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Toffee Bean


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Jun
11th
2020

People are Retarded · 5:33pm Jun 11th, 2020

The whole black lives matter has gone a bit too far. Defunding the police doesn't solve the issue. In fact, it makes things worst, you get rid of the police and well guess what crime would increase and they think the police are brutal, but I believe they will find out real quick criminals can be too. These are also the people who think banning guns stops criminals from getting guns illegally, so they won't even be able to defend themselves(there are melee weapons, but I still don't think they can hold their own, at least 1 on 1 that is).

These are by far the fucking dumbest people I've seen that aren't science deniers and a bigger threat too(in a group at least). I normally not an outspoken person when it comes to this kind of thing, but I think many people will agree with me that getting rid of the police is a dumb idea that would only create chaos. A lot more people would die too so, in the end, they think they would be saving lives, but in reality, they just cause more deaths.

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Comments ( 49 )

I agree.

Defunding the police is not the same as abolishing law enforcement.

5282545 Give them an inch, they take a mile.

Edit: So having the police underpaid, understaffed might as well be classified as disband

It is kind of goofy. Apparently someone lost their job because they said that they believed that ALL lives matter. Can you believe that?

5282557 Sad part is I do...

5282554
Police is currently overfunded and given military gear I think they’ll be fine if we redirect some of their budget towards social workers and social programs which diminish crime and help people.

5282559 Yeah, it is a shame.

Like I understand that there is some problems with there being prejudice in the police force against members of the black community, but does that mean that people of other backgrounds matter less? Or because some acting out of hate does that mean that more hatred will solve the problem?

I understand a desire for justice, but you can't put out a fire with more fire.

Fortunately there are some protestors that realize that. I heard that the protest in Idaho was actually peaceful.

5282584 So basically make it where the police can't hand anything major such protest that goes out of control or a hostage situation, or basically anything that fucking involves guns. Police do more than you think.

5282599
I didn’t say that. You seem to take every position to their most extreme conclusions to dismiss them. I don’t know if you apply this logic to every change proposals you hear but it’s a pretty absurd way of evaluating ideas.

5282637 Not unless its true and defund police leads to a very bad place. But yeah it does lead to a police force that can handle almost nothing.

Tell me what military equipment they use that they shouldn't, because I can't really think of any they shouldn't?

5282688 So take away their protection? So if something bad happens they have nothing?

Plus police officers die too, yet this movement doesn't even talk about the black officers who die.

Tell me this would a movement happen if it was white people killed by black copS?

5282688 criminals can and sometimes do make bombs. That's the whole reason bomb squads exist

Honestly people are complaining about police funding yet there are politicians who are payed a ridiculous sum of money from our taxes and even retain a certain amount even after they leave politics.

When this country stated the only money the politicians actually had was money they earned from their own businesses.

5282674
Also don’t you know that by using your logic, funding police leads to a very bad place. First they ask for guns then they get armored vehicules? Surely, they’ll get predator drones and then what? They’ll just be able to take power and america will be under the rule of an autoritarian police force. Give them an inch and they will take a mile.

You can argue anything is bad with this line of arguement.

5282698 I agree with the whole money issue. The thing is 90% cops try and do the right thing. That's my issue people want to blame the whole group.

5282700 Your logic makes even less sense, because you want to make cops sitting ducks. So them having the tools to do their job and do it safely is bad? All you thinking about is how a few bad cops are. Most cops try to do the right thing. They become a cop to make the world a better place not destroy it.

5282696
5282698
Violent crime in america is at one of it’s lowest point in history. The police don’t need armored vehicules. Even as we speak i see no news of bombing by the protestors or anyone in america. The closest i’ve seen is one Missouri guy who got killed by the FBI during coronavirus while planning the bombing. He never got to the bombing but even if he did, armored vehicules wouldn’t have been useful to protect the building he was considering.

5282716 So when it does happen either A) people get killed because the cops can't do anything or B) the military gets involved. Plus it's an armored vehicle, not a tank.

5282707
My logic is that police get high cost equipment that they use for situations where they don’t need them. It’s that they get equipment without the proper training and end up doing more harm than good because those are dangerous equipment and there is a way and a time to use them. My logic is that we could use different tiers of more specialized intervenants to deal with cases of mental health and socio economics problem to reduce criminality and actually help people.

Also, yeah, there are good cops. I know some and I know they genuinely want to help. Yeah they also need equipment to do their job. I don’t think we should just equip cops with a badge and a stick and that it would just be fine. You see, me and the idea of defunding the police is more complicated than the caricature you are painting. I would appreciate it if you wouldn’t decide what i believe in and characterize my beliefs to make a straw man argument.

Thanks.

5282726
1-I didn’t say tank.
2-yeah maybe the military should get involved if the threat require such an extent of force.
3-At some point you need to ask yourself if the equipment is pertinent if there is no current need for it. Spending money for Equipment that might be useful for a problem that could maybe happen in the future isn’t wise if you can spend that money to solve real current problems.

5282743 That's funny because you basically saying it's not the gear they have that creates the problem. Defunding can also lead to less training so it just makes things worst. With that increasing funding for training would be the way to go base on your logic.

Plus a strawman argument, bullshit. A police armored vehicle is protection and I don't even think it would pass the military test so it can't really be classified as one when it would fail. Plus I never assumed what you believed I was simply making a point, that an armored vehicle is a defensive vehicle not offensive.

5282716 Like Abbilden said, it isn't a tank.

Also apparently you've forgotten (or maybe you're too young to remember) but there are terrorist organizations out there that want to see America burn to the ground. You may not hear much about them now, but just because the news is so obsessed with this virus outbreak and protests doesn't mean those groups have stopped.

Second, you don't want the military to be the ones to take over for the police. You might think that this big dog with teeth that is barking is really annoying, but once the military is involved you've swapped out the big dog for a bigger dog that will actually tear your throat out. In the case of the latter the owner (those in power) won't care who is complaining so long as the dog doesn't turn on them.

5282756
A straw man:

All you thinking about is how a few bad cops are.Most cops try to do the right thing. They become a cop to make the world a better place not destroy it.

Another one:

So basically make it where the police can't hand anything major such protest that goes out of control or a hostage situation, or basically anything that fucking involves guns. Police do more than you think.

You’ll notice i don’t actually say those things, but it’s easy for you to claim i hold those positions while i don’t.

Yeah cop don’t get the training to use those equipment. Those are swat and military equipment. Regular police officers don’t need those equipment but they get them, don’t take the training to use them and get people hurt.

5282761
Point to me exactly where i said they where tanks.

5282761
Are you talking about the organizations that the military is fighting in other countries? Are you talking about the organizations the FBI is specifically tasked To deal with? Where do you think local police officers fit in dealing with this kind of terrorists organizations that they need those equipment?

5282772 That's the thing if you wasn't looking at a few cops why would you want defunding then, because bad cops is what caused the whole defunding idea?

The thing is what happens to say a group of protesters have guns and the police have no protection a lot of police departments still used old cop cars that aren't bulletproof. Why is it such a big deal they have a truck that is armored they normally don't drive them around they only use them when needed.

I'll admit the gun part might be a bit extreme, but that's really all there is that you can say is a straw man.

5282785
Most cops are not trained or ready to deal with mentally ill people. Moreover, because they are trained to deal with dangerous and violence, they have a mindset which is useful if dealing with dangerous criminals but this mindset impair them to work with situations where violence isn’t necessary. For example, cops must use any force necessary to make sure nobody get their gun. The 75 years old man that was pushed kinda made a move to touch the officer weapon and it explains his reaction. Had there been some sort of designed unarmed armored law enforcement to speak to instead of an armed officer, this situation could have been prevented. We can make the police focus on the situations appropriate by having other organizations deal with those situations they are not effective for. To fund those organisations, we can take money that the police don’t need since they wouldn’t take care of those situations as they do now. For ambiguous situations, the police will be able to work with those organizations which should lead to better results.

More Black Lives have been lost in these "protests" do to their violence. They have lost their own message

5282794 So you want them to be armed with no guns then? Doesn't seem like a smart idea to make it where the police can't enforce the law which is part of their job. Say a cop starts getting shot at now he has to call backup that does have a weapon and either he gets killed and the criminal gets away or the criminal still gets away but the cop lives. Both of those aren't good outcomes and you don't really want the military coming in. You think cops are brutal the military is going to be more so, although crime rate will go down, I'll admit that.

Hmm It seems the conversation needs to go back to a normal one for a bit. Everytime folks talk about this cooler heads seem to vanish.

5282817

So you want them to be armed with no guns then?

Not every roles cops take needs a gun. I gave you an example of how having one guy who isn’t armed can then take a role more effectively than armed cops and reduce unneeded violence without endangering the officer’s life (who would have been armored and surrounded with armed cops). Of course, you wouldn’t send 10 unarmed « cops » to deal with a school shooter. You would send the armed cops trained to deal with violence. As I also said, you could send two cops with different trainings. We can’t deal with every problems the same way and specialisation makes better results. It is also something that is already done to an extent. For example, SWAT units are really effective and give good results in their respective speciality. However when you have cops without the specific SWAT training that try to use SWAT equipment and lead a SWAT-like operation, it gets ugly quick. They throw a flash bang, jump in the building and shout to get on the ground. However, because the people are blinded and deafened they don’t and the police shoot at them for resisting arrest. We can’t train all police officers to be able to effectively lead all those different operations. Those are complicated, require different mindsets and knowledge and have huge consequences if done poorly. We can’t make godlike geniuses cops that can do everything, we can make good specialised « cops » and dispatch them at the appropriate places.

5282840 So the unarmed cops become a reliability to the armed cops if any gunfight happens. Plus when did I say anything about it being a response to a shotting I said if it escalated to a shotting. Cops have pulled people over and got shot and killed before and you might say just have those guys armed. That just doesn't work out because cops, for the most part, are alone. Either A) they all keep their weapons or B) you hire more cops which would need more funding and a high chance of getting bad cops.

5282887
Police isn’t and can’t be structured to respond effectively to the wide variety of Situations they are currently in charge of.

5282892 When they can't they call SWAT or the national guard if needed. Your way would require SWAT or the military to be called more often which is less effective and gives criminals more time to get away and hurt more people. In the end, it's best to not disarm our first responders. Your logic limits their ability to enforce the law and more people will get hurt; police and innocent people. Plus that would lead to the swat taking more control of law enforcement which is a paramilitary group which is what you didn't want the police to be. With the Swat doing more stuff they will need to hire more people and basically become a paramilitary police force which puts us right where you didn't want the police to be. That's the issue less capable cops don't lead to more peace we need focus on what the core issue is.

Defunding police is like taking a big paintbrush from someone and giving them a small one just because a few splatters on the floor. In the end that just doesn't fix the issue, but say laying newspapers or plastic down below where he is painting would fix the issue. That's my point you're trying to fix one issue with a solution that creates far more than it solves.

5282916
Again,

Police isn’t and can’t be structured to respond effectively to the wide variety of Situations they are currently in charge of.

Using adapted ressources on appropriate situations is better.

5282926 The Swat isn't designed to be law enforcement nor is the military. Cops end up being at a higher risk of dying because you think they should be disarmed, you might say not all, but disarming a few makes the police less effective which leads to more issues. Or we just trained police better and not make them sitting ducks.

They are called law enforcement and first responders. Swat teams aren't first responders nor is the military, disarming them makes suppressing criminals with guns harder giving criminals a high chance of harming people.

So what would you rather have police who have pistols or a military that will make the police look like a teddy bear?

5282784 Well, as the old saying goes it is foolish to put pearls before swine. :rainbowlaugh:

So I will be heading off. :scootangel:

5282944
Again

Police isn’t and can’t be structured to respond effectively to the wide variety of Situations they are currently in charge of.

I don’t know why you think I want to replace police with SWAT when I only expressed that police doing SWAT operations is bad.

First responders also include firefighters and medical professionals that, incredibly enough, can work with the police. When there is a car crash, paramedics take care of the person, cops report crimes if there were any, firefighters put out any fire that could’ve been started and thats it. I’m simply saying that we should add new first responders specialised in situations the police isn’t made to handle but handle anyway.

The police should focus on doing police things. They don’t need to do the SWAT job, it’s the SWAT job. Police shouldn’t be the ones to handle mental health emergency, it should be mental health intervenants. Every dollar spent to equip police officer to do another’s job is a dollar that could have been spent, instead on the right intervenant. We can’t train the police to do everyone jobs either because first responders jobs entail lives that are endangered. A bad job can mean death. Some intervenants don’t need guns. Paramedics don’t carry one yet it is very possible for them to get in a dangerous situation. Hurt people can be pretty irrational with a concussion or drug use. Yet, i don’t see people asking to arm paramedics.

If the situation arise, yes, military personnel should act on american soil. If america is invaded by a military force that can take down armored vehicules and are so well equiped that they can take the police, this is not crime, it’s a war. You don’t prepare police for war you equip them to deal with crime. Threats that go beyond mere crime should be dealt with people that are trained to deal with them. Police shouldn’t be armed to the point that they can be a municipal military unit. Military should be the one taking care of military required solutions. If neither military or police are an adequate solution to some situations, some other adequate respondents should be called or formed to deal with those situations.

Police don’t deal adequately with some situations. The funding the police receive to deal with those situations should be taken and given to professionals who will deal with the situation accordingly. When a police officer is dispatched to those situations, it unnecessarily endanger the cop, the caller and everyone around because the cop isn’t trained to deal accordingly with the situation. Cops have enough. They don’t need to be firefighters, paramedic, psychologists, Military, social speaker, child psychologists, engineers and everything else that could be required as an emergency. They need to be cops. We fund them to be cops AND to deal with problems that they, as cops, are not trained to deal with.

THAT money should go somewhere else. Not their gun money. Not their bullet proof vest money. Not their car money. ONLY the money they get to do jobs that others are doing so that those others can be called instead of or alongside cops. We don’t give guns to firefighters, paramedics, psychologists or social speakers So that they can shoot the bad guys. Those people wouldn’t use them correctly because they should focus on their jobs not on getting better at shooting bad guys and fighting crime. Why do we deploy cops like SWAT units, mental health intervenants or military? Cops are not those things. If we need more of those, we can fund more instead of half-assingly funding cops for those roles.

It is simple, again.

Police isn’t and can’t be structured to respond effectively to the wide variety of Situations they are currently in charge of.

I’m not proposing to replace a big brush with a smaller brush. I propose to get an array of brushes of all sizes and tools to make the best painting we can. The point of painting isn’t to make sure to not dirty the floor. It’s to make a beautiful painting. Using only one big brush to paint everything just makes a mess so why bother investing only in one big brush? We can Put newspaper on the ground and use multiple brushes.

5283021 I don't plan to read your chapter book of a response.


Swat isn't law enforcement neither is the military. Police are a law enforcement that's the thing you want swat to take over which leads to more death since that's shoot to kill same with the military too. Plus if you didn't know response time is key the long it takes the higher the risk.

Is your idea replacing cops at a protest with swat will work because swat is a paramilitary group and unlike cops they are way more armed and well more skilled, so basically everything you don't like about cops. Only swat can control a crowd in a way more brutal way.

Why don't you give evidence that less armed cops creates more peace.

5283024
Don’t pretend to understand my argument if you don’t bother reading. I take the time to read you even though you constantly misrepresent my points. I don’t lie about your points and I don’t tell you what you think because i don’t know. I don’t know you, i’m not a psychic and I have the intellectual honesty to not strawman you.

5283027 I do know your points.

Disarm the police and defund them.

Its like beating a dead horse. So why don't you take your ideas somewhere else because I'm tired of explaining the same thing over and over.

5283028
I guess i will. If you think that’s my position, you clearly haven’t read anything. Have a good night my friend.

5283033 I wouldn't call us friends

5283035
Hey no hard feelings, I don’t hate you even though i disagree. I’m sure you’re a decent person and, really, there’s enough vitriol in this world as it is. Goodnight.

5283041That's another issue I have with protesters or at least the bad one. If you gonna protest about police brutality it's best you don't get violent because you basically doing what you are protesting against.

Another thing is everything has to be political. We all agree that all lives matter and all people should be treated fairly and have equal rights. It's not just a leftist thing and while I lean more to the left than the right I don't agree with everything the left does and that's okay.

politics shouldn't be a big deal, because, in the end, people who vote for the left or the right think it's the right choice. People, for the most part, don't do it for racist reasons, at least I don't.

5283151
Yeah but i get why people would end up getting violent if they care and they feel like they can’t change the system. There were peaceful protests like taking a knee during the national anthem and the leadership just ignored the message and kept everything the same.

5283201 It's a 2-way road either both sides follow the Rule or neither sides do. Self-defense is fine and all. Cops die too and that's the thing, they are people too unlike soldiers who are trained to feel nothing cops aren't. I just found something that says the leading cause of police death is suicide https://www.wshu.org/post/suicide-leading-cause-death-police-officers-data-show#stream/0

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/record-number-us-police-officers-died-suicide-2019/story?id=68031484

https://bluehelp.org/

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