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Oliver


Let R = { x | x ∉ x }, then R ∈ R ⟺ R ∉ R... or is it?

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  • 156 weeks
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Oct
29th
2018

Points of Canon: Equestria Girls ~ Mirror Magic · 2:35pm Oct 29th, 2018

Why am I doing this now? Well, because I think it might be useful for the chronology, and I’ve been working on updating my chronology tool for Season 8. I just noticed I didn’t do one for Forgotten Friendship, which does have upper bounds on the Equestrian side now, and that seems chronologically predicated on this, so…

  • Chronological markers: Equestrian side of the mirror is our only solid yardstick, but Mirror Magic starts by referencing both Movie Magic and Dance Magic, which I haven’t done yet and not sure I really need to, since they don’t tell us much of anything about the Equestrian side. The magical powers of the Humane 7 position it strictly after the Legends of Everfree. Starlight is a friendship student, which requires The Cutie Re-Mark to have completed, and seeing how comfortable she is in the castle, I would say that The Crystalling also needs to have completed. Starlight is still a student, rather than a graduate, so it also precedes A Celestial Advice.
  • The opening scenes include Silver Spoon observing a display case of phones, which notably, includes a flip phone, but only one, a Blackberry-style device, and a tablet, which sets a certain timeframe this episode can’t exceed, if Pedestria is sufficiently close to our world: The first tablets worth owning that gained any market penetration were released in 2011. While sporadic examples of the format appeared earlier, none of them were out and about in random small town malls, and they gained enough prominence only as late as 2014.
  • 1. Yes, yes, I used to do HAM radio, so I notice these things automatically, why do you ask.

    Juniper Montage is using a walkie-talkie, which is, for some strange reason, yellow. Unless you go the cheap-Chinese-radio route, most of these (in the US) are FRS or GMRS, and bought off the shelf, rather than in bulk. I wonder whose initiative was go get mall employees consumer radios, because it’s not something the company did in a more organized manner.1

  • It’s interesting that the magic sparkle descends into the mall through the skylight, rather than, say, filtering through the wall or through one of the entrances. I wonder, are there any laws that govern this trajectory?…
  • “Except I can’t seem to keep my mind on anything other than our new powers, and the rogue magic that’s loose in this world, and how scary but exhilarating it all is. How does it work? How can we be prepared for it? When will it show up again?” I previously commented on it, but never wrote it down – but Sunset’s approach to studying magic is even more rationalistic than Princess Twilight’s, and this is one of the phrases that exemplify it.
  • “With the weight of all Equestria on your shoulders, you must have some advice on how to—” It’s interesting that Sunset, at least, believes that Twilight has government responsibilities, even though we see so few of those in the primary canon.
  • “What’s the matter, Sunset Shimmer?” The patties in the hamburgers Pinkie drops on the table before Sunset are too light to be meat. But notably, so is the patty on the burger on Rainbow’s tray as she passes by, as well as every other burger in the scene.
  • “Look! Twilight’s writing you back!” Notably, Twilight is writing back on the page Sunset has just filled: There’s only the other side of that page that is remaining clean at this moment. I call animation error.
  • “That feels a little weird after all this time.” Sunset doesn’t remember how to be quadrupedal or use magic to hold things. Which is actually more than a bit strange, since the time she spent in Pedestria between leaving for the first time and returning for the Element of Magic has to be much longer than the time she spent in Pedestria between Equestria Girls and today, no matter how you spin it – and she had no problem at all galloping or spellcasting back then.
  • One other thing to notice is that while Sunset enters the mirror clothed, no clothing appears on her pony form, and her messenger bag transforms into a single-side saddlebag. There’s no indication what happens to any other items she might possibly be carrying, but if they were in her pockets, they’re definitely inaccessible while in Equestria. The pendant with her geode is likewise missing.
  • “She wanted me to give you this.” At one point, the book tilts even though Sunset’s hoof only touches it from the front, indicating that yes, pony hooves definitely have a magical gripping ability in tribes other than earth ponies – we just don’t see it quite as often.
  • “She wanted to give it to you herself, but then she and her friends were called away to solve a friendship problem. That happens a lot around here.” Actually, when could it have happened?

    • 2. Emphasis mine.

      We never hear the words “called away2 to solve a friendship problem” in reference to anything other than a Cutie Map mission: All other kinds of friendship problems did not involve calling anyone away for the express purpose of solving them, the pretext was always different.

    • “Friends” is plural, so requires at least two friends to accompany Twilight. The only kinds of Cutie Map missions so far seen were pairs and full team missions. Full team Cutie Map missions are rare, there were only three televised: The Cutie Map, Shadow Play, and a fake one in A Matter of Principals. This can’t be the first or the third. However, for the second, Starlight went with them.
    • To top it off, in Shadow Play, Rarity says, “The only time the map’s called all of us to one place was Starlight’s village,” which means that no full team Cutie Map mission can exist between The Cutie Map and Shadow Play.

    So it couldn’t have been a full team mission. Therefore, a heretofore undisclosed Cutie Map mission that involved Twilight and between two and four other Mane 5 members, but not the full team, occurred sometime after The Crystalling and before A Celestial Advice, and it coincided with this special. I wonder what could it be, because missions of such a composition are otherwise unprecedented. Notably, it did not involve Spike – he got his first one in Triple Threat, which has to be later. I wonder where he is.

  • It’s interesting that the other endpoint of Sunset’s original journal remains in the mirror activation apparatus, and there’s no sign of it getting taken out – or being replaced by the new journal, which, incidentally, has a mixture of Sunset’s and Twilight’s cutie marks on the cover, rather than just Sunset’s. Would taking it out to write a response disable the wedge that holds the mirror open?
  • 3. Original spelling retained.

    Sunset’s aura color is different from her prior appearances. According to a tweet by Katrina Hadley, one of the two credited episode directors for Mirror Magic, “Fun fact. We changed to to red to refelcr her redemption & epiphany colour from when she pony-ups in RR. The cyan was her old ‘evil’ magic.”3 While I do not accept word of god as an authoritative source for pony on principle, it at least settles that it’s not an animation error, and implies that pony aura color can, in certain circumstances, change over the course of their lives. How rare those circumstances actually are remains to be seen.

  • “Well, I haven’t ever seen you in that world. So chances are you aren’t gonna run into yourself.” According to Sunset, if Starlight’s Pedestrian twin even exists, she’s not anywhere in the region. Which probably means she’s currently running a cult somewhere in Pennsylvania.
  • “Feet! Those are feet.” Technically horses do have parts that are called “feet.” But ponies very rarely use the word.
  • “Were you invited to the Daring Do premiere?” This is explicitly the premiere of the movie that was shot during Movie Magic, rather than any subsequent showing.
  • “Six cell phones, all straight to voicemail.” Sunset never left Twilight’s library, which means that one of the two must be taking place:

    • The objects in her pockets do not exist while she is transformed into a pony, or otherwise exist only in some manner of pseudospace, entirely disjoint from the normal world.
    • Radio waves do not pass through the portal.

    Could be either.

  • Notably, if Starlight was eating her icecream in the same manner in Equestria, it would be more difficult to get cleaned off, rather than less. Which probably means that her coordination is still shot after the transformation.
  • “You mean Twilight’s student back in Equestria?” The Humane 7 are sufficiently informed about Princess Twilight’s affairs to know who Starlight is.
  • “You really think Princess Twilight would be okay with that?” This is a question brought up multiple times throughout the episode, and yet, we never find out why exactly could Princess Twilight be not okay with more ponies crossing the mirror.
  • When Juniper throws the aforementioned phone display case, none of the items inside it dislodge for some reason. Not only they are faux display props, which is common – they’re also glued on, it seems.
  • “I’ve already made too many mistakes. What I’ve done is… is… unforgivable.” This is actually a pretty strange statement, considering that all that Juniper has done so far involves at most a few thousand dollars worth of property damage, scaring a few people, and illegally detain seven people. Only the latter is particularly serious, and none of that is exactly unforgivable, so I wonder what does Juniper imagine she actually did.
  • Nothing explains just why did Juniper detransform upon letting the Humane 7 out of the mirror. But see the pet theory below.
  • “Manipulated an entire town into giving up their talents so they wouldn’t think they were special.” Notice that this description of Starlight’s activities is considerably different from the one she gave in, say, Rock Solid Friendship – and in fact, her own description of these events becomes harsher over time. More fuel for the Other Sith Theory.
  • “Dear Sunset, some lessons are better learned in action, and you girls are great teachers. Starlight should stay for a few more days. Enjoy the premiere!” Unfortunately, we do not know for how long did the few days last, nor whether Starlight visited Pedestria multiple times from this episode, or this could be used to explain some of her inexplicable absences in Season 6.

More useful canonically than I expected, now that I gave it some thought.

Pet theory

Not supported by anything, but I think it explains a few things rather well.

Pony bodies have dedicated conduits for magical energy and dedicated storage organs, whether dispersed across the body or unified somewhere or whatever. Human bodies do not. Which is why, when humans acquire magic, the energy takes the path of least resistance, which happens to be nervous tissues. That, in turn, suppresses higher consciousness functions, and magic normally spills out as monstrous transformation as the higher consciousness loses control over it, allowing subconscious to take over and do irrational things that do not benefit the wielder at all.

On the other side of the equation, due to magic being contained entirely in the nervous system, humans get a lot more bang for the equivalent expenditure of energy, being able to direct it much more efficiently – hence why, even relatively small quantities of magic leaking through the portal can result in a demonform transformation.

The Humane 7 do not suffer from this effect, because, since they share the magic through the noncorporeal “friendship” gestalt, they do not take in anywhere as much of it as required for this – and/or might have built up an immunity over time. This is notably in play here, as the Humane 7 only feed the mirror enough magic to transform Juniper once all seven of them assemble inside, while the mirror definitely follows her subconscious, rather than conscious commands. This is also responsible for Sunset not being able to study magic rationally in Pedestria: It isn’t where she expects to find it, and the gestalt has a mind of its own.

This, by the way, also explains why certain cases of magic use correspond to glowing eyes both in ponies and in humans: It’s the saturated optic nerve.

Comments ( 11 )

It’s interesting that the other endpoint of Sunset’s original journal remains in the mirror activation apparatus, and there’s no sign of it getting taken out – or being replaced by the new journal, which, incidentally, has a mixture of Sunset’s and Twilight’s cutie marks on the cover, rather than just Sunset’s. Would taking it out to write a response disable the wedge that holds the mirror open?

Given how the connection seems to be kept open through the link between journals, not only yes, but very yes. Trying to force the portal open with the new journals can't work until after one is brought into the human world.
Mind you, I don't see any reason why taking out the old journal and putting it back wouldn't work.

Also, I really like the "thaumic dementia" hypothesis.

  • “Feet! Those are feet.” Technically horses do have parts that are called “feet.” But ponies very rarely use the word.

Starlight never met Fleetfoot. :3

Also the idea of Sunset's aura color change being the result of her Rainbow Rocks redemption was my headcanon, so nice to see it more or less confirmed :)

....due to magic being contained entirely in the nervous system, humans get a lot more bang for the equivalent expenditure of energy, being able to direct it much more efficiently – hence why, even relatively small quantities of magic leaking through the portal can result in a demonform transformation.

Sunset Shimmer: Pop quiz: what happens when you bring an Element of Harmony into an alternate world? You don't know? Seriously? [laughing] And you're supposed to be Princess Celestia's star student?

That does seem to be supported. Perhaps why Old Pre-Redemption Shimmer would bother going back to High School land instead of running away into greater Equestria after nabbing the element.

Though how do you explain Valencia Vignette she seemed not to have any mental tampering or physical corruption from magic. Or are the circuits in a cellphone close to the natural organic 'magic-circuits'?

Are Cellphones magic sinks? :twilightoops:

4960001

Though how do you explain Valencia Vignette she seemed not to have any mental tampering or physical corruption from magic. Or are the circuits in a cellphone close to the natural organic ‘magic-circuits’?

Are Cellphones magic sinks? :twilightoops:

They might be. I guess I’ll have to pick apart that special as well, won’t I? :twilightsmile:

we never find out why exactly could Princess Twilight be not okay with more ponies crossing the mirror.

Well, if we accept comics as canon then we already know an answer - there always a possibility that dimensions start to fuse together. So Twilight most likely run on the logic that more dimensional travelers - more chance that fusion happens.

4960102

Only, Reflections is pretty significantly jossed at this point: It has Twilight wear the Element of Magic crown after she has visited Pedestria, when immediately afterwards, in the first episodes of Season 4, she gives it up to return to the tree. The chronology leaves precious little space for the events of Reflections to take place, and that’s not the only problem…

We've yet to discover how magic from Equestria keeps infecting random objects, probably because the writers want to make sure they keep their plot device free from being contradicted.

  • “With the weight of all Equestria on your shoulders, you must have some advice on how to—” It’s interesting that Sunset, at least, believes that Twilight has government responsibilities, even though we see so few of those in the primary canon.

I think she means "have to be the one to save Equestria from doomsday" more than any governing responsibility.

One other thing to notice is that while Sunset enters the mirror clothed, no clothing appears on her pony form

If someone goes through the portal naked, do they come out in Equestria with a shaved coat?

Only the latter is particularly serious, and none of that is exactly unforgivable, so I wonder what does Juniper imagine she actually did.

I think it's about how Juniper's whole life has been geared towards making movies, and she feels like the movie industry (personified by her uncle) will never truly forgive her enough to let her back in. She may be forgiven enough not to go to jail, but if she can't work in Hollywood she might as well turn into a giant monster or something.

I really like your pet theory. Does that tie into the way the girls have started having more and more elaborate physical transformations over time, IE adding fancy outfits?

4960116
Well, we also have Legends of Magic and whole idea that Equestria surrounded by countless dimensions of darkness who's denizens ready to consume pony world on first chance they got.
So all in all it's looks like transdimensions travels have all sort of dangers and some of them potentially world-ending. So I kinda understand Twilight wish to put a limit on dimensional travelling.

4960122

If someone goes through the portal naked, do they come out in Equestria with a shaved coat?

We’d have to ask Pinkie, she’s the only one likely to try.

She may be forgiven enough not to go to jail, but if she can’t work in Hollywood she might as well turn into a giant monster or something.

That works, I suppose.

Does that tie into the way the girls have started having more and more elaborate physical transformations over time, IE adding fancy outfits?

Maybe – if they are building up immunity over time, that could be one way they get to use magic with more specific control.

Interesting theory about human magic there. I like it.

4960001

That does seem to be supported. Perhaps why Old Pre-Redemption Shimmer would bother going back to High School land instead of running away into greater Equestria after nabbing the element.

That would imply that becoming a demon was her plan, which I don't think it was. And if her plan revolved around exploiting the fact that humans need less magical energy for their spells than ponies do, then surely she could've just brought any random enchanted object through the portal instead of specifically waiting four years for the Elements of Harmony to exist again? Juniper Montage didn't need a legendary magical artefact of ancient Equestrian history to transform; she just had a magic mirror enchanted by stray energy pulled from the air. And that's not to mention that this aspect of magic in the human world is what confused Sunset and prompted her to study it during and after Rainbow Rocks, whereas whatever she intended for the Element of Magic, she acted like she knew what she was doing.

I actually think Sunset's reasoning for going to the human world has more to do with accessing the Element of Magic in the first place. See my comment here for reasoning on that.

Though how do you explain Valencia Vignette she seemed not to have any mental tampering or physical corruption from magic. Or are the circuits in a cellphone close to the natural organic 'magic-circuits'?

Are Cellphones magic sinks? :twilightoops:

Well, Twilight's magic-detector in Friendship Games somehow trapped magic inside itself, even though Twilight never designed it to do that. There may well be something about complex electrical devices that attracts or interferes with magic. And if this is true on both sides of the portal, it might actually go some way towards explaining the state of pony technology.

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