May
6th
2018
A genuine need for reader feedback · 1:23pm May 6th, 2018
I'm sure you've noticed that after several months, Stargate Shangri-La has finally updated. Now most of that is my fault, I hit a wall with my muse and Thunderclap and I decided to focus on other stories. One thing that did stand out to me during that time is one of the stories biggest flaws; how we wrote the Hallan-Earth negotiations. That, barring the thing with Floyd, has been the biggest sort of criticism the story has gotten. I'd like to pass a question off to the readers: Do you guys want us to go back and redo that part of the story, or just focus on going forward? Let me know you thoughts please and enjoy chapter 24.
Forward momentum is always good. Personally, I've always thought that re-writing major portions is best left for after the main story is complete; otherwise, you may get bogged down and never get that momentum back. Now, if it's really bothering you, then do what you have to do. Thanks for writing!
In my experience I've found that pushing forward is the best solution... You may be able to develop a harder rationale for the characteristics that makes sense as time goes on.
I'll echo the other two and say keep pushing forward, and either have them renegotiate later, or find better reasoning for the current agreement.
Is this about how Earth seems to have co-opted the control over what was originally Equestrian territory, and how the ponies are arguably also more knowledgeable in that area, and over the facilities that were claimed by Earth?
I had noticed that recently, and while it IS a problem, you could probably have that renegotiated or pointed out by someone -- probably a side character with a tendency to blurt things, or you could have one of the humans notice. That might actually be the better way to do it, because the humans have the upper hand in the current setup, so if one of them complains, it will look less like whining and be more likely to be noticed, reducing immersion-breaking. That assumes that you can find a way to add that that does not get SG yelled at by some of their more annoying or irrational superiors.
Surely there's precedent for ceding control to an allied alien race that knows more about what they are doing, especially if said race ALSO has the access genes?
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Just to clarify, it wasn't originally Equestrian territory, and only Discord would really know how it all works.
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Still, the alicorns were at least acquainted with the Precursors or whoever, and they also had access/knowledge of the base first. With it also being on their planet, and now using a lot of their magitech, it seems like there should be a bit more balance to the agreement.
I think you should press on, but you should go back to fix it at some point and make sure to tell us
As others said, I would suggest moving forward. However, if you have a general idea of the changes you want to make, go forward as if you had already made them. That way you won't keep piling up things you want to fix and can go back later for a smaller fix.
Push on! For certain. If you find an elegant way to address it, sure, but otherwise? It's better to go forward and learn from it than remain stuck in endless edit cycles :)
It's always better to rework flawed bits. Art is an iterative process, and too many writers on this website seem to think that novels ought to be constructed in a linear fashion. Nobody makes a drawing by starting at the feet, polishing it to perfection, and working up to the figure's head. You work on everything at once, and if halfway in it becomes apparent that the arm is flawed, you erase it and draw a new one.
Um...i don't recall having an issues about that part in the story, so I'd prefer to move forward.
But do whatever you think is best.
I haven’t had the chance to look at it yet got a ton of storys reading right now
Perhaps if we had more to which to respond than "how we wrote the Hallan-Earth negotiations"? I would need to know more about the nature of the complaints. The thing of it is that we have not seen diplomatic meetings between nations; not really. So far, all we have seen is an agreement to enter into joint military exercises. Perhaps if you stress the limited nature of the agreement reached? Also, the entire basis would be on shaky ground if there is an element of the human command that wishes to recognize "Discordia", and renegotiate entirely.
Obviously, all of this is opinion, and thus subjective.
Three issues:
1) Floyd.
He's... awkward. At times he's bland, other times he's the focus. Almost feels like he was supposed to be the reader's "vehicle", our straight man to see all this weird stuff going on. Be our reactions, etc. That's why his high affinity for Ancient tech wasn't really an issue. It explains why this plain Joe would end up in situations far outside of his skill range, it's so we can see those situations without having to "ride along" with Carter and Jackson all the time. His job was also great for that, why is he around all the time? Recording for posterity! I thought those two combined were a genius way to get an average character in the door, one without an agenda or a dog in the fight. Similar to what they did with Universe and the Gamer guy who's name I forgot.... man I wish that show had done better.
Where it got awkward was that he ended up in a relationship with a Pony, then got magical powers, near Alicorn tier at that. Each thing is fine on it's own (Mostly), it's everything combined.
He went from being a POV, to being.... well, he's NOT a Gary Stu. But, well, someone could be forgiven for thinking that.
The getting magic part itself wasn't the issue, it was the degree to which he did, especially if other humans start picking it up, like the amulet didn't give him magic, it ends up just being a focus that sped it up (The ancient gene could be tied into that, that'd be neat, Arch-mage O'Neil XD). Then he'd simply have been the first, not the sole person. I think this may have been what you were already going for, perhaps if you sped it up? Not the having powers part necessarily, but the indicators of it. Headaches, very minor surges, weird phenomena, etc.
As for his power level being over 9000, I'm a great reader, but, I'm not the best writer, how to fix that is not something I really know, and I can only speculate.
Perhaps if his power had been lower, substantially lower. Below Unicorn average in fact. That'd still be amazing coupled with Technology, even low levels “cantrips” would greatly aid in his endeavors. Then he could do “magical push-ups” and work his power up over time, after substantial effort.
Or, maybe the amulet increased his growth too much, and now he needs to wear a dampener for his own health due to his in-experience. Hell, I read a book series where the main character is a Private Investigator, who is secretly an actual angel, capable of almost anything. His main conflict is desperately holding onto what humanity he's built, which when he taps into his power, risks being destroyed, forever. If Floyd had to wear an inhibitor, so he could learn control and such, and stressing the inhibitor risked him destroying what little control he's learned, and possibly killing himself in the long term, maybe his high power level wouldn't be an issue overall. Then he could build up to his high power later on.
As for the relationship... I am bad at relationship advice. XD
Honestly, I think it would have been fine, barring the magic powers bit. The magic powers bit is what made him look too good, that last straw as it were. If you fix that, I think it'll be fine. Maybe if we got to see more stuff from her POV without him nearby? It seems like she mostly just exists to crush on him, and vice versa. No offense intended, going off of memory only, just started to re-read the fic again, and haven't gotten to that part again yet.
2) The Treaty.
It's an issue, and a non-issue. The treaty as is is fine, it could easily be resolved in story. The … forgot their name. The Human committee people that are obviously not self-serving, greedy or corrupt in any way. No sir-ee, nah uh. They really mangled their treaty, and against the recommendations of Floyd's Dad at that. Well, story's need conflict, that's a good one to start, and Stargate has a history of the various oversight groups proving time and time again that the Watchers do indeed need Watching.
Having the offended parties either air their grievances to Celestia or Luna, who could bring it to their attention is an option. She IS the most skilled and experienced Diplomancer on Equestria, bar none. Carter, Jackson, and Floyd's dad, coupled with her (With a sprinkle of O'Neil's mischief off to one side), is a lotta diplomatic horsepower. I prefer Celestia being the force behind it overall, with Luna tagging along (Perhaps, she was that prodded her into it?), because it gives the human oversight group something to distrust, that no one else will distrust, and also because she is being Waaaaaaaay too trusting and in tune with these strange people who just sorta arrived here and now have a city. I don't think she should distrust that, but, well, she joined their bandwagon mighty damned quick, and is carrying a LOT of water for them. Seems a bit out of character for someone with her level of political experience. I think them approaching Luna could also be interesting, since Celestia seems to hit the koolaid pretty hard from their perspective, and ask her to help them would be interesting, bet Luna would be flattered. She should still approach Celestia about it, unified front and all that, and things could progress from their.
Something else, is maybe the treaty should have been two treaties. The treaty over trade with Humanity and technology access, and the treaty over Gate use and city access. Maybe the treaty will be split, and that could smooth some feathers and fur.
I think the treaty issue can be resolved in story, and wouldn't need any re-writes.
3) Your satisfaction with the story.
I'm a bad writer, because I don't write much. I don't write much, because I'm constantly unhappy with what I write, and never make much progress.
So, I support the going forward option, it's a hard pill to swallow, one I myself can never seem to choke down.
But, I can understand if parts of the story are really sapping your enthusiasm and joy in the story.
The thing with Floyd has 3 basic fixes. A complete rewrite, a partial rewrite to adapt some areas, and just leaving it as is. Which of those would make you happiest? Would lead to a story you want to write?
The treaty is simpler, either a minor rewrite, or leave it stand and change it in story/plot over time. Which of these helps you get to what you're aiming for the best?
Because that's the real question, not what we would prefer, but which would help you with the story the most? Which would motivate you to write more the most? Because that one is the real answer.
Sorry if parts of this are inaccurate, working from memory, haven't gotten far in my re-read. Also, apologies if I was too blunt in areas, I usually try to get to know people before critiquing things for them, otherwise, I can be a bit blunt by accident. Also, apologies that more than half of this wasn't on the stated topic, but, well, to answer your question to my own satisfaction, I had to address the sub-issues first.
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Thanks for the feedback, but let me clear up a few things. Floyd is not in a relationship with a pony. Infact, said pony hasn't been in the story for quite a few chapters. As for the amulet, Floyd wouldn't have gotten magic without it, and in the last chapter we've shown that he's literally helpless without it.
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Haven't gotten to the two chapter's from back in may, just started earlier today (Last read was January? December? Time before that was August or September?), looking forward to when I get to them. :)
Just to clarify as well, any "suggestions" I made are not things I think you should do to make your story "Better", and more like examples of ways around difficulties you may or may not be having. I've never been a fan of using other peoples ideas, but I have cherry picked portions and themes from things offered, mostly for GMing role-playing games. Writing/Storytelling is an art, and art is mostly subjective, telling someone what they should do explicitly is a bit foolish because of that (Assuming you aren't discussing something technical or fact based).
The idea to make it so that without the amulet he has nothing was something I hadn't considered, I thought he was able to use it without the amulet, unsure where I got that, that is a nice way to balance it. Out of curiosity, if a child were born on Equestrian (To parents with the Gene if that matters), would they be able to get magic? How many generations would it take to gain it as something innate in your story?
As for the relationship part, still haven't re-gotten to it just yet. I had thought they had left it at "Just friends" with a possible "For now" added to it, which felt like it was going to be something else later. It's hard to predict where an author is going to go with something. The author knows what's in their own head, we only see what's written (Or, in comments, blogs, etc.) and we interpret it through our own POV, so what feels like something is heading somewhere can be a red herring. Guess that's what it was.
Thank you as well for writing the story, quite enjoyable to read. The SGC personnel are well done, O'Neil was very nearly spot on, and from what I read he's a PITA to get right, worst of the bunch. I've read official published books whose SG-1 team isn't as well characterized as yours. The pony side is a bit rougher, but that makes sense since you've had to create and make so much more there to worldbuild around them, and it still comes out good. This story is on my bookmarks list (Alongside stories like Legacy and The Dresden Fillies) for checking back every few months or so in the hope it'll update, and hey look, it did! :D
Regardless, good luck on your decision, and I look forward too reading more in the future! :D
(Edited for clarity and such)