Postscript: Spectacular Seven, Volume II · 4:55am Jul 3rd, 2018
Oh thank God, it's finally over!
Hey guys, that was a thing, wasn't it?
...
I have thoughts and feelings. See thoughts, rants and spoilers for Volume II below. And maybe some tidbits about Volume III.
First, let me start off by saying, I liked this volume. I'm mostly proud of how it came together, because boy, it was not easy. But, there are a lot of stings attached to this volume that stop me from fully enjoying what I made. So, if I sound like I'm complaining, forgive me.
Like other postscripts, this is a behind the scenes view of how this part of the story came together. Things that changed, decisions that were reached, and for me to vent some problems of frustrations. It's all fluff and non-essential for the enjoyment of the story proper.
Whooo. I think I now fully understand what it means to be an author. When you send your manuscript to your editor, they send it back with a long list of changes to be made to the story. I have never changed so many things as I have with this one volume. And it wasn't even my editor who told me to change it, it was all me backpedaling and rethink things over and over again.
As i said at the start of Volume II, this was the backbone of the entire story. Every major plotline that was not already established was set up here, even the ones you can't see yet. (But if you squint real hard, you can see the Grand Finale.) So, that added a lot of pressure to make sure everything was perfect, believable, and comprehensible.
So, high stakes from the gate.
Add to it that i wrote half of this during NaNoWriMo last year, meaning I had to blaze through it. Add to it that I didn't even finish despite the 50k thrown onto it. Add to it me trying to get Class Zero and Ice Iris off the ground. Add to it my first year in grad school, and you've got a lovely recipe for anxiety. And I hadn't even started releasing chapters yet.
But let's backup for a second.
Again, there were so many changes made here, I don't even know where to start. Well, one of the big ones was, Tempest was originally Sombra. All the way up until I saw the movie, Sombra was Moondancer's overseer. Then I saw Tempest and went 'oh hey, she's awesome!" There's more to it than just her awesome factor though.
See, for Sombra, I didn't exactly have a motivation for him to be helping Tirek. It was really just, "hey, I can give you power." "Sure, sounds dope."
Tempest has a motivation for helping Tirek. I won't say what it is, of course. With that motivation, I felt I could make better use of her as the main villain. So, she stuck. I think she's pretty effective. (And yes, she only has one arm. Hint hint).
Backing up even further, a lot of things that happened here (spring break, Moondancer being a bitch, and Prom) were part of the original ending to Long Road to Friendship. My original aim for that story was to tell it up until graduation, but as I've said before, when i got to Halloween, I realized, Sunset couldn't be stubborn and arrogant that long, which is why I ended the story at New Years. The curse was originally going to break at Prom with a slightly similar scenario to what happened at the Winter Ball, only with Moondancer thrown in as well.
Moondancer was a lot more of a petty bitch in the original drafts, believe it or not. But we'll get to her later.
When I decided I wanted to take this story in a more magical girl adventure direction, I knew Prom would still be an important battleground. Naturally. So, a finale was always set to happen there. Sunset facing down her demon had been written in stone since the beginning.
Now, originally when this story was a lot more shojo and in your face with the action and magic, and before 'My Past is Not Today,' Friendship Games , and the Season 4 finale debuted, When Sunset faced her demons and accepted her past, it was going to be able to allow her to go into her demon form at will and have complete control over it. It was going to serve as a contrast to Moondancer using her light powers for dark purposes; the whole Dark is not Evil and Light is not Good.
Then I saw Phoenix Form Sunset and Tirek everything changed.
I can't say more yet, but the entire plot of Spectacular Seven was different before those debuted and gave me... not better ideas, but more realistic ones. Again, the very original draft of the story had a lot more magical girl action. This is more suburban fantasy. We're slowly building things up rather than just diving in and throwing power-ups and ki blasts from the gate.
Back to the story we actually have now. As I was writing the last part of the Volume I finale, I realized, I had forgotten an important plot point: Pinkie's birthday. I had said in Long Road to Friendship that Pinkie was born on Leap Day, and had plans to have them celebrate it. Maybe that would have given some nice relief to the tension in those chapters.
So, right off the bat for Volume II, I had to have them celebrate Pinkie's birthday. The girls forgot because I forgot. But it worked out pretty well. It pushed them to the vacation arc, where I debated whether to send them to the mountains, or to an island. The mountains one, so I could create a little bit of a mystery. And because snowboarding sounded awesome.
I hadn't intended it, but as I was writing Harbinger out, I realized, yep, this is an Absol. Oh well, I like Pokemon. It was a way to create a little bit of foreshadowing for the volume, and to show that there's more magic out there...
Soarin was originally Double Diamond, but I changed him out at the last moment for... reasons that'll you'll see soon enough...
Volume Ii was also originally going to be where I introduced Lamia. Yep. She and the Crystal Heart weren't originally meant for the first volume. One reason I pushed her up was because Volume II was already getting crowded with plots at the time. The other was because I came up with the idea that the Crystal Heart in this world was magical as well, and that the Sirens wanted it.
The Sirens were supposed to come back in Volume II! Remember what I said about it getting crowded? Yeah, the Spectacular Seven were going to deal with the Sirens, Lamia (whose role was admittedly smaller and far less antagonistic) Moondancer, and Scarlet. I quickly realized there was way too much going on and planned accordingly. Lamia, for the most part, filled in the role they were going to play and then some. The goal for Lamia was always to get her to stay for a little bit. It'll be fun watching her and Sunset (and Selena) interact.
Someone was also going to die in the very first draft of this. Not get their soul sucked out, flat out die. I'm not going to say who it was, and your guesses will probably be wrong (it wasn't Moondancer). But, that person will now survive the entire story. Yes, I will tell you who it was later.
I hadn't originally intended to give everyone their powers by volume's end. I'm glad I did though. The fights for the first encounter with Scarlet and the finale were rewritten, the latter twice. I like the re-writes a lot better because it involved the entire group more. Applejack wasn't going to display her super strength yet, just because I hadn't written her in a position to demonstrate it. Pinkie didn't have a set power until I was in editing mode. I was rather dissatisfied with her abilities shown in Legends of Everfree since they were limited to just sprinkle explosions. I was thinking of giving her materialization, but realized, she kinda already does that.
Then, DrakeyC showed me Jubilee and I saw that fit Pinkie to a T. I gave her fireworks!
I took Rarity's gem shields from the movie because I really was not sure what power to give her. I think hers are really creative and fitting. I gave Fluttershy healing powers, one because I thought it fit and thought of it before I saw she would be getting the ability to talk to animals, and two, so I could have the characters get into the action without wondering how to make sure they didn't get too hurt at any given point. Now they have a white mage to back them up, so I can dish out damage freely!
Alright, that mostly covers what did and didn't make it in. Let's talk about the actual making of it.
Again, I set up a lot of expectations for myself. I felt like I was walking a thin tightrope at times making sure the story developed naturally and making sure characters didn't figure things out before they were supposed to, while making sure you guys knew what was happening. There was a lot of dramatic irony involved here.
First hurdle was: does Moondancer tell them she knows about their magic or not? I decided that, if she wanted more information on them, then yes, she would have to be 'honest'.
I also struggled whether or not to include Harbinger at all. Was it a good subplot to build on Sunset's guilt complex while providing foreshadowing and small amount of magical mystery to to bridge the gap between one magical incident and the next? Or was it a pointless filler plot with little to do with the volume at large? I decided on the former, and it seems to have gone over pretty well.
Then there was the issue of Sunset's guilt complex and other insecurities. How much was enough? When was I dragging it out too long? That was her struggle this volume: dealing with her past actions one last time and worrying about the future once everyone got accepted into college. It was pretty important, but I really worried if I was dragging it out over chapters 8-11. I toned it down some to nullify the angst. The scene where Sunset goes to the park in chapter 12 actually started with her alone in her bedroom brooding. It was a little more whiny, so I changed it to be with Twilight so Sunset actually had a reason to be annoyed and walk off. It came off as lest self-loathing and more envious, which I think played a better role for later in that chapter when she was getting her soul read.
Chapter 13 was something I had written out almost a year prior to release, I was really looking forward to showing the moment where all of them felt something was wrong with Sunset. I also really, really loved showing Twilight's determination through those chapters. Where she stands up to the rest of the group and refuses to believe Scarlet is Sunset is one of my favorite written scenes so far.
And the rest of the Spectacular Seven believing Sunset was a demon again and trying to kill them? Yeah, that's as close as a parallel to 'Anon-a-miss' as I'm gonna get.
Chapter 17 was also something I was literally looking forward to. It's literally the soul of the story. You guys get to meet Apalla, and I get to introduce our main villain. It wasn't until after I finished writing it did I realize, 'boy, this is exposition heavy.' But it was literally the only way to get the heroes (and y'all) into the loop without dragging things out. Though, I suppose I could have turned it into a decent mystery.
*Flips through notes. Sighs"
Okay, let's talk about Moondancer.
Guys....
One volume ago, I was thrilled you guys didn't like her. She wasn't exactly a likeable characters.
Now... it really, honestly scares me how much so many of you want her to die.
And, I honestly can't tell if you don't like her character, or you don't like her as a character. There is a difference.
Listen, Moondancer is a bitch, I'm not gonna deny that. She's petty, she's a little entitled, she thinks she's been cheated.... does any of that sound familiar?
I just... I don't understand where the violent vitriol is coming from. Yet no one seems to think Tempest, the actual villain needs to burn in hell. And I want to say more, but if I have to start explaining how a character works outside the story, clearly I've done something wrong.
What is it? What did I do wrong? Why does the fact that Moondancer has been emotionally neglected and abused and has been taking care of her comatose mother not resonate with you guys? Yes, she's made plenty of bad choices, but she hasn't exactly been in a position to make some good ones.
I'm gonna stop. Just... the comments about Moondancer needing to die, killed some of the enjoyment for me. It was mostly the ones that came before she actually did anything wrong. I had to adjust a couple of things in the volume to hopefully turn down some of the fire. I'm not gonna say what anymore, because it clearly didn't work anyways.
Also, the song was a dumb idea. I hate that I put it in there. It was stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid.
So, that, and my little breakdown in... April? That time just kinda melted together... that hinders my enjoyment of the volume somewhat. I was also stressing myself out to make final edits and cleanup in time for Saturday releases. I realized that, while I do like the consistent schedule, I never want to do that again.
So, from now on, I think I'm going to keep a short stockpile of two to three chapters, so I'm always just a little ahead of you guys. Now that the pressure of major story set up is done, I don't think I need to write out the entire volume ahead of time.
That said, there's still going to be a hiatus because I am burnt out of this story. Like, I'm looking forward to writing more, but I have had very little time for my other fics because I was trying to manage this one.
So, I don't know when Volume III will start. Once I write three or four chapters, I'll start posting them, but I really want to finish Ice iris before the year is over, and I plan on doing NaNoWriMo again this year. And Class Zero desperately needs attention.
Besides, Sunset and the girls just graduated. They got a well earned victory. Best to let them savor it for a while. Graduation was always the halfway point of the plot for the story. It's just, there's a lot of content that fills up the last three volumes. Originally there were only four, but I broke volume III into two parts because of the amount of things that were going to happen, and the time frame I realized I had to make certain events line up.
Volume III will be a lot more relaxed compared to Volume II. I also think it and the fourth volume will be shorter compared to the previous two because I split things up.
Can't say much about the third volume, other than, it focuses more on the rest of the Spectacular Seven. Sunset's character arc is pretty much over now. Accepting her past and making peace with it was kinda the last major hurdle. Of course she's still going to have trials, but her character growth has almost reached it's peak. So now, we get to focus on the others! It's called Spectacular Seven for a reason.
That about wraps it up. I'm very relieved it's over right now. I'm still super looking forward to showing what happens next, but that can wait a little while.
Thank you so much to DrakeyC for editing and consultation and hearing me moan about things. You really helped me out here.
And thanks to you guys for your continued support. I'm still learning, still growing, still trying to make this story as good as I can. Clearly, it's not perfect, but I'm trying. As always, I probably forgot to mention something, so if you have any questions, feel free to voice them in the comments. I know there were a lot of things I forgot to respond to in the volume finale. And speaking of...
Volume II closing theme.
Seriously, give it a listen. It fits Sunset perfectly.
See you all (hopefully) soon for the third act!
See, I think the biggest thing about Moondancer with people is that she is: 1. The easiest to hate and 2. Sunset's main enemy in her 'normal' life. Now, what I mean by this is, yes, Tempest is the main villain, but she never does anything herself, aside from turn Moondancer into Two Face, she always was either in the shadows or had Moony do it for her. Therefore, not a lot of hate is centered around Tempest. The second point is kind of obvious; People love Sunset and anyone who messes with their waifu needs to back off.
Does this justify wanting Moony dead? No. And I wouldn't want to see her dead. But, and I think I've told you this directly, Moony is a character I love to hate. Even with her problems, I don't see her as someone to feel bad for, but someone who's made their own bed, and now needs to sleep in it. She isn't a bad character, like I said, I love to hate her, shes a good villain. But somewhere along the line it kind of got skewed just who the main villain is.
Looking forward to the eventual third act, but take your time, you've certainly earned it!
P.s., I really enjoy Moondancer as a character, and I think most others are confusing their dislike of her as a person with their dislike of her as a character. Not sure hwo people are missing the fact that her backstory basically lines up with Sunset's to a T.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
To your point on Moondancer:
In my humble and most likely incorrect opinion, I believe Moondancer got a lot more hate than Tempest from some of the readers because of the targets of their respective vitriol. Moondancer was cruel to the main heroes of the story, whereas Tempest was cruel to one of the antagonists. Moondancer's spite, therefore, felt more personal than Tempest's dark machinations. I do like both of their characters in the manner of "they're good villains because I don't want to see them win." Never once did I think "I wish Albi would take Moondancer or Tempest out of the story," because the fic was far better off with both of their inclusions.
And further to your credit, both Moondancer's villainous breakdown during the prom and the ending scene where Moondancer talks to her mother both made me like her character a lot more. And the scene where Artemis dotes on Moondancer but she still doesn't tell him the truth made me honestly feel bad for her. It hit that nerve that I love when villains hit, which is "I don't agree with their actions, but I understand them." It also made me want to see Tempest get what for, so kudos!
Just saying I saw what you were going for there, and I think you pulled it off. Quite well. Quite well indeed.
I eagerly await Volume III. I'll need to find something to fill the hiatus between volumes with something other than editing the story's TV Tropes page.
I'm most likely completely wrong here, but I think the Moondancer issue can be boiled down to length, and Equestria vs...Earth? Gaia? Terra?...Avalon?
You are right, Moondancer mirrors Sunset in a lot of ways. Sunset was an evil bitch for maybe 90 minutes. Moondancer has been evil for this whole story, which started how long ago? Wanna say a year, but I have too many browser tabs open as is.
Then there is their RETARDED motivations, plans, and projected/likely outcomes. Once you realize just how STUPID her 'Invade Equestria through a transformational mirror with an army of High School Humans and overthrow'...damnit I can't remember if you ever addressed if or how Sunset knew anything about Equestria prior to stealing the crown. (Read too many fanfics, especially with Sunset, can't keep them all straight.) Then you added in our knowledge of MLP and her attempts to overthrow anything are less threatening and more endearingly cute.
Moondancer on the other hand, is retarded for another reason. (Yesyes emotionally damaged, see NGE) HER plan has a chance of success. She IS right for how things seem to break in Sunset's favor. SHE is willing to damn the world to Tirek as long as she is reunited with her mother, either heedless of the danger, or perhaps more chillingly, fully cognizant but not caring.
After all, if Tirek kills them all, they'll be reunited in death anyway, right? And if not, within the Soul Lock.
Also, fuck Tirek. Made for an excellent fight scene but everything else about that episode upsets me. He. Is. A. Walking. Apocalypse. To.MLP. Manavore? THEIR ENTIRE PLANET RUNS ON MAGIC?!?!
And then they shoot rainbows and banish him to the place he escaped once already. Being the smartest 5 year old means you are still a 5 year old in an adult world. /rant
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That's all I want. You don't have to like her. I just wanted people to see where she's coming from, and I question whether I did that correctly.
I'm admittedly not caught up so I don't know the extent of what Moondancer did this volume but what I dislike about her is that she exists to make things more difficult for Sunset and I hate villains like that.
She reminds me of the villain from the second half of Accel World, while more extreme than Moondancer, his entire purpose was just to make the heroes miserable and it got to the point where you are just counting the minutes until the heroes finally get to kick his ass (and it was satisfying).
I just have a hard time liking a villain who directly makes the hero miserable and not much else. I mean the Siren's did that but that was more of a byproduct of a grander scheme they didn't just show up constantly to make things harder. I'm hoping Moondancer didn't get that bad but it was part of the reason I decided to step away from the story for a bit.
I don't think I've ever said I want Moondancer dead in my comments (and I'm too tired/lazy to go check), but here's my view of why she gets so much hate over Tempest. She's just so incredibly full of herself and so incredibly deluded that her hypocritical actions are the right path, despite all evidence to the contrary, that it makes you just want to smack her upside the head, preferably with a large blunt object.
In contrast, Tempest suffers no delusions about her actions (other than her belief that bringing back Tirek is a good thing), and the fact that she's playing Moondancer, who as noted is a primary hate sink, like a fiddle, and yeah, we find ourselves not giving Tempest the same hate as Moonie. We probably don't know the complete story behind Tempest and Moondancer's family yet, but by now we know enough that if Moonie hasn't figured out that her self destructive path is...well, that, it just makes us want to whack her with a clue x 4 even harder.
TL;DR, you did too good a job making Moonie hateable that she deflects most of the hate Tempest might otherwise get.
I think Moondancer just struck a nerve with some people; a lot of us have met that rich, entitled, over-dramatic person that just sets you on edge. I see nothing wrong with her as a character, and the people who hate on her so hard need to take a step back and remember it's not real. Please don't beat yourself up over it.
Honestly I just wanted Moondancer to get her just deserts. Which she has and I can tell she has more coming cause you know. Karma is a bitch. Tempest? She really seems like a low down evil heartless piece of shit and needs to be blasted into oblivion by rainbows cause she has crossed SO many lines. I mean she's a remorseless murderer who is trying to unleash a demon God for some reason and is using someone's mother as leverage.
Hell With Sunset being the entitled petty asshole she once was? I'm not to sure she would have gone THIS far. To be someone else's pawn and to aid in murder and kidnapping? Don't think sunset of old would have gone that far (She was under corrupted influence at the fall formal so I don't exactly count that) and she has shown she isn't proud of those choices and wishes she could take it back but moony? She is doing this for a noble reason but her mentality of 'the ends justify the means' will be her downfall and will likely be why she and tempest ultimately fail. (I am sensing death flags for tempest just sayin)
Now with that said though? I can understand why Moon Dancer is doing this. What would you do if it was your mother? However what Moon Dancer is failing to realize is that she is being super selfish in trying to do the right thing. Her mother I am very sure would be ashamed or disappointed at least to hear her daughter aiding the enemy even if it was to rescue her and she is letting her hate and sorrow cloud her judgement and she fell prey to Tempest and her lies.
This story continues to get better and better. I have some predictions based on clues you dropped in the story but I will keep those to myself cause I don't wanna guess and be right cause I am scary good at predicting things.
I disliked her for trying to be a obstacle for Sci-Twi's love but BOI I hated her for being a ungrateful bitch.
And honestly, I think trying to "turn down the fire" would make things for her EVEN WORSE (as readers, that's like a easy exit)...
If she don't die, at least Apalla shoud give her the mother of the attention calls, staying in comatose to keep Tirek away, and to stay the hell away from the S7, and the Lulamoon's family for a long time... And ONLY after that, she could earn the right to ask for a apology to EVERYONE.
I think half of the Moondancer thing is like how people felt (and how some still feel) about Diamond Tiara. I'd seen people wish for Chrysalis to come back and Diamond Tiara to die in the same breath. Heck, I was the same way until Crusaders of the Lost Mark made me like her.
And I think it comes down to this. People like Tempest are fantasy villains: they're fun, they're cool, they're pure wish fulfillment. But people like Moondancer and Diamond Tiara get hated because their character types are real. You might have met one in your life, someone who tried to sabotage a relationship or bully you in some way. And you transfer all those memories onto the characters, never thinking that they could have it just as bad. After realizing that with Diamond and others like her, I don't find myself jumping to hate characters like that as much, now that I'm aware of the thought process.
Thankfully, I haven't had to go through a Moondancer scenario with people hating a character more than they should (there is one IYGALL character who gets nasty comments, but he's a terrible guy and I relish them because he deserves it), but I hope I can go through it with as much tact and honesty as you just did.
P.S. On a lighter note, EqD just announced they have a Sunset Shimmer Build-a-Bear now. Maybe you could treat yourself on your break, if you like.
- I'm also surprised about this hate towards Moondancer. I can't bring myself to feel like that.
Sure, she is a bad character only by what she did to Sunset, and the way she's trying to get things done.
And because she's mean to fav pony girl, of course I'm happy that she's finally revealed to the Spectacular Seven (and defeated for a while).
But I really felt how distressed and desesperate she is in several chapters, not just being jealous over what Sunset has and not her, rather what happened during her life and what made her finally tying up with Tempest, by choice or not, betraying her family, etc.
As you said, she is not evil, she wants to get rid of Tirek but misusing her (new) abilities and gambling to associate with people wanting to bring him back.
- The way I'm looking at, it seems Artemis isn't really aware of everything that's happening, and isn't doing that much in the story.
He pops up after the fight during prom, and I feel like he didn't put much of an effort about finding the Rainbow of Light. Sure he didn't know the Soul Lock was used until Sunset was back from it, but if Tirek is indeed their mortal enemy and finding the Rainbow of Light part of their legacy in the family, then it doesn't shows in a good light how he's caring about this.
If the answer of what I've said is he wanted to have a family, raising Trixie so he's maybe expecting her to find the Rainbow of Light one day instead of him, then it makes sense if he wanted to retire a bit.
But the fact that he doesn't know his very own sister is "alive" and next to him?
Was he really present when Apalla got buried?
Maybe something happened for him to not know this, but it doesn't help that his character is declining along the story (and whatever, I liked how Trixie evolved, I prefer Selena and with Lamia around it would be fun).
Hope it'll be explained in the future.
- The people Lamia claimed Scarlet killed, how much magical were they to be important for Tempest?
And around the city or around the planet?
Thanks for reading and if you have time, some answers^^.
I think I can sum up the difference between our hatred for Tempest and Moondancer in a few simple words. One is Voldemort, one is Umbridge. One is easier to the because they're on screen more often and we see her actively do things. With Voldemort, we don't know the full extent of his atrocities, same with Tempest. With Umbridge/Moondancer, she's more actively antagonistic, and she honestly thinks she's good. And just the way she acts is infuriating. And that's a good thing, I don't think I've hated a villain quite like I have Moondancer in a while.
My contempt for Moondancer is simple:
She knew better and still sold her soul.
Also, will we be seeing Shimmering Sea getting more attention now? And please, do better than the show and show us what became of the Sirens.
The simplest way I can describe it is Tempest is a videogame final boss. There to be a threat to the main character. While Moondancer is that kid throwing a tantrum at the grocery store. Neither of them are badly written or bad characters but Tempest is designed to instill terror and fear while Moondancer is designed for you to hate.
I don't really think you did anything wrong. Honestly, I'm not terribly surprised that even within this audience, there are people spewing vitriol at Moondancer (and I will admit, I have been caught up in the energy of the Moondancer hate a few times, though not enough to leave a comment or fantasize about her death or anything like that: I just wanted her to get smacked and told why she sucked).
Really, I think the reason for the vitriol is the same as mine for Wallflower: both hurt Sunset very personally, and both forms of retribution were exponentially disproportionate to the slight (perceived or not). I'll readily admit to a strong personal bias against those who hurt Sunset, and the only reason this Moondancer doesn't receive the same kind of vitriol I typically have for Wallflower (and her being "cute" isn't going to save her from me not liking her, Derpibooru)... is because she has a reason for doing all of it, the reason being that she's a horribly damaged individual, damaged enough to genuinely believe her actions are justified.
You got that across to me, at least. I don't agree with Moondancer, but I understand her.
Also, to your credit: I'll gladly say this Tempest can go to hell.
I think the main thing that made Moondancer unlikeable wasn't necessarily her bitchy attitude, her jealousy, her arrogance, or even her actions. I think the main aspect of her that I can’t stand is that she doesn't seem aware of these traits. Even when Sunset was at her worst, she was aware that she was a bitch and was blatantly unapologetic about it. Moondancer's attitude to her own character is... too real. You did too good a job at portraying a flawed person, and it resonates very clearly with me as that is something clearly visible in my own nature. I don’t notice when I'm being inexcusable if someone doesn’t directly sit me down to tell me, and I can see that very damning flaw in Moondancer.
In short, familiarity breeds contempt. I don’t like her, because I see the worst parts of myself in her.
That being said, I don't want her dead. I want to see her either get a clue and work on bettering herself or move out of sight and out of mind.
Also, just to put it out there, I do like the fact that you've provided a reason for her personality through a neglectful and abusive home-life, and it's handled well. When someone is given little to no positive attention, they do tend to become more insular and self-centred. You did a damn good job with that. It doesn’t excuse her behaviour, not at all, but it does provide context.
Extra note, because I honestly don’t know when to shut up: why do I not dislike Tempest as much as Moondancer, when she's very obviously a piece of scum with no conscience? Because she's big picture. She's Boss Battle Villain. She's an overshadowing presence that affects the story but isn't really seen as much. I can’t see her thought process and I don’t fully have the grasp of her final plans. As a result, I can dehumanise her in my head and distance myself from her. It's like comparing, say, Hitler to Darquesse from Skulduggery Pleasant. Darquesse is potentially a bigger threat than Hitler, but by God do I hate Hitler more - because Hitler is more real and is a better representation of the dark realities of humanity, while Darquesse is fictional. - Also, I apologise for inadvertently comparing Moondancer to Hitler. That was not the intention.
It's always so good to read your thoughts and all that went into the process of making these stories. You really are quite good and the way you come up with such complex stories and characters is fascinating.
I'm sorry you felt cheated out of some fun because of the extreme hate against Moondancer. I don't want her to die, just see her get a good verbal smack down and realization of what she messed up on, like what Sunset went through. I think the reason so many people put more "die" comments in regards to Moondancer than Tempest is because of how much time we spent with her.
Yes, Tempest is probably the worse of the two in the long run and shows how awful she can be, but her screen time was far less in comparison to Moondancer. Moondancer used almost every moment she had to make things worse for Sunset beyond rationale. Tempest right now is just a dark force in the shadows, limited appearances, but Moondancer has been at the forefront and devoting her time to helping Tempest, trying to ruin Sunset, or everything else she did.
Moondancer is very complex and sympathetic, you've done well on her character. But maybe she just needed some more scenes beyond the one with Artemis to get more into her. Maybe showing some more bonding moments with the Spectacular Seven, starting to crack her shell but refusing to let them in because she is focusing on her mission may have helped toned down all the "die" comments.
Also, I enjoyed her song; it was very well done and fits her character.
Volume II was spectacular and really upped the game from Volume I. I can't wait to see where we go in Volume III! I hope you have a good rest and hope you have a better time writing the next volume.
I actually really enjoyed Moondancer as a character, but not her character. That song, in my opinion, was a work of genius! Makes me think of Burr vs Hamilton. Burr, ultimately, isn't a bad guy. He fought for America's freedom and wanted America to thrive, but made a lot of mistakes. Moondancer was a pain, especially to Sunset, but, unlike many people, I don't want her to burn. I want a redemption arc for her. Am I just that sappy? Yes, yes I am. I'm hoping, at a finale, she finally decides to flip on Tempest, and somehow realize her mistakes. She does remind me of pre-reformation Sunny, which is why I want them to be friends. I'm ticked off at her choices, though. Volume II was pretty freakin amazing, so congratulations on getting it done! Looking forward to Volume III when it finally hits! Until next time!
PS, update Double Sun Daze. I love that fic.
I love this look at the process. Don't worry about taking a break. I think most of us were expecting that after volume II. I know I was. Showing how much work went into this just proves how much you need one.
I wish I felt compelled to comment on more things, but, like most people, I'd like to address Moondancer. I think other comments have already addressed a lot of the big reasons for why people hate her, so I won't repeat them here. The only thing I would tell you to keep in mind is the community you are posting this story in. I read a lot of Sunset stories, and in almost all the ones with a clear antagonist this kind of vitriol appears in the comments. I remember a story that was completely about forgiveness and the pointlessness of revenge. The comments on it were filled with calls for revenge, death, and things I don't feel comfortable repeating. Some people want to have something they can hate completely and there is nothing you can do to change their minds. Their anger is not your failure. Personally, I hope Moondancer is redeemed. If that happens, some people won't like it, but that's okay. You just keep dazzling the rest of us with your amazing writing.
Also, love the song. Should I take that as a recommendation for RWBY? I keep thinking I should check it out and just never get around to it.
You started getting the ideas for this story and/or writing it out four years ago?
What?!
Moondancer...I think you've written her well, and her attitude really gets on my nerves, but I agree that she doesn't deserve to die. She needs to face consequences for allying with her family's mortal enemy, but she hasn't killed anyone, or led to anyone's death, so I don't see how there's any basis to call for hers.
"Armed and Ready" is among my favorite songs in RWBY. Yang's character songs are always great, but that one is just awesome.
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Yes, you should watch RWBY. It's a fun show.
I think part of the reason of why people are so venomous about Moondancer is her persuit of Twilight. WE know she'll fail in the end, so her repeating her goal over and over like she did gets grating and we just want her to shut up about it already. As for her other goals and motives, I can see why she did them and if there's one positive thing I'm looking forward to with her, it's reuniting with her mother after Tirek's defeat.
I also want to point out that I never wanted her to die and I don't think anyone should. Outside of DBZ, DC, and Marvel, death is FAR too permanent and is really the most extreme answer to a problem. I don't want Moondancer to die, I want her to go away, or at least give up on Twilight and move on, which she thankfully has and I think people will finally, if not outright like her character, at least not have a problem with her showing up again.
Looking forward to how Sunset handles post-highschool life!
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Ah, I think you did that well enough. I personally didn't want her to die - get her just desserts? Most certainly. Emotional pain? Yup. Have Twilight break off her friendship from her? ....maybe a little. But that's me being spiteful and venting. And, I gotta ask - that scene where Sunset accept's her dark nature/ Did Persona 4 inspire any of that? Because I'm reading that chapter, and P4 is the first thing to pop in my head, no joke. Also, that flying scene with Twilight was heart-melting dude. Looking forward to what comes next!
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Nope. Never played a Persona game.
Congratulations on finishing the second phase of Spectacular Seven. Most professional writers (the ones who get paid for their work) would take a break after devoting as much time and energy as you’ve devoted to this story.
Now, onto the subject of the day.
I believe I wrote something like “Moondancer can go to hell” after one chapter. I didn’t mean it literally, but in hindsight, I can see why it sounded so harsh. At that point, I just wanted her to get put in her place and shut up, not to die.
S7 contains a great example of an antagonist versus a villain. Moondancer’s an antagonist – someone who works counter to the heroes’ goals, but isn’t evil – and Tempest’s more of a villain, who will hurt, maim and kill to achieve her goals. Ghostbusters (the original, real one) also contains a great antagonist and villain. Walter Peck (the EPA guy) is a government employee trying to do his job, and really, aren’t the GBs in the wrong for putting an unlicensed nuclear device in the middle of New York City? Gozer is an evil demigod bent on destroying the earth. You see the difference. Actually, maybe Tempest is more like Zuul and Tirek is Gozer in this analogy…
If Moondancer feels like she’s skewing more evil, let her be evil. One of the most mysterious and magical things about writing is when the characters and story start writing themselves, and they go in a completely different direction than where the author intended them to go. You implied Moondancer is a shadowy reflection of Sunset, but you already have a literal reflection of Sunny in the story – Lamia! I’d be interested in seeing Lamia reformed and possibly taking Sunset’s place in Equestria. Moondancer’s arc might be more interesting if she goes all the way to the Dark Side and ends up completely ruined -- not dead, but ruined.
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Huh. How 'bout that. Still, great chapter!
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That's kind of where she's at by the end of Vol. II, though, isn't it? She's failed at everything she set out to do, her magic she worked so hard on amounted to nothing, and, in her desperation, she's thrown away her best friend's life to save her own. Moondancer's beating left her a pathetic, sobbing wreck, utterly hopeless but too bitter to admit defeat. Where does she have left to go? I genuinely feel bad for her, and I'm a bit shocked no one else seems to (in-story).
I get that the Spectacular Seven were acting in self-defense against someone they really didn't like, but they seem to relish her sound beating a bit too much, no? That leads to my first real issue with this series; life continues as normal and nobody seems to give much thought to the fact they've just completely ruined their former associate's life after she tried to rip out their souls. I imagine that would be a fairly traumatic shock to the system, one pretty hard to accept. Then again, I don't know what's planned for next volume, I don't understand your characters as well as you, and I probably shouldn't write critiques at five in the morning.
All in all, I've really enjoyed reading Volume II (and I, and Long Road to Friendship). Moondancer was personally unlikable at times, but she was always well-written and made perfect sense in the end. I can't say I agree with the hate towards her, but I can understand why she's more reviled than Tempest. We've had more time to know Moondancer and see how far she's fallen, stooping even to murder. She's been irritating for a while now and fosters a personal hatred for Sunset, but so far Tempest had only one or two scenes where she threw Sunset around (IIRC), and I get the impression that was just to get at her magic. I'll be interested to see where things go from here now that Moondancer has been so thoroughly humbled.
Keep doing what you've been doing; even the song wasn't that bad.
Abendrot, you've answered your own question about why so many readers feel vitriol toward Moondancer. She helped Tempest in her attempt to rip out the Spectacular Sevens' souls, and she stood by as Tempest succeeded with Sunset. She's at least an accomplice in several murders of magical people. She kidnapped Sunset. She's lied and stolen and cheated, all with an airy-fairy smile on her face. She is not nice.
If someone in my family was dying of heart disease and I shot someone else in order to get their heart, would that make me right?
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I don't remember asking that question, but I think we're pretty much in agreement about Moondancer being an unlikable person who's attempted murder. I guess I just have a hard time believing her contempt for Sunset actually went so deep; by the end of the volume Moondancer is pretty clearly acting out of desperation.
I think the hate for Moondancer over Tempest stems from that Moondancer is so fucking entitled and self-absorbed, she genuinely believes that Twilight belongs to her, and that Sunset needed to die. Whereas Tempest is more of a Doomsday/Fuck the World over kind of villain in comparison. I don't want her to die, I just want to see Sunset, not Scarlet, give her the beat down she deserves, and maybe a permanent rejection from Twilight.
Tempest is Generic Enigmatic Villain #12. Also, we don't see that much of her. Moondancer is constantly in our face reminding us of how much better she is than everyone else and how Twilight belongs to her and Sunset needs to die and everything is hers by right. Much easier to loathe.
Unpopular (and late) opinion. I love Moondancer (as a character)!
She has so much wrong with her personality, she's an antagonist who's contently present and she caused pain and suffering to our heroes. She's an easy target for hate. And for a time, I did. But after seeing all she's gone through, I can't. In fact, I'm kind of rooting for her. Not to win of course, but for her to see the error of her ways and join the Spectacular Seven as a true friend.
Seriously, she's just one of the reason why I've been enjoying Spectacular Seven so much.
Anyway, enjoy your rest. You deserve it. And whatever you write next, I'm sure I'll enjoy it.
Going to just state my personal opinion on this Moondancer thing.
Now, the reason everyone is like that is because the PERSPECTIVE has Moondancer be like that. We're seeing all this from Sunset's perspective. We've SEEN she could be absolutely horrible and tried to ruin someone's life just for being close with someone she likes. She was fully ready to do whatever it took to get everything SHE wanted. She IS a villain. While it's true that TEMPEST is the true villain, how many of her actions have so far been seen DIRECTLY affecting the point-of-view character? THAT'S why Moondancer is hated more. She's the one actively standing against Sunset. And so far, she has zero redeeming qualities. Even if she has a tragic backstory, that's not fully enough to absolve her of all the stuff she's done. She so far hasn't shown ANY positive traits really. Tragic backstory is check but why should she be pitied JUST due to that, if she's going to show that it had such a negative effect on her that "Saving" her wouldn't really do much positive anyway? If she were to be saved or redeemed, so far, there's no positive traits that would be enhanced there. She treats people like property or prizes(Twilight) and she doesn't show any signs of wanting anyone's help with her goal(shoved away any chances of redemption so far), she's fully willing to do whatever it takes(from what I understand she could have killed Sunset), and even BEFORE her goal was revealed and Sunset and the group got THIS involved with it, she took pleasure in ruining Sunset's life and making her miserable. BEFORE she was revealed to be an ACTUAL Antagonist.
Why SHOULD people want her alive still? What benefit is there to keeping her alive aside from preserving the "Friendship" theme of the series? There hardly is any. People hate her character, not her as a character, not her role in the story. She's well-written, but from her personality so far, they do hate her. It's the trope Hate Sink. They REALLY are rooting against her all the way and want her to pay for all that she's done. And at this point, death seems to be the best way for that because she isn't showing much of a reason for getting herself redeemed after all she's done. Sunset showed a lot of potential for being a redeemed character. Moondancer, so far, really hasn't shown any.
I do love me some Yang Xiao Long.
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To build on this:
Moondancer HAS had opportunities to do the right thing. At ANY time while, say, eating lunch with the Seven, or when she's been alone with her aunt and uncle, or ANY time she's been away from home- she could have said "Hey, you know Tirek, the guy our family is sworn to defeat? Yeah, my dad and the woman who STOLE MY MOTHER'S SOUL with his help are attempting to resurrect him again. Think you could help me prepare to kill him?" And there still has yet to be any evidence that Mooney is being monitored, or under a Geas, or anything that might prevent her or scare her into NOT tattling once she has the chance. There's being conditioned, and then there's following your own nature. The evidence so far has been of the latter.
OR! When Sunset escaped from the Soul Lock- Moondancer now has PROOF that it's possible to get out, KNOWS that Apalla's soul is in there, AND has the chance to save Twilight and Twilight's friends from getting killed/soul-trapped by taking their place. YES it was scary, and YES it had no chance of working... but that right there was a moment that Moondancer cemented herself as a Grade-A amoral monster. Heck, in support of the paragraphs at the end of my comment- this bit right here... Moondancer claims to be almost entirely motivated by her mother's condition, but doesn't even think twice about ignoring this opportunity to reunite with her.
In contrast, Tempest seems to be more honest about her goals, motives and personal morals. She's doing horrible things, but she's also not trying to make excuses for any of it, or claim to be anything other than cruel and malicious.
Of course, that's not to say that, um, death or torture..."threats"? are warranted on Mooney. But she has so far been shown to have zero willingness to change how she acts and thinks, even when given opportunity. Jail would be best for her, or maybe if she got blasted with a big ol' Orbital Friendship Cannon, or perhaps a couple weeks in the Soul Lock herself. But even were Apalla to return to her body... I feel like Apalla would want to escape Tempest, and of course take Moondancer with her. But I think, again, given the chance to redeem herself, Moondancer would choose to stay in the mansion. "Hoping to destroy Tirek" and all... However, I think that what's actually going on, what the things you've written seem to be showing for Moondancer, is that she's lying to herself by telling herself she's trying to do GOOD.
Everything of her character that you've shown so far aren't the hallmarks of a Good person in bad circumstances that's been forced to make horrible decisions, but of a Bad person, in circumstances that perfectly suit her, who's trying to hang onto the notion that she's a Good person. If that makes any sense.
But yeah, that's how I read it.
I know I'm late to the party but I personally felt really bad for Moondancer throughout this fic. At first I was all "what the crap is wrong with this girl". But after hearing part of her backstory I totally felt for her. Reading the comments people made about her through me off. I don't understand how people can't feel for her. Love your fic and can't wait for the next volume!