And now, nerd rage! · 12:33am Sep 12th, 2018
So, this total idiot is making lore and theory videos without doing even the tiniest bit of googling, and insists that a lightsaber would cut though a power sword from 40K. I need to nerd rant. Publicly. Sorry 
We all know what a lightsaber is. Most of you won't know what a power sword is. A power sword is a seemingly normal sword made from adamantine, but when you grab it the blade is covered in a diintigration field so anything you touch with it is ripped apart at the atomic level. The power sword itself is also mono-molecular, meaning iot's sharpened down to a single atom at the edge. In short, the power sword cuts through damn near anything by either disintegrating a path through the target, or cleaving molecules themselves apart via it's quantum-thin edge.
For some reason, it seems like most people are unaware that lightsabers have limitations. Lightsabers cannot cut through everything, there are materials they can only scratch, and others they can't touch at all. Many things they can't cut through are not "force powered" materials, IE they are mundane, non-magical, normal bits of matter. Some are even organic, such as the exoskeletons of a species of a paracitic crab Darth Bane used as armor, and Yusang Vong bio-armor.
More to the point regarding power swords vs sabers, lighsabers cannot do more than scratch the material known as Beskergam aka Mandalorian Iron. This is because Besker is so atomically dense and conductive the lightsaber simply doesn't have enough energy to transfer into any object made of Beskergam to damage it, because the heat is evenly transferred through the material almost instantly, and it's specific heat capacity is incredibly high.
There are also other normal materials a lightsaber can't cut, which have been used to make swords and other melee tools expressly for fighting Jedi with. A very notable example is cortosis ore, which in small quantities can be used to make alloy blades a saber can't cut. In larger amounts a saber blade contacting cortosis ore will short out and switch off becoming inoperable for several moments. A cortosis induced short can even burn out the lightsaber's emitter, IE the material can render a lightsaber as bricked as that cellphone you tried to root.
The reason this occurs is due to the cortosis ore disrupting the patterns in the saber's plasma stream by pulling and pushing at the plasma, disrupting it's flow and leading to a "surge" of energy when the plasma that is blocked up by the ore flows back into the emitter.
Now that we've established a saber's limits, let's talk about the materials that make up a power sword. Adamantine is described very similarly to beskergam, but must be even more tough because it can survive being sheathed in the Nemesis Field. This is a metal that is totally cool with being placed inside an atomic disintegration field all day, every day. The lightsaber could not cut a power sword due to the properties of 40K adamantine matching a Star Wars material lightsabers cannot damage, and even exceeding them in terms of durability.
What's more, it's also possible that the nemesis field of a power sword could short out the lightsaber just like cortosis ore. The field is described as working by pushing and pulling molecular bonds until they rip apart. If this results in the saber's plasma getting "blocked up" it would short the blade out just like our ore which should really have been used to plate armor with since it also causes blaster bolts to fizzle out and harmlessly dissipate (>.> but that's a rant for another day) might works similarly to a cortosis ore plated blade, and short out the lightsaber, but that's not necessarily going to happen.
In conclusion, so called theroists need to actually read up on what they are talking about because NO they DON'T know the lore of each universe well enough to even determine what happens when two basic weapons clash in their little crossover scenario.
TLDR; We see in 40K novels that plasma swords (which exist in 40K too) can clash with a power sword, and the power sword is just fine...
Let us now properly calculate what would happen if a squad of space marines encountered a Jedi Knight and their padiwan. Before we begin, I am going to state for the record that I love both universes very very much, and while I don't personally know all the lore from each I am that obsessed fangril who reads EVERYTHING!
What a Jedi is: A jedi is a physically normal person whose able to attune themselves to the force much more than ordinary people, and thereby can channel the force to accomplish many amazing feats. They were taken from their families at a young age, as are all force sensative children, and raised by warrior-monks to be diplomats first, police officers second, and warriors last. They give up ideas like close personal bonds (frinedship and family included) and become something like a Shaolin monk, only instead of kungfu, they have mild telekinesis, mind tricks, and plasma swords. They are feared and respected, and seen as elite warriors by the galaxy for good reason, but are not that much more powerful than a non-force-user who trains their ass off all day every day (See Boba Fett, and the many many normal people who have killed legions worth of Jedi.)
What a Space Marine is: A space marine was the best of the best physically and mentally among the young boys of his generation. He did not grow up in a happy family, he grew up on a world that had been intentionally made as horrible and terrible and violent as possible, with the marines running that recruitment world intentionally unleashing alien monsters and causing natural disasters to create feudal kingdoms of iron-age level which exist in constant states of total war at all times.
The greatest child-soldiers produced by that recruitment world are taken by the Marines, whom the planet thinks of as gods, and those children are... Not made into marines, they are put into somehow even more brutal training environments, where the vast majority of them die horribly. Those who survive this purging of those who are not Master Chief, are then made into Space Marines.
A space marine is made by genetically altering a human in a long, long, long process which lasts from age 10-12 to age 18. The process takes a normal human and turns them into a 8-9 foot tall gorilla-man with extra organs that give them super powers. These organs are:
Secondary Heart
- Can survive having one heart damaged or removed. While still fighting.
Ossmodula
- Makes their bones almost indestructible. It also makes their rib cage fused into a solid mass of bulletproof, interlocking plates. Without impacting their flexibility.
Biscopea
- grants actual super strength of the "Can lift a truck overhead and throw it at you" variety.
Haemastamen
- Hyperoxygenates blood for super human endurance, and also powering their super-organs.
Larraman's Organ
- Gives the marine Wolverine-like regeneration. If you stabbed a marine, that knife comes out, 1 second later the wound is scarred over and may as well have never happened. You need to cause massive trauma to hurt a marine.
Catalepsean Node
Allows the Marine to stay awake for 2 weeks with no ill effects, and only need 4 hours of sleep.
Preomnor
- Lets the marine digest basicaly anything, even stuff that would kill you instantly.
Omophagea
- Lets a marine READ MINDS BY EATING PEOPLE!
Multi-lung
- Filters out airborn toxins and lets them breath in low oxygen environments.
Occulobe
- This is the thing that lets the psycho-conditioning and hypnotherapy given to a Marine actually program them like a robot.
Lyman's Ear
- Immunity to dissyness and motion sickness, and also the ability to filter out sounds while focusing on other sounds.
Sus-an Membrane
- Allows the marine to enter suspended animation.
Melanchromic Organ
- Highly increased radiation resistance.
Oolitic Kidney
- poison immunity.
Neuroglottis
- Makes the sence of taste so good that the marine can identify any compound with a lick, and even track a target by TASTE!
Mucranoid
- Litteraly a heat/cold resistant jumpsuit the marien can make by sweating it on (ew...) which is so good it can work as a space suit for a few minutes (awesome!)
Betcher's Gland
- Ever see a spitting cobra spit venom? That, but the marine's can eat through metal in minutes.
Progenoids
- Sex organs that make the genetic material used to clone organs used for making new marines.
Black Carapace
- Technically an organ, also technicality a cybernetic implant, it allows a marine's mind to be directly linked to their armor and weapons so their equipment is a literal extension of their body.
Damn, that's a lot of stuff! And that's without the NEXT step in making a Space Marine. That's the mental programming that turns an enhanced human into an unfeeling murder machine which only feels joy when purging the enemies of the God-Emperor. The marine is litteraly programed like a robot to be unable to feel fear, have a lust for battle, and enhanced loyalty, among other things.
Then the marine is given psi training. Yes. That terrifying ex-human monster is also "force sensitive". Not all of them can throw lightning bolts or levitate things, but they do all have spider-man grade reflexes and jedi-like precognition of danger.
Then this monster is trained to fight wizards, daemons, aliens, and THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF MARINES WHO WENT TRAITOR AND ARE FURTHER ENHANCED BY ACTUAL MAGIC VIA DAEMONS! After training, the marine lives with his Battle-Brothers in something very much like a monastic order of medieval knights, knowing a life of nothing but training to kill the enemies of mankind.
Then, and only then, does the Marine get his power armor. Yes. They put the bio-warrior-wizard-monster into power armor. Which he can control like a body part, so it doesn't hinder him at all. In fact, it further boosts his strength, speed, agility, and endurance...
Oh, and he's also got an enhanced lifespan, so he will have centuries of combat experience, if he's survived that long, at least.
And then everything else in the 40K universe eats him for breakfast. Seriously, as OP as the Marine is, he's nothing in his own universe. Literally nothing. (which makes normal humans the dust that nothing is made from...)
So, this guy:
Who dies to a guy in cloth with a hot staff.
Squares up to fight this guy:
Who isn't really a man, he's a terrifying murder-machine, as you can see here:
and here:
https://youtu.be/dmK9HrlskXU?t=1m45s
(If you watch all of that, ignore the marines dropping like flies. They are fighting what amount to Ancient Sith Lords the likes of Exar Kun, Bane, and so on...)
Seriously, a Marine sees that the Zerg have infested Cathulu and goes "I'ma solve this problem with my chainsaw!" Then he probably DOES!
So! Marine vs Jedi.
The warrior-monk in some cloth robes with a fancy plasma sword and some mild psi-abilities, along with their unpaied inturn square off against 8 of these 8 foot tall super powered psycotic murder-machine gorilla-men clad in power armor whose specifically trained to kill people like the Jedi for being people like the Jedi while on his way to try and murder a deamon alla Doom Guy, all of whom are carrying tools meant for nullifying psychic power, and who have weapons the Jedi cannot simply cut through.
You do the math.
Neeeerd
still put my money to the clone troopers.
This is what comes of putting a light setting against the setting that the term grimdark was coined for.
Heheheh, it is amusing to watch Starwars fans defend their universe against anything in Warhammer 40k.
In reality, Warhammer is just Over Powered in comparison to everything, even things in itself, and thus, everything else in itself becomes more OP to counter it.
Then it goes on, and on, and on. XD
...
So, uh, I'll just go back to the Galactic Federation, thank you. Live long and prosper.
Um... 1+1 = 2. Yes.
TL;DR: Space Marines OP, please nerf
.
4936110 I vastly prefer Startrek to SW r 40K too XD Star Wars is... probalematic, and 40K is literally the orgion of the phrase grimdark (It's marketing tagline is "In the grim darkness of the future there is only war.") Trek is how I want the future to be :3
4936165 Oh man, you say that now, but then you read any 40K story and watch 90 of them die to an ELdar Assasain and you suddenly go "Oh christ, this is Lovecraftian where the best humanity can make is almost not enough..."
As cool as Space Marines are, I've always preferred the Imperial Guard. There's just something about a regular human taking on the same things as the precision-engineered super-human monster, and occasionally even coming out on top.
The Astartes may have strength of body, but the Guard has strength of heart.
Pity The Guardsman... If you dare.
4936251 The imperial guard are regular guy you say? I counter that idea with:
4936251
Normal height Imperial Guard looking up at an 8 foot tall Space Marine
"You're not brave. Men are brave"
4936270 "You're standing in soiled trousers, sir."
"Be that as it may..."
4936251
oh god that speech always puts me in proud tears
so someone made a video about how the flood from halo would beat the tyranids, what is your say on this matter?
Power s
4936052
Well, not in comparison to EVERYTHING.
There are works out there-The Xeelee Sequence, the Culture Sequence, and the expanded universe of Doctor Who that come to mind (and really even the show could do it depending on the writer...) that would stomp 40k flat.
4936222
To be sure, Star Trek has its OWN deathgalaxy problems, they're just not quite as overwhelming as those in 40k since the locals are able to SCIENCE their way through the problems. Stay out of the delta quadrant, though, that's where Voyager dwells.
4936264
Do not speak his name. I hear that saying it aloud 3 times will invoke his presence.
And there's nothing more human than beating the odds through the power of machismo (and considerable PTSD).
4936272
Bravery is not being unafraid, but pushing on despite fear.
...Um. Wow, I can now see how you managed to figure out the space station thing in Ark now.
I would have agreed anyway, but man is that a lot of supporting evidence!
4936315
Eh, I'd disagree, but I really don't know those universes enough to give a valid argument.
At the same time though, have you seen the lore for Orks? I’m glad they aren’t like that in the tabletop…
4936549
Well...let me put it this way...
One demilitarized Culture Ship would solo every remotely conventional 40k fleet...from the next starsystem over. They're not the most powerful faction in their home universe by a long shot.
Xeelee Nightfighters are in some ways less of a conventional ROFL stomp as they can be meaningfully fought by ships in the same system as them with human/humanesque reaction times...but they make up for this by spamming time travel like 40k spams ammunition. The Xeelee as a whole are even more ridiculous, what with deflecting entire galaxies thrown against their superstructures, stopping FVC's caused whenever a younger race does something stupid, trapping galaxies in a bubble in time, and running a massive computational time loop spanning from just after the big bang to...I forget when, exactly.
4936598
Well, unless the sound of the gun can be heard from the Ork Fleet, it will deal no damage. And depending on the amount of noise the Orks can hear, it could deal any range of damage.
Depending on the size of the fleet, the Orks might just board the ship through the warp, and then steal the 'Dakka' and use it next time you fight them. You may be able to kill off the first batch, but if so much as one Ork survives, the next fleet will find a way to deal with the gun.
I don't mean to cast doubt, but you have to give the Orks credit. Given enough time, they will find a way to defeat you. And if they board, then in a month or so, you'll have Orks infesting the ship.
There is a reason they are such a pain to deal with.
EDIT: Also, once the Orks find out you're timetraveling, they will learn to do the same. There is already a case of an Ork going back in time to steal his own gun, so it's likely to happen again.
4936608
Um. No. Orks aren't THAT good at warping reality. Maybe the Beast or the Krorks could have pulled off a stunt like that with some preparation, but if you put enough oomph into your weapons, they'll still blow up, Orkish belief or no Orkish belief. Besides, even if sound WERE the key to destroying an Ork ship, culture ships can make noise no problem. Just teleport a firecracker next to the ears of every ork and BOOM! there goes the ork ship!
...the thing is, not only does the culture shoot at ships from around 4 lightyears away, they do not consider supernovas a significant threat, they have their choice of: antimatter, blackhole, gravity, hacking, slicing, dicing, and more conventional weaponry to choose from as they please, they counter-teleport hostile ammunitions in a really fast game of hot potato, and their fleet engagements are over in microseconds. Entire fleet engagements are over in microseconds for the Culture against roughly peer ships. Nevermind the fact that Culture Ships spend most of their time in hyperspace, which only the Necrons are likely to spot.
Furthermore, boarding a Culture Ship is an exercise in futility even if you DO manage to tellyport onboard; there's no controls or exposed systems to hijack, no crew (at most passengers), just the Mind, and that's if the Ship is humoring you and letting you run around the completely non-critical passenger quarters. If not...well...you've been cut to ribbons before you can say "boo" or displaced into the functionally infinite energy field known as The Grid or blown up with a nuke (which won't affect anything else BUT you because the explosion will be vented away)...
Really, only Chaos or MAYBE the nightbringer has any chance at subverting a Culture Ship, and *even then* it's up against some of the best conventional anti-subversive defenses in fiction; it's far more likely to trigger the self-destruct failsafes to prevent subversion than it is to actually corrupt one.
BTW IIRC there was a case of Orks looting some necron tech, only for the local necron lord to go "nope, you can't use it anymore", much to the disappointment of the Orks. If even the Necrons-who are inferior to the Culture in most categeories-can keep orks from using their stuff, the Mind running the Ship will have no difficulty doing likewise.
The orks CAN time travel...but they're not able to spam it willy-nilly. NO 40k race can spam it willy nilly. Even CHAOS can't do that whenever they want and they're supposed to be acausual eldritch abominations. The necrons have what is probably the most reliable time travel in the franchise, and they have to be careful with it because it usually makes things worse, both for them and for everyone around them. The only way the orks could POSSIBLY get to the point where they can do that is if they can go beyond beast and back to Krork levels, and that's not something they can do whenever they want.
When I say the Xeelee spam it like 40k spams ammunition, I mean it. Star trek uses it once in a while. 40k uses it once in a while. the Xeelee live and breathe time travel freely in a way that would make the Timelords do a doubletake; tactically to ensure a battle goes the way they want, strategically, and grand-strategically.
For comparison, Xeeleeverse humanity mastered timetravel to the point where they could pretty much shape the history of the galaxy however they wanted, or erase themselves from history and yet continue existing.
It didn't help one whit against the Xeelee, who when they REALLY got serious smacked humanity down like a redheaded stepchild.
The orks need to get a decent sized waaaagh going to make attack moons.
The Xeelee ram stars with relativistic stars to destroy photino bird nesting sites.
The guns on every nightfighter-which is their most basic unit-are able to trigger supernovas.
The orks...just can't escalate fast enough to take on EITHER of these opponents. The entire war in heaven that set the stage for 40k is but a playground spat next to the xeelee war with the photino birds, and while the Culture isn't quite at that level, the difference is academic when all your ships go BOOM and you can't even see your enemy.
4936630
Ok, first off, I mean no offence, and I have a feeling you're getting really defensive. I'll keep things civil on my end, but please don't have this devolve into a shit-fight.
As for Orks warping reality, they are. If there is enough of them, and they think something works, it will. That is what makes Orks work.
They don't reload, because they don't think they need to. Wearing purple makes them invisible, because that is their logic. They don't need control panels, because they will make their own, and hack the ship through sheer stupidity.
As for the Teleporting comment, it is very common. Just uncontrollable by most races.
Whenever anything travels into the warp, and out again, there is a chance they will appear in another timeline. For example, two ships can go into the warp, each going to the same place. But, one might arrive three seconds after it started, and the other might appear three years before it left.
If there is a big enough WAAAGH! they'll figure out how to do it. That is just how Orks work.
And, if you kill them, that will attract more. Because they follow fights. And if you give them a fight they can't win, they will keep throwing things at it until they do.
Oh? You killed the biggest WAAAGH! ever? Well. Now all of the Orks in existence are after you.
Then, the Imperium will wonder where the Orks are, and then find the battle. And knowing Admec, they will insist on joining simply because you have Tech they don't have. Then souls start dying, Chaos turns their attention to it.
Then it continues, until you have every single race in that system.
Give it enough time, and Daemon Primarchs start showing, and following them, Grey Knights, loyal Primarchs (So excited they are coming back soon ^^), Living Saints, etc.
I have no doubt you might win for the first couple encounters, but the Humans will steal your shit, and catch up. They might be against using Xeno tech, but there will always be some that will anyway. (cough cough, The Magos, cough cough)
And, if you manage to put Humanity on death's door, then you've got the Legion of the fucking Damned to deal with. Everysingle soul you killed, all coming back, again, to kill you. Including the ones using Tech lost in the Dark Ages of Tech.
Orks will simply be the first to fight you, everything else will follow.
4936432 Uh, did you comment on the right blog?
4936630 4936684 Guys, You're both right. Orks can warp reality any way they want, but it's not conscious. They can't choose it, it has to be genuine belief. What Orks do is make their RELIGION true. You need lot s of orks sincerely believing that something will work for it to work. They couldn't choose to believe that teleports would work to make them work because belief isn't something you choose.
This is because their psi-power (exception to wierdboyz, who are DEFECTS) Orks have one singular voice in the warp, and their power is god-like, but diluted across all orks. YOu need a lot of them to TRULY believe something as fact for the effect to manifest.
4936684
Not so much defensive as I'm in vs debate mode here, and while I'm not the MOST familiar with 40k I AM familiar with 40k in a vs debate and I'm familiar with the culture.
I'm not sure if you're still massively understimating The Culture or massively overestimating the Orks. As Meep pointed out, the orks can't just willy nilly believe whatever they want to believe. I would add that simply not knowing anything about an enemy is NOT the same thing as believing it can't hurt them. Not by a longshot. And hey, when waagh after waagh simply...stops existing, there is no possible way the orks can all bring themselves to believe "it can't possibly hurt me!"'
Second, I think you're massively misunderstanding what would happen in a "fight" between a Culture Ship and an Ork Waagh.
There won't BE a proper fight. Simply a waagh that ceases to exist; leftover piles of scrap like giant warning signs are optional. If there WERE a proper fight, maybe you'd be right and before you know it the Culture would be facing every ork in the universe, with reality breaking down to the point that Culture Tech stops functioning properly....but that's not going to happen because there WON'T be a proper fight, nevermind a proper tarpit like the octarius war.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Octarius_War
The daleks put it best:
Edit: meep, would you like us to take this to PMs?
4936851
I believe Meep was politely attempting to get us to stop, so I'll let this be for now. It was a pleasure, though I think it is best to agree to disagree.
4936854 4936851Not at all, you're free to keep debating this, but keep it to a debate, not an argument.
4936854
Welll...I have a few more things to say.
First, you might find "The Culture Explores Warhmmer 40k" to be worth a read, regardless of if you agree with me or not.
It's a crossover that was inspired by a Giant In the Playground debate about the Culture vs Warhammer 40k, where by and large, everyone agreed that Chaos was the only real threat to the Culture, though a few people came into the debate early on who, like you, did not really understand the Culture.
awesome moments include, but are not limited to:
An archaeological expidition to a necron tombworld which starts waking up while they're there. Hilarity ensues.
Contact agents try to see if they can reform the Orks, since its not clear if the orks are an Aggressive Hegemonizing swarm or not. Hilarity ensues.
A rogue trader slowly realizes just how powerful the Culture actually is and politely asking if he can have a new ship to replace the one he'd just lost.
Bitchslapping the Dark Eldar and shoving them into stasis until they can reform them one by one.
Overall, for all that 40k is an over the top ridiculous setting in its own way, at the end of the day it's subtly restricted in power levels and abilities by the necessity of keeping guardsmen remotely relevant in combat. Hordes of guardsmen with shitty equipment (occasionally nothing more than a knife!) can, at massive, MASSIVE cost of life, hold the line against tides of superhuman monstrosities, and this is as surely an important part of the setting as over-the-top reality warping abilities are. Even the War in Heaven (and with it the Krorks, aka the Orcs before they degraded) and the ruinous powers themselves are in many ways restricted by this fact, and the former is ancient, often nebulous history while the latter is in its own realm with its own rules!
The Culture...is NOT restricted by this trope. Banks wanted a society with certain problems solved, figured out what tech was needed to solve those problem, and asked himself what some of the ramifications of that tech would be...and it turned out that going so, so deeply post-scarcity the way he envisioned made infantry irrelevant. The guardsmen wouldn't be able to hold the line against the Culture because there would be no line to hold. The entire planet wouldn't matter strategically, only politically. Phasers and lightsabers can be reverse engineered from a work of fiction and given out at a party with no concerns. Outdated handguns from when infantry was still kinda relevant to them can blow up entire cities and even lower-tech space ships in orbit. By and large the closest you get to infantry is the occasional black op or first contact squad meddling with lower-tech civilizations.
4936714
Yes. I'm just saying I agree that the lightsaber would lose, and also that your nerdity is now believable, making a reference on the latter to what was another page.
4937289 Oh. Well, thank you :3
I 100% agree, good rant also
4936270
Well considering that Space Marines feel no fear that would be correct as to bravery requires one to overcome their fear.
Do you consider pulling a star destroyer from obit to be minor. As size does not matter?
4942928 Gary Stu does not count as baseline average Jedi/Sith. Even if they are canon Gary Stus.
4942935
what about Yoda and size matters not?
on a side note are you having a writers block or are we capped out until October? Your rate of production seems to have slowed down.
4942939
What do you mean? I've been doing 2 stories with 1 chapter a week for the last like... 4 months.
4942964
It seemed more like 1 chapter for each story per week. now only 1 per week period.
4942968 Dont take one data-point as the start of a trend. I had a bit of a problem getting things done on time, and the comishioner for Princess didn't get the chapter reviewed on time. THat's all.
4942971
All good. Just concerned for you is all.