Aug
25th
2018
Points of Canon: S8x21 - A Rockhoof and a Hard Place · 5:47pm Aug 25th, 2018
This is another of those spoilers, but there’s no way I’m going to care about that anymore.
- Chronology markers: School of Friendship is a major part of this episode. Cozy Glow turns up in the audience during a lecture, but her presence does not necessarily constitute a hard lock. Spike has wings.
- What is Lemon Hearts doing working this dig, in addition to Cherry Berry, Berry Punch, and a few others, I can’t tell. No, seriously, why are so many known, long time Ponyville residents digging up a Mighty Helm village?…
- Rockhoof now has a pronounced Scottish accent, and uses Scottish-isms like “lass” and “wee” to mean “little.”
- “Did I tell you about the time our chieftain knocked down five boulders with the kick of a wee ball?” Mighty Helm culture played with balls too.
- “Now it belongs in a museum. Safe. Preserved. Untouched.” How the hell is it preserved, though? Wooden objects are normally not recovered from digs. When they are, it’s always an extremely big deal. Rockhoof didn’t even dig this ball up, he picked it up off the ground. It looks wooden, but what is it made of really?
- “Next you’ll be sayin’ I shouldn’t have used the old sweat lodge.” Which is really bizarre, as the word “sweat lodge” are normally used to describe something used by the Native Americans, while the Mighty Helm culture would be far more likely to use a “sauna,” “therma” or a variation.
- “Oh, thank Celestia.” Professor Fossil joins the exclusive club of ponies taking Celestia’s name in vain.
- “Thank you! Thank you, all! I know I’m new to your world…” There is that possibility that the Pillars do not actually originate in the same world. If you like it, here’s your argument.
- “Guys, he’s one of the Pillars! He’s like… pony history!” This is probably the first indication we get any Pillar except Star Swirl was national news.
- “I’m, uh, your new ‘Theory and Defense of Friendship’ teacher.” It’s actually very strange that those two are combined into a single teaching unit, rather than the more sensible “Theory of Defensive Friendship.” Spike says it a lot more clearly later in the episode, so I’m at a loss why is the course named that, we can’t even blame Rockhoof for misunderstanding things here.
- “We just studied all about how Princess Celestia and Luna used a spell to trap Discord in stone sleep for hundreds of moons.” Gah. Moons. “Hundreds of moons” is absolutely senseless regardless of whether moons are week-scale, month-scale or year-scale, because it’s quite definite Discord has been stoned for at least a thousand years. For that matter, referring to the use of the Elements as a “spell” is also senseless. Ocellus is free to talk nonsense, but generally, she’s always been presented as a more knowledgeable student…
“Like the time I was in the woods and I ran across an ursa major!”
- Rockhoof knows what those are.
- Rockhoof has to have encountered it where the Mighty Helm lived, otherwise the wording would be different – which implies that ursas are much more widespread than you’d think. Or like. Previously, we only had secondary canon statements that ursas live anywhere outside Everfree.
- For that matter, even Yona knows what those are…
- “I’m not sure. But I think it’s surf’s up! Woo-hoo! Cowabunga!” And now I’m wondering whether Pinkie saying cowabunga should be taken to imply pony surfers also use the word…
“Do you know where I can find Cranky Doodle Donkey?! I need to deliver his medicine! He has a rash in a very embarrassing place!”
- Lemon Hearts is following Rockhoof around. I have a suspicion I know why.
- Ponies, or at least donkeys, have embarrassing places. This is actually a lot more significant than you would think in a largely nudist culture.
- “None of the other Pillars seem to be having trouble fitting into the modern world.” Good to know.
- “Even Canterlot looks different from the old days.” Rockhoof has been to Canterlot in the old days, which is not really a given.
- Flash commands “Visitors on site! Company, halt!” but then Rockhoof calls it his “squadron.” I expect the word Flash uses is correct, but then a company only contains 14 soldiers…
- “Princess Celestia was happy to find a new drill sergeant for her guard!” I have long suspected the Royal Guard doubles as a place to put ponies you can’t put somewhere more useful but need to stick around for potential unique circumstances. Now I’m sure.
- “She really put you in a job that big so soon?” A drill sergeant, even in such an elite unit, is hardly a glamorous or big job, but what does Rockhoof know.
- “They made you the royal landscape artist for the Crystal Empire?” This entire scene relies on the idea that the Crystal Empire grows things out of crystal, and would imply that it is all grown, as I surmised previously. The unusual part of this is that Mistmane is a unicorn, which means that what is otherwise an earth pony magic is somehow performed by a unicorn. Seriously, people…
“Somnambula’s a motivational speaker.”
- In Somnambula. Which Trixie and Starlight passed through on the Road to Friendship and somehow avoided bumping into Somnambula’s class.
- This pose has to be extremely uncomfortable for ponies.
- Minuette is visiting Meadowbrook. I wonder why.
- “Mage Meadowbrook, your home looks just the same as the old days.” See my prior comments regarding the utter impossibility of that in A Health of Information. It’s still just as impossible.
“Hey, look what I found! Me and My Shadow, the third hit novel by former villain Stygian! I’m impressed! He’s really thriving!”
- Now riddle me this… What were the first two about?
- For that matter… Where did Twilight find it? This house now works as a clinic, as they call it, but functions more like an apothecary. Why would the book be lying around?
“A hero! What we need to do is find him a job that’s as epic as he is!”
- Serving in the pony navy, apparently, is not sufficiently epic. I can name a few potential reasons why, but the big one would be “steamships.”
- For that matter, the hippogriffs are a lot more openly low-tech than ponies are, they don’t even use airships, even though these would be in most situations preferable to seagoing vessels. Parrots do, so why don’t hippogriffs?
“I’m honored to serve in the Hippogriff Navy, General Seaspray! I promise I’ll prove my worth.”
- A general is still in apparent command of a navy.
- The uniform Rockhoof is wearing does not match the uniforms the hippogriffs are wearing or anything we’ve seen before, though it does match the traditional “sailor suit” of Earth, which derives from the uniform of British Royal Navy. I can only surmise he got an Equestrian navy uniform because none the hippogriffs had would fit.
- “After our many years below the waves, land customs seemed strange.” So how exactly did Seaspray get his characteristic criss-cross scars then? Not to mention the apparent battle damage to his uniform.
- “Uh, why do the Hippogriffs need ships if they can turn into seaponies?” Lots of good reasons, like transporting goods which contact with water will damage. At a certain point, submarine transport becomes preferable, but suitable watertight containers would involve materials the hippogriffs do not seem to have. Seriously, Applejack…
“Wait, General! We can navigate the same way my Coltic ancestors traveled through the Selkie Mists! We’ll look to the stars! There in the northwest sky is the constellation O’Bridle’s Pelt! Steer the ship toward that!” What a loaded statement.
- The Mighty Helm’s ancestors were “Coltic,” whatever this word means to them.
- “Selkie Mists” is a location of permanent mists, I wonder where that is. I also wonder if selkies exist, because that would be yet another shapeshifter.
- “O’Bridle’s Pelt” is a constellation.
“Oh, no. Stars can move slowly over time. They must look different now than over a thousand years ago.”
- Now, stars do move over time, that’s true – but the time scale for significant changes is tens of thousands of years, not one. It is far more likely that “steering towards O’Bridle’s Pelt” was the correct direction to get out of the Selkie Mists – but is not the correct way to get out of the Mount Aris harbor. I think Twilight’s just covering for Rockhoof.
- Notice that nobody blames Luna for moving them. I’m not sure if we did track down the place where that fanon originated, did we?
- Seaspray blaming Rockhoof for his own mistake of following an advice of a junior crew member without verifying he is even familiar with this region of the world implies that this navy is not a nice place to serve in.
- “Uh, you’re not really going to turn him to stone, are you?” Can Twilight even do that? Doing that to Discord involved the entire complement of the Elements. But Twilight’s answer implies that she can…
- “Twilight sent me to tell you she won’t be in today ’cause she has to cast a stone sleep spell on Rockhoof.” Once again that statement that Discord turning to stone was a “spell.”
- “Sorry you won’t be having any dinner tonight, lass!” Well, it’s obvious ursas are carnivorous, but what do they eat when they can’t get a pony?
“And she’s been a constellation up there ever since! Or so I’m told.”
- He’s not pointing at either the Ursa Minor or Ursa Major constellation, though, is he?
- Rockhoof talks about his own exploits as if they became a myth that he was fully aware of during his lifetime. I find this very, very strange, though later, he adds “It was just a tall tale,” implying that it might not have originally been about him…
- “As the Princess of Friendship, I’d like to appoint you as Equestria’s official keeper of tales!” Even Spike doubts Twilight can do that.
Probably the most problematic thing about this episode is treating the way Discord got stoned as an application of a regular technique, rather than something that applied only to him, because it brings up a lot of fridge logic. Namely, that Discord appears to have been aware the entire time he was stone.
The only way out of this that I see is that the Sisters have originally tried a simple spell, rather than the Elements, which only worked for “hundreds of moons.” Which would at least explain why did Twilight need to specially prepare this spell for Rockhoof.
"Ponies, or at least donkeys, have embarrassing places. This is actually a lot more significant than you would think in a largely nudist culture."
Maybe it's his head, under his toupee?
4925551
Possible, but it would also have to apply to every donkey, at least, wouldn’t it? Otherwise ponies simply wouldn’t understand the concept…
4925560
Hm. Thinking over it more, while I don't think that there's a problem with the listeners (the place is explicitly called embarrassing, so even if ponies and donkeys don't have that as a general concept, they'd know that it applied in this case), there has to be a reason for Rockhoof to say it. Which could mean the place is embarrassing in his own culture, he thinks it is in modern donkey and/or pony culture for some reason (including, potentially, that being the case; the Pillars, for instance, may have all gotten thorough medical checkups offscreen as part of their welcome-to-the-future process, and he could have found out there), or the medicine, package, package dispatcher, or something actively told him it was for an embarrassing place. It's still possible it's that third one and still only applies to Cranky (if, say, the Ponyville package dispatcher who gave Rockhoof the package was in a slightly gossipy mood and knew that Cranky specifically was embarrassed by his baldness), but one of the other possibilities may be more likely.
I'm pretty sure that this idea grew from "the stars will aid in her escape".
Man, I look away for a second and there's two more episodes! So much pony!
Maybe it's rock, or some kind of earth pony magic-produced ironwood?
Eh, why not mix-and-match our fantasy cultures?
I bet one of the writers remembered Harry Potter's 'Defense against the Dark Arts' class and tried to turn it into something friendship-themed.
You know every time the writers use the word 'moons' it's to mess with people like us.
Did we ever have any statements that they only lived in the Everfree?
I know the writers can't actually name a very embarrassing place due to writing, but it's odd that Rockhoof knows precisely what the medicine is for, has the sense to decide it's an embarassing place, but lacks the sense to not shout about it all over town. I wonder if "'e 'as a rash on 'is bum!' would have gotten past the censors?
+1
Eh, I've always thought unique talents could break the barrier between pony races. Fluttershy's talent is more earth pony-ish, as was Scootaloo's before they decided it was helping others. I don't see why a plant-specialized unicorn couldn't do plant magic.
Alternatively, maybe earth pony magic doesn't work on crystal plants.
More like a meditation teacher or something.
She might have been traveling at the time before settling down. Or visiting one of the other Pillars.
Well, if she is a mage, maybe she cast some kind of preservation spell on the place? Or the tree it's in is somehow still alive like the treebrary.
Impulse buy section near the counter? Okay, actual good explanation: Meadowbrook bought it to read because Stygian wrote it. Twilight just said she found it, not that she found it for sale.
Maybe their army became their navy when they went underwater and the old terms stuck, even though returning from Aquastria (or whatever) they now do normal navy stuff?
I had the same question initially. You raise good points, but before reading them I was left with the impression Applejack's statement was a lampshade hanging.
Have to agree. Was wondering how Rockhoof 'knew' this exact same solution applied to the local geography. Then it was clear he did not.
Flesh to Stone is only a sixth level spell, I'm sure Twilight can manage it. The problem is going to be Rockhoof's no-doubt collossal Fort save -- it's gonna be awkward if Twilight has to cast it more than once.
More seriously, Discord was a mythical being, I figure stone was how the elements decided to 'seal' him -- perhaps because being locked into a static shape is anathema to chaos and so weakens Discord more? It seems plausible that there's a normal spell for turning mortals to stone (and all manner of reasons to develop one -- perhaps it was part of developing a cure for cockatrice victims?) This is probably completely unrelated to what happened to Discord, but by now Twilight's learned that noone but arcane scholars will care about the distinction so didn't clarify.
I bet any prey is hard to find in space!
"Eh." Seems she thinks this will make less of a headache for Celestia than Rockhoof causing trouble or being turned into stone.
If cockatrices can turn ponies to stone, Twilight Sparkle probably can as well.
The thing that got me is that Rockhoof would be great on an archaeological dig. In the real world, digs use bulldozers more often than the dental pick/toothbrush combo! And just let him wander around and say, hey, I think there was a town over there!
4925568
There’s also something I originally missed.
Doodle is wearing his black toupee again.
4925645
There’s no question it did. The question I would like to see an answer to is “Which major story first made the leap and concluded this phrase implies Luna moves all the stars?”
4925716
Plausible, but then it wouldn’t bounce anywhere as well as a simpler wooden ball, would it?
They originally introduced the word to cover their asses. Now they’re going to have to introduce another word to cover the fact that they can’t cover their asses worth a damn.
Not really, which is probably why newer writers are using them instead of making up more monsters.
This is only plausible if the particular medicine is only suitable for treating embarrassing places and Rockhoof knows about it somehow…
Meditational speaker?
Sure. The entire village and the entire contents of her house, though? Do you people ever go through your first aid kit, throwing out expired meds? Because I do.
Sometimes I start thinking Equestria has no bacteria whatsoever, which is kind of ironic when Meadowbrook treats primarily infectious diseases.
Works. But still… what were the first two books called?
Sort of plausible, but I can’t imagine Twilight not sticking to the point at least to her own students.
Could be hunting Cancer or Corvus or a bunch of other things, what do you know?
4925793
Probably, sure. But would it be the same way Discord got turned to stone?…
4925797
Fossil doesn’t complain that he’s useless, though, but rather, that she can’t keep him under control – like with Seaspray, the failure is not with Rockhoof. The optimal solution would be to send a pony to constantly occupy his time and mediate his impulses, who has a basic understanding of the concerns of the modern archaeologist. I’m sure there are a few around, but oh well…
4925816
Maybe he just feels like different colors some days?
4925824
Not impossible, but very strange considering the whole story of how the orange wig came about.
4925841
Hm, yeah.
For as weird as this episode was, I have to admit that it did get me to like Rockhoof and care about his problems. I couldn't have cared less about any of the Pillars except Star Swirl in season seven itself.
Pinkie's full of earth pony magic and look how well she bounces! ...yeah I got nuthin'.
Not sure about the village; I took Rockhoof's comment to mean her house looks the same. In that case, she's had plenty of time to restock it with fresh medicines -- and probably new ones too. I doubt Rockhoof memorized her house in minute detail, and just sees 'tree house full of medicine' as being pretty much the same.
Another episode where it feels like the writers are trying to build on lore, they're just forgetting stuff from earlier seasons.
Stygian has written and published 3 novels that have sold enough to become hits. I would take that as evidence that this episode takes place several years from the end of S7.
Package tour? If they do them for air cruises, maybe they do them for archaeology sites when the presence of a living legend drives a lot of interest.
The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there.
The course might have gotten its name back when Twilight was still trying to get in good with the EEA, and it's never been changed.
This did piss me off. Maybe the idea is, the common pony would not deal well with the idea that Discord is free and no one can really reign him in since the Elements were put back on the tree. So Celestia told everyone she and Luna bound him with a spell, so in theory they could do it again if he acts up, so no need to panic. It would actually explain a bit about how ponies have become much more relaxed around Discord.
From comics we know they sometimes live near the northern border of the CE, which puts them right near Yakyakistan.
It could be for his bald scalp, which we know Cranky finds embarrassing.
Every squad is the misfit squad?
Also remember, Flash is the only pony who's ever been shown beating a dragon in a fight, it makes sense Celestia would want him in the guard. (Maybe she could do it herself, but the dragon might have vine or cloud reinforcements).
It might also be relative. Captain is the highest military rank we've ever heard of, so if you assume Shining Armor and Spitfire are viewed like a 5 star general, then a Sergeant is probably the equivalent in status of a mid-level office like a captain or a colonel.
I mean, she's a pretty legendary mage in her own right. Heck, Sombra grows black crystals all the time, and whatever he is he's not an earth pony.
Now we need to see her meet Iron Will.
Meadowbrook's supporting her friend?
The same reason we invented fire before the dolphins did: technology is harder to invent underwater.
Battling with King Leo or sirens. Or maybe he dualed the mare from the Washouts off the shores of Oatstralia.
Better question, why do they need a navy? Even if they need ships, seems like a race that can both fly and swim don't really need military sailing ships.
No, but we have some pretty strong evidence now she doesn't.
It's the military arm of a race that had a superweapon that could have stopped the storm king and hid instead. These guys make the Royal Guard look good.
Discord can't be petrified by ordinary magic the same way he can't be disintgrated by a blast, he's a powerful spirit. If a cockatrice or a magic grenade can do it to anyone, I see no reason Twilight could.
I think he was making up the story, which kind of explains a lot about the weird presence of a gigantic bear on his tiny island. I think Rockhoof interspersed his genuine heroic deeds with fabricated stories if they would be more entertaining.
I really doubt Celestia is going to argue that much with Twilight's choice for Poet Laureate, basically. Trixie might be mad she didn't get the job though.
4925816
The problem with that is archeologists in Equestria are rather famous for having terrible impulse control. Between Daring Do, Caballeron, and several evil archeologists that fought Maud one time in the comics, the really surprising thing is that Dr. Fossil hasn't yet either triggered or set a death trap.
4926236
Not necessarily, and in fact, a bit unlikely: His third novel is about his Pony of Shadows experience. You would think that this would be the first thing he wrote upon being released, however, wouldn’t you? I expect he did, and then, his previous two novels were written before he got corrupted, and would be about his adventures with the Pillars.
Possible, but sounds like a stretch to me…
Epic Rap Battles of Equestria: Somnambula vs. Iron Will!
That’s the best option – it sounds like a story.
Rude sea serpents.
She’s going cold turkey, which is why she has to get rid of Rockhoof before he triggers a relapse?…
4926361
From my experience people who want to milk their personal stories for a bestselling novel are often able to stretch it out into multiple books. Politicians seem to put one out every few years.
And it's hard to imagine how Stygian's first two novels could have been written a thousand years ago and physically survived. Wasn't there an entire comics series specifically about how all written works discussing Stygian were erased?
I feel like a sea serpent could pretty easily break a ship, but I can see how its safer to be in a ship than in the ocean. Of course, they could just fly to get away from any sea serpents...
Honestly at this point, considering how egotistical and nationalistic the Hippogriffs are, I could see the entire navy as a done for morale. Kind of like how the USSR would wheel giant missiles down the streets of Moscow in military parades.
Every time Rockhoof breaks something, Fossil has to fight the urge to tie him to a slowly lowering pillar above a pool of acid.
4926367
We don’t know how good are the hippogriffs at long distance endurance flight. We know pegasi are, but hippogriffs might not be. This makes a navy quite sensible – every ship is a carrier.
That could be it.
4926494
I guess he could have had them under his tattered peasant outfit in the middle of that shadow. And presumably the first two volumes wouldn't be about him (since he was bitter over the fact that he didn't really do anything), but about the Pillars going around saving Equestria on other adventures. (Might explain how the other Pillars are more famous now).
But any publisher worth their salt is going to space out big novels for release, even if they are ready to go, the same way all three Lord of the Rings films were filmed at once and then released once a year. Since all 3 books have reached best-seller status, the publisher seems to know what they are doing.
And they'd have to be bad at endurance swimming as well, but yeah, a carrier makes the most sense of available options.
4925716
That or "using the Elements" does amount to "casting a spell." It's been referred to as such before. In Princess Twilight Sparkle, the ponies summon Discord using the Elements, and Discord calls that act "that little spell Celestia taught you." And in Shadow Play, Twilight writes a "spell," so-called, to send the Pony of Shadows to Limbo using the Elements.
Both creature-summoning and dimensional banishment can be performed without the Elements. Twilight accomplished the former in Magic Duel when she summoned a parasprite, and the Pillars accomplished the latter with respect to the Sirens. It would seem that the Elements can act as a power boost for ordinary spells even if their primary function is to act as karmic plot devices.