• Member Since 13th Oct, 2013
  • offline last seen Apr 20th, 2021

Jordan179


I'm a long time science fiction and animation fan who stumbled into My Little Pony fandom and got caught -- I guess I'm a Brony Forever now.

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Jun
13th
2018

The Shadow Wars Story Verse as Alternate Universe · 3:53pm Jun 13th, 2018

Introduction

When I started writing the SWSV, in late 2013, I did not appreciate how much of my creative mind would be taken over by the project. Nor did I expect My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic to be as wildly successful as it has been. Even popular cartoon series usually last two or three seasons. MLP:FiM is on Season Eight, with a Season Nine in the works, and numerous movies already released.

When I started writing these stories, four and a half years ago, I expected a Season Four and maybe a Season Five, but no more. I figured that the show would go off the rails with Executive Meddling, and wind up canceled because it alienated its audience with a badly-done final season which might become non-canonical (see Gargoyles).

My original plan was to stick as strictly to possible to the mainline continuity, inventing only things which were unlikely to be contradicted elsewhere in the show. Ancient history, love affairs, the deeper natures of some of the enemies, and the future of decades yet to come, were the main focus of my stories.

I mostly succeeded -- until a development occurred that was pure canon, strongly linked to many other important canon characters and events, and hence couldn't be ignored; and which directly contradicted a major story arc of the SWSV. That was, of course ...

... the reformation of the Changelings under Thorax, in Where and Back Again, and much of Season Eight.

I. No Great Changeling War

This was bad for the SWSV, though great for both Changeling and Ponykind, because Starlight (whose basic Talent is monkeying with the innate Talents of others) and Thorax (a very special Royal Changeling) managed to accomplish something that in the SWSV isn't accomplished until the Changeling Diaspora, some 50 plus years in the future.

They transformed the Changelings of Hive Thorax into Neo Flutter Ponies.

In the process, they totally ripped out Chrysalis' power base among Changelings, to the point that she's going Lone-Mad and ranting at photographs in "The Mean Six." It's very obvious that, in the current main continuity, Chrysalis is unlikely to ever again be in a positon to launch the Great Changeling War, or be remembered for centuries or millennia among Changelings as a Demon Queen, whom Nurses will use as a boogeyman for generations of Larvae and Nymphs.

II. A Brighter Future

This is of course great news for both Equestrians and Changelings. The Reconciliation is happening now, in part personified by sweet little Ocellus, with no need of a colossal Great-Patriotic-War analogue fought on the plains of Avalon. Compound -- around the same age as Ocellus -- will grow up in a bright Hive warmed by Love, and enriched by cultural and economic exchange with Equestria, her great Talent appreciated by a sane King, instead of being cast aside by a mad Queen.

From the POV of the main universe, indeed, the Shadow Wars Story Verse would seem in many ways a nightmare "things went wrong" contiuity, even if the Shadows DO invade that world as they do the SWSV one.

The Changelings are gaining the fruits of the Reconciliation now, without having to go through as much horrible suffering. And that is an undeniably good outcome, both for them and for Equestria.

III. What of SWSV Characters in the Main Continuity?

Some of Chrysalis' nastier minions may find their way back to Chrysalis, if she survives unreformed. Chrysalis still might be able to reconstruct some of her power base, though she'd be a much smaller threat than in the main SWSV.

Compound is already born; she's a young Nymph, and she will tremendously benefit from a much more open Changeling culture, which will put her logistical talents to great use organizing trade contacts with Equestria and other lands. The same goes for many of her friends in the same caste, most of whom she will get to keep alive and well.

Cowl is a Larvae, and will also find much use for his administrative talents, whether or not he ever becomes friends with Compound. Carry, sadly, will probably never be born; he may well be butterflied away, unless his existence suits some Cosmic purpose.

In a freer Changeling society, a lot of personality types will become possible.

IV. What of Mainline Characters in the SWSV Continuity?

This is trickier. Obviously, one great danger for any mainline characters, such as Thorax or Pharynx, is that they will wind up dead -- either in the war, or executed by the mad High Queen Hunger that Chrysalis becomes. Thorax is likely to become a Straggler from the First Canterlot Invasion, as in the main continuity, in which case he probably winds up with Azure Sky at Ponyville. Pharynx probably remains loyal to Chrysalis -- with all the potential for tragedy that implies, especially given her sadism.

Ocellus will be a full-grown Infiltrator by the time of the War; her great skill at Shifting will be vital to the war effort. Her death in battle becomes unfortunately rather likely, though she might wind up being captured, maybe even turned by Fluttershy.

Many dramatic stories about these events become possible.

V. Other Hives

Absent the lash of High Queen Hunger's mad drive for total control, in the main continuity the other Hives are probably hanging back, waiting, and watching to see what happens to Hive Thorax before deciding to join the Reconciliation. They have little to lose by waiting; and everything to lose if Celestia's friendliness toward Thorax turns out to be a trap. All but the most aggressive Hives are probably eschewing taking Captives, and treating the ones they already have better, because they do not want too much resentment to block their possible deals with Celestia.

(This is very good for Landscape Carrot, who by this point is liked and trusted by most of Hive Evergloom anyway, and probably winds up being an ambassador to Celestia. This is of course also good for Evergloom, which gets to mostly survive).

Other possible future allies of Equestria are Hive Vespid and Hive Hidden Valley, in particular. It is also possible that some Hives become inimical to Equestria, independent of Chrysalis -- some of the nastier fan-made Hives would certainly qualify.

Conclusion

What do you think about these speculations? What do you think about the Heel-Race Turn the Changelings have taken in the main continuity? I'd be interested in hearing your opinions.

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Comments ( 17 )

Wasn't there massive fan outrage about the new changelings? I haven't really been following, but I think those are the ones commonly referred to as "colorful moose" and worse.

Personally, I find Chrysalis' continual attacks just sad at this point. Even the first one was something of a ridiculous plot. It would not have worked long-term. Many of the stories shipping Chryssy with someone explain it instead as a subterfuge plan (where her real goal DID get accomplished), or an attempt to make the ponies hate her.

As for the story becoming an AU now -- I don't really care. It was one of the first ones I read when I started off here, and is still one of my favorites for how interesting the premise is, and how well it works. But, for all that, it was an AU, and diverged from canon simply not by being it, in my mind. That never affected my enjoyment of the story, and frankly, it was much cooler than the original. The ideas of Celly and Luna as Fusion and Gravity, the tie-in with prior generations, the epic battles and powers, etc, actually even inspired a few things for me. The Nightmare battle was especially good, since otherwise she's something of a moron defeated by hippies.

Always awkward when canon does something you can't accomodate. It hardly invalidates the efforts that come before or after that moment, but it still stings.

As for a world using your past and canon's present, it's unclear how the Neo Flutter Ponies might react to Fluttershy. Ocellus might be a vocal part of the contingent that keeps voting her Teacher of the Month. (Indeed, some instinctual part of Fluttershy might see the School of Friendship as a Hive akin to Sweetfeather Sanctuary and whatever it is that lies beneath it, though possibly acknowledging Twilight as its Queen.)

The Celestias of each worldline might look upon the Pool of Truth, one grateful for what Starlight and Thorax achieved, the other left with a bittersweet melancholy as she learns that it went better elsewhere in probability space.

Actually, that might well be the Watsonian point of divergence. If Celestia foiled the infiltration attempt that prompted the counterattack on Hive Chrysalis, then the events of "To Where and Back Again" wouldn't have unfolded, Chrysalis would still rule, and Thorax would still be a refugee in the Crystal Empire. And Starlight might still be filled with doubt over whether she could be trusted with any sort of leadership role... :unsuresweetie:

Meanwhile, in one world, the Crawling Chaos gnashes several mouths in frustration even as he enacts a variety of contingency plans.

Keeping in mind that all of this is Fan Fiction and you have control over what goes into your works, you could utilize the show continuity with in your own. All you would have to do is incorporate elements that you like, from canon into your stories and l think things will work out on their own. For example, since you have incorporated Starlight, Trixie and Discord (in one form or another) into the SWSV, you could have them do the infiltration of the hive (as shown in the S6 finale) but with your own twist on how each got there and what they hope to accomplish with in. Perhaps on a lonely road out in a wild zone, Trixie aids a certain mare with a knack for magic, they become friends and later on they meet up.
Just my few cents and you ultimately are the one making the decisions

I personally never had much stock in the Changelings--if there's a huge fanon for it, I usually just ignore it and do my own thing with characters and things that have less attention. The most I've done with the Changelings is make the city of Applewood have a problem with them impersonating celebrities in Brotherly Bonding Time, with the group that Cheese and Tommy encounter being a bunch of stereotypical valley girls. Because sometimes I just want to be ridiculous.

Regardless, canon does whatever the heck it wants, and throws a lot of us fiction writers off any plans that they may have (even me, who stuck to minor characters to avoid that problem only for a certain ship *coughSugarMaccough* to throw me for a loop). Some will roll with the punches and come up with a good compromise, some may think canon has a better idea and change accordingly, some with just go the AU route, and some will just throw a tantrum because the show didn't follow their headcanon. Or any of the four depending on the situation.

But, hey, you still do whatever you want. It's not like the fandom police are going to chase you if you don't strictly adhere to canon. Sometimes, a fan has more interesting ideas than that of canon, anyway.

What's weird to me isn't what canon has invalidated of the SWSV, but what it has explicitly validated. Namely that hungry shadows from beyond the veil of reality seek to corrupt ponies and others to be their willing pawns, and that such evil places where their influence is felt still exist in the corners of Equestria. Before the S7 Finale I would have said that was way too dark to ever get added to the show.

Heck, if you care about the comics canon The Legends of Magic Annual 2018 seems like an alternate version of your verse, where the Pillars visit a world where Stygian led the shadows to victory thousands of years ago, and now rules over a dark place, ever seeking to expand into new dimensions and recruit the young alicorn princesses into service to the shadows.

The big turn to good by the Changelings en masse did surprise me, though it's been handled well since with characters like Ocellus and Pharynx. I've even gotten used to the 'explosion in a paint factory' look of the new Changelings.

I also like the idea of Chrysalis as a recurring villain -- possibly a rather pathetic one now that she's lost her swarm. Though I suppose she could always breed up a new one, provided she finds a father with the stamina to sire 1000 Changelings and has the time to raise the properly. "This is Thorax, my grubs. He's the one who ruined Mommy's life and yours as well. What will you do when you meet him?"

1000 Changelings, raising a variety of weapons: "WE'LL KILL HIM, MOMMY!"

On a related nite, I think Celestia and Equestria's new relations with the Northern Wolf Packs in the Ardiverse stories might have helped with the idea of the Friendship School in-universe. They will be meeting the wolves on their home ground and seeing how harshly they live, which would definitely give Twilight the idea of spreading Equestrian ideals through education.

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That's right. I read that comic and I didn't even think of that.

4882141

The way I look at it is that Thorax was one of Chrysalis' experiments, probably in producing a super Infiltrator with the ability to hyper-efficiently transduce Love into psychic energy, and the potential to be promoted to a Prince (and used to sire many more like himself) if things worked out.

From Chrysalis' POV, things did not work out. He was MIA after the first invasion of Canterlot, and (as we know) actually became a solitary Straggler (demonstrating the defectiveness of his eusociality and loyalty to Chrysalis), eventually winding up accepting Cadance as his Queen.

But what actually happened was more wonderful than Chrysalis could have expected. Thorax had the power to create a stable, long-distance and very slow draining Love-to-Energy link, such that a non-Changeling could provide energy to a Changeling effectively forever with no harm to the donor, and the Changeling use the energy so efficiently (due to better attunement) that it needed no more than one or a few such friends in order to never be Love-starved again.

What's more, with his Royal potential, he could grant a whole Hive this ability.

This was anathema to Chrysalis, though, because Chrysalis had invested in a predatory model of Changeling Love harvesting. She did not want long-term relationships with real friends, she wanted to rape Love from unwilling victims. What Thorax had learned to do was the exact opposite of this.

Yes, Chrysalis' continued attacks in the canon main worldline are sad, because the fact is that her whole approach is now obsolete. Even if she could establish a new Changeling Hive or gain control of one, her subjects would still be Love-starved compared to those of Thorax, and those of any other Queens or Kings who adopted his superior methods.

Right now, Chrysalis is in the position of a horse archer nomad barbarian who is trying to convince her people to stay with horse archer raiding instead of drilling for oil and operating mechanized forces.

4882141

I am really happy to learn that my work -- and that of Alex Warlorn -- has been a positive inspiration to you. If it helps, the key insight that led me to write Nightmares Are Tragic -- that the Mane Six won in part because Luna very much did not really want to kill them -- came from Ardashir in My Little Balladeer, where Pinkie Pie points it out to them.

4882154

These are some good suggestions.

4882154

As for a world using your past and canon's present, it's unclear how the Neo Flutter Ponies might react to Fluttershy. Ocellus might be a vocal part of the contingent that keeps voting her Teacher of the Month. (Indeed, some instinctual part of Fluttershy might see the School of Friendship as a Hive akin to Sweetfeather Sanctuary and whatever it is that lies beneath it, though possibly acks.nowledging Twilight as its Queen.)

Yes. I think in the SWSV worldliness where Thorax became the Changeling King and hence Ocellus wound up at the School of Friendship (which I think also got established in the worldlines where he didn't and thus she didn't), Fluttershy instinctively sees the School as a Hive in which she is one of the Princesses. It's interesting to see that even vanilla canon Fluttershy has a strong tendency to assume a leadership role to protect children, and to go all-out in the use of her powers to do so -- we see this as early as Season One's "The Stare Master."

The Celestias of each worldline might look upon the Pool of Truth, one grateful for what Starlight and Thorax achieved, the other left with a bittersweet melancholy as she learns that it went better elsewhere in probability space.

I could so see this -- especially after all the pointless bloodshed on both sides of the Great Changeling War, which is all avoided by Chrysalis' fall from power in the worlds where Thorax becomes King of that Hive.

Actually, that might well be the Watsonian point of divergence. If Celestia foiled the infiltration attempt that prompted the counterattack on Hive Chrysalis, then the events of "To Where and Back Again" wouldn't have unfolded, Chrysalis would still rule, and Thorax would still be a refugee in the Crystal Empire. And Starlight might still be filled with doubt over whether she could be trusted with any sort of leadership role

Very good point. Chrysalis probably escapes, but having not even come close to victory, she is much less likely to launch future attacks on Equestria. She might instead turn against the city-states of the South, which are much easier targets. Chrysalis might very well wind up warring against Equestria again, but at a different time and with a different force matchup. (She also still probably loses, in that case, because Equestria has a lot of reserve strength).

Starlight maybe rises to leadership in a different way.

4882416

The mass transformation of Chrysalis' Hive did take me by surprise, even though I'd envisioned something like them as the Neo Flutter Ponies, one of the future paths of the Changelings. (I figured that like the old Flutter Ponies they would be fed by energy from the biosphere, rather than long-term ultra-low-drain friendship links).

I think Chrysalis will be one of the big Season 8 villains, and that she will somehow regain some sort of power (though maybe not sanity) and carry off at least one more competent attack on Equestria. I wonder if she'll team up with Tirek? They both want different sorts of energy from the Ponies, though Tirek's treatment of Discord implies that Tirek is likely to try to betray her.

I hope they don't reform her. She's too excellent a villain for that. Plus, unlike Discord or Starlight Glimmer or Stygian or even Sunset Shimmer, there's been no hint of her being at all remotely nice. The very ultra-niceness (to the point of being effectively a PG-rated version of a G3 sympathetic character) of Duchess Chryssie implies that Queen Chrysalis is really, deeply evil.

On a related nite, I think Celestia and Equestria's new relations with the Northern Wolf Packs in the Ardiverse stories might have helped with the idea of the Friendship School in-universe. They will be meeting the wolves on their home ground and seeing how harshly they live, which would definitely give Twilight the idea of spreading Equestrian ideals through education.

It would also be cool if a Wolf wound up at the Friendship School ... !

4885527

On a related nite, I think Celestia and Equestria's new relations with the Northern Wolf Packs in the Ardiverse stories might have helped with the idea of the Friendship School in-universe. They will be meeting the wolves on their home ground and seeing how harshly they live, which would definitely give Twilight the idea of spreading Equestrian ideals through education.

It would also be cool if a Wolf wound up at the Friendship School ... !

I'll keep that in mind.

And in case I have to say it, if you ever want to use one of my characters in your stories go right ahead, I trust you with them.

PS: Very off-topic, but did you ever hear of an SF author named Charles Beaumont?

4884037
Thanks. I am once again flattered to hear that something I wrote was an inspiration to your own writing.

4884831

Thorax is likely to become a Straggler from the First Canterlot Invasion, as in the main continuity, in which case he probably winds up with Azure Sky at Ponyville.

Are you loco in the coco? Thorax was is Royal Caste Infiltrator/spymaster who has a Royal Caste Warrior/General pair-bounded with him. He knew enough of the changeling protocols to know to not get caught even doing the sting on the Crystal Empire to kidnap Shinning, Cadence and Flurry he wasn't even close to being caught. He even knew the path back into the hive, and was able to mask himself both as unanimate objects and from every other changeling in the hive. With this knowledge I believe he was training to be or was the vice-director of hive intelligence by the time of the 1st invasion . So I understand why he would both go the most distance from the hive, and one of the few places on the world where he would be able to gain love without much effort. Most likely since he already knew how to live under a tyrant, Thorax would be able to mimic a Crystal Pony recovering from Sombra's rule. And with the whole mass memory loss it would be easier there. So yeah in the SWSV I don't think he would go anywhere near Ponyville cause, if you count the IDW comics, Chrysalis has both spies there and has attacked twice. It would be like the cold war era vice-minster of the KGB staying in D.C. after defecting. Any assassin would now where to find him. However, with his strong seance of empathy and justice, I could see him being one of the first to join Queen Kindness, and resuming his role under her.

Pharynx on the other hoof, I have to agree with his most likely death in the SWSV. As a Royal Caste Warrior/General and a honest and loyal one at that I think he would most likely be killed by Queen Hunger herself. Just like Compound herself, he's too honest and outspoken. His true loyalty, as in cannon, is to the hive. Added to the fact that he's competent enough to be in charge of the main hive's defense in cannon, but not political enough to make friends, he most likely would run a fowl of the Queen's ire. Added with the extra bitterness of not having his bond-brother working for the hive, I could see him both winning a lot of the early battles of the war but being very harsh to any ponies he could find. I could also see him like General Yamato, realizing that there would be no long term winning, and that they would need to strike hard, dig in deep, and then sue for peace.

Ocellus funny enough I see her as living though the war with ease. Her role, as a Infiltrator/saboteur would make it tricky to live in the aftermath. Being very good at avoiding unwanted attention, yet smart and observant enough to make friends, she would easily find the enemies weak points and use her ability to shift into war forms to wreak havoc. However, like Thorax, I could see her questing what Queen Hunger is doing, and defecting to Queen Kindness really early on. I also think it's funny and smart that in cannon Thorax would send someling like her to the school of friendship.

Now Compound in cannon, I could easily see her being picked up to work directly under Pharynx. I could see him likely her strong straight forward mindset and loyalty to the hive above it's leaders. In fact I could see him sending her along with a up and coming administrator named Cowl to look over a sub-hive/outpost to watch for slavers out of Kludgetown. While there she meets with a nice but competent worker named Carry during the early days of construction and the three bond over a strange adventure. Yeah like Twilight said back in Cutie mark Chronicles, I believe friends can have a bond before the even met, especially in Equestria.

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