• Member Since 12th Nov, 2011
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Dusty the Royal Janitor


Who needs sleep when you've been dead inside for years? :)

More Blog Posts279

  • 3 weeks
    25

    4 comments · 44 views
  • 13 weeks
    I Wrote a Buttload of Side Stories...

    ...For Applejack: Marvelous.

    "What If?"
    :fluttershyouch::rainbowderp::pinkiegasp::raritydespair::twilightoops:

    But I have a problem. One of the sidestories contains SERIOUS lore spoilers for the rest of AJ:M. I'm honestly not sure if I should post it.

    What do you guys think?

    14 comments · 284 views
  • 20 weeks
    So... how about them leaks? [FINALE SPOILERS!! READ AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!]

    Like... wow. Holy motherfucking shit.

    I mean, I haven't actually been invested in the show proper since the end of Season 3, and have only caught a smattering of episodes and the movie since then, but the characters and world are still pretty close to my heart. It's really saddening to see that this is where the show ends up. This is B.A.D.

    Read More

    27 comments · 466 views
  • 38 weeks
    Endgame

    I actually got really emotional. The past 10 years of my life have been kinda defined to a degree by these movies.

    Actual potential spoilers below for both Endgame and Applejack: Marvelous. I mean it. Continue at your own risk.

    Read More

    11 comments · 363 views
Aug
26th
2019

So... how about them leaks? [FINALE SPOILERS!! READ AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!] · 2:18am Aug 26th, 2019

Like... wow. Holy motherfucking shit.

I mean, I haven't actually been invested in the show proper since the end of Season 3, and have only caught a smattering of episodes and the movie since then, but the characters and world are still pretty close to my heart. It's really saddening to see that this is where the show ends up. This is B.A.D.

Heck, it's not just bad, it's actually kinda immoral even. Literally, the solution the characters choose to take is actually kind of fucking evil, and it's certainly hypocritical... both in universe for the characters and out of universe for the authors.

Not to mention, unless everybody decides to go AU, they've severely kneecapped future fanfiction. I mean seriously... at least Adventure Time had the good sense to skip forward, like, 1000 years or something so that people could interpret what happens after the show ended. It didn't do this.

This might ACTUALLY kill the remains of the fandom. It's that bad.
(Edit: Okay, apparently the fandom is responding by just writing more "Twilight outlives her friends and is sad" stuff. I'm tempted to say that that's actually worse...)

Alright, enough beating around the bush. Spoilers below. Do not read on unless you want them.


Okay, so... apparently Grogar never even existed. Grogar was Discord the whole time. He wanted to see if he could reform Chrysalis, Tirek, and Cozy Glow. There's no big final showdown with Grogar or anything like that. Nothing.

Also, apparently, despite recent episodes (purportedly, since I haven't actually seen them) showing that Chryssi, Cozy, and Tirek are capable of potentially forming friendships and maybe even being reformed, Discord, Celestia, and Luna all collectively decide "LOL nope, they can't be reformed!"

...so instead of sending them back to Tartarus or literally anything else... The three of them turn them to stone.

You know... the punishment that Discord established was basically a hellish state of "I have no mouth and I must scream" because he was fully aware while petrified? The thing he specifically said he did not do to ponies? The thing that, presumably, he wouldn't want to do to people because even he's not cruel enough to inflict his own level of suffering on them?

Inflicted on a fucking CHILD?!

And I've seen the clip. They're all fucking SMILING when they do it. It's actually really kinda terrifying.

It's also hypocritical to have them refuse to reform these characters when they're so gung-ho about reforming everybody else. Back in Season 1... when Gilda and Trixie were just dismissed as jerks and it was okay because some people are just like that and you didn't have to make friends with everybody... I could see dismissing somebody as unable to be reformed (though the stoning itself is still an overly harsh punishment). But ever since Season 3, the show has been pushing the running theme of "everybody has their own circumstances and story and is deserving of another chance" since the third season. To drop that now is incredibly hypocritical of the writers. It goes against the entire THEME of the show!

In Season 1, Celestia tried to reason with NMM. She was reformed by the elements of Harmony. In Season 2, Twilight tried to reason with Discord. He was reformed in the next season. Later, Diamond Tiara was given a reason for why she was the way she was, and she was given a second chance. Trixie and Gilda were both given second chances. Tempest Shadow invaded Canterlot and stoned the entire population of the city and she was given a second chance. Twilight talked down Starlight from destroying all of spacetime and learned why she did what she did (even if her backstory is still fucking moronic and she still deserves to be in prison but shut up I'm making a point here), and despite her many atrocities, she too was reformed.

Nobody gives Cozy Glow even a chance to explain herself. Nobody gives her the chance to tell people about her backstory and why she is the way she is. Nobody extends her the offer of a second chance. They just statuefy her on the spot.

I mean, you could argue that MAYBE Tirek and Chrysalis deserved it. Chrysalis has been granted numerous chances to reform and has refused all of them. And Tirek has been locked in Tartarus for literal eons and hasn't changed his ways, so it doesn't seem like he's likely to. I still say it's a more hellish punishment than anybody deserves but you could at least make the argument...

...But Cozy is fucking TEN. Seriously, what the fuck?

Don't tell me that Cozy Glow or Chrysalis are somehow less reformable than Tempest Shadow, Discord, or Starlight Glimmer (who, I remind you, mercilessly invaded Canterlot and stoned its citizens, tortured the entire nation, and deliberately broke time respectively)!

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE

So apparently the episode ends with a timeskip into the future. The writers prove themselves to be fucking liars once again by having Twilight outlive her friends. Twilight has grown into a big, tall, wavy maned Alicorn (from what I understand Celestia and Luna aren't present in the timeskip so who knows where they've gotten to). Meanwhile, all around her, her friends have grown old and decrepit.
EDIT: This has since been discovered to be somewhat of an exaggeration. The Mane 6 are more middle aged, like Cherry Jubilee or Spoiled Rich. Still not really a feel-good thing to see them growing gray, especially given all the circumstances, but better than them being Granny Smith-aged.

Also, to make the situation even more depressing, apparently they seem to go out of their way to confirm that all of the Mane 6 remain single and childless despite their advancing ages? I actually don't know this part for sure. Reports are conflicting (and sometimes hard to understand due to heated emotions). I think I might have read one post that suggested that Pinkie and Cheese Sandwich got together? But I'm not 100% sure on that one.
EDIT: Some commenters are saying that some of the Mane 6 have kids. I assume they must mean Cheese and Pinkie at the very least. Don't know who else. I do know that people keep saying that Applejack is childless, though, and that just feels weird. You'd think if anybody would want a large family it'd be AJ.

As I understand it, Starlight and Sunburst also get together. Furthermore, Twilight has taken on a student of her own. Reports are conflicting as to the identity of the student. Some posters are saying that it's Pinkie and Cheese's kid, while others are saying that it's Starlight and Sunburst's. How such an important detail can be such a major point of confusion I'm not exactly sure, but the episode did leak in the Netherlands and Dutch is a trainwreck of a language so maybe people are having trouble translating the episode.

It does, however, seem to be confirmed that, whatever Pinkie's relationship status may be, at the very least Fluttershy and Applejack are single and childless. Rainbow Dash is apparently the Captain of the Wonderbolts (about the only thing that rings true in this mess), but there's no word on her relationship status. And I have exactly ZERO word on Rarity.

Spike apparently has become an "adolescent dragon" and he looks like the biggest freaking Chad.

One really weird thing is that, while the Mane 6 are old and decrepit... the Cutie Mark Crusaders reportedly look like normal adult mares. This part I haven't actually seen screenshots or clips of yet, so take it with a grain of salt, but there doesn't seem to be argument about this point the same way there's argument about the identity of Twilight's new student. This is really weird and makes me wonder about how ponies age. Has the show just confirmed that ponies age like actual, real-life horses and only live to be a maximum of 25 or so?
EDIT: Since they're actually middle aged and not senior citizens, this makes more sense now. I guess The CMC are supposed to be in their 30's to early 40's while the Mane 6 are in their late 40's to 50's

Finally, there's no word on a lot of other characters in the series. Whether it's because the show itself doesn't mention them or just because people aren't raging about it I don't know, but there's currently no word on Trixie, Gilda, Shining Armor, Cadance, Flurry Heart, Celestia or Luna, Discord, Thorax, Ember, Gabby, or The Young 6.
EDIT: Apparently they do talk about what happens to some of these characters, but as of yet I still haven't heard anything. I guess it just must not be egregious enough to warrant any rage on the sites I've been looking at.

So... yeah. There's your finale. Grogar was fake news, Celestia and Luna are (for all intents and purposes) child murderers, the writers are hypocrites and liars, and the timeskip went out of its goddamn way to discourage any sort of post-show fan content.

Hell, I've said in the past that I intend to keep writing, and the show hasn't had much of any bearing on the directions that I take my stories since 2013... but even I'm considering just tossing all my fics after this. It's enough of a letdown to really dampen the enthusiasm.
EDIT: I want to clarify that this isn't just a knee jerk reaction to the finale. The enthusiasm I once had to write ponyfic has been fading for a long time. I've been getting bored and I've wanted to explore other things recently. This is just an extra depressing damper that makes me even less enthusiastic to keep it up.



So... My final thoughts...

I expected something mediocre, or even bad... I didn't expect this. I can't really muster up the energy about this show to really get angry anymore though... I'm mostly just sad. This show brought me out of a deep funk back in 2011 and the fandom has entertained me for nearly a decade, even after I broke away from the actual show itself. To see it come to this sort of end is just... depressing.

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Comments ( 27 )

I was furious about the ending as well, I am so glad someone else noticed how sloppy and bad the writing was! My fic I am working on kind of cannot be posted because of how messed up the ending is, and how it will not make any sense at all due to it.

Grogar not being real... wow... good job guys, screwed everyone over with that one didn't you.

5111595
I agree with the sentiments, but maybe spoiler that last bit? There are still people who (despite everything) are going to want to watch it when it officially comes out.

I mean, arguments could be made that they shouldn't risk looking at this comment section if they want to watch the finale for themselves, but people are curious by nature and will probably want to see how people are reacting, so it's the neighborly thing to do.

5111615

Right sorry, just thought if they read your post they would know... even though you did a spoiler warning hahaha! Edited.

Having seen the screenshots of the epilogue, it isn't as bad as you think. No outliving the other Five (and aren't old and decrepit), we do get word on several of the characters you listed, not all of the Mane 6 are childless, and time skip seems to be vague enough that fan works set between the show and the time skip won't be impossible. Honestly this seems like an overreaction. No need to throw away your fics just because of a disappointing finale. It's not going to kill the fandom, either.

EDIT: I meant to say fics not fits. The error has been corrected.

well
now I'm glad that I haven't watched the show since somewhere around season seven

5111619
Having taken a closer look at some of the screenshots, they appear to be middle aged rather than old and decrepit. Like Cherry Jubilee or Spoiled Rich. I suppose that's not QUITE as bad, so I'll be adding some edits to the blog, but it's still disappointing and a little depressing... perhaps just not as intensely so as it would be if they were all Granny Smith's age.

Still heavily put off by the character assassination of Celestia, Luna, and even Discord, though.

I dunno about my fics. I've been considering moving on to fics about other series anyway. I'd hate to disappoint all my readers, and I'd be disappointed in myself too since, once again, I was unable to actually finish anything, but the spark for MLP just isn't quite as alive as it used to be. It's not quite dead yet, but despite having otherwise distanced myself from the show, this finale isn't helping.

Haven't seen it yet (outside of a couple of screenshots), but I don't think it'll be THAT bad. Maybe some of the anger from the fact the series finale got leaked early is tainting your opinion of the episode. Maybe when you get a chance to rewatch it, it won't seem as bad; I know my opinions of certain episodes have changed after further rewatches. Maybe when it's in English, being able to properly understand the dialogue will help mend a little bit of the "damage".

Or maybe you're right and it does just suck. You're certainly more qualified to answer that question than I am, that's for sure.

But at the same time... Does this really inundate very good thing MLP has ever done? Because of this one bad episode, have all your favorite episodes retroactively become terrible? Has the fandom been singlehandely murdered by a few tidbits of information in a flash-forward several decades ahead? That's a lot of open space to doodle in. And even then, I don't think there should be any shame in using an AU tag at this point; Star Wars fanfics based on the OT and PT have been getting away with that for several decades at this point, to name an example.

I don't know. Maybe I'm a blind fool, and you've hit the nail right on the head. But going off of personal experience, anger like this usually doesn't stick around for very long. Sure, it may sting for a while, but someday we might be able to look back and smile a little.

Or, like I already said, maybe I'm just crazy. :)

5111640
Despite all evidence to the contrary, I'm not actually that angry. I'm mostly sad. This show deserved so much better than what it's gotten for the past god-knows-how-long.

I must clarify that I haven't actually watched it. The episode was leaked in the Netherlands so I assume the leak is in Dutch. (That's the only reason I can fathom that there's such confusion about what's actually going on in the finale)

Everything that I've got here comes from forum threads and posts elsewhere on the internet, backed up by screenshots and a few video clips and gifs that didn't have any sound, which is why I expect I'll get a lot of people telling me how I got details wrong. At least one commenter has already told me some of the details I've gotten wrong, so I've added some edits to the blog to correct for them.

As far as "Does this really invalidate every good thing MLP has ever done" I think that's a matter of perspective from person to person. For a lot of people, a bad ending is the worst possible sin. It means that if you ever go back to watch it again, then you always have the niggling knowledge in the back of your head that "yeah, this is great, but it all amounts to a shitty ending." Some people might be able to get past that, but others won't be able to. A finale or ending is meant to be the culmination of everything, where everything comes together. And a bad ending can really screw with how we perceive a body of work as a whole.

5111648
To be fair, 85% of shows that made it past Season 3 deserved better than what their last few seasons gave them.

Again, this is all coming from a latecomer to the franchise who tends to be optimistic to a fault, so take this with a few grains of salt, but I do think that the last few seasons have gone far, far better than they had any right to be. Sure, there have been plenty of missteps, but I don't think we've come anywhere close to Game of Thrones or Spongebob levels of absolute failure. There've been plenty of great moments (Ex: "The Perfect Pear" and "Twilight's Seven") that, at least in my mind, have done a decent job making up for the bad moments (Ex: "Fame and Misfortune" and "Yakity-Sax").

At the end of the day, when it comes to emotionally-supercharged events like this, I don't think we'll really be able to determine for certain how we feel about the finale auntil we've seen it in its entirely and had enough time to clear our heads.

For example, when I first watched The Phantom Menace, I absolutely despised it. And while I still don't consider it a particularly good movie, I certainly have warmed up to it a little over the past few years. Conversely, when I first watched The Last Jedi, it was one of the greatest things I'd even seen in a theatre. And while I don't hate it to the extent others do, my recent rewatchings have brought it crashing back down to Earth, so to speak.

And yeah, while I may never get it, I do kinda understand why some people's opinion of the series will be tarnished by a bad ending. But as for me, if the journey's been fun, then the destination isn't going to spoil it all.

And something tells me I'm going to find at least a little enjoyment in the destination anyway, because, like I said, I can be optimistic to a fault if it serves to benefit me.
:twilightsheepish:

P.S. Sorry about my glorified rambling.

I wonder if Gen 5 will be a continuation of FiM and that’s the reason for some of these choices. Kinda like Boruto being the sequel series to Naruto, or YuGiOh! GX to the original series. But if even just the part about Grogar not being real is true, then the finale automatically fails because that’s not at all the story that was being set up in the premiere. If it’s true, it might actually have the same effect as Game of Thrones or The Last Jedi, which is to say, it’ll kill long term interest in the franchise.

I am really sad that I may not see Applejack Marvelous brought to conclusions. It had so much potential.

5111673
It doesn't help that Disney recently announced a She Hulk show on Disney+.

Knowing ahead of time that your story is in for an imminent Jossing really puts a damper on enthusiasm.

I'm not going to say it's definitely dead yet. I've been having a hard time writing in general recently. We'll have to see if I can build up any sort of momentum again. For now I'm trying to write other stories about other franchises and series to see if I can get any of my mojo back. After that we'll have to see if I feel any urge to return to AJ:M.

5111691
What are you working on and where can we find it?

5111695
Anything I write for other series will be posted on my Spacebattles account.

Currently nothing is being posted yet (because I'm caught in a fucking rut) But I've been toying with fics based around Young Justice, Spectacular Spider-Man, Skyrim, and various animes.

I guess it didn’t really go out with much of a bang, and more like of a whimper. Oh well, that’s the beauty of AUs; you can just retcon half of this.


Nobody gives Cozy Glow even a chance to explain herself. Nobody gives her the chance to tell people about her backstory and why she is the way she is. Nobody extends her the offer of a second chance.

She was given a chance during her first actions as a villain, and what did she do?

Make it flat out clear that she didn't care about the ramifications of her actions and was planning on doing it again in another area until the guards captured her. Which is a huge difference from Starlight, who at the very least regretted her actions and willingly play stor self before Twilight and her friends for punishment.

Conversely, Cozy Glow showed no remorse or regret for what she'd done. And would've tried again if given the opportunity.

Cozy Glow knew exactly what she was doing in the S8 finale. She was given a chance to explain herself and atone by Twilight and she soundly rejected it.

And considering the fact that she willingly started working with two known villains who are threat to Equestria has a hole... she kind of dug her own grave in that regard

I honestly don't give a crap anymore. I've subsisted on fanfiction alone ever since the writers started cramming Starlight Glimmer down our throats, but this is just plain awful. Even after the whole "school of friendship" nonsense and giving the neurotic time-destroyer a job as a student councelor.

Fanfiction has always been higher quality than the show itself (especially after Season 2), so I don't really see how this demotivates people any further than before.

It's kind of weird actually. Other shows get plotless badly written slash fics with every single possible pairing under the sun that makes me want to vomit, whereas this fandom has produced dozens if not even hundreds of epics rich in characterization and world-building.

Okay, so... apparently Grogar never even existed. Grogar was Discord the whole time. He wanted to see if he could reform Chrysalis, Tirek, and Cozy Glow. There's no big final showdown with Grogar or anything like that. Nothing.

When I review the finale, I'm going to ignore the Cozy drama and focus on how much this annihalates several seasons of character development for Discord. It's so stupid it makes my brain bleed.

After seeing this episode, I finally understood what the power of friendship actually is : Plot Armor.
I always tough that the characters were absurdly lucky and now I understand why. They're no lesson to gain here, no actual tension in the story, no use for character development and power-up, because in the end they ALWAYS win because of plot convenience.

- Nightmare Moon destroy the elements? They reappears fully powered simply because the character want it so.
- They're all brainwashed by Discord? Celestia send you all the letters to make you remember who you are.
- Chrysalis has won? Cadance simply free Shining with ease and generate a magic wave that expulse all enemies.
- The Crystal Heart is falling and Sombra is going to get it? Shining trow Cadance at the Exact angle to get it.
- Tirek has defeated a Twilight? Here, have some new and completely broken power-up that solves everything.
- Don't really have anything to say for Starlight, excepte for her "redemption" which she does not deserve (destroying the timeline multiple times and creating new one that are full of problems. And don't think they disappeared at the end, because Starlight is their cause she simply cannot undo them because that would be a paradox. This means that all these timelines are still up there.)
- Chrysalis won, AGAIN, and with even more ease the the first time? Thorax suddenly knows how to have an epic transformation and all the other changeling decide to follow him for some reason.
- The Shadow Pony Arc...was good actually, they find a successful but difficult way of saving Stygian and seal the Shadow Pony in Limbo. They did research, knew it would cost them something, have a little argue about always trying to save someone even if that seems impossible and it was overall quite epic.
- Cozy Glow...somehow managed to trap Starlight (seriously what?) and turn everyone on her side? Have some basic power Bullsh- I mean Friendship and everything is fine.
- The second Sombra arc started well even tough I didn't liked how Sombra is less like Sauron with a powerful and reverberating voice but some overly pretentious basic Evil Overlord. And then we learn it was all a setup and they wasn't anything at stake.


And now we have :
- Unnecessary plot twist that ruins what was for me the BEST villain so far with the idea of using real teamwork against the protagonist.
- Stupidly blatant Plot Armor for said protagonist.
- And finally, some Deus Ex Machina in the form of the new utterly unstoppable power-up that solves everything.

Now that the episodes have been leaked in English I can honestly say it was a pretty solid finale. It wasn't perfect but few are and I've seen worse *COUGH* Star vs the Forces of Evil. As far as endings go this was a pretty solid way to go out and the ending leaves things vague enough that you can always imagine the villains got reformed at a later date.

Only Pinkie has a child and it's implied that Dash and AJ are gay for each other, stereotype much?
Parts I did like, Tempest Shadow showing up during the fight and Sandbar and Yona ending up together, boy likes em big

Discord wasn’t trying to reform Tirek, Sombra, Cozy, or Chryssy. He wanted them in top shape and teaming up against twilight and company so that when she beat them the confidence boost of besting all her greatest rivals and foes at once. And of course if she fell short he was planning to be the safety net. Unfortunately he underestimated them all, a fairly in character thing for the ‘all powerful’ lord of chaos and they turned the tables on him.

Chryssy has had numerous times to reform, and it was clear she wanted nothing to do with it sadly. She likened it to an infection when she, cozy, and tirek searched for grogars bell at the end. Sadly she was never going to reform.

Tirek similarly has been purely evil for millennium. And is power hungry to a fault. At least with discord you can understand that his lack of empathy was due to him being a near literal god amongst mortals, and how celestia and luna of the day not realizing that chaos =/= evil. Even starlights endangering of space/time was entirely unintentional. She was playing with magics she couldn’t fully understand, and couldn’t believe that Twilights friendship was the lynchpin that saved equestria countless times. But like you said neither here nor there.

Cozy is a flat out sociopath, full stop. She doesn’t show any genuine emotion throughout the entire show, but she is very good at faking it. Despite being a child she early destroyed the world twice. Not by accident, because she wanted to. She is viscous, manipulative, and devoid of empathy. Maybe something did happen to make her that way, but considering we never got anything about that, Ocams Razor dictates she was just born without the ability to truly feel empathy, and therefore never truly reform.

As far as the i have no mouth thing... that was likely either the elements of harmony punishing Discord (the elements are pure law, not pure good as established in canon) or the fact that discord is a higher level of being than a pony. I’m willing to bet that what he, luna, and celly did was a straight up flesh to stone spell, meaning the trio are in stasis until its broken.

As for the final episode... what? Nearly everyone got together.

Rainbow and Jackie were heavily implied to be a couple (not my personal pick but then again Twijack is an aquired taste I suppose}

Rarity and spike were implied a bit but I can see Rarity becoming more of a spinster lol

Discord and fluttershy became a thing

Pinkie and cheese absolutely had a kid

All in all i enjoyed it for the most part. I was upset for the Grogar bait and switch, but Discord is categorically childish and short sighted and constantly underestimates ponies and mortals so it makes sense for him to so severely screw up. He was meaning well but he can’t help make things worse, i think thats kinda just a subconscious thing with him being a literal personification of chaos. I really enjoyed certain bits like Pinkie Pie lord of chaos destroyer of worlds, Dashes genra savy snark, all the shipping in the world, and all the other non pony races coming together at the end. Was it perfect, no... was it the worst possible thing? Also no. It was an expectedly mediocre finale for a show that long ago ran out of fresh content.

Sorry but just came across this blog post. I have seen it elsewhere on this site in another authors story, but it was revealed that the writers accidentally wrote themselves into a corner with Cozy Glow. They wanted her to be like Baby Doll from Batman The Animated Series. She was supposed to be lying about her age the entire time, she was just an adult with a foals body. The problem was they got to the end of the season and realized that they where going to be implying certain things that would change the rating for the show. Then again this would explain why she was obviously the youngest person going to Twilight's school. Still they could have handled her a lot better.

5120835 You know, had the writers been intelligent at all, they would have made Cozy another Changeling Queen, except one that was a mastermind and was plotting along with a resurrected Grogar to take over the world. Then you'd have the potential for the isolated and broken Chrsyalis to butt heads with an enemy of her own kind, and set a stage for her GENUINE redemption.

Or, Cozy could have been a unique villain, trapped in an unaging condition after trying to find an artificial means of becoming an alicorn… thus explaining why she knows so much as had learned a method of seizing magic.

It's almost like I know how to write a plot structure...

Also, apparently, despite recent episodes (purportedly, since I haven't actually seen them) showing that Chryssi, Cozy, and Tirek are capable of potentially forming friendships and maybe even being reformed, Discord, Celestia, and Luna all collectively decide "LOL nope, they can't be reformed!"

Uh, no. The closest thing that we got to that was "Frenemies" and Chrysalis effectively squashed any hope of that.

...so instead of sending them back to Tartarus or literally anything else... The three of them turn them to stone.

These three had shown that they were well beyond being saved or reasoned with. What else did you expect them to do? Have the villains say they're sorry and all be forgiven?

You know... the punishment that Discord established was basically a hellish state of "I have no mouth and I must scream" because he was fully aware while petrified? The thing he specifically said he did not do to ponies? The thing that, presumably, he wouldn't want to do to people because even he's not cruel enough to inflict his own level of suffering on them?

Hold the phone. Discord's philosophy on petrification was never centered around traditional morals, just as I also think the reason he didn't kill the Mane Six wasn't. Discord was blatantly talking about normal ponies when he said that. But no, apparently three psychopaths who destabilized the country to the point of bringing back the Wendigos; (you know, the creatures that destroyed their last country) Is completely the same thing as talking about random ponies. Besides which, It wouldn't be the first time that he'd changed a part of his personality at some point over time.

From "The Return of Harmony":

Discord: [laughter] Make sense? Oh, what fun is there in making sense?

From "Discordant Harmony":

Discord: I know. I was afraid that if you saw exactly how different we are, you wouldn't want to be friends anymore.
Fluttershy: What?! Why would you ever think that?
Discord: Because you and I don't make sense to anypony else.

Also, if you're dead or petrified, you stop being fun/chaotic, something which I don't think he'd care for at that point with those three. In addition, he was angry because it happened to him, and he was the exceptional case of being conscious in stone.

I think it should also be noted that according to leaks, it was originally planned that the Rainbow of Light would've turned them to stone then and there, instead of just depowering the villains.

Inflicted on a fucking CHILD?!

Yes, a child who tried to destroy Equestria, gleefully said that she would gladly do it again if given the chance, and had a smile on her face as she talked about laughing as her fellow ponies slowly died. You seem to be forgetting that children in the same age range have committed atrocious crimes and have been tried as adults.

And I've seen the clip. They're all fucking SMILING when they do it. It's actually really kinda terrifying.

More like it's relieving that these three are being put in their place where they can't harm another living pony ever again.

It's also hypocritical to have them refuse to reform these characters when they're so gung-ho about reforming everybody else.

These three were beyond being reasoned with. Again, what did you expect them to do? Have the villains say they're sorry, be forgiven, and have everyone go on their merry little way? That would've been an atrocious ending.

But ever since Season 3, the show has been pushing the running theme of "everybody has their own circumstances and story and is deserving of another chance" since the third season.

Yes, everyone is deserving of a second chance. This is the philosophy that both Goku and jesus themselves lived by. It's only when siad person is irredeemable or refuses to change their ways that punishment is issued.

To drop that now is incredibly hypocritical of the writers. It goes against the entire THEME of the show!

No, it doesn't. It's hypocritical to punish psychopathic criminals for their crimes against ponykind? Like Fire Lord Ozai, these three were all set to wipe out all of ponykind and rebuild the land in their image. They were pure evil, irredeemable violent maniacs who would stop at nothing to destroy Equestria and all of those who opposed them. What on Earth were you expecting to happen? To have the Princesses say, "Say you're sorry." That's the equivalent of Harry Potter telling Voldemort, "Try remorse." It's beyond idiotic. Had the Princesses t=ied this tactic, the villains would've laughed in their faces and proceeded to kill them.

and she still deserves to be in prison but shut up I'm making a point here), and despite her many atrocities, she too was reformed.

In prison for what? Screwing with the timeline which had no consequence whatsoever? I'm also confused as to what "many atrocities" you're talking about? The only one I can think of is what she did in "Every Little Thing She Does" and she vowed to never do that again. Don't even bother bringing up "Starlight the Hypnotist" because that was completely consensual.

Nobody gives Cozy Glow even a chance to explain herself. Nobody gives her the chance to tell people about her backstory and why she is the way she is. Nobody extends her the offer of a second chance. They just statuefy her on the spot.

You want to know why no one's interested in listening to her? Because no one's interested in listening to the mad ramblings of a psychopathic pony who hates her own kind, to the point where she would jump at the chance to kill them! And they didn't give her a chance? Bullshit they didn't! Even when given the chance to turn over a new leaf, she refused it and said that she would gladly do what she did all over again if given the chance. Twilight even asked her why she did what she did, giving her a chance to explain herself, and all Cozy had to say was, "Friensship is power" and that's it.

I mean, you could argue that MAYBE Tirek and Chrysalis deserved it. Chrysalis has been granted numerous chances to reform and has refused all of them. And Tirek has been locked in Tartarus for literal eons and hasn't changed his ways, so it doesn't seem like he's likely to. I still say it's a more hellish punishment than anybody deserves but you could at least make the argument...

...But Cozy is fucking TEN. Seriously, what the fuck?

Again, several children no older than ten, and some even younger than that, have been tried as adults for atrocious crimes and have been punished thusly. By your logic, you're saying that we shouldn't punish these kids for what they did.

Don't tell me that Cozy Glow or Chrysalis are somehow less reformable than Tempest Shadow, Discord, or Starlight Glimmer (who, I remind you, mercilessly invaded Canterlot and stoned its citizens, tortured the entire nation, and deliberately broke time respectively)!

At the most, Tempest committed treason and regicide. Discord was punished for his crimes. Starlight was going to be punished and she was more than willing to accept any punishment dished out at her, but Twilight offered her hoof in friendship instead. What Cozy Glow and Chrysalis did is unforgivable, Cozy Glow even more so. She actively put ponies in danger, didn't care that she did so, and would gladly do it again. Hell, "Frenemies" even strongly implied that she would gladly kill her own kind and laugh in their faces while they slowly died.

Also, to make the situation even more depressing, apparently they seem to go out of their way to confirm that all of the Mane 6 remain single and childless despite their advancing ages?

As I understand it, Starlight and Sunburst also get together.

It does, however, seem to be confirmed that, whatever Pinkie's relationship status may be, at the very least Fluttershy and Applejack are single and childless. Rainbow Dash is apparently the Captain of the Wonderbolts (about the only thing that rings true in this mess), but there's no word on her relationship status. And I have exactly ZERO word on Rarity.

Honestly, who gives a shit? The status of their relationships was the last thing on my mind whwn I watched this! At least this way they left it open-ended so we could draw our own conclusions. And at least this way I won't have to put up with anyone bitching and whining about hiw their favorite ship wasn't made canon or to hear endless flame wars on Facebook or on here over shipping.

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These three had shown that they were well beyond being saved or reasoned with. What else did you expect them to do? Have the villains say they're sorry and all be forgiven?

Honestly, yes. The show has been preaching a message of "everybody deserves a second chance" for something like 7 seasons now, and to go back on it now feels hypocritical.

Is it a great message? Arguably not, but it's the message they've insisted on hammering home over and over.

Yes, a child who tried to destroy Equestria, gleefully said that she would gladly do it again if given the chance, and had a smile on her face as she talked about laughing as her fellow ponies slowly died. You seem to be forgetting that children in the same age range have committed atrocious crimes and have been tried as adults.

That may be the case, but there's a such thing as "cruel and unusual" punishments. The only account we have in the show that describes what it's like to be trapped in stone is Discord's, and what he describes would definitely fall under that label.

More like it's relieving that these three are being put in their place where they can't harm another living pony ever again.

Anyone who has a shred of decency would be very solemn if they were forced to dole out a severe punishment to a minor, whether they deserved it or not.

These three were beyond being reasoned with. Again, what did you expect them to do? Have the villains say they're sorry, be forgiven, and have everyone go on their merry little way? That would've been an atrocious ending.

Starlight Glimmer.

That is literally exactly what happened with Starlight Glimmer.

Yes, everyone is deserving of a second chance. This is the philosophy that both Goku and jesus themselves lived by. It's only when siad person is irredeemable or refuses to change their ways that punishment is issued.

Who the hell gets to judge when somebody is irredeemable?

No, it doesn't. It's hypocritical to punish psychopathic criminals for their crimes against ponykind? Like Fire Lord Ozai, these three were all set to wipe out all of ponykind and rebuild the land in their image. They were pure evil, irredeemable violent maniacs who would stop at nothing to destroy Equestria and all of those who opposed them. What on Earth were you expecting to happen? To have the Princesses say, "Say you're sorry." That's the equivalent of Harry Potter telling Voldemort, "Try remorse." It's beyond idiotic. Had the Princesses t=ied this tactic, the villains would've laughed in their faces and proceeded to kill them.

Starlight. Glimmer.

Seriously. Everything Starlight Glimmer did was worse than anything Cozy or Chrysalis ever did, and she got off scott free. Personally, I hate her for that, but most people seem to worship at her damn altar. I'll admit, I don't know your personal opinion on SG, but if you ever were a fan of the character as anything other than a villain, then I think you need to ask yourself if you're applying your values evenly.

In prison for what? Screwing with the timeline which had no consequence whatsoever? I'm also confused as to what "many atrocities" you're talking about? The only one I can think of is what she did in "Every Little Thing She Does" and she vowed to never do that again. Don't even bother bringing up "Starlight the Hypnotist" because that was completely consensual.

Dozens of cases of unlawful imprisonment, torture, and "mindrape" for one (which I'd assume, in a world with mental magic, there would be a law against.) Literally millions of cases of negligent manslaughter, atop countless other crimes, for another, given the worlds she created by messing with time. You seem to think that, just because it all turned out okay in the "prime" timeline that that just erases the fact that she did those things. And given that we don't know all the details of how time travel works in MLP, there's every chance that those alternate timelines are still out there.

You want to know why no one's interested in listening to her? Because no one's interested in listening to the mad ramblings of a psychopathic pony who hates her own kind, to the point where she would jump at the chance to kill them! And they didn't give her a chance? Bullshit they didn't! Even when given the chance to turn over a new leaf, she refused it and said that she would gladly do what she did all over again if given the chance. Twilight even asked her why she did what she did, giving her a chance to explain herself, and all Cozy had to say was, "Friensship is power" and that's it.

Clearly a case of somebody who belongs in intense therapy and needing of mental health aid. It's funny to me how they tried to justify everything Starlight did by giving her a backstory, but they never once dipped into Cozy Glow's backstory. (Granted, SG's backstory is horrendously inadequate to try and excuse the things she did, but at least they tried.)

Seriously. Even in cases where a child is disturbed in some manner, we still give them a chance. Maybe Cozy really is a psychopath by nature... or maybe she had a childhood far worse than anything Starlight or Tempest had and found herself coming to some incredibly bad conclusions because of it. I GUESS WE'LL NEVER KNOW because the writers clearly didn't care and just wanted a good ol' fashioned 'bad guy' all of a sudden... despite all their previous established themes.

It's true, too. The original notes for S9 were leaked. They just completely randomly changed gears and decided that, for whatever reason, they wanted a "Light vs. Dark" story, despite having always at least tried to be more complex than that, and they chose Cozy Glow to take the fall.

This is a little girl who needs help. Not given a fate worse than death in the form of perpetual solitary entombment.

Again, several children no older than ten, and some even younger than that, have been tried as adults for atrocious crimes and have been punished thusly. By your logic, you're saying that we shouldn't punish these kids for what they did.

No, you are purposefully missing my point. I'm saying that the punishment does not fit the crime, that the punishment is cruel and unusual, and doesn't take into account any of Cozy's circumstances.

Cozy glow deserves to be sent to prison, where hopefully she can meet with therapists or counselors so that she might eventually, perhaps, be rehabilitated... or better yet, sent to a mental institution.

At the most, Tempest committed treason and regicide.

"At most." lol.

Discord was punished for his crimes

And his punishment was just as cruel and unusual, but at least with somebody as godly powerful as Discord I can understand why, maybe, it might have been a necessary evil if there was no other recourse.

Starlight was going to be punished and she was more than willing to accept any punishment dished out at her, but Twilight offered her hoof in friendship instead.

Which was incredibly irresponsible of Twilight.

What Cozy Glow and Chrysalis did is unforgivable, Cozy Glow even more so. She actively put ponies in danger, didn't care that she did so, and would gladly do it again.

Literally all of the Mane 6 have done this.

Hell, "Frenemies" even strongly implied that she would gladly kill her own kind and laugh in their faces while they slowly died.

Mental. Institution.

Honestly, who gives a shit?

I don't know. You'd think people who'd been following the show for so long would care about what happens to the characters. Would want to see them get a happy ending? Would want the writers to treat the show with a level of care and dignity to avoid accidentally creating something with a ton of horribly unfortunate implications?

And at least this way I won't have to put up with anyone bitching and whining about hiw their favorite ship wasn't made canon or to hear endless flame wars on Facebook or on here over shipping.

Your compassion is overwhelming. :ajbemused:

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The show has been preaching a message of "everybody deserves a second chance" for something like 7 seasons now, and to go back on it now feels hypocritical.

How is it hypocritical to punish those who have done wrong? The logic used here makes no sense.

That is literally exactly what happened with Starlight Glimmer.

Uh, no, it's not. There was an entire season where Starlight was constantly doubting herself and asking whether or not she deserved to be Twilight's student, not helped by the fact that everyone, though mostly Spike, was constantly bringing up what she did in the past. It took until saving Equesteia for her to become comfortable with herself. Her transformation was anything but instantaneous.

Who the hell gets to judge when somebody is irredeemable?

Considering the fact that these three were all for committing mass genocide, I'd say that's nore than enough grounds to call them irredeemable. Hell, one of the reasons why people were so disappointed with the ending to Avatar: The Last Airbender was because people really wanted to see Aang kill Fire Lord Ozai for his actions, and felt that Aang taking away his bending was a major cop-out by the writers. People typically don't enjoy seeing criminals getting away with their crimes.

Starlight. Glimmer.

Seriously. Everything Starlight Glimmer did was worse than anything Cozy or Chrysalis ever did, and she got off scott free.

:rainbowlaugh: Uh, no, it was not. The most she did was screw with the timeline. That's it. She did not threaten to kill anyone. She did not commit any act of treason. She did not make any attempts to commit regicide. She did not try to destroy Equestria by draining away all of its magic. She did not directly put anypony in harm and not care about it. She did not sing a song about how she would love to kill others and laugh as she did it. She did not gleefully admit that she would gladly repeat her actions if given the chance. She did not impersonate someone else to get close to the royal family as a means of attacking them and their homeland. Nor did she kidnap others and hold them hostage as a means of taking over Equestria. Not only are theae all of the things that Chrysalis and Cozy did while onscreen, it's all they did while onscreen.

Personally, I hate her for that

In other words, that's code for, "I hate a good character for stupid reasons and look for any excuse I can grab onto just to hate her regardless of the fact that said character has gone above and beyond to change her ways."

but most people seem to worship at her damn altar.

You know why people started liking her? Because the writers made a sizable chunk of season six of her making up for her past misdeeds. The entie finale was about her coming to grips with her past and overcoming it. Then, when the writers started noticing that people were complaining that Starlight was getting too much spotlight, they dialed back on her screentime considerably in seasons 7-9. They went out of their way to make her a good character, but not at the expense of the other characters.

I'll admit, I don't know your personal opinion on SG, but if you ever were a fan of the character as anything other than a villain, then I think you need to ask yourself if you're applying your values evenly.

In other words, you're basically saying that one isn't allowed to like Starlight Glimmer unless they only like her as a villain.

Dozens of cases of unlawful imprisonment, torture, and "mindrape" for one (which I'd assume, in a world with mental magic, there would be a law against.) Literally millions of cases of negligent manslaughter, atop countless other crimes, for another, given the worlds she created by messing with time. You seem to think that, just because it all turned out okay in the "prime" timeline that that just erases the fact that she did those things. And given that we don't know all the details of how time travel works in MLP, there's every chance that those alternate timelines are still out there.

What in the world are you talking about? You're accusing her of multiple counts of manslaughter, imprisonment, and mindrape all becaiae of some hypothetical timelines that could have happened? That's all those alternate timelines were: hypothetical scenarios that could have happened if Twilight and her friends hadn't stepped up to the plate and stopped the bad guys. The only accounts she's guilty of are imprisonment and brainwashing, which are pretty standard practices for cults.

Clearly a case of somebody who belongs in intense therapy and needing of mental health aid.

Seriously. Even in cases where a child is disturbed in some manner, we still give them a chance. Maybe Cozy really is a psychopath by nature

Considering the fact that this pony had no qualms with killing her own kind and seemed eager to do it, I'd say she's a psychopath.

... or maybe she had a childhood far worse than anything Starlight or Tempest had and found herself coming to some incredibly bad conclusions because of it. I GUESS WE'LL NEVER KNOW because the writers clearly didn't care and just wanted a good ol' fashioned 'bad guy' all of a sudden... despite all their previous established themes.

It's true, too. The original notes for S9 were leaked. They just completely randomly changed gears and decided that, for whatever reason, they wanted a "Light vs. Dark" story, despite having always at least tried to be more complex than that, and they chose Cozy Glow to take the fall.

The writers have always done that, evsn as far back as the first two seasons They've always left details like that open-ended to give fans more fuel for their fanfics.

This is a little girl who needs help. Not given a fate worse than death in the form of perpetual solitary entombment.

They tried helping her, but she refused their help. You cannot help someone who doesn't want it.

No, you are purposefully missing my point. I'm saying that the punishment does not fit the crime, that the punishment is cruel and unusual, and doesn't take into account any of Cozy's circumstances.

This is a pony that not only committed treason and attempted regicide, but also was all for committing mass genocide and tried to destroy Equestria at least twice. I'd say that more than warrants her punishment. Luna did the same thing and was sent to the moon for a thousand years. Does her punish also not fit her crime? Is Celestia sending her to the moon for a thousand years also cruel and unusual? Yet again, Celestia didn't bother to take Luna's circumstances into account, just as the Pillars didn't bother to do the same with Stygian before jumping to conclusions.

Cozy glow deserves to be sent to prison, where hopefully she can meet with therapists or counselors so that she might eventually, perhaps, be rehabilitated... or better yet, sent to a mental institution.

As far as we know, Equestria doesn't have mental facilities. If it did, most of the Mane Six would've been sent there years ago, particularly Twilight and Pinkie Pie. The most evidence we get that Equestria might have mental hospitals are in the episodes "Read It and Weep" and "Just for Sidekicks."

Which was incredibly irresponsible of Twilight.

Yes, because why on Earth should the Princess of Friendship extend the hoof of friendship towards soneone who really needs it, someone who has a miaguided view on what friendship is? Why on Earth would we want a powerful unicorn on our team who could be a really useful ally? No, no. Just send her to Tartarus where she can easily escape, because surely she won't come back for revenge and be twice as pissed off, right?

Literally all of the Mane 6 have done this.

No, they haven't. The only examples that i can think of are Twilight in "Lesson Zero" and Rarity in "Inspiration Manifestation." With the former, she was under a great deal of stress and wasn't in the right mental state. With the latter, she was under a spell.

I don't know. You'd think people who'd been following the show for so long would care about what happens to the characters. Would want to see them get a happy ending?

The Mane Six seemed to be perfectly content with where they were in their lives by the show's end. Rarity has expanded her vusiness to where it's a global empire. Rainbow Dash is captain of the Wonderbolts. Applejack, Fluttershy, and Pinkie Pie are doing well in each of fheir businesses. The Cutie Mark Crusaders, Smolder, Ocellus, and Silverstream are all working at the school as teachers. Yona and Sandbar run the Carousel Boutique. Big Mac and Sugar Belle have a little foal of their own. Pound Cake and Pumpkin Cake are running Sugarcube Corner. And Twilight has petty much achieved world peace through the help of her friends.

Would want the writers to treat the show with a level of care and dignity to avoid accidentally creating something with a ton of horribly unfortunate implications?

I love how you assume that the staff that's been with the show since the very beginning couldn't be bothered to end the show with a level of care or dignity, which is completely false. If the interviews that I've heard are any indication, everyone involved working on the show absolutely loved it and it's an experience that they will cherish for the rest of their careers. Besides which, it was always part of the plan from the very beginning of the show that Twilight would succeed Celestia, so this was inevitable. Yes, all of Twilight's friends will pass away, with the possible exception of Spike. Tough. That's life. Celestia had to go through the same exact thing after Luna was banished, and if "Princess Twilight Sparkle" is any indication, she pretty much had to force a smile on her face every day while she was suffering from a broken heart because she missed her sister so terribly. I mean, after all, she was crying as she did it.

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