Why Did Discord Propose Petrification for the League of Evil? · 11:26am Nov 13th, 2019
One interesting aspect of the Season Nine Finale is that Discord actively advised the Princesses to punish the League of Evil with petrification, which is to say the exact same punishment he endured for over a thousand years. By "actively," I mean that he stepped forward and decided to speak to them of his own initiative.
Now, this is interesting, because Discord had in an earlier episode stated that he hated being so imprisoned himself, and reviled the Princesses with the boast "I don't imprison Ponies in stone" as an argument for his own moral superiority.
So why did he want to see this done to them?
Well, to begin with, Tirek, Chrysalis and Cozy Glow were all evil -- more evil than even Discord before his reformation, and one proof of this is that all of them were willing to see Equestria burn. Discord imposed a reign of chaos on the land, but he as far as I know disliked actually causing the deaths of Ponies (he liked to play with them, albeit often sadistically. The argument could be made that Discord was horrified by their behavior and goals, though perhaps in a Blue and Orange moral sort of fashion.
Tirek wanted to steal the magic that makes Ponies special (and, from Discord's POV, especially interesting). Chrysalis wanted to flatten the emotional variability that also makes Ponies interesting to Discord. And Cozy Glow was in some ways the worst, because she was willing to betray and slaughter her own species in order to gain personal power.
Also, they nearly killed Fluttershy. That's unforgivable in Discord's opinion.
Discord knew that none of the Princesses (save possibly Luna) would have been comfortable with killing them (and even Luna wouldn't have liked to do so). He also knew that no prison, even a magical one, could have long held them, given their known powers and wiles.
But he did know that petrification would work -- because it held him, for more than a thousand years.
So he did what was needful, to ensure Equestria (and Fluttershy) would be safe.
Discord thus demonstrated how much he has grown.
One of the better analyses of the question I've seen. (Though one of my favorite takes on it is "He's a centaur, she's a changeling, and I don't know what Cozy is, but that thing is inequine.")
IMHO Discord was being a bloody hypocrite who didn't like he'd been out maneuvered.
And Celestia is a bloody hypocrite that she didn't even TRY to have Fluttershy reform Tirek or Cozy Glow when she had the chance.
To me, I think it's clear that regarding Discord, it wasn't ever on the grounds of "traditional morals" that he didn't turn ponies to stone. It's really because statues are boring, just like corpses, less chaotic. He was saying the words "I don't turn ponies into stone" bitterly because it happened to him, not because he found it morally disgusting.
Now, maybe you can say it's some of both, but I think it predominantly fell under "fun," in a similar way to how Chrysalis' "find food for my subjects" in her debut was clearly not her top priority, with her extreme megalomania being that.
And with these three... I think he didn't give the slightest fuck in regards to making sure they'd continue to be chaotic, which in and of itself would show growth I think.
It wouldn't be the first time that Discord changed his mindset at some point, in direct contrast to his debut.
- Discordant Harmony
It should be also noted that I'm fairly sure that "we should have fun with our guests" is a thinly-veiled metaphor for torture, regarding Chrysalis (oh, and "now I'll have all eternity to take my revenge on you" is too [Starlight gets bravery points on not running away with that in mind, instead of freeing everyone and helping buy time]) She didn't just want to murder them, she wanted to make them suffer, even more than Cozy Glow, who did want to murder them.
But anyway, to get back on petrification... I've seen it said before that it's a "bandage"... and the flawed example used was Discord, ignoring the fact that all three of them are much less powerful than he is in their present states, and thus much easier to contain with a petrification spell. They could be 100% unconscious, just like Twilight was when a cockatrice got her.
They're probably never getting out unless they're actively freed by a third-party, and at the very least with Chrysalis, I'm not sure Twilight could forgive her (which is saying something), even if she was contrite, which she isn't (threatening to rip Spike's wings off would leave quite the impression, considering he's her little brother).
5154804 Yeah, I think he was just acting out of pure anger that he had been humiliated by them. That and maybe he figured the worse punishment those three got, the less talk there would be about how much punishment Discord himself deserves for being basically the architect of the whole thing.
Discord, like Trixie, never really feels "reformed," even at the end, they've just been convinced to ally with heroes, and their shenanigans have subsided to a level where confronting them is more trouble than accommodating them.
Maybe that's a valuable lesson on its own?
5155014
5154828
I'm with you. Discord is, has always been, a narcissist and hypocrite. Plus, he never cared about them as anything more than cannon fodder for Princess Twilight's self-confidence anyway. Now that they served their purpose and proved she's capable, they're not needed anymore, so he might as well do the worst thing he can think of to them that isn't death, and the worst thing is petrification—because it happened to HIM. He's so full of himself, he can't think of anything worse than something that was successfully used to keep him in check.
I honestly wish there was more to it. Like, if he was seriously trying to reform them (his actions make no sense anyway if that wasn't the plan, so his motivations just became stupid by the end) but he came to understand it wouldn't work now, so he figures they, like him, need a time-out stuck in rock. But no.
Such a waste.
5154828
Discord had a deep lack of sympathy for the Trio, and for obvious reasons. His reform has mostly consisted of realizing that he can be friends with Ponies; that this can lead to even more complex and chaotic and hence fun interactions than merely tormenting them; even that he can court a Pony (Fluttershy) and really mean it, actually falling in love with her.
(Yes, in the SWSV he was originally in love with Celestia and best friends with Luna, and had other emotional relationships with the other Ponies of Paradise Estate, but that was before his first descent into madness).
But the Trio all abused Ponies, including the Ponies whom he cared for personally. They hurt Fluttershy (a Berserk Button). They threatened to hurt all his other friends. They were going to maim Spike, of whom the show makes clear Discord is fond. They would have turned Equestria into an icy, death-haunted wasteland.
Even Twilight Sparkle hated their guts. Chrysalis raped her older brother and nearly murdered her sister-in-law. Tirek destroyed the Golden Oak Library. Cozy Glow betrayed Twilight personally. All of them wanted to maim her younger brother.
Twilight's not cruel, but she's only equine. She wanted to hurt them.
So yes, I think that Discord pretty much tried to think of the worst punishment he could imagine to which he figured the idealistic Princesses would consent.
5155014
I like that Discord and Trixie, while they learn to function in Equestrian society, never really reform. They're both high-functioning sociopaths, who are able to genuinely love or like certain Ponies, and for them are willing to make the effort to change their behavior to gain the approval of those Ponies. (Amusingly, the series makes it obvious that Discord and Trixie actually like one another).
But neither of them is really nice. Nor ever will be, even though they become better-behaved and happier in the course of the series.
5155326 Couldn't agree more.
5155326
This may be a foolish and is definitely an OT question, but what is the difference between a 'high-functioning' and 'low-functioning' sociopath? I've mostly read of sociopathy in true crime books like the ones by Douglas and Olshaker. And in there sociopathy mostly manifests in the form of homicidal violence. Which even in most fanfic pretty clearly isn't the case with Discord and Trixie.
5157478
Sociopaths lack empathy, and hence tend to be amoral. This may be the result of some sort of defect in their mirror neurons. Thus they may do horrible things on scant provocation.
Some sociopaths either have more of a rudimentary empathy, or are simply smarter, and realize the disadvantages of their lack of empathy. They hence deliberately develop codes of conduct, generally copying those of others they admire.
Those sociopaths are high-functioning sociopaths, because they are less likely to casually do things that get themselves in serious long-term trouble. Their relative ruthlessness may help them in some chosen fields of endeavor.
Other sociopaths are insufficiently empathetic or smart enough to develop viable codes of conduct. They wind up doing horrible things and getting in serious trouble: thus they often wind up dead, crippled or incarcerated for long stretches.
Trixie (even my Trixie, who is more violent than the canon version) is a high-functioning sociopath. In the Shadow Wars Storyverse, Wisedreamer gave her a code of conduct which she follows to avoid self-destructive or overly-violent actions. In bcth th my verse and canon, there are things she won't do, and she desires love and friendship, which help hold her back from horrible actions.
Discord was once a far lower functioning sociopath than he is now. In my verse, he was somewhat empathetic when he was young, and had friends in Paradise Estate, and there fell in love with the young Celestia. But when Chaos first fully blossomed in his mind, he was driven mad by the experience, and "temporarily" (for millennia) lost his empathy and moral sense.
Indeed at first he was actually murderous. When he killed some of the Ponies of Paradise Estate (and eventually caused all of them to save Celestia and Luna to die of old age when he broke its magic), he regretted the loss of his former friends (with whom he still enjoyed "playing"), and decided to avoid killing whenever possible. He still transformed and in some other ways abused Ponies.
At the same time, he liked Ponies. This is why he would not kill or rape them, and why he protected Ponykind from threats far more evil than himself, during his reign.
When Discord met Fluttershy he began to respect and eventually love her. Largely for her acceptance, he began living according to a moral code, under which he became far more benign to Ponies. In time he made other friends, among the Mane Six, their kin, and eventually other Ponies as well.
Discord is now a very high-functioning sociopath, who has rationally-decided that the price of befriending Ponies is abstaining from harming them, and to pay this price in order to have Love and Friendship again.
5157603
Thank you for explaining that. So I just need to remember that 'high-functioning sociopaths are wise enough to not brutalize people for random amusement or petty revenge'.
5154661
So, racism? Doesn't seem very Discord.
5155014
Sadly, this does appear to be the most natural reading of it. Which seems like a pretty tainted lesson.
5155326
Trixie is debatable, but the question with Discord is, should someone like that be trusted with the powers of a god? Especially now that a way of safely removing them has fallen into pony hands?
5162641
Not racism. Technicalities. His exact words were "I don't turn ponies into stone." "Return of Harmony" is full of enough letter-of-the-law approaches to make a genie blush.
5162646
Discord didn't do the petrification; Cozy Glow was the only Pony (if she's technically a Pony) turned into stone, as Tirek is a Centaur and Chrysalis a Changeling (in my world also Ponies, but not one of the Three Kinds).
5154804
Discord spent a thousand years in stone and had a second run at it to, before he got let out.
On the other hand, him being responsible for the whole mess in the first place shows how much he hasn't - or arguably, how much more dangerous he can be when he thinks he's doing the right thing.
5240330
Discord meant well. Unfortunately, there are problems with trying to be a trickster mentor.
5240652
Really, it's an obvious extrapolation of his plan in Best Gift Ever, which worked out alright.
Nevertheless, I believe his actions ( particularly in the premiere) render him regaining his power (and further obtaining Fluttershi's love) unjust.
5240660
True, but Fluttershy's not about Justice. She's about mercy and kindness.
And she means it for real, not just to be manipulative, although she is also manipulative.
I think the both ends of this are things that Discord can love and respect.
5240681
But can she love and respect his unmerciful, unkind, revenge?
5240690
Toward the Terrible Trio?
Fluttershy couldn't think of a better solution. They're basically-irredeemable; no prison could hold them, so the alternative would be death. Exile would be insanely cruel to whatever land they were sent, and they'd eventually work their way back.
5240728
I'd like to perhaps see some evidence of this? Preferably of the sort she would be aware of?