On comments and the deletion thereof. · 2:57pm Oct 10th, 2018
Dear FiMFiction...
While I don't usually particularly like Numbers and in fact find him personally grating, I admire him professionally a great deal.
He writes a column / blog called Wholesome Rage, and pretty well sums here everything I could possibly say that's currently going on with The Untrotted Path and the bubbling shitstorm that is its comments section.
Mentioning or discussing certain aspects of the story, or events that occur, that do or do not work for you or that you did or did not like is fine- and you'll notice there are multiple comments where An Adult conveys that he is unsatisfied with the time skip or whatever his issue may be that are left intact.
What you will not see is the numerous comments that attacked the story based on those merits or whose negativity was centered around their personal perception of me. These people who have never met me, never spoken to me before, but someone else in the comment section called me irrational or thin-skinned for not appreciating insults or incitement of drama bringing my rating down. As those get deleted because a blank comment is better than a personal attack.
Before you comment, remember that your comment will be one of the first things a potential reader sees- You are part of my public image, as much as you are your own. Attacking me or having drawn-out flamewars across the comment section reflects badly upon yourself, and leads people to vote or comment based on whomever is "winning" the argument rather than the merits of the story itself. It also colors the perspective of a reader, so a lot of the commentary was also bandwagoning- people parroting the same opinions as others rather than their own.
It's enough to lead a writer to disable comments, but I've never been one to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's enough to discourage a writer, make them feel worthless and hated. But I have good commenters and people generally seem to enjoy it so I will not cease writing.
One of the things people lost their shit over was my statement that a comment written by FanOfMostEverything was the only one worth listening to. It's not in the interest of echo-chambering and any claim otherwise is retarded- there's several negative comments whose points were posed maturely that are left up. It is partially because FOME is someone I consider a friend, which I'll admit does feel a little unfair that I value the commentary of a friend over strangers- but then again I am Twilight, so it comes with the territory that Friends Are Everything.
FOME is the only one worth listening to because his comments are always maturely posed, he always has something thoughtful to say, and if he has something negative it's softened with something he does like. FOME doesn't give a shit how you feel about a certain story beat or a scene, his take will always be based on his own thoughts of it faithfully.
To everyone else who wants to have a go, your arms ain't quite long enough to box with God. To those who grumble about how my practice of chlorinating the comment pool to reduce the toxicity reflects on my ability as a writer... When it was first published, Path sat at #1 Featured for five days. Before the recent shitstorm incited a 30 someodd point downvote brigade, it rode the top slot on the Updated section of the Featured Box. It was also ranked somewhere around 1,000th- or more highly rated than 99.94% of stories on the site, roughly. Currently it sits around 13,000th, which is still somewhere in the top tenth percentile- literally more highly rated than 90% of fics on the site.
It is favorited and read by some (overwhelmingly) huge writers, such as Wanderer D and Shinzakura. Early in its life I also received a tracking notification from Albinocorn.
In summary. Before you hit "post" on a comment, do some thinking about what the tone of your comment is; if it's a personal attack, if it attacks the story or myself rather than calmly and maturely discusses a beat that didn't sit well with you. Think about how your comment is going to reflect on people's perception of the story, and whether or not it reflects poorly on you. Think about whether your comment is thoughtful or rational, or if it's just mindless screeching because REEE I'VE NEVER READ ROBERT FROST SO THE STORY PREMISE IS LOST ON ME REEE.
To those who wish to criticize and attack me for choices made in the outlining and storyboarding of this story long before any of you ever read a single word of it- get on my fucking level.
To everyone else, thank you for your kind words- even the negative ones! Without bright sparks like you talking about what you liked, didn't like, what you hoped to see or not, or what your interpretation of events were I probably would be less motivated to write. You, the Mature Adult Commenter, are what makes The Untrotted Path great.
Your faithful student, Twilight Sparkle.
It's stuff like this as to why I have not posted anything to Fimfiction as of yet. I see all of these Flamewars and negative-nancy-I-will-kill-your-story Critics that pick out the thinnest of issues and run with them that makes me want to AVOID posting anything here.
Now don't get me wrong, A Flamewar can lead to useful feedback at times, but it's those Critics that are out to destroy a story simply due to the fact that they don't like <Insert reason/story plot/OC character depiction/character bash here> that they feel entitled to do their BEST to make sure said story doesn't gain popularity and to make sure it crash and burns.
I have seen it happen on stories that were really getting good, only to have this one Triggered Twat of a wanna-be Critic say something and then watch as it snowballs from there to the point that the Author just cancels it.
It's a sad way for stories to go and I really hope you don't take this one Triggered Twat seriously and just keep doing what you are doing, your story WILL survive this and it WILL thrive.
I had this issue when I first started here then they slowly vanished if you don't let them get the best of you then you don't have to worry about them.
Thank you for this post, I must say. I've had experience with certain types of commentators and their tones, (Only thing I'm going to say on the matter is that cloppers are unreasonable little shits) so hearing someone else have a similar experience with me and actually offering advice on this matter is such a relief. Knowing that it's not just me who's had troubles with overly condescending commentators.
You can't ever win against critics. If you're trying to pull a victory over some critics, you've already lost something more valuable: the big picture. Critics only matter as much as you let them matter. And author response is how they feed. Any author reaction -any- is, to a critic, better than no reaction. Because they were noticed, and made the author react, which makes them have power over the author. This is thankfully a good thing a lot of the time... but when the "critic" only wants to hurt, you are doing yourself a great disservice in showing any kind of reaction at all. Those kinds of "critics" are quite similar to the kind of fantasy beast that lives under bridges.
Just remember these valuable words by Jean Sibelius: "No-one has raised a statue of a critic." Give each critic the exact attention they deserve; let the malignant ones starve in your shadow.
Well said.
Now I just gotta read the story before I comment anything.
Can confirm though that negative comments can turn me away from a story. I often look at the top comments on a story before I commence reading. Time is limited and I am less likely to give a story a chance if people tell me it's bad.
Though about comments. Nothing is worse than a spoiler!
(At least in my opinion.)
I really need to read this story. Been in my read later for a while and I keep getting updates of this caliber. Something interesting MUST be waiting inside.
I admit the direction this story took was unexpected, but I am curious enough to keep seeing where it goes, so imma just avoid doing a dumb,
I want to start by saying I'm sorry that you're having comment problems. I've dealt with personal attacks in comments before by users who brag about not reading the story before downvoting, and it sucks.
That said, it's unfortunate that you start your thesis of "attacking me in comments is bad" by attacking another Fimfiction writer on your blog. There was no reason to tell us you don't like Mr. Numbers and find him annoying.
As for the argument, I agree that nonconstructive comments are generally unhelpful. However, when you respond to comments in a childish way like "fuck off" and delete the comments you're responding to, even if the comments you deleted were also childish and had nothing to do with the story, it reflects poorly on you as a writer. Doing this makes it look like you can't handle criticism, because we don't get to see what the original comments actually said. This discourages people from commenting at all because readers cannot determine why you are deleting comments and blocking users, and this is why readers on Fimfiction react so negatively to comment deletion. The fact that users are flooding you with negative comments might be a useful data point: this is happening in part because of how you are reacting to criticism (even though the criticism may be completely unfair).
There will always be haters and trolls. Engaging with them in the way you're doing only encourages more hate, which will make your story comments an even bigger mess and lead to downvotes by users who haven't read the story. It might make you feel better, but that feeling comes with a price tag.
4951255
I actually see the point of it, since the intent is to establish that there is a recognized difference between personal and professional/artistic perception.
The thrust of this blog, at least as I can see it, is not that it’s bad to attack someone in comments, but that it’s bad to attack someone’s artistic/professional endeavors based on opinions of their person (or perceived person). Put differently, it is a request to separate the art/article/invention/whatever from the individual.
That’s what I took out of it, at least.
4951262
I don't think it serves that purpose at all. Comments like "I don't like you and find you irritating" are precisely what RPT is complaining about in this blog post.
4951255
...
Can I ask who Robert Frost is and how its Related to Untrotted path. Because either I misunderstood something or there is a Fascinating story out there that I have never read, and it would give a lot of context to where this story is going.
By the way as for all the hate that your getting in the comments, some of it looks like its being caused because your responding to hate... then deleting the hate but leaving up your responses. and I have seen like 3/4th of those comments that you deleted and yeah I think only 2 of them might not have deserved it (and some of them were just an argument that had nothing to do with your story and were instead about the right to Critique... which doesn't belong in your comments) it might help that when some one is being an ass to just delete the post rather then reply to it, or delete your replies along with their posts once you realize that they have nothing worth hearing. that way people don't see your reactions but lack the context of what caused it, which can look really bad to people just showing up.
Again just my two cents but if it pisses you off and is just cyber bulling then delete it and move on, don't deign these ass hats by responding to them.
4951285
If you ever feel like giving up because of trolls, please send me a list of the trolls that you're dealing with.
I won't tell you anything else because plausible deniability
Just know you have my support.
Love your story BTW
tis awesome sauce
4951276
Well, we’ll just have to disagree on that, I think. But you gave me a civil and respectful answer, and I appreciate that.
4951357
You have a good point, don't get me wrong. I agree that's probably RPT's intent, so I should take back the "precisely"—I'm referring more to how I think the statement is likely to be perceived than what she intended.
Comment deletion is a tricky thing. My husband is pro-delete, actually. He has a Fimfiction account for a story he started but didn't do anything with after the first couple of chapters. It involves rape so it drew a lot of negative comments that have nothing to do with the story. He didn't incite as much drama with his responses, but his view is that he owns the story, so it's his prerogative which comments should stay up when specific comments don't contribute anything useful. I don't really agree with him; I think it still feeds the trolls to delete user comments, even if you're respectful toward the readers you delete and/or block. In his case his deletion so incensed an author that the author continued commenting with a sock account after being blocked (for which the author received a one-week suspension by the mods).
4952183
I can dig it.
As to comment deletions and user blocking, I look at it like this: If someone came into your house, made a nuisance of themselves and threw eggs on the walls, I doubt that anyone would fault you for cleaning things up and asking them to leave.
What is a story here if not an apartment that you’re leasing from knighty, to manage as you see fit in accordance with the terms and conditions of the lease agreement?
4952219
I love your analogy.
If someone were to preface their comment by saying that their intent is to offer constructive criticism, and you disagreed with their criticism, even if they were courteous and polite about it, would you delete that comment? I'm just curious.
4959070
i dont care anymore
4970381
Wow nice fukkin necro nerd lmao
4971129
One more time, in English, please. I don't speak...teenager? Yeah, I'm going to say teenager.
Ooh! Or, to put it more succinctly,
besides, in my comment, I basically agreed with you that the question was dumb! All I said was that the way that you said that the question was dumb was a bit harsh!
4971205
"Pardon me sire but you seem to have performed the act of necromancy, as in raising of the dead, on a thread which is dead and done with, as in you have replied a full month later and your input is annoying and unnecessary. In the future please allow sleeping dogs to lie."
4971230
Thank you for not using Teenager speak the second time. Also, for how eloquently you put that, you have earned these!
4978601
Lel it's like you think I'm inviting discourse or something.
i.pinimg.com/originals/90/b9/fd/90b9fd431673c1781f0d61947aef4f45.jpg
Other than a grammar lesson about double negatives inferring the positive, we could learn a lot from Thumper.
Yep. Of course, I always have tried to be civil with any criticism I have made, especially with fan works, it took me actually writing something for me to understand exactly the effects that comments can have - even when made with good intentions, but worded badly.
And I've lost count of the people that think prefacing a statement with "I'm just going to make some constructive criticism" means that it can't be hurtful.
I am not popular enough where I've had to delete any comments yet, but I certainly understand the need to do so.
it is at this point, the commenters realized, they fucked up.
Oh, wait, no we didn't, because we are, as a whole, idiots, assholes, shitty roleplayers, and People in general.
5031658
Gonna Preface this with the fact that I didn't expect a reply, much less one so far down the line.
The most I can say is you do you, if you don't think a story will do good here then don't post it. But I think some times you just have to bite the
bulletComment section and do your best, irregardless of if the story is good or not. I don't think we would have some of the most Classic or well known stories that we do now if their authors gave into fear of posting.Haven't read the story yet, but I'm sorry you felt the need to post such a blog.
5037479
Yes, it was quite a trying time. But I've moved on, and things are better now.
You can assist with the moving on and making things better by leaving some love on Path and perhaps Pursuing Happiness? That's going seriously under-read.
5037481
I have a specific palate and limited time, but I'll give it a try.
Can't make any promises, though.
...alrighty then.
You've explained and justified your deletion certain comments.
But what about those who are trying to give a provide a bit of humorous commentary, or some harmless ribbing?
Most of mine have been there, as far as I recall.
And before you hit me with a deletion, either because it's me, or whatever else, this is an honest question. Some of us simply wish to be amusing, and I count myself among those.
5037636
I don't appreciate being made fun of. I also don't know who you are.
5037641
Didn't think you'd need a reminder, Inspired
But then again, you're not the only one who changes their Face from time to time
>Previous iteration identified: The Faceless Maker
Does that help any?
5037650
Nope.
5037651
noone likes crack-roleplay.
I disagree; in my experience, you're more of an outlier
5037652
Ah. Because your comments are cringy, vaguely threatening, and against the rules darling.
5037680
vaguely threatening? I... what?
No, I'll tackle that one later.
First, what rules? do you have a pre-established set of rules that I should've been aware of before commenting on any of your works? or does FIMfiction have rules regarding what commentators can or can't say? Either way, I'd love to see the list, to see what I'm doing wrong.
5037698
Yes? The ToS and comment guidelines explicitly ban roleplaying anywhere on the site.
5037721
and that right there is why one should actually read the terms of service...
On that note, I'm going to go over the terms of service, so that something like this doesn't happen again!
5037728
I told you every time I deleted one of your cringe RP comments that I didn't appreciate it and it was against the rules.
5037732
Exhibit A: I'm a bit of a troll/shitposter. This means that I'm a contrary bastard who is far more likely to do what others want me to if I think it's what they don't want me to do.
Exhibit B: I was, at the time, ignorant of the relevant rules and regulations, and I'm also a paranoid bastard, and since I had no actual proof that what I was doing was against the rules, I just assumed that you were BSing me. Or I didn't notice. They're both equally likely.
Exhibit C: Everyone I'd done it to before had been amused, and my actions have almost universally received upvotes and/or audience participation. prior to you, I'm fairly sure that Texus was the only one who didn't enjoy my antics. And I certainly never had The Rules called on me before our altercation.
5048261
Content removed for inanity and irrelevancy.
4951309
The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost
I think this is what is referred to. In case no one else answered.
5065634
… god damn it, I freaking love that poet and I am disappointed in myself that I didn't figure that out. thanks for that btw. :)