Beastars... Zootopia with its fangs and claws left intact. · 1:11am Nov 22nd, 2019
This anime shows how a world where predators and prey trying to live together would actually turn out: a messy, violent, chaotic place with predators sometimes going insane from trying to suppress their bloodlust, and prey appearing to be pretty helpless, until... well... if you read the manga, the prey are just as savage.
They're all animals, and the only ones who make it are those who can tame the beast within each of them.
Zootopia tossed out a rather bland morality tale with a pretty uninspired villain, painting everyone on one side bad and all predators as poor victims of a mean ol' bunch of WHITE sheep attack them with drugs to make them violent (gee, no agenda there!).
Even the Lion King ignored obvious issues with their world: the prey are ruled over by lions... who eat them.... and I imagine it's as gruesome as Wild Kingdom when it happens... SO HOW THE HELL DOES THAT WORK?! Timon put it best in the VASTLY SUPERIOR ANIMATED ORIGINAL: "You know her, she knows you; but she wants to eat him. And everybody's... ok with this? DID I MISS SOMETHING?!"
Beastars… everybody's F'd up. They're all stricken with both doubt and pride, fear of each other, fear of themselves. Yet many are still trying to find a way to make it work out. Episode 6 reveals just how tenuous their society really is. Every day is a struggle, and beneath the veneer of civilization is a nightmarish secret world of slaughter and barely reigned in literal lusts of the flesh. But even then, it's nuanced and incredibly varied. Some of the predators believe in honoring their prey, while others couldn't care less, and still others try to love prey... only to lose control of their passions and slaughter them. Two of the worst characters in the manga, in fact, don't eat meat... though one wishes he could. While one predator has another kill him if he attacks a certain prey character.
It's a world of constantly shifting dynamics, and the only constant is poor Legosi the grey wolf trying to prevent himself from eating Haru the rabbit. He cares deeply for her, and because of that, he's terrified to be with her because he doesn't want to risk devouring her if the instincts overtake him.
I've thought of it as something of an "Edward Scissorhands" paraphrase, for those who recall that classic film: Haru, "Hold me." Legosi, "I can't."
A friendly reminder that the "prey animals" tend to be as badass as the predators, if not moreso. Look at dinosaurs: triceratops would legit **** up anything that so much as looked at it funny, while others survived by simply being so ungodly huge that nothing was stupid enough to attack them. (I'll make the "too big to fail" joke so that you don't have to)
5158771 I don't want to spoil too much... but I did mention some of the most vile characters later on aren't carnivores. And they do AWFUL things.
5158771
I mean, you don't even have to go to dinosaurs; look at hippos, as just one modern example. Sure, some prey species cope by running away, some by hiding, some by trying to just outbreed the predators... but it's not uncommon for a prey species, including herbivores, to take the route of enthusiastic murder. After all, predators that kill too many of their prey risk going hungry; prey that wipe out their predators, well, hey, more room in the ecosystem for them and things they do eat now.
Anyone who assumes herbivore=safe is... not correct!
5158871 Hippos kill more people in Africa than any other large animal.
They're very nasty.
I hang out with lions. They're nice.
The strangest thing about Zootoopia was the way they portrayed organized crime.
The movie explicitly showed that if you cross them you are going to die, but if you help them, then they are going to give you invaluable help.
And in the end, the help Judy gets from the mafia lets her solve the case. And she is even invited at one of their weddings! And she is all happy and like... have we forgotten that they are all murderers and thieves and worse? Is Judy -of all characters- fine with them?
She even became the boss's grandson godmother in the end! Does that mean she is part of the family??
5158920
To be fair, they're called "the Family" in our world for a reason; this is more or less how they operated and part of how they got away with it for so long. Simple pragmatism goes a long way, and in this case that's what's happening on both ends.
5158871
Yeah, when the late Steve Irwin is afraid of an animal, you stay the hell away from whatever it is.
5158920 It made about as much sense as "Frozen" when you actually took the time to think about it.
Of course, with my analytical mind, "Frozen" had me table flipping about half-way through. Then came the absurd twist of super-nice guy is actually super-evil guy.
No one can fake that convincingly with someone they just met and barely knew existed until then. Doesn't work that way. Only Satan is that good of a liar.
5158972
Which explains his Kingdom Hearts incarnation. >_>
What got me about Zootopia was that they had a good story, one that explored things like bigotry and racism
5159073
With a metaphor that falls apart when you realize that they tried to replace skin color with murderous impulses and then keep everything else about the situation the same. Considering that actual racists don't see the difference between those two things, what you're actually doing is proving them right. At least in their own heads, and that's the one place you were trying not to do that.
5159081
Eh, fair enough
5159073 They explored it from a severely skewed viewpoint, not taking into account the VERY REAL DANGERS that would arise from carnivores living with herbivores.
They also omitted the fact that there were many omnivores... which includes foxes and bears, aside from polar bears.
It was dumbed down for the kiddies, and then we had a generic villain who was racist, because racism.
"Beastars" adds all the missing nuances from the generic platitudes and skewed notions of "Zootopia". It not only takes the world back to where the original "Zootopia" script had it, but then goes even deeper and adds layer upon layer until you end up with a very plausible-feeling society, even if trying to work out mentally how such a world would have even gotten to this point in the first place is virtually impossible. You know, unless you just throw up your arms and say, "ALIENS!!" or "GOD!!" or "A WIZARD DID IT!!".
Because, knowing how social dynamics and behaviors work as I do, these various species would compete severely, and only those on continents keeping them apart until each individual species had formed a society which then came in contact much later would have any chance of forming a multi-sapient species world. Even in an ideal case, you're looking at 6-10 species MAXIMUM. Dozens? Hundreds? Impossible without some 'mastermind' setting things up behind the scenes.
5159113
So pretty much every furry story ever?
5159081 Let's also keep in mind the ridiculous notion that these murderous impulses came from an evil white conspiracy giving them drugs to make them crazy... which is an actual conspiracy theory that's led to actual murders. (the conspiracy theory: the CIA brought cocaine to the urban centers to oppress African Americans and prevent them from achieving better conditions. When you actually analyze the history of cocaine, you find it was found in many things (including Coco-Cola, which derived its name from the plant), until the government realized that in its pure form it was leading to even more addictions than opium, and was therefore banned. It lingered in the background from the 30's onward and began to reemerge in a big way during the 60's counter-culture movement, where all manner of new and old drugs sprung onto the scene. Refining of it and opium (into heroin) continued until 'crack' was produced. It coincided with severe instability in central and South America, where a new type of guerilla war was being waged, which then morphed into the cartels... and was aided immensely in distribution by the Italian mafia who was no longer making money from booze, and found these hyper-addictive drugs an immensely lucrative opportunity.
The CIA was tangentially involved. They worked with dictators in the late 1960's through the early 80's who promised to battle the cartels, but who usually ended up being even worse. (Basically the CIA has never done anything useful, ever... if they would like to prove me wrong, they're welcome to give me examples. Oddly, they never do!)
5159122
I wasn't keeping that notion in mind because I was completely unaware of it. However, I'm not particularly surprised, or even disappointed. (Disappointment requires that I expect better)
5159116 Pretty much!
But I tend to lump them into two groups: one where the SOCIETY is integral to the story, in which case the origin of the world becomes an integral part of the structure. And the other when it's just humans with animal features in some story where stuff is happening that is disconnected from any origin (Disney's "Robin Hood" is a prime example.)
"Bambi" is actually one that works. Only the prey species and some omnivores appear sapient, and they're still 'animals' living in a human world they can't communicate with.
Another one that holds up is "Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIHM", since the non-experimental creatures (though some, but not all, are sapient... Dragon the cat is a simple beast) appear to possess very limited skill sets and an inability to learn written languages (this was fleshed out more in the book, which noted that Mrs. Frisby's husband had tried to teach her writing, but she couldn't really grasp it). And it takes place in 'our' world, where all the other aspects don't require explanation.
Hmm, "The Last Unicorn" also holds up well by this standard, especially given that it's set in a Medieval era with only a handful of sapient creatures, virtually all of which are magical (the butterfly and cat being exceptions... though the cat lives in a castle supported by a powerful magic, so it could also have been altered).
5158943
Yeah, but what's all of this doing in a kids movie? What kind of role model/toy are they trying to create here?
"Strong Independent Police Officer Rabbit Girl, now with ties with the mafia!"
5159113
What do carnivores even eat? I mean, beside popsicles.
5159160 And that's something "Beastars" addresses very early on as well. And then goes deeper and darker... oh god, SOOOOOO much darker.
Louis, you poor, poor deer.
5159174
Speaking of furries, have ever read Blacksad?
5159160
Role model? No, this is just a lesson that life is a series of choices between bad and worse. In this case, respectively the people who kill all their enemies and the people trying to kill literally everyone.
5159190 I'd heard about it and seen small bits of it.
5159937
Is a nice noir story, even though it has some woke moments into it that really annoys me.
5159986 Later on in the manga, pretty much everyone is messed up. There's no right or wrong side. It's a true society of animals trying to keep from slaughtering each other at any given moment... and sometimes failing.
I'm still waiting for the giant rattlesnake to vore somebody.
5158972
So apparently I misremembered this quote as being about Cozy Glow... and to be fair it applies equally well.
5179393 Yeah, it does work well for her. She just shows up and can perfectly pretend with everyone she just met. No idea if she's studied them or whatever. She just knows everything required for the plot to work.
Writer self-insert?
5179610
I feel I should give you the additional context that I was using it to say "it makes more sense for her to be literal pony Satan than the writers' actual intentions"
5179614 Well, it would, but since the writers gave Cozy not even the slightest trace of a background or origin, we are left with Heavy Handed Writer Influence as the sole option.
5179636
That's not how headcanons work. Doylist answers in general are strictly a last resort, and the whole reason you're even on this site is that there are people here who can do the writers' jobs better.
5179653 Oh, you were talking about making Cozy be Satan in a fic. I thought you meant what she was in the show.
She's not smart enough to be the Devil, though.
Maybe Skeletor... from the "Masters of the Universe"... the live-action movie. About that level of quality character.