the Wizard for something like this.
You know, I'm actually interested in the sun quilt behind her. I think that if the magic is gone, then that would mean that the sun and moon are grid locked, possibly splitting the world into two divisions of day and night. Sunny here is sporting a sun themed quilt, and it's a sunny day outside, so it's likely that they're in the sun division of the world.
Also, if you look closely, you'll notice that Sunny doesn't have a cutie mark, which the recent bedding merchandise proved she had. Remember when Tirek sucked out all the magic and ended up stealing cutie marks too, something that strangely didn't happen when Cosy did the same thing, or when Starlight and Trixie crossed into an area that nullified any and all magic. We know Sunny will eventually get her cutie mark, and I think that the series may have some potential, at least to fuel fan fiction.
Heck, they probably don't even understand what cutie marks are since Sunny is sporting three buttons of the Mane six, a Twilight bag, and a Rainbow Dash poster next to a Celestia quilt. That, and the fact that Sunny has a dream catcher, something that implies Luna can no longer help with nightmares, means that there must be a decent amount of history that was lost, which again, has potential for fan fiction fodder.
A world without magic where pegasi likely can't walk on clouds, unicorns need to use whatever magic they have sparingly, and where the sun and moon are frozen in orbit? Sounds like a really interesting scenario for the G4 cast to find themselves in in Fan Fiction, because isn't that why we're all here, for fan fiction and horse words?
Even if this movie is terrible and the series sucks, at least we'll have some new ideas to explore in the world of fan fiction, and new characters to throw into the mix.
Also like
"Wants people to be happy and is bad at doing that" does not exactly fit my internal definition of "activist". >.> So I think they're pushing, there.
Friendship is Magic begins with a book opening and ends with the book closing. I'm just sayin'.
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And just like electricity going away in our world, crippling existential dread has overtaken the land at the thought of the laws of physics being in flux! Oh, wait.
That's one of the things I've rarely seen happen in magic-goes-away stories: magic is considered natural in their world, so magic just leaving (all at once or bit by bit) should be just as disturbing as electricity or combustion no longer working in our world. Something we all depend on and never gave any thought to because we understand it well has just... stopped. And even aside from that, the implications it has for the foundations of the universe at large are troubling. The one time I wrote a story with magic going away, it was due to an outside force and the only reason I didn't plunge into the religious terror it would cause was because it was for a competition and I had a word count limit.
Yeah, this doesn't exactly fill me with glee. I'd be more open to it if it wasn't implied to be a follow-up to G4. What happened between then and now? Where's Twilight, since the finale all but stated she was immortal? And blah de blah de blah. Kind of hoping it's just "Equestria" in the sense that they're reusing names, with the posters just being a nod to G4 rather than an implication that it's all in the same world. Pixar likes sticking references to themselves across movies, but just because there's a shadow of a dog in Ratatouille that's a dead ringer for Dug in Up doesn't mean it is Dug. Probably just a pipe dream, though.
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Yeah, I think it's such a misplay if rumors that this is the same universe as G4 hold true. Constrained setting, painful questions, and what's the benefit? Unless they use old characters there's just no point.
Galaxy-brain level play if the bearers are hyper-merchantalized and popular characters, widely beloved for all the wrong reasons (valuable collector items, accessorized toys for screaming tots, and at-best a pleasant story and diversion) and part of the story is learning that yes, you are actually supposed to learn lessons from them and take it to heart.
The plot seems okay. It looks like a good setup for a series which focuses on embracing differences (tho wasn't that literally S8-9?) and learning about each other. And the style looks quite cute, although I heard only the movie is CGI so we'll see how literally everything else goes. Overall I'm cautiously optimistic, as the only thing that really grinds my gears is the G4 rumor, and even at worst that only offends my nostalgia.
We were all expecting Twilight to screw up royally, pun not intended but left alone once noticed. We were not expecting canon to agree with us.
Yeah, my thoughts honestly mirror yours for the most part. In the Offprint Discord server, Rayne pointed out that this is probably just going to be an inferior version of Zootopia, which I agree is kinda likely.
You mean to tell me that the old ruler who kept Equestria happy and at peace for a thousand years suddenly retiring to hand over the kingdom to a mare who couldn't even run a school without nearly causing the apocalypse ended badly for Equestria? I'm shocked, really.
My biggest concern from what little they've said so far is about the animation. Going from crisp limited 2d to full 3d cgi animation is a big jump that has historically been very difficult to make. But I will give them a chance. I hope there will be a trailer soon to let us see it in motion.
The other stuff doesn't really bother me. This is My Little Pony, they have a popular franchise to build from, I will allow them to reference it without tying themselves down to its decade-long buildup of continuity.
And more generally I guess I don't really have a problem with the idea that we must continually relearn the same important lessons because they don't last forever. Nor do I really think that makes past lessons pointless. That's how real life works, so I think it's okay for stories to do the same.
I personally think it would be a hilarious in-joke if G4 was a media franchise in G5 that the new main character is obsessed with.
It would hurt a lot less than the possibility that our favorite characters utterly failed and everything they fought for has been reduced to merchandise.
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Again, this but unironically. Who would've thought that Hasbro had the balls?
I think there’s always the possibility that it will be good. But that’s like saying there’s always the possibility The US mint will screw up a delivery and sign $1 billion over to me. I ain’t holding my breath.
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My thoughts exactly
Hear, hear!
I'll echo what others have said: This can still work if it's set far enough in the future. That way, Equestria can still have had its golden age in the rein of Twilight, before the new dark age begins. It's believable enough, since in real life, good times and bad times always inevitably follow one another. For now let's hold onto cautious optimism, and reevaluate when the time comes.
(That said, if they bring Twilight back as a bitter old spinster living in a hermitage, somebody hand me a spare torch and pitchfork...)
As I understand it CG means bigger production and investment, and I'm not sure if the newest generation of My Little Pony can generate enough audience to make it profitable. Ultimately I think should the new series be successful, its story aspect must also follow the example of the graphics and reach a height that the franchise never quite reached before, but I find it highly unlikely judging from the current material we have here.
Maybe I missed something, but how do we know this is the same universe as G4? I assume everyone is going off of more than the use of the word “Equestria”
It’s the lack of magic that’s the biggest setting problem. Life on Equestria relies on magic to the point even plants can’t live without it.
Maybe they’re not going for ‘gone’ so much as ‘dimmed’, like Onward.
Of course the trouble is that if paranoia and Discord are running rampant that means he hasn’t taken Fluttershy’s death well and isn’t regulating his domain. Or maybe he did a Destruction and quit. It’s not his fault anymore.
Oooh, that would be interesting. They won’t do it, but a retired Discord (thus lacking Absolute Cosmic Power) as the eccentric mentor. He still has staggering cosmic KNOWLEDGE. He can even be the only one in the setting with Any magic, since he still knows the truth of Harmony.
But yeah, it’s a darker world if Equestria has fallen. I hope they can relight the fires of friendship.
Hmm, phrasing it that way, what if magic in Equestria goes through cycles? What we saw with the Founders and Windigos was the beginning of the last magic cycle, however many thousands of years passed, and then there was this interregnum. And now magic is coming back.
I have rarely cared for CGI shows outside Beast Wars and ReBoot (Edit: and Transformers:Prime). Something about them just doesn't work for me, y'know.
While I'm willing to give it a shot, and let it impress me, the crawl does not fill me with confidence. I mean, unless they pull "Disney Starwars" levels of dumb****ery with the story, I'm going to have a hard time buying that the world the Elements created, one where not just the pony tribes, but whole other species (griffons, dragon, yaks, changelings, hippogriffs, etc.) were starting to integrate into a collective and mutually egalitarian society would go completely sideways to the point of racial segregation becomes the narrative outcome.
Not to mention, "the magic goes away" being a death sentence for the planet, since magic is a) core to the existence of so many creatures (no earth-pony magic to enhance plant growth, no pegasus magic to maintain the weather, changelings being unable to feed and starving to death) and b) would lead to one half of the planet being a burnt, barren wasteland, and the other a frozen, eternally dark hellscape, since, y'know, the SUN AND MOON DON'T MOVE ON THEIR OWN AND DEPEND ON PONY MAGIC TO RISE AND SET!!
Seriously, I like FoME's idea of MLP:FIM being an in universe story that inspires the heroes. That at least could make it a little more palatable.
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I think it was in the press release for the series. Supposedly, it takes place hundreds of years after G4.
This is pretty much my opinion too. I actually like the idea of a more dystopian Equestria that needs friendship to be reintroduced to the world (sort of like Equestria being at the point of falling like the Roman Empire did), but I always felt that this scenario should be used in an alternate universe/timeline where the Gen 4 efforts wouldn't be affected. The only way I can see this maybe working is if Gen 5 is so far in the future that it would be understandable that they forgot the Mane Six's teachings and learned how to get along without magic. But that makes it harder for the Member Berries to show up from Gen 4, so I'm betting it's at most three generations removed.
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My theory is that the book at the end of G4 exists in G5 as fiction, and she's a fan. Hence the merchandise. And she's inspired by the book, to make her world like the one in the book.
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Like most fan theories, this makes far more sense than what Hasbro is actually going to go with.
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This actually would make a lot of sense, and basically would legitimize their current world. If all of G4 were just a story, then the 'real world' could basically be just about anything.
There was a soap opera a long time ago (I've brought this up to people outside the fandom in other contexts but can never remember which one) where one season they killed off a character because something happened with the actor—whether he ended the contract, or got fired, whatever—and all the fans of the show hated it without him in it, so the end of the season was a woman waking up from a dream, then hearing that character in the shower and telling him she had a terrible dream where he wasn't in her life. So they bring him back for the next season, which basically rendered that whole season null and void. It could really be the same here, where everything we saw in G4 is just voided for the real world because it turned out the whole thing was just a story.
I really don't get why people are making all sorts of assumptions about it being or not being in the same universe as G4 when we've officially known that would be the case since January.
I also don't get why people are making assumptions about how things got from the end of FiM to how they are now when we haven't seen anything about it yet, we don't know how much time has passed, and most of all we don't actually know how 'now' is actually like.
What I do know is that Izzy is a cutie and I'm already ready to fight people over her being Best Pony.
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To be honest, FIM has frequently been pretty hand-wavy about the implications of its worldbuilding whenever it's (in)convenient for the story they want to tell. I don't really expect that to change much with this new iteration.
It's probably best not to scrutinise how the new gen is supposed to fit into the old world's continuity.
That said, as far as the loss of magic goes, it may not be as bad as it looks: Magic is probably too much of a wow factor for them to give it up long-term.
I suspect that by the end of the movie, magic would be restored to Equestria and the series would pick up from there with the magical status quo restored. Old fans get their magic back, new fans have a new world to explore, and the reset means that they probably don't have to adhere too closely to the rules of the old world.
Looks like they're trying to have their cake and eat it too, and who knows... it might actually work.
I'm gonna wait for reviews before I make my final judgment, but I'm not liking what I see so far. I may end up becoming a Gen Fourer of MLP.
Just found a couple more pics that popped up:
lh3.googleusercontent.com/Ex_iKh9C2lrCSL3jgnsVYM7lbpWlu5XjbzKCMpqmDkfZTYtVFS33GybwSYLP0-fuXiFPNFc=s170
lh3.googleusercontent.com/9ASwL2lW4n68i5YjUbzU4eLVc_k8sSj3slezYmzW4okynTo8oyphLtcLBdbmHi4lemyvpQ=s117
Looks like sombras actions may have done something over the long term
This may not be a case of magic goes away but Sealed or mayhaps receded
This does beg the question of what happened to the alicorns though
They were immortal last time I check so this may mean that the abstract apotheosis hypothesis could be correct if twilight is the source of this in the sense she disappeared first the rest followed after
Another to ask is what role the tree of harmony is in pony evolution considering its consequential absence and the fact it had a bond to the concept of magic, was its destruction the catalyst
Too many questions and not enough answers
Though I agree on the Pixar bit, so they may want to work on that
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It would at least make more sense than all the DC reboots. Imagine if Rainbow Dash rebooted the universe by flying too fast.
My thoughts? Visually, this could have been interesting... several years ago. As it stands, it looks like a more realism-based Filly Funtasia in terms of its shaders and models, and that's... not necessarily a good thing. Not really innovative, either, since we had these levels of quality as early as 2015 at least for the original Filly Funtasia trailer and 2017 for the Agent 327 trailer.
Story-wise? Eh, magic was poorly defined in the show, anyway, might as well say it's gone. It'll be interesting to see how all the tribes are flourishing on their own now that they've separated, though... I mean, they must be, otherwise how'd they survive? As for how things got so bad, it's easy: this is a Hasbro franchise. Something major happened, and Twilight sacrificed herself to save everyone. You might say it's the, umm, prime way Hasbro gets their plots going?
Expect the level of quality to be significantly lower than what you're seeing now, too, where the series is concerned. Dreamworks series typically omitted the particle hair, for example. If they do decide to go 3D for it, incidentally, which they're reportedly not.
I'll just say this straight up: I've tried copying Filly's models to learn from them. I made a 3D Valt the Wonder Deer. I have several attempts at designs for cartoony ungulates. 3D hooved toony creatures are my guilty pleasure. Maybe it's the beer talking, maybe it's the fandom rot getting to me, but I have zero motivation to try and copy these things. They're just not appealing, for several reasons, but shading prime among them. An NPR approach would have worked better. This? This is pretty much what Ray Harryhausen warned people would happen.
Still waiting for the hook, in short. Show us some bat pony villages, or horse lore that hasn't been covered yet (Maugris's fey stallion, preferably, it's the easiest lore to adapt), or anything that hasn't been done to death yet. Until such a time, not holding out hope.
Edit, now that the coffee has supplanted the beer: I'm waiting to see something that makes me want to watch it. Star Wars EU had variety in Jedi, added clans, that got me hooked. Filly Funtasia had magic mirror smartphones, balanced cast, and numerous different tribes/races as well as a trigger-happy gym teacher, that was a hook. Valt had animal Avatar: the Last Airbender. Mind you, it was pretty bad and got even worse, but it had a hook.
Not seeing the hook for G5 yet, is the thing. What sets it apart from FiM is clear, but what sets it apart from any generic fantasy show about friendship or even just any show in current year... isn't. The movie should draw people in. I'm hoping the hook is there, otherwise the 2D show is also dead on arrival for me.
Looks too much like Filly Funtasia for my taste.
One thing I noticed that almost no-one has touched on so far: 'new friends out of old enemies'. Of course this could just be referring to the three main pony tribes, but that seems a bit of a stretch, in which case the only 'old enemies' would be the G4 ones, and correct me if I'm wrong, but there are only three enemies from G4 who weren't reformed by the end of the show, two of whom actively worked together to make magic go away, and are likely to have been released since magic has indeed left the building...
I don't know how well they're going to pull it off, but after seeing the characters actually animated, rather than just a few still images (or weird knock-off bed linen prints), I'm a little more confident.
That's just pieces of Rarity's soul she had portioned off. Sunnypip is right on her way...
If a Nightmare Moon type has only just taken the magic away, we're in business. Otherwise, yeah, if it's been gone for a while, that raises a lot of questions about Princess Twilight and how the world got to that state under her and the girls' watch. And how long does this take place after the Last Problem, is my question. Right away? A generation later? Several?
I'll give it a shot even if CG is so hard for me to really get into. The background details you pointed out made me smile.
Produce placement,I mean world building like that feels pretty natural for an Equestria post-Princess Twilight.The story, as described, really makes me sick. It feels like a slap to the face.
As a comparison, I'll bring up Star Wars: The Force Awakens. I'm not invested in the franchise, but I know there was a whole expanded universe, which I would have referenced had I been in charge of the sequel trilogy. But they wanted to do something new? Fine, I can accept that. But Episode VII was basically "You know that great victory over the Empire in the original trilogy? It was for nothing. We're back to having an Empire and a Rebellion."
The Empire having a backup scheme ready to be set into motion if they were defeated? That's a perfectly reasonable plot line, and would make a great subject for a first movie in a trilogy. Just my opinion.
Just think of the things that don't exist in this new pony world. Lyra and Bon-Bon. The Cake twins. Derpy and Dinky. A lot of things, beloved by the fans, can't exist.
On the other hand, this 5461450 is a great idea. The G4 universe being primarily known as a story would be interesting, and discovering how much is true and how much is fable, while learning that friendship across tribes is, in fact, magic? A great setup for a series.
The new designs don't look half-bad, honestly. I'm not sold on the animation style, itself (in large part because I'm one of those hipsters still put out about good old-fashioned 2D losing ground to this newfangled 3D modeling) but account for that, they look very cute.
I do not like the idea of a pony being named "Izzy". I can tolerate human names on minor side characters, I do not like them in the main cast. Hopefully it's a nickname.
The bit where she gets a tennis ball stuck on her horn is pretty funny, though, that's true.
It's going to be interesting to see how much this show will reference the older one in its backstory. I suspect it's not going to be tied in it too strongly, but that some references will be present and relatively obvious -- my impression is that Hasbro is going to try to keep as much of the older fandom interest as it can without also scaring off new viewers by making it seem they need to be experts in the older show to watch this one. It's also going to be interesting to see how far in the future this is after Friendship is Magic.
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Ooh, those are some very shrewd observations.
I read somewhere that there would be a sequence set in the G4 era that explains why the world went stupid. I also think that Sunny might be more than she appears to be. She might be attracted to the big sun symbol because in another life, it adorned her flanks.
Forget plot, forget art style, forget inconsistencies with previous generations. The thing that'll make or break this is the heart of the piece and the characterization, and that all hangs upon the writing and the voice acting. If we can't handwave this as an AU two universes to the left, we're not even trying.
The pilot of Friendship is Magic had weird character choices, inconsistencies, and glaring plot holes. We don't care about any of that, because there was something deeper, a crystallization of personality and vision, that drew us in. I intend to give G5 the same chance to do that again.
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I and my Gilgamesh action figure agree with you!
I do like the callbacks that I see in the picture.
But hopefully, no matter what the continuity... I hope it has its own story to tell.
There is potential, but also room for worry.
But this is how it is with all things.
Time will tell. Sooner or later, time will tell.
It doesn't happen often, but I find myself on the side of the optimists.
It's been a lovely day on my twitter timeline that has been absolutely buried in hype and fanart already. Good fun and cute pones! Kinda what I got into pony for :b Also I thought the little clip of animation was really nice. We have no idea what the series is going to be like and how (if at all in any *meaningful* way really) G5 will tie into G4. So... not for doom and gloom just yet.
To say it with Daybreaker: "Ugh. So much black!"
Anyway. My hope would also be that G4 is a work of fiction in G5 and Sunny just a massive fangirl.
A bit like GaPJaxie's Dressing Room series.
That could be great fun.
As it is, we really don't know much right now. Surprisingly, I find myself looking forward to it anyway, especially since I've already seen so much positivity and beauty inspired by it.
Truthfully, the only thing that I reacted negatively to was "the world’s cutest flying Pomeranian."
If G4 is indeed a work of fiction in the G5 universe (and I don't see anything in the press release or the screen shot that would contradict that -- if anything, Sunny's room makes it look like she's a brony), then there's no reason this can't work. I have to assume that by the end of the movie, the three tribes will have learned to at least not outright loathe one another, so I'm more interested in what the focus of the series will be, but for now, color me intrigued.
I'll go on record that I didn't like the flash rigs. Sure, they weren't bad-looking. But after watching the movie (bad writing aside), it really threw into sharp relief how rudimentary and often awkward the flash animation was. I've seen fans do some really cool stuff with Blender pony models/rigs, and so I'm optimistic that this version will look good.
As for the plot, I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. A major theme of fiction is that the world often changes, and we have to fight problems from our past all over again. Considering the regressive attitudes and issues plaguing the world right now, that's as relevant a lesson as ever.
But this may also be too deep a read for a Children's Show for Little Girls (TM)
I will just shamelessly copy and paste what Significant Other said elsewhere regarding the upcoming G5:
perhaps part of the reason the magic is gone is because they forced it into the environment so that the world could take care of itself?
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I mean, the planet literally needs someone to manually move the sun. If magic went poof, that's kinda a problem.