Solidarity

A troubling modern trend is complex issues being boiled down to pithy quotes. Nuance matters. Context matters. Problems that have a simple and easy fixes don't stay problems.

Nevertheless, sometimes the pithy quote is on point. This is one such time.

Tweet stolen from RBDash47, as this is one of the better reflections of my thoughts on the matter that I've seen.

Comments

[theRedBrony]

Perhaps, however, that quote is by the same organization that said that white people should just give all their money and possessions to 'black and brown' people, because they can just get more with their magical white privilege. What I'm trying to say is, Black Lives Matter - the organization - are ignorant racist bigots, the very thing they claim to hate so much. They are hypocrites, and they are not the least bit helpful to uniting us. And I would not waste my time listening to them.

[SigmasonicX]

Hear hear!

5279666
I'd say the country is more united now than it's been in ages. If you look at the polls, more people than ever are seeing how terrible the police are. We're starting to see movements toward real reform. The freaking NFL has suddenly decided it cares about black people, because the PR otherwise would be too bad. Black Lives Matter has done wonders for improving the United States.

Also, fuck off.

[theRedBrony]

5279678 I will agree that a large portion of the US is united right now. But is that really a good thing? What, exactly, are the united for? 'Real reform' could be major cities abolishing or crippling their police forces. This rioting, looting, and violence we're seeing now? Could be the 'new normal.' Is that a good thing? Where people's livelihoods are perpetually in danger of being destroyed? Where criminals are simply allowed to run rampant? Anarchy? Are you an anarchist? None of this is good. No good will come from any of this. This is not unity. This is division.

[SigmasonicX]

5279691

Could be the 'new normal.' Is that a good thing? Where people's livelihoods are perpetually in danger of being destroyed? Where criminals are simply allowed to run rampant?

The cops destroying people's livelihoods and being allowed to run rampant is the current situation though. Police reform would help fix that.

[theRedBrony]

5279696 The police are not destroying anyone's livelihoods or running rampant. As a matter of fact most police have been too restrained during these violent, destructive riots, when they should be protecting businesses, properties, and people. That's political, though, not their fault, but the local governments'. I can't fault you for advocating police reform, however. That's an entirely reasonable argument. Police brutality does happen, and unfortunately when it does, it's extremely difficult to dismiss or discipline a police officer. The thing is, a lot of people are demanding abolishing police departments entirely, or major defunding of them. That would fix nothing and create an entirely different and much worse problem.

Also I forgot to mention that telling me or anyone to 'fuck off' in response to something like this accomplishes nothing but exemplifying your own ignorance of the matter, and unwillingness to engage in intelligent conversation like a civilized person.

[theRedBrony]

cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/320670535342358548/719076802185789440/The_54th_massachusetts_regiment_acdc7f_7761427.jpg
Also, this is relevant to my point about BLM being a bunch of worthless sacks.

[SigmasonicX]

5279704
Wasn't originally going to continue talking, but just happened to come across this relevant article.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/05/defunding-the-police-us-what-does-it-mean

[theRedBrony]

5279716 Interesting article. Relies too much on suppositions and research - which is always biased - for something that could have very serious and very bad real world consequences. Though the article makes the argument well enough. Perhaps some defunding might not increase crime rates, sure. I don't see how defunding police is even related, to be honest. It's like threatening it as a punishment to police officers, what a joke. I thought the problem was police brutality, not crime or even too much policing. Interestingly, the article makes a main point that I also just made: police unions are the root of the problem here. Because officers cannot be disciplined, they get ballsy because they can get away with anything. Make it easier to fire cops, and they will behave better, that's by far the simplest and most logical solution here. Abolish police unions.

[Carabas]

[Caliaponia]

What one particular # organization does or doesn't do is a distraction from the main point. Likewise the fact that opportunistic criminals have leveraged the disruption is unfortunate, but setting up strawmen scenarios of this being the new normal is disingenuous.

As long as there are laws, some sort of law enforcement organization will exist. However the current system has clearly demonstrated chronic flaws, and lesser methods of trying to reform it haven't worked. If nothing less than mass protests gets the point across, it's not for a lack of trying.

I'd say the article is very on point, and saying "research is always biased" does not establish good faith in discussing.

Measured defunding to shift services back to being provided by non-police entities, or in the context of rationalizing police support to the actual need (such as eliminating militarized equipment), or as a punitive measure to enforce changes in organizational behavior is a practical approach. Defunded money does not vanish, and it's not hard to imagine how it could be redirected to services that reduce crime in non-punitive ways or provide greater overall public benefit than a marginal impact on crime rates.

"The police are not destroying anyone's livelihoods" doesn't really fly given the actual lives they've taken. Change is often an uncomfortable process, even change for positive ends, and in this case it's past time for the pendulum to swing back towards accountability.