There’s Something I’d Like to Say... · 6:20pm Nov 11th, 2018
Whenever I look at the Bible, I find that no other book and source of info has as much certainty, nor as much validity as the Bible. When you look at it, you find that everything it says brings up more explanation & point than anything else. Examples especially being why there’s so much evil in the world; why there’s so much hate, misery, death, destruction, and chaos.
A person who doesn’t believe it to be the key or answer to everything is obviously a man who has barely quenched satisfaction and contentment.
The problem with anything opposing the Bible, such as books that teach evolution and environmentalist views, is that they destroy our identities, as well as take away what makes mankind so unique. What our identities are and what makes us so unique, is that we are the Children and Servants of God, we are all made with a purpose, and we are made in His very image.
Without God...without Jesus...and without the Bible...mankind would be nothing. Everything would be nothing.
People have been telling me of course that the Bible would often get mistranslated or modified. But, if there’s one thing I know, when you translate the Bible from several different languages such as English and German, you’ll find that they all say the same thing. Another, is that if it was modified, you could tell right away exactly what God wants to teach us and what a Man has put in for his own selfish reasons.
Every one of this of course is based strongly on what I think (all of which is true, at least to me and other people I know such as my family). If anyone has a problem with what I have to say, or just wants to voice what you think...please. Please, speak up.
(I’ve also posted this on the “Warriors of Jesus” group. If anyone is a member there, and has already seen it/commented on the thread, you don’t need to respond here. It’s up to you of course.)
you said everything perfectly, you archangel!
4966452
Thank you.
I already commented on the other one since this one was written, but it occurs to me that maybe I should post it here as well to make sure it isn’t overlooked.
I agree with the basic message, but I am wondering, what do you mean when you say that “if it was modified, you could tell right away exactly what God wants to teach us and what a Man has put in for his own selfish reasons”. How do you think anyone could tell the difference? Could you give an example of something you think was put in for selfish reasons? Also, I fail to see what environmentalism has to do with your original point. And finally, I mostly agree with the comments by GivingSpider (On the other blog). That is all.
4966552
How you can tell is by comparing it with other Bibles.
At the church I go to, all of the Bibles they have say the same thing. When you compare one that doesn’t have the same words as the others, you can tell.
4966552
While I cannot speak for OP's feelings on the subject; I am convinced that he/she feels that American Conservative Republicans literally are the Party of God.
Thus why Enviormentalism is something that OP feels the need to call out as anti-Biblical.
Of course I still fail to see why wanting to actively preserve the world that the Divine made is somehow anti-God; but I digress.
OP does have the right to these views, just as much as anyone has the right to disagree.
4966570
Who’s OP?
4966572
Exactly what I was wondering.
4966569
Um...no.
That only explains why you feel that the Bible version your Denomination uses is correct and suggests that you possibly feel that non-English language Bibles are inherently 'tainted'.
4966572
4966573
I was referring to A Man Undercover
OP means 'Origional Poster'
Sorry about the confusion
4966569
Also, I misunderstood your initial statement. I thought you meant in ancient times, that it had been intentionally altered at some point in the distant past, which is what I had meant when I said similar things in the past.
4966575
I’m not exactly an expert on this, but I am intrigued by the possibility you seem to be suggesting, that the Bible has different meanings when read in another language, do to differences in meaning and that sort of thing. That hadn’t really occurred to me. I had just thought that it was altered a long time ago, but that’s an interesting idea too.
4966577
That’s alright.
By the way...
Admittedly, it can hard to explain. But...let’s just say I let the Lord guide me on how to tell, alright?
4966594
That's fair
That's really all I can say for myself as well.
4966593
What the original Greek scriptures meant is hotly debated even today. Some things don't translate very well, and some don't really fit at all with modern English.
And again, that's just from Greek.
Differences in languages today sometimes make for odd translations.
Here's an easy PC example:
In English you say 'Red Rose'
In German, you say 'Rosenrot'
The German word for Red becomes part of the German word for Rose instead of two sepetate words for 'Red Rose'.
4966594
I feel the same way. Which makes me wonder, perhaps everyone is given different guidance and instructions based on what they are meant to do? Just an idea.
4966627
Yes, that could definitely have the potential to create confusion.
6649948
What method are you using to determine certainty and validity?
No I don’t find that. The majority of the world doesn’t find that.
Many mythologies give explanations for things that we observe in the world. Please demonstrate why any of the biblical explanations are actually true. Any that are demonstrably true I’ll believe, the rest I won’t. Why? Because I actually care if my beliefs are true (meaning they comport to reality).
No, a person that doesn’t believe the bible is the answer to everything is obviously just a person that doesn’t believe the bible is the answer to everything. Satisfaction and contentment are demonstrably unrelated to believing the bible.
This is a baseless assertion. Please provide evidence to back it up.
Prove it. Not just you, but anyone out there. Please demonstrate that we were created by god. Just because you say it to each other and anybody else who will listen over and over again doesn’t make it true.
Clearly man exists and isn’t ‘nothing’. You haven’t shown that god actually exists, until you do you can’t appeal to it as a cause. It’s like me claiming that the sweater I’m wearing was a gift from my fairy god mother and when you doubt me I say “oh yeah? Well where did my sweater come from then?!?” It’s asinine.
Which is it, they all say the same thing or you can just tell what god said vs the man made modifications? It can’t be both.
Doesn’t really matter either way to be honest, I’ll grant you for the sake of argument that the bible has been perfectly translated and preserved from its first drafts. That gets you nowhere. How did you determine that it’s actually true?
For every other point I’m not saying you are wrong, I’m just noticing that you have failed to provide any reason to think you are right. Here though, you are wrong. Things aren’t true for you but false for me. The moon is either made of cheese or it isn’t, regardless of what we believe. God either exists or he doesn’t, regardless of what we believe. Truth is independent of our individual beliefs. When you say something is ‘true for you’ you are really just saying ‘I don’t care if this is actually true I’m just going to believe it anyway’.
I care about my fellow human, so I don’t like to see people believe things for bad or no reasons. It is harmful because it opens them up to being deceived and/or scammed. They waste time and resources stalling progress and discovery, leading to human suffering. I will defend to the death your right to believe what you want to believe, but I won’t hesitate to point out when your reasoning is flawed or you are making unfounded assumptions.
Other than your ‘true for me’ line, I am not saying you are wrong about anything you said here. I am simply noticing that you have made a bunch of claims that are not evidently true.
It’s like if someone says they know that there is life on Mars right now. We ask how they know that, and they answer ‘I just know. When I watch The Martian, I find it to be the most certain and valid movie I’ve ever seen. Without life on Mars, life on earth is nothing at all.” I’m not saying: “you are wrong, there definitely isn’t any life on Mars!” I’m saying: “You are wrong to believe that there is life on Mars based on your personal feelings and a neat story”.
4967259
I have proof. But you wouldn’t be able to see it even if it was under your very nose.
And I see no proof of everything being made without the hands of God, to be honest.
Why not take a look at what many environmentalists and evolutionists classify us as. Monsters. Animals. Things that are not special whatsoever. Is that what you classify us as?
They don’t even have proof for actual and physical proof for anything whatsoever.
The reasons I worship God in the first place is because He has my back, and He is my salvation. I have at one point approached a time where I was nothing but a depressed and anxious wreck. All I ever wanted to do was kill myself. I believed I was never important to begin with. But then...
God came to me.
I would never be where I am now if He hadn’t come along.
Does that provide enough explanation and reason behind why I worship Him?
4967278
That was amazing. I agree with you on every point. I can relate to what you said towards the end extremely well, and I am beyond impressed at this comment. Well done.
4967388
Thanks.
4967278
'environmentalists and evolutionists' do not classify us as 'Monsters'. They claim that we sometimes do monsterous things, which is consistant with Biblical teachings.
Blatenley false. This is you lashing out because you've read scientific studies that denounce the existance of God. There are actually a lot of people in the study of Evolution and Envormental Science that equate their findings as coming a closer to proving God's existance.
Speaking honestly...this explains a lot about you.
Wish I had the same experience. The concept of (Christian) God made me want to kill myself .
This blog has several deleted comments. If silencing others is how you choose to defend your beliefs, then that tells me that help is unwarranted.
So...
Blessed be
4967416
I didn’t delete all of them.
I deleted the one from HPlus, but that was it. It was only because I didn’t want to be talking to him. He and I don’t get along, in case you don’t know.
As for the others, I believe their orchestrators deleted them themselves.
4967420
Then I apologize for my assumption
4967420
Ah, that explains that. I responded to that one, but it took me longer to write than I expected, and the original comment was gone by the time I wrote it, so I deleted mine. Too bad, it was a good comment (mine). Maybe I’ll try to write it again from memory, but probably not.
4967278
Also, sorry about this, but I forgot to mention when I responded before that I mostly meant the part at the end, I didn’t really mean the part about environmentalists and all that.
4967430
It’s alright.
4967470
I expect this comment of yours to be deleted as well, but I’ll try to write my original comment as close as possible. The following is my original comment (approximately).
I can’t speak for A Man Undercover, but I think you are missing the point. It is not just the Bible, but a sort of... feeling, a heartfelt truth, that can be felt that makes us believe. I am deeply sorry that you do not feel the same way. I hope someday you can feel the spark that I am referring to.
(Note: I tried my best to replicate the original comment, but I did change it a little. The precise wording is different, but the meaning is the same.)
4967420
I deleted my one post myself by accident, but it was a typo in the first place so no loss.
4967416
I deleted my own post, it was an accident lol, can’t speak for the others
4967539
Okay.
4967278
I don’t need to see it, I just need it to be independently verifiable. That is the standard of evidence I use to believe anything. I am consistent in this regard. Present the proof, then give me the chance to actually consider it and respond before you write me off. Saying I wouldn’t believe it before you show it to me is pretty weak.
Great, in this we agree. What’s your point?
Monster? There is no scientific classification called monster. As for animal... we are animals. So what? What’s so terrible about that?
Everything is relative. We are very special in many ways, and very unspecial in other ways. I would need you to provide context before I tell you how I would classify humanity.
This sentence is useless, it says nothing and there’s nothing to respond to. Please tell me who doesn’t have any physical proof for what claim, and give citations.
Cool, I assume you don’t believe in Fairies right? If I told you that the reason I worship the Winter Faerie Queen Mab is because she has my back and is my salvation, does that even begin to approach being a good reason to believe Mab and other fairies exist?
Absolutely it does! As I’ve mentioned before, I 100% support your right to believe what you want AND I 100% support you believing things that keep you from being suicidal.
My concern is that while you (or anyone really) is in an emotionally compromised and vulnerable state, people can swoop in and take advantage. While giving people support and community and helping them through tough times, individuals can be filled with any number of false things that they will accept out of desperation. That’s how people can end up in cults or radicalized terrorist cells (not saying that’s you, just saying that accepting things because it makes you feel good isn’t a reliable method of finding truth).
I would encourage you to seek out secular professional help as well as (perhaps one day instead of) religious based support, but that is not something I would want enforced by a law or anything. It might possible that there is a god that’s helping you in your life, or it might just all be an ancient fantasy story that believing in gives you strength and balance. I don’t know and I never claimed to know.
What I do know is that you (and every other believer on the planet) has failed to provide valid evidence for their supernatural assertions, meaning that accepting the various mythologies as true is irrational. The time to believe something is after it’s been proven to be true, not before. As I mentioned to you privately, I will always be honest in my scrutiny of ideas that I am presented with. Noticing that your ideas haven’t met their burden of proof isn’t an attack on you, it’s simply freedom of speech and the application of critical thinking.
Have a good night my friend, I’m off to bed.
4967558
My point is how can something not be made by the hands of someone bigger than we could ever imagine
I’m not saying that there’s a scientific classification. I’m saying that that’s just what many call humanity as a whole.
There’s also a prime difference between us and animals, really. Those differences being things such as our highly advanced intelligence and ability to speak.
Evolutionists, such as Charles Darwin, as well as people who say there is no God.
Technically, you yourself haven’t shown that there is no God. And what I mean by the sentence you quoted is that even though we do exist, we would be nothing without God. We would exist and be nothing at the same time.
I’m sorry that I haven’t answered every question yet.
4967558
Are you asking that question out of sarcasm or seriousness? I’m not saying I don’t believe you, I just want to know whether or not you’re kidding.
4967787
I don’t know. I don’t assume that there is a god. I don’t assume that there isn’t a god. I withhold belief on both sides because I’m waiting for evidence.
You are claiming that there is a god, but so far I find your evidence lacking.
Then I would join you in asking them to clarify what they mean and denouncing them for calling us monsters unless they have a good explanation.
Agreed.
Evolution is both a fact and a theory. I have already offered to explain this to you in private messaging. You declined the offer. I am happy to dispel your ignorance and explain what evolution is and what the evidence for it is (just ask), but that is a separate conversation.
Yeah, I agree with you here depending on the god. There are some gods that definitely don’t exist. Other definitions of god we can’t say that. If Joey over there says ‘there is no god’ then I would join you is asking him to prove it.
Yeah, so what?
Can you prove this assertion please?
Can you describe to me what it looks like for something to exist and be nothing at the same time please? I have no idea what you are talking about here.
No worries, take your time! One of the reasons I like conversing with you is that you really put the effort out to respond to my questions instead of dodging like some other people on this site do.
4967902
I’m completely serious. Maybe this will help:
You don’t believe my fairy godmother exists. When I say ‘how did I get this sweater then?’, you don’t find this question compelling because it doesn’t matter. I have to provide evidence that the fairy’s exist, asserting they must because a sweater exists doesn’t get me there.
I don’t believe that your god exists. When you say ‘how did we get here then?’, I don’t find this question compelling because it doesn’t matter. You have to provide evidence that the god exists, asserting he must because we exist doesn’t get you there.
So what?
Well, I’ve got nothing to comment on that personally, but, I will say that we both definitely have some common shoes around here. Both of us believe in different things, but we have nothing to give each other to convince any of us. I’m like you, in that when it comes to science, I’m very evidence and demonstration driven.
Basically, being existent and nothing at the same time means that on the outside, as well as your organs and brain, you have life. But, in the spirit and heart (and I don’t mean the organ), you’re asleep to the point of being unable to wake up. It’s like sleep-walking only with your eyes open, as well as like a zombie.
The basic problem with this post is that nothing you say here would be at all convincing to an atheist.
This assertion has little validity unless you have studied literally all (or almost all) of the research humanity has produced in regards to the topics you say the Bible provides answers on. Are you an expert in evolutionary biology, psychology, sociology, anthropology, and economics? If you’re not an expert in all of those areas, I don’t see how you could claim that the answers provided by those fields as to why there’s so much hate, misery, death, destruction, and chaos are inferior to the answers provided by the Bible. Also, unlike the Bible, all of those fields are rooted in (at least some) empirical evidence, which has proven to be a much more reliable standard of truth than personal feelings. (I say “at least some” because I know that there’s a disagreement on how scientific sociology actually is.)
Yes, that’s the reason why somewhere around 2/3 of the world’s population do not believe the Bible has the answer to everything. It’s so obvious, and the only explanation is that you’re smarter than all of them.
...Okay, that’s a subjective viewpoint. And there are at least three problems with it.
1. Given how many non-Christians there are in the world, and given the fact that they haven’t all committed suicide, they obviously think there are some meaningful qualities to life that don’t rely on us being “children and servants of God”.
2. This argument has nothing to do with whether the Bible is true or false. If the inevitable conclusion of the Bible not being true is that life is meaningless, that doesn’t automatically mean the Bible is true. If we already believe A. the Bible is false, and B. without God or Jesus, we are “nothing”, then the rational conclusion is that we are “nothing”.
Unless you’re saying that that whether or not the Bible is true or false, we ought to believe in it anyway because it gives our lives meaning. In which case, fair enough. I don’t have any arguments against that specific statement other than the ones that are already on this comment.
3. Your entire post ignores the fact that it’s not a choice between atheism on one hand and Christianity on the other. I know there are a lot of Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhs, Pagans, Jains, and people of all sorts of other religions who would take issue with your claim that “without the Bible, we are nothing.”
It’s very obvious that nearly every statement in your post would only be given by someone who is dogmatically certain of the truth of the Bible. And I think someone who phrases their arguments in this manner has trouble understanding why atheists believe what they do. You fail to look at these issues from an atheist point of view, and that is exactly why your arguments aren’t convincing.
4972546
Honestly, like a lot of other people, I think you’re basically not understanding why Christians like me believe in God. Not that I expect you to anyway. So...we happen to be in the same boat.
4972584
Maybe that’s true. But then the original argument wasn’t just about why people believe in God, it was claiming that people who don’t are wrong for not doing so (and in particular, that people who don’t believe in the Christian God are wrong for not doing so).
As for why Christians believe in God, my guesses would be:
1. Our brains seem wired to believe in some sort of god.
2. This might be because gods provide meaning and structure to our existence.
3. Also because it’s harder for a society to remain stable without threats of punishment for not following the rules that aren’t affected by human fallibility.
4. It’s human nature to attribute things that seem complex to some sort of intelligence.
5. Most people are raised from birth to believe in God.
6. Religious texts and leaders often have some kind of magnetic or persuasive quality.
7. Religious texts are seen as having gotten a lot of things right (such as prophecies coming true, or statements that seem similar to present scientific knowledge).
8. Much of the human mind is built on narratives, and religion explains all of existence in terms of narratives.
9. People credit God with helping them in life, in both tangible and emotional ways.
10. It seems more difficult to know what the right way to live is without the guidance of some perfectly wise being.
11. People often feel an emotional connection to their god(s) that feels similar to a personal relationship, and these feelings overpower any intellectual concerns.
12. Miracles.
13. The idea of God feels like an elegant and satisfying way of explaining the fundamental nature of existence.
14. People consider religious beliefs to be outside the domain of rationality.
15. Pascal’s Wager.
16. Religion claims to be an ultimate source of knowledge, and there’s a feeling that without it, we wouldn’t be able to be sure of anything.
I probably missed some things. But perhaps you can enlighten me as to why Christians like you believe in God.
Also, if you read my first comment carefully, you’ll notice there’s nothing in it that suggests Christians are wrong for believing in God, only that the arguments in this post are an ineffective way to communicate why you believe atheists are wrong.
4972594
On a few of those guesses, you are correct. However, the biggest thing that drives a Christian to God is this: hope.
4972783
That’s pretty vague, but okay.
If my understanding of what you mean by “hope” is correct, then I think most of what I said in my original comment still stands.
4970495
Sorry for the late reply, but you accidently forgot to reply to my post with your response so it didn’t pop up for me.
No, we are not wearing common shoes here. You believe there is a god and you have no evidence to support your belief. I do not believe that your god exists because of the lack of evidence. Get the difference? I agree that you have nothing to give me to convince me, that’s why I think you are wrong to believe in your god (other than to keep yourself from being suicidal). There is not a claim that I am trying to convince you of, so I have no burden of proof. When you say that I haven’t disproved god, you are pointing out an irrelevant point. You haven’t disproven my fairy god mother. Does that mean that I’m rationally justified to believe she exists? Obviously not.
Great. The difference between us is that I am evidence driven for all my beliefs, because I care if my beliefs are true and science is the most reliable method of parsing the true from the false. You seem to like to stop using evidence when it comes to certain beliefs, is it because these beliefs are so important to you that you don’t care if they are actually true?
Cool story, but clearly it isn’t true. There are literally billions of people that don’t believe in your god and yet they aren’t in a sleepwalking/zombie like state. I am one of them lol. As for the spirit, I am fine with a non literal and poetic ‘spirit’ that is synonymous with emotion and self... but there is zero evidence for an actual physical/immaterial soul that exists absent a brain. Just saying
4972546
Bravo, good posts! Well said