• Member Since 4th May, 2013
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Estee


On the Sliding Scale Of Idealism Vs. Cynicism, I like to think of myself as being idyllically cynical. (Patreon page.)

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May
15th
2020

She-Ra: finale & series discussion · 11:11pm May 15th

So it ends as it began.

...in the single gayest way possible.

That's not an insult.
It is, however, an accurate observation.
And I still say Sea Hawk is in the closet.
Which is, of course, on fire.
It's a shanty closet. He couldn't resist.

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Comments ( 33 )

Seahawk's true love is the sea. Which moves in all directions.

No but really, I watched the whole season today and it was amazing.

Gosh darnit, now I gotta binge the whole season on top of everything else I gotta do :facehoof:

Estee #3 · May 15th · · ·

5263126

The main issue I had was Catra finally performing her turn. And after the multiple chances she's had, the major portion of that was 'Now? One flashback and you finally realize that just maybe, you've been screwing up this whole time? What, nearly destroying the world didn't do it for you, but remembering the day you scratched Adora's face, that's gonna give you some perspective?'

Portions of the season felt rushed. (Really not the best time to use an episode on three characters whom we saw once after -- for about twelve frames.) And of course, as Mermista pointed out, are we all really okay with just having Hordak walking around free? I'm going to assume that his little green bath purified his degenerative condition. (Also that he may need some maintenance in a few years, and that goes for all the very confused clones now populating the planet.) But that doesn't change everything he did before getting cured, and all the damage caused along the way. I doubt this was a deathless takeover -- although to be fair, he always did seem to favor conquest of the living, so it's possible that the body count was low. But -- zero?

It's easier to buy Shadow Weaver's final action. That almost felt like the ultimate act of control/abuse for her foster daughters. 'And now that I've decided to die for you, the rest of your lives will be spent with completely conflicted feelings about me. Have fun with that!' (But she also cared most about magic, and gave herself up to see it continue.)

We never got a good explanation for what She-Ra is. My guess remains a channeled energy construct around the body of the user -- but that doesn't explain why Adora retained the power after the sword was destroyed. Welcome to the fanfic category... And did you notice that the second version lost some height? She wasn't towering over Glimmer and Bow to the same degree as before. Subconscious desire to be closer to their level?

Also in the fanfic category: there is a huge power vacuum out there right now. Etheria has a structure it can use, but most of the Horde portion of the universe has been left reeling. You're going to see some weird governments arise, and a lot of petty dictators.

Still ticked off that we never found out what Eternia means here. I'll accept the Greyskull explanation.

Did I think it was perfect? No. But it came from a writer I trusted, who did more with it than any network would have allowed. It'll be remembered.

And dear gawds, is there ever gonna be fanfic.

(One more comment: did you spot the way the opening enemy/allies shots kept updating throughout the season? You can track who's been lost/recovered just by pausing on the last frame, right down to how well Netossa's quest is going. And poor Wrong Hordak just looks so awkward about being there...)

5263127
How did they deal with the Double Trouble spy/mercenary character? First, Catra recruits them to the Horde as their asset/spy. Double Trouble impersonates Flutterina in one of season 4 episode and I'm not sure where this character ended up at.

Estee #5 · May 15th · · ·

The mandatory mysterious statement which will only make sense to those who watched the season:

Spray bottle.
If only we'd known.

Darn it, I saw four episodes of this show and then it fell into the "I'll get back to it" hole. I'd say I'm just not good at watching things, but my YouTube habits say otherwise.

Ah well, I'll get back to it.

Neece #7 · May 16th · · ·

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Don't try to deny it Estee, that fanfic's going to be yours. I mean, after Cerea's adventure comes to an end, that is :pinkiehappy:

I would sell my blood for Netflix.

5263157
I've watched a total of zero episodes.
Also haven't finished the last two eps of S8, haven't watched S9, watched most of the the EqG shorts recently... I have a lot of late passes

Georg #10 · May 16th · · ·

I'll see your gay and raise it two violences.

5263176
Have you broken the glass on your free trial month?

Estee #13 · May 16th · · ·

5263179

Yeah, but they've been doing that for, what, thirty years?

...no, seriously. The original Harley & Ivy BTAS episode showed them living in a house with one bed, and a subsequent Gotham Adventures comic had Harleen say that Pamela's given her antidote shots so their 'playtimes' won't make her sick. Barbara, who was working with her in that issue, figured out the implications in a hurry -- then spent a lot of panels wishing she hadn't.

It varies by the writer and reboot -- but at this point, we can at least place them in the Friends With Benefits category, with Pamela eternally frustrated that she can't cut off the more openly abusive relationship. (Let's face it: while the comics Ivy may be an improvement over the clown, it's still not the healthiest connection.) So call Harleen bisexual and Pamela, on the good days, winds up at 'It's meat, but it's entertaining meat.'

5263179
Those falls did not obey the laws of physics at all. Love their reaction though.


5263185
I have not. And Community is on Netflix too... I haven't seen any of it at all, would it be worth binging in a month?

5263188
...Harley Quinn and B:TAS are thirty years old?

5263196
" it originally aired on Fox Kids from September 5, 1992, to September 15, 1995" taken from Wikipedia

I'm so behind on my Netflix shows, I'm embarrassed to name them all :facehoof:

I for one enjoyed the ending. I was expecting Catra and Adora to stay friends and be like sisters. But what really happened surprised me for the best.

I watched the She Ra cartoon back in the 80s
It was a spinoff of He Man & done by Filmation, not Hanna Barberra

This means that the animation sucks.
Don't have Netflix, I'd have watched the reboot if I did

5263136
Double Trouble continues to impersonate Flutterina and cause trouble for that entire season... until their sudden and inevitable betrayal. :)

Whelp, can't be looking at this for over a week (since that's how long it will take me to watch through, having just finished Young Justice season three last night - since I watch (30-minute-animated) series three episodes a time three days a week; I really don't watch much telly.)

5263210
5263196
In other words, Estee was rounding down. Stuff like this would make me feel old if it wasn't technically before my time. (Translation: I watched it and liked it as a kid, but probably not as the four-year-old I was when it apparently ended.)

Estee #23 · May 16th · · ·

5263173

Not currently likely. (I did make some trope edits to the series pages, though.)

5263131

The main issue I had was Catra finally performing her turn. And after the multiple chances she's had, the major portion of that was 'Now? One flashback and you finally realize that just maybe, you've been screwing up this whole time? What, nearly destroying the world didn't do it for you, but remembering the day you scratched Adora's face, that's gonna give you some perspective?'

I would straight up argue that Catra shouldn't have preformed a turn.

Catra's entire character arc throughout all four seasons prior has been that of someone who is capable of empathy and friendship, and has loads of charisma, but whose specific kind of damage ("Nobody can ever have power over me, because they might use it to hurt me; I will have power over them. That will make me free") completely overwhelms whatever good qualities she otherwise possesses, and who utterly lacks the self-awareness to conceive that people have motivations and priorities that don't completely center Catra and Catra's needs. That's apparent from the very first episode, where Catra is utterly incapable of conceiving of Adora's actions through any sort of framework other than "personal betrayal." Adora tries to explain to Catra that she cares about people who aren't Catra, and Catra regards that as beyond the pale.

This led her, of course, through a series of escalating betrayals and power-grabs as the instant anyone did anything to her she perceived as a threat, and for Catra, "we are having a technical disagreement" equates directly to "I have betrayed you, you personally, because I hate you, and I am now a threat to you." She felt bad about it each time, but that never really stopped her from escalating.

The natural character arc of someone like this is to try to scramble to the top of the heap, to build their throne of skulls on top of a mountain of blood. Catra should, probably, have been the series stealth big bad the entire time. She should have run the same playbook on Horde Prime she has run on literally everyone else in her life; ingratiate herself, become useful, build a powerbase, and then her damage impels her to destroy and usurp her patron before they can destroy her.

Instead Catra does... I guess we're supposed to see it as her hitting rock-bottom and bouncing. But there's very little sense that Catra has developed a wider moral sense beyond figuring out that if she wants the emotional intimacy she craves, she has to start acting differently. That's a start, but it never really progresses beyond that.

(Sidebar: show could also have done a better job with Entrapta's ridiculous borderline sociopathy. Entrapta repeatedly did shit she knew might destroy the planet just because she could, until she suddenly stopped, and the reasons for her stopping always seemed like they amounted to nothing more than "the needs of the show demand it.")

Portions of the season felt rushed. (Really not the best time to use an episode on three characters whom we saw once after -- for about twelve frames.)

Stevenson is a hell of a writer with extraordinary facility with characters.

She's also never, ever been able to pace well (I love Nimona, but god damn does that story fall apart in the final act) and has real problems with worldbuilding.

And of course, as Mermista pointed out, are we all really okay with just having Hordak walking around free?

That actually really, really annoyed me, because its emblematic of something I've seen across all spectrums of art for years now that's only growing. Which is writers feeling like lampshading obvious flaws or holes in their writing is the same as addressing them.

It is not. And it never will be.

We never got a good explanation for what She-Ra is...

Still ticked off that we never found out what Eternia means here. I'll accept the Greyskull explanation.

I'll forgive this if there's a "He-Man and the Masters of the Universe" series in the cards after this. If there isn't... ugh.

I mean, there are situations where "this mystery will never be solved" is an appropriate writing source. But those mysteries have to be properly constructed so that that is a satisfying resolution. In this case it really wasn't. The whole She-Re, Eternia, First Ones thing only makes sense to people who are familiar with the wider "Masters of the Universe" canon. If you AREN'T, it means the show spent a shit-ton of time on stuff that is never resolved, doesn't make sense, and doesn't have a narrative reason. You could have cut EVERYTHING to do with the whole "Adora came to Etheria through a portal and is a First One" plotline and simply had Adora being a nebulous "you are chosen to wield the sword" chosen one and it would have worked just as well AND freed up a ton of time to run other plotlines.

To put it more bluntly: if you design a character whose origin story is "summoned as a baby through a mysterious portal using powers beyond our ken" then you had better fucking resolve that at some point, because otherwise you've wasted a lot of peoples time.


5263131
I like Catra but I don't like her character arc.

I couldn't really watch it after season 2 because I heard that Catra just went more crazy. The thing is is that Catra is a victim and Adora unknowingly abuses her.

https://caba-art-and-writings.tumblr.com/post/613957315332276224/adora-stalking-and-unnecessary-strikes
caba-art-and-writings.tumblr.com/post/613766790269517824/she-ra-incongruences-and-victim-blaming?is_related_post=1

I'm not the best at articulating this, but I really think Catra got the raw end of the stick. The writers on the show clearly wanted to make her into the next Zuko and they succeeded in making her sympathetic in some ways, but they also pushed her too far in others but... IDK. It's a mess.

The posts up above talk about Catra's psyche and are one interpetation.

I wanted to like She-Ra. I really, really do. But Ijust couldn't? Even after all this time, I can't help but see Adora as preachy.

5263662

The writers on the show clearly wanted to make her into the next Zuko

She-Ra already HAD a Zuko. Her name is Adora.

Catra is Azula.

Even after all this time, I can't help but see Adora as preachy.

Adora is immensely preachy, but that's an aesthetic problem if a problem at all; it doesn't really speak to her as a person.

5263675
Um... no? Adora was pretty much slated to be the protagonist from the word Go.

Zuko had a three season arc where he starred as the antagonist/secondary protagonist. Adora in the second episode just becomes good and ditches the Horde. And unlike Zuko never really tries to redeem nor save the people of her home country.

Also read the two links i linked please.

5263685

Um... no? Adora was pretty much slated to be the protagonist from the word Go.

And?

Adora is absolutely Zuko; raised to be prominent, high-ranking soldier in the conquering empire, who when she figures out "wow, these people are fucking evil" bails on them because of her sense of what is right and wrong. That's precisely Zuko.

And unlike Zuko never really tries to redeem nor save the people of her home country.

She does just as much as Zuko in this regard, just less successfully.

Also read the two links i linked please.

I did. They're both ridiculous. Proceeding from a standpoint of "the princess coalition is precisely as evil as the Horde" is bullshit from step one, and that's just for starters.

5263623
The original Masters of the Universe 80's movie crossover has Adora as Prince Adam/He-Man's twin sister who was taken by Hordak (who was working with Keldor aka Skeletor) to kidnap children and send them to the Fright Zone as child conscripts for the Horde. Catra and Adora were in this group for the new series as was later Scorpia, whose kingdom was overrun and as part of a peace deal, the scorpion people pledged Scorpia to the Horde.

As for that Double Trouble character, they are considered gender-fluid and a chameleon like shapeshifter, voiced by Jacob Tobias. Double Trouble made their appearance in season 4, impersonating Catra, Hordak, Scorpia, Adora, and Shadow Weaver to impress Catra. I think she impersonated Huntara and later Flutterina in later episodes.

Estee #30 · May 16th · · ·

5263695

"the princess coalition is precisely as evil as the Horde"

...well, maybe Frosta.

5263695
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

IDK. I think She-Ra could've been done better. Especially the Catra bit if they really wanted the Catradora angle.

Edit:

Also Adora is not Zuko. Zuko had three seasons of development, two of which where he was firmly NOT on the side of good. Adora, in the very first season, just turns to the side of good after seeing one thing. Catra is a better example of Zuko. But even then that's iffy what with how hard they made her a Broken Bird.

Edit 2:

I always sympathized with Catra. She was abused and never really learned how to trust others. There's time she realizes that she's on a dark path, but she feels so trapped by her own mind, broken by Shadow Weaver's abuse, that she feels that this is what she deserves. Her story is a tragedy and it's painful because of how it could conceivably happen in real life. She had so many times to trust in Scorpia and Entrapta, but she breaks the bonds on her own and it's sad because it's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Sorry about this, I just thought of a better and much more filling response than a shitty 'agree to disagree' bit. Catra and Adora are both abuse victims. It's just that one had a better environment to heal in and the other didn't.

5263434
No rounding up. 92 is 28 years ago

5263728
Excuse me a moment. *loud bang is heard*

(Disclaimer: do not actually do this)

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