• Member Since 2nd Jul, 2017
  • offline last seen Sep 20th, 2023

Clopficsinthecomments


I want nothing more than to bring a smile to your face with a light-hearted clopfic! If you want to bring a smile to mine, leave a comment!

More Blog Posts19

Jul
17th
2020

I did not see this coming. · 6:18pm Jul 17th, 2020

Hey everybody,

This is probably going to be a short ramble, meant to accompany my recent story 'I did not see that coming!' to try to pull some of the anticipated spicier discussion from those comments over to here.

I'm not much of a blog writer, as many of my followers know, so please forgive the brevity of this post on an issue that likely deserves hours and hours of dissection.

For my part, I just want to start off with a very quick bullet point list, for any of my followers/detractors/curious-onlookers:

  • I am not a national socialist, nazi, neo-nazi, fascist nor do I believe in any other extreme political ideologies.
  • I do not support any of the above, nor any other extreme political ideologies. I think ideologies are bad in general, as they remove the requirement to form your own critically reasoned beliefs, and evaluate other people's beliefs point by point.
  • While I do probably lean conservative in political and social philosophy (strange in a clopfic writer, I know), the core tenet of my belief structure is in individual rights, responsibilities and equal treatment under the law. I do not think gender, race, religions, orientations, are not windows into any person's soul or their hearts. Discrimination should never occur under these subject headings! Only each individual person's actions and choices should form our opinions of them.

Phew, ok. With that out of the way... (never thought I might need to actually say out loud, 'I am not a nazi'), a brief note about why I did this. (Honestly, I considered not writing any blog post about this at all. Even having to defend myself/my story feels like a defeat in a way, which it probably is, in the long run.)

...

I'm probably on the older side of the fandom, a 33-year old who cut his teeth on sites like 4chan back when youtube didn't even exist yet. I was there for the 100K post number get on /b/. Internet culture had always been an escape for me, back in the days before social media, and the pick-up of internet by everyone and their grandma through facebook.

It had always been a wild and rough place, with a freedom of speech and thought, and all the goods and bads that came with that. That was the era that I grew up in, where you might just as easily meet a serial killer on the b board as you might see a funny Millhouse meme. The wild west. No protective covering for your mind.

Looking back, there was probably some stuff that it would have been wiser not to consume (gore, porn, and other shocking images likely had a real psychological effect on my young mind). But at least I had the choice, the option as to whether I wanted to consume it or not... there was no hand-holding or protection.

Now times have changed a lot. Over the last 16 years, the internet has become as much a part of the public forum as your actual town-square. Perhaps even more so. But throughout, that wild-west atmosphere that allowed exposure to a radically diverse set of ideas and opinions remained... until recently.

Over the last few years, I have watched with dismay as a new set of voices has begun to gain more and more prominence online. People who believe that certain opinions, voices, images should be canceled. Shut down. Hunted down and eliminated. This is deadly.

I want to be clear, this is distinct from the concept that an idea, opinion, or artwork is bad - that's a natural and healthy thing. Bad ideas should be exposed to the light of day and allowed to burn away under the intense gaze of many people forming their own opinions and discarding them to the ashbin of history. What you cannot do, is try to make those decisions and opinions on behalf of other people, believing that only you know what is best for them and society, and then try to shield them from those ideas anyway. Not only does it not work (making a thing hidden tends to give it a mystique, and allows it to fester) but there is the far greater danger of setting up an intelligentsia that determines what is and is not acceptable speech. If you are reading this and think that isn't a fatal conceit, or you believe it is actually prudent to let some people make decisions for others without their permission, I really don't know what I can say to change your mind. I only hope that a review of history will show just how flawed that experiment has been in the past.

The other argument I hear is around harm. You don't want to allow speech that permits harm. That's sensible. But this too must be tempered very carefully as a tool to silence. What is harmful for one, may not be harmful for another. You must weigh the harm of speaking against the harm of not speaking, and you must once again avoid making one set of opinions be the arbiter of what constitutes harm. The United States (not my home country, but a bastion of experimentation around individual rights like freedom of expression) sets what I think is a noble compromise: once speech, expression, art has a clear 'call to action', it can be subject to censorship or review.

In other words: 'I hate peanut butter and jelly' is a perfectly fine opinion. 'We need to pipe-bomb the peanut butter factory' is not.

Similarly: 'All cops are bastards', not a sentiment I agree with, but the ability to say it must be protected! 'Murder the pigs' - no.

Which brings us to the issue at hand.

Aryanne. Our my little pony Nazi-horse.

First off, I want to make it clear that I think she is very clearly a troll-meme character. Just like Pepe the frog, the reaction-face comics, and all the other detritus of our internet-age. A playful and ridiculous juxtaposition of something so incredibly horrible with something so incredibly cute that it creates a humor of ridiculousness that can't be denied. She is a probe meant to poke the overly-sensitive so that others can laugh at their outrage. I'm very willing to admit that one of my flaws is that I love troll-humor, and I especially love when people overreact. In this, I have always found Aryanne, Pepe, and even memes that are meant to poke me (boomerisms, sunglasses wearing white dude, bible-thumpers etc.) hilarious. I see about as much 'real' nazi-ism in Aryanne as you might expect from a colorful cartoon horse: none.

But I'll concede that's my opinion. And I can at least understand where people are coming from when it comes to the character and what it would mean if she was real. A real nazi symbol. But even in this case, it doesn't pass the tests that should allow her to be censored, banned, concealed.

If she was real:
1. Regarding suppression of the 'dangerous idea': She should be exposed to the light of day. The ideas of nazism are universally rejected by an overwhelming amount of the population. The bogey-man of neo-nazi groups and their ilk are truly nothing more than that. Whenever confronted in the marketplace of ideas, of honest, open debate, the ideas of national socialism... things like eugenic racial superiority, overwhelming government control of censorship, private enterprise production, and of an aggressive posture of re-taking property on a national scale are easily confronted and dealt with. Even if Aryanne fans were supporting these views (they're not), the artwork should be up so that those opinions can be exposed and flayed for all to see in the public square.

2. Regarding the potential for harm: We must evaluate on the standard of a call to action. If an image says, in earnest, that we should kill all the jews, or exterminate the mentally disabled, it should be deleted/restricted/controlled. But everything else, including symbology, ironic humor, inappropriate or shocking humor, or other things that are just generally in bad taste does not rise to the level of a call to action.

So why, then? Why are we tearing ourselves apart on this issue?

There is such a huge risk in terms of a slippery slope. (A quick aside: for those of you who might quickly state that the slippery slope is a logical fallacy, I caution you that it is only a fallacy if it is not true. There is such a thing as a fallacy fallacy, in which you ignore a pertinent argument because it falls under the heading of a generic fallacy.) Already, I have heard calls for the removal of foalcon next (another topic for another day), then rape, then snuff and murder. The risk is real. And even if you agree with all of the above calls, can you not see that eventually the wheel of censorship will fall on you? Whims and times change, particularly in this era of 'social-justice', and what you might enjoy today will certainly end up on tomorrow's list of the unmentionable, regardless of how trite it may seem now.

And it isn't healthy. Not for our community, nor even for those who hate seeing the images. The only way for us to grow as people and cultures is to engage with one another, not cast each other onto soviet/fascist-like lists that ascribe them as irredeemable! What if your dissent on a controversial image changes someone's mind about the whole issue? What if exposing someone to uncomfortable ideas girds them with the ability to confront real hatred and dangerous ideology at a future point in their life? So far, in the experimentation of thousands of years of human civilization, we've found that equipping people with as much intellectual freedom as possible has been the best solution we've found to create more happiness.

Not the perfect solution. But the best.

So, I'm already starting to ramble, so I'm gonna wrap this up. There are thousands of fantastic arguments out there (on either side, though I disagree with the pro-censorship side entirely), and you are likely already experiencing them in forums and discords and chats scattered throughout the community.

Last important point: I'm not usually the kind of guy to take a very vocal stand on things. I've kept quiet through much of my personal life as I've seen more and more of my voice taken away... at work, where I'm not allowed to be religious or supportive of certain traditional social norms... then in entertainment and my media, where movies constantly remind me that as a white, cishet male I am inherently evil... then in my video-game culture where similarly I am part of a toxic subculture (insert 'I just wanted to play Vidya games.' meme here). And I probably wouldn't have said a dang thing... until it came to pony.

I thought this was the one place - a place where grown men like colorful cartoon horses, that people would understand that diversity really means everything goes. Even the stuff that we vehemently disagree with. Even if it hurts or cringes. But then all this stuff happened with Aryanne, making her the focal point and a lever to admit political correctness, cancel-culture, and censorship into our beautiful community.

I did not see this coming.

But I found my voice... I just wanted to look at pictures of cute ponies. But now I'm fighting for free-speech. I've been very happy to see many others, even those who do think Aryanne is a real threat, defending her for anti-censorship's sake. It has given me great hope about our society's future, that we will actually start drawing lines around our freedoms.

Thanks for listening.

A last note: I want to make it clear - I also support and fully appreciate those who feel the opposite way on the issue. While I don't believe that you should be able to censor Aryanne, I do think you should be able to make your case for it as strongly and as loudly as you see fit. I recognize that you come at this from a different opinion and mindset, and part of the whole goal of anti-censorship is to expose your ideas to the marketplace as well. I urge everyone, from both sides of the argument to be excellent to one another, confronting each other in comments with vigor... but also with respect. We're all trying to figure out this complicated world together.

And, in the end, if my stand has soured you regarding me to the extent that you find me, my work, or even my friendship unpalatable... I am saddened and sorry, but I do understand, and assure you that, at least on my side, there are no hard feelings.

Clops

Comments ( 188 )

Good blog dude.

Man all I want to do is write stories about cartoon horses.

People should stop taking fiction so damn seriously.

Sorry but I just skimmed but what happened?

Wronk #3 · Jul 17th, 2020 · · 2 ·

Wow that was a big read, but good on you man that was a good and sadly necessary post

Also I haven't read the story and I think it's been taken down, is there anywhere else I can read it?

5311444

5311456

5311484


You guys are all so damned fast! Fic is still auto-approving, should be up shortly.

I agree with you my friend, but unfortunately we're going to lose on this issue and many more. Eventually they are going to go after Fimfiction itself and we wont have much choice in the matter. I appreciate your blog on the matter but we cant win. It comes down to that they want to cancel us and we dont want to cancel them(not that id ever argue we should)
A siege can only go on for so long until the siegers win, and I doubt we'll see reinforcements.
Good Show buddy

Wydril #6 · Jul 17th, 2020 · · 10 ·

5311505
It's important to remember the population dynamics at work. Cancel culture is largely rooted in Twitter, I think we could agree (though obviously other social media are involved as well). According to several pieces of data, only 20% of Americans use Twitter in any capacity, whether just reading one tweet from their favorite singer up to being a national pundit. 10% of the users have been found to be responsible for 80% of Twitter posts. This comes down to 2% of the population but probably less being in favor of cancel culture and actively using it as a weapon to persecute and silence people.

That other 98% of the population is not thrilled with the status of "potential next cancel victim", especially since tearing down historic statues for one reason or another has shown there is no time limit to how far back your cancel crime can be. It is indeed a siege, but the situation is not as dark as you fear.

The world has been depressing lately. This blog gives me hope.

5311546
Well, that 2% has an inordinate amount of power over the internet and the public square.

Wydril #10 · Jul 17th, 2020 · · 3 ·

5311568
It does, but that power is a paper tiger. The only reason it has any power is that people are afraid of being canceled themselves for not immediately submitting to it, ad infnitium. Once someone makes the accusation, others are required to support it or the accusation will be made against them as well, but that's all that it is; an accusation. All it takes is one interruption to the cycle of canceling people and that power is shattered.

Cancel culture and the Twitter mob rule through fear and use it to silence political opponents and anyone they dislike. The more they do it, the less fear it inspires, until a point where these fascists no longer have that illusion of power. Everyone deserves a voice, even them, but they don't have the right to take that voice from others.

5311556
I am so glad to have given that, to even one person. That makes the whole thing worth it in my eyes.

Those were some wise clopwords :twilightsmile:

5311494
what is the fic and what is going on?

Sorry, my dude. I normally like your stuff but I couldn't even get through the description without rolling my eyes.

"It was so easy to get called a facist. All she had to do was parrot Nazi beliefs and talking points. Obviously Aaron gave her the benefit of the doubt, it was so easy to be unfairly called a facist- maybe she totally didn't believe all the stuff she said!"

I get you're trying to speak out against cancel culture and say and that not every conservative is a facist or a Nazi. I get that, I really do. But maybe your point would have been. better served with something other than a story about the literal Nazi horse and a whole essay about how it's unfair that she's being called a facist.

5311610
That's cool, no hard feelings at all.

It was actually supposed to be a setup to subvert the notion that you 'shouldn't judge a book by its cover', because in this case, the cover was actually 100% accurate, but that doesn't pay off until later. Comedy needs a bit of delay to land harder... not that I'm claiming I'm good at writing comedy, it could have just been a bad joke.

Thanks for the comment, hope you'll like the next fic!

Evil wins when good men do nothing. You are a good person doing less than nothing.

5311546
Twitter delenda est.

5311618
So like, nega-things?

Jokes aside, I understand your feeling. I feel the same way about that quote, I think it has a lot of truth in it. But I have to stay true to my own conscience, formed by my own life and upbringing. In this case, it clearly whispers to me to resist the reactionary notion to censor.

Well stated! I don't really have much to add to the conversation except to thank you for providing this blog as a preface, and for approaching this as level-headed as possible. Additionally, troll humor kills me sometimes as well :rainbowlaugh:

Wydril #21 · Jul 17th, 2020 · · 4 ·

5311622
I agree, but actually for different reasons. It has helped reduce "conversations" about things down to whatever hot-take you can fit in 160 characters or less. There's incentive to make a short, witty, biting comment rather than a thoughtful criticism or engagement with an idea, and it strongly forms and reinforces echo chamber mentality. The cancel culture mob can be de-fanged without getting rid of Twitter, but the way Twitter itself is set up harms discourse.

5311505
Well, with a defeatist attitude like that then we really are doomed.
Buck up, soldier. This war's not over yet.

vorxil #23 · Jul 17th, 2020 · · 2 ·

Well said.

Say no to censorship, regardless of source and form.

Speak freely, listen freely, ignore freely. Nowhere in real life can this be made more possible than on the Internet.

:moustache:

Why did you do that? I'm really sad to see you be part of such a horrid project if you want to post nazi stuff get it out of this fandom

Rakdar #25 · Jul 17th, 2020 · · 4 ·

5311657
>Whines about artist expressing themselves.

Clearly you are the epitome of quality opinions

5311661
well hat speech is not freedom of speech it is awful

5311631
I agree with those points as well. I got off that ride in 2017 when every single account I had had the conversations with endless navel-gazing of "how did we ever end up with Trump in office?" This was across a normie IRL account, a gaming account, a furry troll account, a pony RP account, and several others.

The Fediverse (Mastodon, GNU Social, Pleroma, etc...) tries to be a better social media by increating the post length limit and letting each server set up its moderation policy. Unfortunately, most users these days are Twitter and Tumblr burnouts and they brought over their toxic cultures.

Alright, normally I'm kinda chill but no I can't agree that people; and these are people as much as the media says the Nazi and the Fascist aren't, who say that I and my whole family should die because we have a permanent tan should have a place to speak. If these people stepping out to see if their stance is wrong and were actually engaging in debate yes they might have some reason to listen to them talk, but that's sadly not the case. To the modern Fascist there is only a forum to find more people that think like them.

And as for Aryanne, if she is supposed to be joke, could you tell me the punchline? Cause from where I sit I'm not laughing.

Rakdar #29 · Jul 17th, 2020 · · 6 ·

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Freedom of speech includes the right to say things that make people uncomfortable. Like "Gays are people", and "Communists should be shot on general principle" and "Obama did 9/11". The point of freedom of speech is to be able to say things that the general community doesnt like. Because its pointless to have a rule that allows everyone to say things that nobody finds offensive. By its very nature, what you define as hate speech, is free speech. You saying that i shouldnt write about a nazi horse and her wacky adventure, that i should be punished for doing so, is defending me doing the exact same thing to the people and groups i dont like.

https://m.

Bravo clops! Bravo! You might not be familiar to doing blogs but I really believe this is one best nuanced takes on this topic. So thank you.

If I may take on a part to talk about.

In other words: 'I hate peanut butter and jelly' is a perfectly fine opinion. 'We need to pipe-bomb the peanut butter factory' is not.

Similarly: 'All cops are bastards', not a sentiment I agree with, but the ability to say it must be protected! 'Murder the pigs' - no.

Yes! I tried making this point elsewhere, and failed probably, but freedom of speech doesn’t protect you from just saying anything.

Poor Aryanne. Shit didn’t want to deal with this. To bring it back to how Pepe was trying to be reused as a racist symbol, this is also similar to how white nationalists are tying to take over 👌 despite it being used in sign language and every kid down the block.

It’s was recently banned from COD: Warzone. Now I’m ok with that, for now, I do think it’s a inherently bad decision because it’s giving it power.

https://m.

There is a solution here we’re just not seeing.

But I know not letting people take Aryanne is the first step. If only she didn’t have a swastika on her butt in my own opinion then maybe it wouldn’t be so easy for them.

Now after really nuanced blog let’s see if both sides can can get along and agree with that.

Once again bravo clops!

5311664
It's true, sadly. That little dopamine hit from getting a like or a retweet or a follow is too attractive, and some people just go all-in chasing the next hit. I said this on another blog, but we as humans are not prepared to deal with this 24/7 information flow, either physically or mentally.

R5h
R5h #32 · Jul 17th, 2020 · · 22 ·

5311673
The freedom of speech enshrined in our government says that the government can't restrict our speech. Does FiMFiction look like a government to you?

Moreover, promoting Nazi content like this horribly misguided story (misguided at best) pushes out people who stand to lose the most from Nazism being normalized. That pretty negatively affects their 'freedom of speech', I would say!

CitC, here's an idea: if you think free speech is so important, write a story about the protesters who've been arrested en masse (arrested by the government, not banned from a horse site) because they were protesting their right to exist and live without the police murdering them. Write about donating to some bail funds! But when the only free speech you speak up for is the freedom for Nazis to be visibly horrible - and for privately owned spaces to be forced to tolerate them - then you need to think seriously about what it is you're actually supporting.

Since I’m seeing it here,

Cancel Harvey Weinstein: Good

Cancel Jonny Depp: Bad

It’s hurt and helped lives so it’s not inherently an evil thing or a bad thing but that’s my personal opinion. I’ve seen it go both ways.

https://m.

Despite being a “pro cancel culture” guy (I think it can be used for more good against people like Harvey, who would of kept abusing if he wasn’t called out on it) I agreed with most of what the anti cancel culture group had to say.


If someone is looking to “cancel” someone then clearly there head space is in a wrong spot. The “canceling” should happen naturally from people personally and not something you wanna achieve form the get go. Those who spoke out against Harvey didn’t intend to cancel Harvey, it happened because they said there piece and that was the nature outcome. Amber Turd didn’t want that. She wanted to attack Jonny Depp.

Rakdar #34 · Jul 17th, 2020 · · 6 ·

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Freedom of speech enshrined as part of the U.S. constitution is one thing, Freedom of speech as a principle is another. Im not arguing what any of these websites are doing is illegal, though in some cases it might be, my argument is that its immoral and counter to freedom of speech as a principle.

Nothing is preventing you from whinging and whining about muh nazis as far as i can tell. On top of that there are places in the world where you dont have freedom of speech, and speaking the no-no words will put you in jail. Most of the EU for example.

People on the left have been pushing privately owned spaces to be more inclusive through laws for decades. Its funny to watch you all suddenly become Libertarians the second your opponents start shooting for their own shit. Where were you when title 9 happened, where were you when EEO became a thing? You cant put these restrictions on people, and then the second it goes against you you change your tune and suddenly youre a libertarian and expect people to take you seriously

5311702
I dont think Weinstein did anything wrong

5311711
...you have to be joking right?

Edit: who the fuck did I reply too?

5311719
Cool. I won’t listen to anything else you have to say.

I generally can’t believe someone will defend a convicted sex offender. So I’m just going ignore they exist.

...who I was replying too? I don’t remember. Huh...

R5h
R5h #39 · Jul 17th, 2020 · · 5 ·

5311709
There's a difference between not letting black people into a place (or gay people or trans people or so on, but let's say black people for this example), and not letting Nazis into a place.

Black people can't stop being black people, and moreover, being a black person is not fundamentally about treating other groups as inferior.

Being a Nazi is fundamentally about treating other groups as inferior - all the groups I just mentioned, actually. Letting such a person into a space necessarily pushes the other people out. Not only that, you can stop being a Nazi.

So no, the counterexample you're trying to use doesn't hold up.

Also wow you actually believe Weinstein was innocent? Lol

publiq #40 · Jul 17th, 2020 · · 1 ·

5311709
Thank you for saying this. As I've said elsewhere in the distant past, a culture of free speech is more important than a law of free speech. One of the major problems of the internet is its winner-take-all nature that appeals to the ancap crowd. It wasn't a government who banned your account; it was only banned from the only worthwhile video hosting site because the advertizers didn't like it. The more meaningful fragmentation and competition there is in any market, the less of an issue the acceptable content policies of any player are. Look up the Fediverse as a decentralized Twitter alternative. Each individual server has a different moderation policy: some refuse to network with others because their policies are too different. None of them are so dominant that their rules are the de-facto rules of the network.

5311728

Also wow you actually believe Weinstein was innocent? Lol

I’m so glad people like that don’t exist. I’m pretty sure my faith in humanity would plummet.

So glad...

5311733
Exactly right.

The culture is what's being debated here, not the law.

On the topic of your age, I would actually be kind of curious how this issue breaks down along that range. I'm in my early 30's too, and remember those wilderness years of the internet where one of the biggest draws was the anonymity that many forums allowed. No one's actual identity was really linked to most screen names, and that allowed people to say things that they'd be too scared to say in real life out of fear of reprisal or attacks. And I know that as soon as some people read that last sentence, they will immediately decry how that gave space to Nazi's and hate groups to spread their message. And yes, it did, unfortunately. But it also allowed other marginalized groups to meet and gather and realize they weren't alone in the world.

To everyone who desires to see anyone they disagree with silenced, I would ask this. Do you know why the LGBTQ movement grew to see the mass acceptance and growth that it has in the past two decades? Do you know why civil movements ranging from the Arab Spring, to Free Hong Kong, to BLM have been able to gain traction? Do you know why we can gather here and other places and talk about how much we like My Little Pony, and how much we'd like to fuck cuddle a bunch of cartoon horses?

It's because the internet is the last bastion of free speech in the world, where people have a safe place to reach out to others and work to change the world. And that can be good or bad depending on how it's used, but that's just how life is. Rainbows won't light up the sky unless you let it rain, and shiny apples sometimes come with worms.

To attempt to silence every voice you disagree with isn't noble or just. It's fascism. It's exactly what you claim to be against, and discovering the fact that so many people can't understand that hypocrisy is more frightening than any pandemic or economic collapse could ever hope to be.

Rakdar #44 · Jul 17th, 2020 · · 12 ·

5311722
I dont think he did anything wrong. Whether or not he plead guilty to a crime is irrelevant.
5311728
Tell that to Black hebrew isrealites. And since were on the topic of choice, Trans race is a thing so being black is a choice, and Being gay is a choice. Just like being pro-freedom of speech is a choice, or even believing in a national socialist german worker's party. These are all choices. Personally I think you shouldnt be punished for any of them, and to punish one but not the others is to reveal your bias and remain inconsistent.

R5h
R5h #45 · Jul 17th, 2020 · · 14 ·

ClopicsInTheComments: I wanna restate this point, since it's possible you didn't wanna get into it earlier—since I was responding to another user and all.

Why is it that the only kind of free speech you're speaking up in favor of, is the kind of free speech for Nazis to espouse their horrible nonsense? Like, you say this:

And it isn't healthy. Not for our community, nor even for those who hate seeing the images. The only way for us to grow as people and cultures is to engage with one another, not cast each other onto soviet/fascist-like lists that ascribe them as irredeemable!

Where's the part where you tell Nazis that they're wrong? If the point of all this freedom of speech is to cast Nazism into the light so sunlight can disinfect it, why aren't you disinfecting? At what point of your plan do you tell a Nazi "your ideology is horrible, and here's why, and you should believe something else"? Because if you're only allowing Nazis into your space, enabling them, but not engaging with or challenging them? Then that's the unhealthiest thing for our community that I can imagine.

And I want to emphasize an earlier point: you didn't make a blog post in support of Black Lives Matter, a group which actually has people being arrested for using their First Amendment rights to protest—not banned from websites, but arrested by the government that's supposed to actually guarantee free speech. You certainly didn't make a porn story about a racial justice activist. And for all that you say we shouldn't just call each other fascists or communists, you certainly haven't made any broad gestures in favor of communists. No, the 'marginalized group' you chose to speak up for was Nazis.

(And those are heavy sarcasm quotes. Nazis do not count as a marginalized group, for reasons I have previously mentioned on this blog.)

Your support is not evenhanded, and that means it doesn't come across as you supporting free speech for everyone. It comes across as you supporting free speech for Nazis only.

I think my biggest question at this point is whether Harry Potter, Worm, Avengers, or warhammer 40k are getting similar treatment. All of which have nazi or reskinned nazi characters, and in the case of Warhammer, the Nazis are the good guys. Ish. Sort of.
My little pony is weird for having justified racism, a biological caste system, and still having recognizable American morals, more or less.

Wydril #47 · Jul 17th, 2020 · · 8 ·

5311700
Those would be the rioters assaulting people, setting fire to buildings, and recording all of it to post online, right? Freedom of speech and gathering to protest does not protect acts of violence and calls to harm. For anyone wrongly arrested in the middle of those riots, the ACLU is on the case. Also, when you get this hysterical about pony stories, it's hard to take you seriously. Write your own stories if it's that important to you, but tilting at windmills is not debating anything.

5311767
If you think the humans in Warhammer were the good guys, you were reading it wrong.

They most definitely are not. Everyone in that universe is fucked. It just that one race looks like us and has cool armor.

5311777
Hence the waffling. I suppose it is more the protagonist then, at least in most of the content i've seen.
I guess good guys has to match your moral preconceptions?

5311757
I do attack Naziism whether I see it... Luckily, I really haven't seen it. I've yet to see one comment on here, or db or in the divorce I frequent that actually supports anything like a Nazi ideal.

I have had very intense and passionate debates with people who were, in my opinion, being racist, or bigoted. The fact that those chats aren't public shouldn't mean anything. I don't think someone should have to establish some bonafides in order to have a different argument of their's have credit. That's a dangerous road too, where we think we can discount someone if they haven't achieved some sort of social credit 'rightthink' score.

In other words, even handedness, even though I feel I am as such, should have no bearing. THIS is the issue I chose to use my voice on, because in my view it was the most pressing one. If I feel that I'm seeing a lot of Naziism, racism or bigotry on this site I would similarly call it out publicly, or would like to think I would.

Although I don't need to talk about it at all, because it's not relevant to the issue at hand, you have been very polite so I will give you an answer:

As to BLM, I am very much NOT a supporter of that organization. To be clear, I think peaceful protest against police brutality is a great and noble thing, and a key part of the freedoms we enjoy. Overall I think that real police brutality is actually a very rare thing, and the situation is overblown, I do think there are situations that meet criminal standards of behavior by very very few law enforcement officers. And from what I've seen, they are quickly brought to justice and exposed to the light of scrutiny.

From what I've seen of BLM, they have been a destabilizing element hat looks to villify all police, encourage racial division and strife, promote divisive ideologies, and who have incited violence rather than protest.

If I did, i would choose to support whatever unlawfully incarcerated protestors you are referring to via a different source than BLM, and carefully do my research to make sure I was not being coopted. That said if you want to talk about some cases, I'd be interested.

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