“If the youth are not initiated into the tribe, they will burn down the village, just to feel its warmth.” — African proverb
I think I’ve aged more over the past four days than I have over the past thirty-three years. But thank God, we can say the title of this blog post with as much certainty that we can say anything in these trying times.
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I’m in NYC. There is much rejoicing.
We have folks dancing in the street here in NC.
Biden claims not to be an extreme leftist, but we'll see what happens. I'm a huge skeptic when it comes to politics. I'll be happy if he just doesn't mess anything important up. I'll be ecstatic if he does something good. But he is only 1/3 of the process... we'll see...
5393691
I've heard Biden's pretty centrist honestly. The leftmost Democratic candidate was probably Sanders. I'm not expecting Biden to really do much but reestablish the status quo so others can actually try and improve the country.
5393694
Honestly what i want the most is economy. The fallout from covid 19 put alot of business down and alot of people on unemployment. The government can't just print money they have to get it from somewhere. Also, our poor national debt is at 27 trillion... they have to be careful though, bills and laws that they pass can have unforseen consequences down the line.
5393695
That is a perfectly valid concern. My hope is that with better management of the pandemic, the economy will fare a little better.
5393694
And even Sanders was practically a centrist by the standards of the rest of the world.
It's a marginal improvement on your situation, but at least their will be some respect for protocol and procedure, he Biden is still a Republican in all but name, with how his records he had close ties with them in the past and how he seems to want Republicans part of his cantabile along with mostly people composed of Wall-street people, you can't let your guard down with him and you can't afford not to demand real actual radical social changes, otherwise he will just do lip service and do nothing by pretending that his hands are tided. The man is old, part of the stagnant signor Democrats and won't change his strips unless pressured to, His the George Floyd protests have shown is that Americans citizens can all rally against an injustice and corruption.
5393696
The government can do more, but can only do so much, its largely on the people. You have to not touch your face and wash your hands often. The mask when used properly can help alot, But then they sneeze in it, then adjust it with their hand, contaminating their hand, then they touch something, then someone touches that, then they touch their own mask and BOOM. POINTLESS! I've seen it at work, they sneeze in their mask and then later touch the front of it to move it... WE WORK IN FAST FOOD!!! Thats gonna get someone sick.
5393691
It's healthy to distrust politicians. The last four years show what happens when too much trust is placed on one person.
5393702
It is absolutely an airborne disease what are you talking about. It's why we wear masks. Cases are rising more due people not wearing masks than touching contaminated surfaces.
5393705
I said outside someone sneezing or coughing near you. Edit: I have to add talking now...
5393705
Ok, fair. I know it can remain it the air for a while, but its nothing compared to alot of the other airborne diseases that spread much farther and stayed in the air longer.
5393708
Just breathing could do it. All these outdoor events that you hear about that end up being COVID spreaders? It's why we wear a masks at all times and not just when we're coughing or sneezing. You are right though, that people can contaminate their masks
5393703 Yep, the entire US government system is based on not trusting politicians. Checks and balances.
Congrats, America! You did it!
5393705
https://www.umms.org/coronavirus/what-to-know/masks/wearing-mask
Cloth masks mainly keep you from unknowingly spreading the disease to others, but some studies indicate that they may help protect you from large droplets and serve as an indirect reminder to avoid touching your face.
Finally, some good fucking news.
5393703
5393716
I said skeptical not distrusting. Use your own brain to decide what to belive and what to disagree with. Dont trustt blindly, look at both sides and think things through.
5393705
Your right, I didn't meant it quite like that... edited.
I’ve been giddy since I’ve heard! Though the fact this was so narrow after everything that has happened these past four years is depressing. But, I’m overjoyed to see Biden win. At least we won’t have to put up with another four years of that would-be dictator in charge.
5393718
Look we're arguing about semantics here. We both agree that wearing masks and avoiding touching your face are both important, yeah?
5393731
sorry.
Heh, yeah... sorry, though I call it discussing, communicating, and learning. What i was trying to say is that some people aren't using the masks right. Dont touch the front of it. its the fluid in your lungs that transfers it so they belive. And I guess that is semantics...
Don’t count you’re chickens before they hatch friend
Court decides the elect, and from what I’ve heard through the grape vine the software used to tally votes were making Trump votes turn Biden
Michigan is the most notorious at the moment, as the DOJ called for a recount, and THEN I’m just finding out said software was used in up to 30 states, that number including the swing states.
We’ll see where this goes.
5393771
Well, no. The courts will decide if there is a case to be made for fraud, based on evidence. They don't decide the election.
Can Trump's legal challenges change the election?
And if the election itself were to be called into question, it would necessitate a new election. But as for the chickens, they are hatched, the bell has been run, and the fat lady is singing her heart out.
5393780
I’m just saying
If we suddenly find ourselves in the middle of war with a country, or when taxes go up 60% (if you’re in New York), or when gas prices suddenly hike up from 2 dollars to 5 or 6, I’ll be sitting there laughing because you picked him over the guy who was doing his damnedest to keep us afloat when everything was locking down. Thanks to Trump and his economy boom that he did, I actually had enough money to do... just about anything. Making checks that were 700 to 850, making an actual savings and being proud. He’s gonna lock the country down tighter than a misers purse... and you, me, anyone can’t stop that
5393782
If it will make you happy to watch the country burn, I sincerely hope the next four years makes you miserable.
We still have 70-some days whence a person who suggested injecting bleach and ultraviolet light still has the nuclear codes.
5393790
Let us hope he gets a lot of golf in.
5393702
You can absolutely spread it that way, but it's not a bacteria so it's not as bad as contaminating with e-coli or whatever. It'll get weaker over time or when spread from surface to surface to surface instead of replicating back up to full strength on each surface.
Still, yeah. Don't do that.
As an European I'm so incredibly relieved. The incredible amount of damage Trump has done on a global scale to the environment, global relations and science in general will at the very least not continue for the next four years.
Outside of the US we still see an incredibly divided nation with an enormous list of issues that are unlikely to be resolved anytime soon because it seems to be more important to your politicians to make sure that anything the "other side" tries to get done gets blocked than to compromise and actually accomplish anything. That is still very worrying. But for now, the entire world can be relieved that at least the disaster that has been Trump looks like to be finally done.
We replaced one fascist with another.
5393797
Yah ether choice was going to result in a rough 4 years no matter what. Not defending Trump, but I think the people who are "rejoicing" don't really understand what's going on.
5393812
Under no illusions here. Joe wasn't my first choice nor even my 5th. He's simply better than the alternative for the moment. When you're drowning, you don't have time to worry about the style of life preserver you're being thrown.
Now we just need to sit down with the 70 million people who supported Trump and carefully explain to them why their choice would have condemned thousands more Americans to death.
5393817
Or maybe, you can have an actual grownup conversation with them and find out why they voted for him, so that we can all come together and find a compromise so they wouldn't have to vote for him. You know, instead of acting like a condescending moral authoritarian jerk.
5393790
That's not what happened. I was actually listening to the meeting on the radio. He asked one of the medial advisors about a treatment he heard about and the doctor told him it was not viable. He didn't suggest anything cause he's not a medical expert. If you're going to criticize him (and there are things to criticize), get your facts in order. It makes his legitimate detractors look bad.
5393817
Well, no. That would be insane. We need to reassure them this doesn't mean they will all be lined up and shot. Biden didn't go into this race to lead half the country.
5393857
5393827
Well, excuse me for trying to save you from a pandemic that's already killed over three times as many Americans as the Vietnam War, I guess. I'm not suggesting some sort of revolution, nor do I want to tell you how to live your lives. I can understand and respect why people would prefer a small government, current damning socioeconomic breakdowns aside. But I would greatly appreciate it if you took medical science seriously, unlike Trump, at the bare minimum. You guys are all about protecting America, right? Then please wear masks in public, if you care about your neighbors.
5393875
To clarify: I have no arguments that the lack of response to this pandemic is a problem. I'm saying it's the wrong approach to tell a republican we had to vote in Biden or we'd all die. They have been told repeatedly by the only source they trust that the virus is a hoax and they shouldn't fear it. What they do fear is retribution from the left, who they have been told are out for blood. We need to have the whole country sit down and chill for a bit, and realize life can continue.
5393782
He allowed the genocide of the Kurds for no reason and lied about a pandemic. I'm not shallow enough to overlook widespread death just because someone threw money at me.
First of all, people would have died and will continue to die with or with out Trump. Could things have been done better, probably, but that's a cross the board issue, not just Trump. Our government in general, both state and federal (not just the electoral branch), bungled this job. I don't believe anyone would have done a better job and anyone claiming they would is likely trying to sell you something.
Second of all just to fact check you the total US and allies death in Vietnam was about 282k while the total US covid death to is about 237K. Nothing to sneeze at but hardly 3x. Unless you are talking world wide in which case it's about 1.25M, but we can't be held accountable for the mortality rate of other countries. The 237K deaths in contrast to the 9.89M cases in the US place the "crude" mortality rate at about 3-4% (the "infection" mortality rate would likely be lower). Now, this is NOT a dismissal of those who have lost their lives or lost loved ones, nor is it an excuse not to take the virus seriously. It's just to put things into context. I do take medical science seriously, which is why it irritates me to see politicians and media pun-dents use buzzwords and scary sounding statistics to panic people. Trump is not a medical professional, or is any other American president or politician. That's what Dr. Falchi is for. Most people are wearing mask. The problem is 1) people no wearing them correctly (ether due to being to old to understand or to stupid. And you cant fix ether) and 2) people not wearing them out of defiance. I do agree that the second one is a problem and I don't condone it.
At the end of the day, your words are still conveying a condescending nature about your argument. You assume because someone supports Trump that they are ether ignorant or don't care about America or its people. Maybe people voted for him because they want to economy to recover quick so that they have food on the table. Maybe they feel Biden is to feeble to handle the stress of the job and aren't fans of Harris. Maybe they feel that the democratic party in general is not equipped to handle the pandemic. You might never find out because you won't ask. This has been a problem for the past 4 years. I had hoped that after the frankly embarrassing loss in 2016 that the government would realize that they had stopped listening as start making changes to bring people together. Instead we get moral posturing and lectures where what we need is an honest give and take dialog. I know I might have come off as standoffish in this comment, but I do hope that you will reach out across the issue and talk instead of condemn.
5393896
you got proof? Because i know Biden supports China and they genocided... how do you spell it? Jyuger? Jyuger Muslims.
Literally the first time I heard about the Kurds, at least with the Muslims there’s videos of it happening
5393970
Paragraph breaks, my dude.
True, but suggesting that there was little Trump could have done or that he did the best that could have been done under the circumstances just doesn't hold up. If we had the same death rate from coronavirus as Germany, for example, then only around 44,000 Americans would be dead. If we had the same death rate as South Korea - which had its first verified case on the same day as we did - then we'd only have about 5,500 dead Americans. Yes, these both adjust for the population differences.
Sure, people die - but that doesn't change that Trump could have and should have done far more, but instead chose to actively oppose measures that were supposed to keep people safe.
Thought Prism did specifically state American deaths in the Vietnam War, however, of which there were 58,318 (including 47,434 combat deaths). So actually Thought Prism is wrong as there have actually been four times as many American deaths from the coronavirus as there were in Vietnam. However while both he was wrong and you are wrong, you are more wrong since you're bringing up something that Thought Prism didn't nor could not be reasonably interpreted as having done so since he was specific in who's deaths he was counting.
This isn't condescension. This is pointing out the fact that you are wrong.
Here's the thing: I do ask. Despite living in Massachusetts I work at a job where a lot of people are Trump supporters, and I have asked them again and again why they support Trump - and the answers are always, to put it bluntly, propaganda. Every single time it's easily falsifiable information and empty talking points, like "he built the greatest economy!" even though by no measure was the economy the greatest in world history or even American history, and in any event he didn't even build it, he only continued what Obama did.
This isn't even moral posturing. It's cold, hard numbers. Anyone who voted for Trump, voted for a man who bears direct responsibility for anywhere from tens of thousands (if we compare ourselves to Germany, France, Ireland, etc.) to hundreds of thousands (if we compare ourselves to South Korea) of preventable American deaths.
They took a look at that fact and said "tens of thousands of dead Americans is an acceptable price to pay when faced with the possibility of Joe Biden." To which it has to be asked: what is provably so devastating about Joe Biden as president that tens of thousands of American dead is preferable?
Oh, with the potential for tens or hundreds of thousands more - the Trump administration back in August added Scott Atlas, a proponent of herd immunity, to its coronavirus task force. To quickly summarize, achieving herd immunity would require about 70% of the population to be infected. Coronavirus has about a 2.6% mortality rate. Back-of-the-envelope math then tells us that the Atlas supports a position that would see a total of 6,000,000 or so Americans die from the coronavirus (America population 330,000,000; 70% of that is 231,00,000; 2.6% of that is 6,006,000). He has deemed six million Americans expendable. This is a man who Trump has put on his coronavirus task force.
Which means, by turns, that you voted for a man, Trump, who agrees with a man, Atlas, who says that six million Americans should die from this disease so that the rest of us can live with it. And by voting for him, you're telling me that you can live with that, too, or at least you find that more comfortable than the idea of Joe Biden as President.
That's not me judging you. That is, simply put, what you must believe if you voted for Trump: the potential for up to six million dead Americans is preferable to Joe Biden being president.
My fear is that Sleepy Joe won't last more than a year and then you will get Harris as president and she comes across as a bit of a hard line Marxist, but then I'm a Brit so what do I know. Look at the herd of incompetence that we have.
5394042
Biden doesn't support China. He in the 90s and 2000s supported having active trade deals with them on the theory that free markets lead to liberalization and democracy. That's not the same thing, and on top of that this was a broadly bipartisan view at the time. China as the Great Boogeyman is a relatively new thing in American politics, something that's largely only come about in the past 10-12 years or so.
Biden openly referred to the Chinese leader Xi Jinping as a "thug" during the Presidential debates, which hardly sounds like support. Biden's current economic plan is actually fairly protectionist and does not signal a return to the trade practices that the US and China had prior to Trump. The best way to describe the situation is that Biden seeks to be less heatedly aggressive and antagonistic towards China, as contrasted by Trump's usage of tariffs that simply provoke reactionary tariffs in return that, for example, have hurt US soybean growers while doing little apparent damage to China, certainly not enough for them to change their trade practices.
I believe Krack-fic Kai is referring to Trump acquiescing to Erdogan's request for the US to withdraw troops from Syria back in 2019, which he did without much warning or preparation and which meant that our Kurdish allies in Syria were left without major supporters. The immediate result was an invasion of Kurdish-held regions in Syria by Turkey, Russia, and Assad's Syrian forces.
While I am not personally aware of any genocide having taken place in the sense of thousands of Kurdish deaths, what has happened is the displacement of over 300,000 Kurds from Syria. As well, to emphasize, the Kurds are our allies in both Syria and Iraq. Abandoning them is in my personal opinion the second-blackest mark on Trump's record, exceeded only by his response to the coronavirus in America.
What, you mean, at all? Because the 1988 Halabja chemical attack - still the largest chemical attack against a civilian population in history, I believe - was carried out by Saddam Hussein against the Kurds in Iraq. It was one of the incentives for the Gulf War - and is, by the way, a reason why the Kurds are our allies, or at least were our allies. I'm not sure as to the current American-Kurdish relations at the moment after Trump's debacle, but if they're bad, you can thank Trump for that.
Have fun.
5394042
In addition to facts, RDD laid down, in a parallel universe where you have a point you still can't complain about some other things and act like that makes the first thing okay.
I voted Biden for that lack of a good option. Trump is culpable for 230,000 deaths because he lied well through April and even if we pretend he wasn't informed he's still culpable for being so foolish that he insisted it would just go away on its own and turning basic medical practices like masks into political issues.
5394046
First is the assumption that the choice is 6 million dead or Joe. I don't know if you think that Covid is just magically going to disappear with Biden as president or that he's got the solution. As I said many Trump voter understand the risk of covid, but believe that the risk of remaining in lockdown could create long term consequences. The cure cannot be worst than the disease for a lack of better terms. Many people I have talked to, both Trump supporters and non Trump supporters are becoming increasingly frustrated with the lack of plan or guidance at the state level. People want to go back to work and are willing to follow safety standards to do so but are being denied the chance to do so.
Secondly, in regards to talking to Trump supporters, I was responding to Prism as he's (I'm assuming he) the one who made the comment. I'm glad that you have talked to some Trump supporters. It does seem however that ether you conversed with perhaps a misinformed or radical supporter and got a bad impression, or you possibly dismissed what they said out of hand. I have no context as you merely said it was propoganda. That said, it is true that there is misinformation and propoganda out there, but that's true on both sides. The trick is to not stop looking. I could easily dismiss every Biden supporter as an radical socialist after talking to a few members of antifa, but that would not get me the who picture.
I would go on about logical fallacy of voter complicity, but I'm tired. I don't want to fight. I don't even know why I started this. This is a website for a show about love and tolerance and here we both are arguing about stupid politics, with stupid politicians. What a laughable mess. This needs to stop. All the name calling, the demonizations, the lectures, it doesn't bring us together. I know that Biden supporters want what they believe is best for everyone, I just want people to hopefully understand that those who supported Trump also wanted what they thought was best for everyone.
5394058
I actually agree. If Biden had picked a "better" vp, a lot more people (including myself) would have been more willing to pull the lever for him.