Another Request for Help: Does this scene make sense #2? · 11:29pm Apr 29th, 2018
Hey all,
A while ago (in another blog post) I asked anyone who was willing to read a section of the chapter I am working on. After reviewing the feedback you guys gave me, I decided to re-write the aforementioned section (which was an interaction between Applejack and Dexter.) Some of you said that the conversation seemed a bit forced for the benefit of the viewer, and that what was being explained in that conversation had already been explained earlier in the story. I agreed, and decided to change the subject of the conversation to something which I hope felt more realistic, and geared toward new info rather than re-hashing old info.
However, I feared that this resulting conversation could do irreparable harm to how the character's interact with each other; which is something I am hoping to avoid. Read it and let me know what you think. I'll try to incorporate your feedback in order to make the story better.
For everyone else, consider this sneak peak and apology for the April Fools Joke I played a month ago.
[:::WARNING::: SPOILERS BELOW - DO NOT READ FURTHER IF YOU WISH TO AVOID SPOILERS]
--- [:::WARNING: SPOILERS:::] ---
//Prior to this section, Dexter admitted to Applejack everything in the story thus far. As a result, Applejack was angry enough to shout at Dexter for the first time in the story - placing an emphasis on her anger at the fact that he nearly got himself killed in his trip to the past, and that he shot, kidnapped, and drugged Twilight.
“WHAT REASON COULD JUSTIFY HOW YOU’VE BEEN ACTING?!”
“Just calm down, Applejack.” Dexter motioned once more, raising his voice while maintaining a calming tone. “Calm down, and I will explain that.”
She merely continued to glare at him while panting. “You did that on purpose, didn’t you?” Applejack accused. “The only reason ya made me promise ta keep yer secrets was to stop the princess and Twilight from finding out about all this, an’ it wasn’t ta keep anypony safe.” Applejack panted. “Ya knew Ah’d eventually get it out of you, so ya made me promise to keep yer secrets in order to make sure they didn’t find out about all this. And you used my desire to keep you safe as a way to manipulate me into making that promise.”
“Is it? Is that the reason?” Dexter challenged, allowing himself to start to get upset. “You’re the element of honesty, remember? If I was lying to you when I said I was keeping my secrets for the safety of others, you would have known.”
The lab fell into silence for a moment.
“So was I lying?” Dexter pressed.
Applejack didn’t answer, still panting from her rant. Both she and Dexter knew the answer was ‘no.’
“Perhaps it would be best for us to take a few moments to cool down,” Dexter suggested turning away from Applejack and heading deeper into the lab. “I shall get us some water.”
A few minutes passed by before Dexter returned carrying a saucer with two tall glasses of water on it. However, he was surprised to find Applejack in a heated discussion with the Quadraplex. Applejack was clearly still upset, however Quadraplex kept her responses plain and monotone as usual.
“What’s going on?” Dexter interjected after placing the saucer on the desk with the computer.
"Applejack was attempting to convince me on emotional and ethical grounds to regulate or diminish your irresponsible behaviors.” The computer stated directly. “She believes there is a significant chance you could hurt yourself or others. And although she has not stated it directly, she has strongly implied that she wants me to disclose the existence of your secret laboratory and your associated actions to the other equines.”
“You promised, Applejack!” He pointed an accusatory hoof at her. “I should have known better than to ever trust you! At least I know now that the word of the Element of Honesty is no good.”
If glares could kill, Dexter would have died on the spot. Applejack’s ears pinned back against her skull as she lowered her head to eye level with the colt. “Ah ain’t a liar like you, Dex.” Applejack replied through clinched teeth. “An’ Ah keep my word, I won’t tell anypony your secrets. But that doesn’t mean Ah have to like it, or that what yer doing is right!”
“Here’s your water,” Dexter declared, still upset. He pushed one of the glasses toward Applejack before taking a drink from his own.
“It’s not drugged, is it?” Applejack eyed the glass.
Dexter paused to put down his drink. “No,” He declared with a frown. After waiting for her to take a drink herself, he continued. “Now Applejack, I do not apologize for what I’ve done, despite the consequences for you, Twilight, the princess, or even the whole town.”
“At this point I have told you what I have been doing, but not why I have been doing it.” Dexter went on. “And once you know, you will understand how my actions are justified.”
“I’m not sure I want to know at this point,” Applejack remarked, looking into her glass.
“Everything I’ve done was to keep my lab a secret. The technology in my laboratory cannot be released into Equestria.” Dexter declared. “The results could be devastating for the entire planet.”
“You sure?” Applejack asked. “All I see is the occasional fancy gadget.” Under normal circumstances Dexter would have been offended, but at this point he hardly noticed.
Dexter bit his lip, suppressing his frustration. “Applejack, you see over there?” Dexter pointed to a far off point in his lab with his hoof. “Over there I build rockets with nuclear engines in order to launch satellites into deep space. One engine model I made utilizes uranium two-thirty-five.”
“If abused, Uranium two-thirty-five can be used to create a weapon called a nuclear bomb,” Dexter turned back toward Applejack. “I have enough material back there to make fifty bombs with a thirty-five megaton yield each.”
Applejack raised an eyebrow, not grasping the meaning of the colt’s words. Of course, Dexter easily picked up on this fact.
“A single thirty-five megaton uranium nuclear bomb detonation is enough to level a city.” Dexter explained. “And is capable of killing hundreds of thousands to several million in a single strike. Burning to death, vaporizing, or irradiating everyone within forty-five kilometers.”
Applejack’s eyes went wide.
“That’s just the start…” Dexter pointed in another direction. “Over there is the chemical and material engineering portion of my lab. I use it to make materials I need for my experiments. It contains the knowledge required to make chemical weapons that would kill everyone in the entire town in ways too horrific for you to even imagine.”
“Dexter stop.” Applejack shook her head. “I don’t want hear anymore-“
“No!” Dexter retorted. “You just spent the past ten minutes yelling at me for the lengths I’ve gone to keep my lab a secret; so you’re going to know why!”
“Look over there, Applejack.” Again, Dexter pointed in another direction. “That’s the biological research sector of my lab. I use it to research the biology of flora and fauna, as well as to make cures for diseases should the need arise. However, within it I could create a hyper-virulent super virus capable of wiping out over ninety-nine percent of the global equine population; making the pony species extinct. And I could do all that in fifteen minutes!”
The lab fell into complete silence as Dexter finished. Applejack scrutinized him with equal parts confusion and fear, hoping to sense a lie in his words.
But she could only find truth.
“And those are the ways some of the basic technologies in my lab could be abused,” Dexter pointed out. “We haven’t even gotten to the more interesting inventions like my time machine.”
“With that knowledge, do you really think it wise for me to go outside and come clean?” Dexter pressed. “Should I go outside and tell everyone within reach, psychotic princesses and changeling infiltrators alike,that such technologies and their capacity for abuse is within a stone’s throw of your backyard?!”
Silence once more fell over the lab as Dexter turned toward Applejack for an answer.
The mare clearly didn’t have one, still staring at Dexter in a state somewhere between shock and fear.
When it became clear that Applejack didn’t even know what to say, Dexter sighed, letting his gaze drift toward the floor. “Do you now see why I keep my lab a secret, at any cost?”
Dexter looked back up at Applejack to find that she had taken a few steps closer to him. Her expression was filled with worry and fear. However, she surprised Dexter by pulling him into a hug.
“I’m scared, Dex.” Applejack admitted, her tone betraying the truth to her words. “I’m scared of this lab, I’m scared of what it contains. But I am also scared for you.”
“All I want is to go home, Applejack.” Dexter admitted, a wave of fatigue washing over him as the events of the past few days began to catch up with him.
“I know,” Applejack squeezed him a little tighter. “And I know why you feel the need to keep your lab a secret. But if it’s so dangerously, you should dismantle it…”
“Then I might never find my way home…” Dexter looked up at Applejack. “I would never see my parents, or my sister, ever again.”
Applejack grimaced. Understanding too well what it was like to be orphaned, Applejack hardly knew if she could bear asking him to tear down his lab.
“Dex, I have been around ya long enough to know yer a good pony at heart,” Applejack began. “But would it be possible to remove the dangerous parts of your lab? To remove any potential of abuse?”
“Maybe,” Dexter admitted. “I could remove some things. But technology is like magic, Applejack.” Dexter explained, using an example he thought Applejack would understand. “It is not inherently good or evil, what counts is how you use it. As such, every technology can be abused.”
“I can’t create power source without creating a potential weapon,” Dexter went on. “I can’t create the tools to cure a disease without simultaneously making tools that could make diseases worse.”
“Ah think Ah understand well enough,” Applejack nodded. “A unicorn can’t cast a spell to light a fire to heat his home, without casting a spell to light a fire that could burn his home down…”
“Something like that,” Dexter chuckled weakly, another wave of fatigue hitting him. “I’m so sorry Applejack, for everything…”
“It’s okay Dex, I understand why you felt you had to do what you did.” Applejack looked back down at the colt. “But you should really apologize to Princess Luna, whether you come clean with her or not.”
Dexter nodded in agreement.
“Ah, Ah have some things to think about.” Applejack finally said, pulling away from Dexter.
“I would understand if you want to send me away,” Dexter admitted, tried to hide a tinge of regret. However, Applejack merely shook her head.
“I wouldn’t send you away, Dex.” Applejack answered. “It’s like I found out you were secretly a really really powerful magic user. I wouldn’t send you away just for that. Though, to be honest, I would have an easier time of it if you were secretly an alicorn capable of dragging the sun and moon across the sky instead of a…”
“Super genius?” Dexter filled in.
“That’s one way of putting it.” Applejack admitted. However after a moment of thought, she suddenly frowned. “But that doesn’t mean you get a free pass on the way you’ve been behaving! Ah’m laying some new ground rules!”
“Rules?” Dexter recoiled in surprise.
“Yeah, fer one; you’re not allowed to use yer lab for anything without my permission. You’re not ever allowed to come in here unless I say so.” Applejack declared.
“What?!” Dexter objected, pointing a hoof at Applejack. “I can’t agree to that, I use my lab to protect myself from changelings who have attacked me twice over the past few weeks!”
Applejack frowned, biting her lip. “Fine. But another rule is this: You’re not allowed to ever shoot, drug, or kidnap Twilight. Or anypony else, got it?”
“Uh, I guess I can live with that…” Dexter reluctantly agreed.
“And under no circumstances are you allowed to attack the guards!” Applejack declared.
“But-“
“No buts!” Applejack cut in. “And no time travel, or anything else that could be really dangerous!”
Dexter visibly deflated. He knew he was forgetting another reason he didn’t want Applejack to find out about his lab.
“What was the weapon you used to fight the changelings at the bakery?” Applejack pressed, causing Dexter to look back up at her.
“It was… a cannon.”
“No cannons!” Applejack declared. “You’re not allowed to use cannon’s anymore, and if I find out you’re using I’ll tan yer hide.”
“Does that… apply to guns?” Dexter asked hesitantly.
“What are guns?” Dexter asked with a raised eyebrow.
“Sort of… miniature cannons…” Dexter answered.
“No guns!” Applejack pointed a hoof at Dexter, before pointing it at the computer.
“And you!” Applejack pointed toward the computer. “You’re just as accountable as him!”
“I am beholden to execute the instructions of my builder.” Quadraplex stated simply, her monotone voice never wavering. “Even if they violate your rules.”
“These rules are to keep Dexter safe. Are you beholden to keeping Dexter safe, even from his own foolishness?” Applejack countered. There was a silent moment as the computer processed her question.
“Yes,” Quadraplex answered. “I will comply.”
“Applejack,” Dexter groaned. “I can’t work like this…”
“You said you made your lab to pursue science, is that true?” Applejack’s gaze shifted back to the colt, scrutinizing him for any hint of a lie.
“Yes, but-”
“Then you don’t need cannons! Ah will not permit an eight year old child, no matter how smart, to have cannons, bombs… guns” Applejack repeated. “Or any other fancy weapons you might think of. You could hurt yourself, understand?”
“Armory sealed and locked.” Quadraplex responded.
“Computer!” Dexter protested before turning back to Applejack. “What if a changeling attacks me or something!?”
“Then you run and hide,” Applejack ordered. “Heck, you can hide here inside yer secret laboratory where you know it is safe. But if somepony is trying to hurt you, you tell me, another adult, or one of the guards.”
“This is absurd!”
“Really, Dex?” Applejack lowered her head to eye level with the colt. “And how do you think I would react if Applebloom came up to me and told me she had a secret lab filled with cannons, bombs, guns, and any other manner of dangerous inventions?”
Dexter silently contemplated her question for a few moments. “You’d… take them away from her?”
“Yeah well, since I can’t take you away from the knowledge inside yer noggin. The next best thing I can do is tell you that yer not allowed to use it.” Applejack replied. “An’ remember one thing. I promised not to tell anypony yer secret, not that I wouldn’t discipline you.”
“I don’t have to follow any of your stupid rules…” Dexter grumbled under his breath.
“What was that?” Applejack pressed.
“I’ll… try to adhere to your rules, Applejack.” Dexter said more loudly, giving up on arguing with her.
“Good,” Applejack replied. “Because Ah’m gonna ask you every day if you broke any of them. And I’ll know if you’re lying.”
The lab fell into momentary silence once more.
“Dexter, you asked for me to inform you when it was 2 a.m.” Quadraplex stated.
“2 a.m.?” Applejack asked in surprise.
“It’s hard to tell time down here without any windows.” Dexter admitted. “Before you go to bed Applejack, take this.” The colt reached into a drawer underneath the computer terminal. He retrieved what appeared to be a stereotypical dream catcher, however it had a number of runes that Applejack had never seen before.
“This is a dream catcher, it was made by Star Swirl the bearded.” He explained. “Place it under your pillow. It will prevent Luna from attempting to ask you questions in your sleep. You’ll need it in order to keep your promise to me.”
Applejack eyed the trinket before taking it from Dexter’s outstretched hoof. “I’m not certain I’m gonna be able to sleep tonight anyway.”
“And take this, put it in your ear.” Dexter said, producing a small device no larger than a penny.
“What is it?” Applejack asked skeptically.
“It’s a radio earpiece, it will allow us to speak to one another even if were are a great distance apart.” Dexter responded. “Should anything happen, just press it and it will put you in direct contact with Quadraplex, who can put you in contact with me.”
“How are you gonna stop the princess from reading your dreams?” Applejack asked as she pushed the ear piece into her ear.
“I ingested dream inhibiting drugs,” Dexter answered simply.
“No drugs!”
“Too late…”
---
About the only thing I'd say is that if Dexter is so traumatized by his trip back in time, he shouldn't be agreeing to apologize to Luna so readily. Make it clear he's lying through his teeth, or has genuinely come to feel bad about it. Otherwise I'd say it's fine.
Yeah it makes sense but please get to him speaking to celestia.
Great update! Can't wait to see the next chapter. I can really emphasize with both sides in this scene. Applejack acknowledges Dexter's genius but is still his legal guardian and disciplines him as needed. Dexter makes Applejack understand that the world isn't ready to handle his knowledge and that while some of his actions have been dubious, they are well intentioned. He doesn't believe that they can handle it and evidence both past and present have vindicated his viewpoint. But this certainty has made him arrogant and often condescending to others. His brush with Luna and Celestia in the past have not given him any confidence in them both as leaders and as people, and while his interaction with them in the present is limited his recent time travel escapade has severely affected his perception of them. Hopefully the meeting between the old "friends" will lead to a long needed discussion and development for all parties involved.
I don't know why but I find Applejack very annoying in this scene. She already knows he is incredibly smart and yet she acts as if he doesn't know what he is doing nor take care of himself. It seems kinda odd given what she herself has done in the show and how the manesix has winged some of their adventures.
I had to reread it several times but I think its how Applejack reacts to Dexter that I find most annoying. Stopping Dexter from attacking other ponies I can understand but not trying to find out more about how Dexter does what he does seems kinda out there. Its seems she is reacting more to the fact he has a lab he built himself with out her permission/help rather then the fact he built a lab by himself.
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Snuffy
Going off what snuffy said in the last "does this make sense" it seems this went in the opposite direction. As he said the most important thing to applejack is Dexters wellbeing and that he grows up to be a good pony.
My main gripes are how easily he agreed to apologize to Luna, and how he didn't at least argue for weapons to be "in case of emergency" rather than full-on banned. After all, running isn't always an option, especially when it isn't just his life that needs defending. For example, what if a certain yellow furred, red maned earth pony filly and her friends were in trouble and there was nobody else around to help?
And before anyone suggests bringing them with him through the teleporter, I have a rather compelling counterargument; picture the mayhem that DeeDee causes whenever she breaks into the highly advanced facility that is Dexter's Lab. Now recall the chaos and bedlam that the CMC manage to create whenever they go "crusading" in the relatively rural community that is Ponyville. Now imagine what would happen if the CMC found their way into The Lab while experiencing the adrenaline of a life or death situation, combined with the amazement and curiosity that comes from seeing The Lab for the first time. And keep in mind, Dexter literally just finished explaining to Applejack how some of the things in there could potentially cause mass destruction and/or genocide if mishandled.
...It's a lovely mental image, isn't it? You're welcome.
4850266
Yeah, all she's doing is ensuring that Dexter is "safe" enough not to have something that could cause an accident, but exposed enough that he cannot defend himself. The changelings have already attacked him where he cannot run, for Celestia's sake! Or did AJ forget that one of them already pretended to be a schoolteacher and cornered him?
The eight-years-old argument loses strength when the kid in question has actual experience; Dexter just said that the ponies lack the experiences, plus, even some adults are less prepared/trustworthy than the eight-year-old we're discussing. AJ needs to understand that, sometimes, age is just a number that doesn't matter in light of other, more relevant, factors.
Hmm... A few things:
First, I can't imagine this conversation leading off with anything other than "Luna almost killed me. She broke my ribs and my back." That would HEAVILY sway AJ into understanding Dexter's perspective and why he's so angry with Luna.
Next, given the threat to Dexter, her family, and her friends; I can't see AJ making a promise to keep secrets without some basic caveats like "so long as it doesn't put anyone in danger."
Next, and this is my biggest issue here, there is zero reason for Quadraplex to side with Applejack on this. She (was Quadraplex ever gendered? I always see it as a mother figure) has zero empathy towards ponies and even less trust that they can keep Dexter safe. If anything, She would insist Dexter be armed and armored every hour of every day, and if that endangers the ponies around him, well... better they get hurt than Dexter be less protected. Dexter has proven himself capable time and again, so the "hurt himself" argument is pretty empty.
One thing I really liked was Dexter pointing out the duality of science. That the same technology that provides energy to a nation can be used to destroy that same nation, that the knowledge to cure disease to cure thousands can spread sickness to kill millions.
I also don't think Dexter can promise not to use or create a lab. Dexter is a scientist, he can't not be one. And he uses tools to explore the world around him. He may make that promise, but there's no way he would be able to keep it.
As for the interpersonal aspect: Yes, by bludgeoning Dexter with her ability to detect lies and basically forcing him to promise to leave himself defenseless as well as give up everything he loves doing, Applejack would be destroying any kind of relationship they could have. I'm not saying to change that though. In fact, I think it's a good story element. AJ is a good pony, but she can't bring herself to trust Dexter. And her making a mistake like this would force him to either abide by her rules, which would make him miserable and/or captured by changelings or the princesses, or break her rules; which would continue to erode his trust in her and eventually force him to leave the Apple Farm.
I think it's great as it is. My opinion is that Applejack's trust was betrayed ages ago and Dexter really needs to earn that trust back and this will force him to become a better person. He really needs to learn how to consider others feelings before he acts in such a reckless manner he normally does.
4850301
(thinks back to the Prologue chapter of Nightmare Trip)
...Yeah. Yeah, I can see that happening.
4850305
That's the thing; she never had his trust before, and Dexter ranks overall safety higher than her trust. Not only that, but AJ is working on assumptions and, lets face it, an incredibly condescending attitude towards children in general.
She expects Dexter to trust all adults completely and without doubt or question, despite knowing that a changeling was already with him, alone, isolated, with the very explicit intention of targeting him using the guise of an adult that's trustworthy. She expects him to trust the guard completely and disclose EVERYTHING when it's been already repeatedly demonstrated that that is only going to put him in danger; there are changelings in the guard, and she knows it, and she knows that someone has already targeted Dexter and his inventions - it seems that everyone has already forgotten that the changelings used guard disguises to get to the scanner! And AJ expects Dexter to trust these guys?
I do must say that AJ seems remarkably in-character; she's stubborn, and once she gets into her head that something is the right thing to do it's really hard to convince her otherwise even when presented with something that outright tells her that it's dangerous, until it's on the verge of being too late. The adults are good guys, so you can trust them and more so if they are guards - what was that? They have already attacked you for what you can do both back home and here? And they have repeatedly shown that the enemy is too entrenched to be sure you'll be safe if you allow yourself to trust them? I don't care! You go there and fess up because it's the right thing to do because I SAY it's the right thing to do!
EDIT: And I forgot to address the other point: Yes, Dexter is reckless, mostly because he's still a child. Yes, I know I said that he's got experience and stuff, but there are still some lessons that haven't quite set inside his brain. He's quite used to things working out fine thanks to his prodigious intelligence, and mostly alone with only occasional intervention of other people either on his level or Deedee. Yes, he does need help and someone to look out for his safety, but Applejack is, in my opinion, one of the least qualified to do so - YES, she'll treat him like family and all, but she does not exactly hold a stellar record when it comes to children even if they are family, much less one with Dexter's level of independence, will, and intellect.
He's not originally a pony. He does not think along those lines; he's more willful and not wired to rely on the herd (and more so when that herd proves to be unreliable in the first place). AJ is trying to force a square peg to fit the triangle hole, and even if he were a pony, she's working on bad data and a lack of understanding (and lack of desire to obtain that understanding OR better data) that just makes me mad.
4850301
I agree that luna thing could help sway her but I say that Applejack should stay stubborn until something happens like Dexter being in trouble and breaking a few more bones, after that he might be able to get her to agree to weapons.
also as a side thing, I really hope that he tells the ponies what the element said about almost killing luna that seems like something that needs to be said for the good of everyone.
To a large extent, yes. Nothing is glaringly wrong.
Adults, as a general rule, and for good reason, have a low opinion of child decision making. Alegidly this is not just because of lack of experience, but also because their brains dont have the ability to comprehend cause and effect nearly as well.
If not for the earpiece, i would have complained about lack of an easy way for handling an emergency. With it, Applejack can override those restrictions if it ever becomes nessesary.( and knowing Dexter, Chrysalis, and others, it will....)
I Don't recall Starswirl giving him the dreamcatcher. Was it part of his hat/ visible for a moment, and Dexter's suit recorded the structure or what?
I always like when people acknowledge that anything productive, tools, technology, magic, etc, can always be turned to destruction.
Pegasi flight and weather manip. Dropping stones... or iron spikes. Creating rain to ruin ground terrain or w.e.... Lightning strikes.
And I can never see Rarity multiwielding sissors, needles, and cloth without acknowledging her ability to strangle, stab or cut just as easily.
Just as much, however, as any person on the street might pull out a knife or simply grapple me to the ground. Unlikely, but still something everyone you see is fully capable of. Strange then that you can walk down the street without even thinking that these are possible things that could happen.
I edited my post previous to this one, in case someone has missed it.
4850350
And while decision-making skills are something I can understandably see adults being wary of, they also have low opinions on everything else. Children can be much, much more perceptive than adults give them credit for (I'm glad to say that my mom knows it; saved us some trouble) and certainly their intellect. AJ is just a blatant example. She's not just objecting to his choices, but his experiences as well - if he'd been attacked by Timberwolves twice with little chance to escape, and he made a Timberwolf-repelling gadget for the near-inevitable third time, I can easily see her objecting to that as well and demanding he leave behind the gadgets that saved him the first two times as well.
Only HER idea of what's right is... well, right. Everyone else's is WRONG if they don't agree.
4850305
Problem is, after the talk he had with the elements, he's going to do everything he can to distance himself emotionally from the element bearers to prevent being taken over. Which means he may just intentionally go against her wishes solely to keep his connection to the elements of harmony as strained as possible.
Dexter would never tell her about guns existing, directly after she just forbade him from using canons. This isn't even a genius thing, this is a gut reaction that a kid would follow. If an adult makes a mistake, while punishing you, you never correct them(that's how I was at least). He'd let her stay under the assumption that he wasn't going to use any more cannons, and use all the technically different weapons there are. Seriously, humans have made so many weapons throughout history that I doubt she could ever cover all the bases.
Normally, I'd suggest that Quadroplex would tell her about Dex's lie by omission, but I believe that that would be OOC. I kinda think her actually siding with AJ on those rules to be OOC, and assumed that she was just putting on an act to get AJ out of the lab.
She wants Dex to be safe, and most of these rules(barring the time travel one) would ultimately limit them and outright endanger them in certain circumstances. She has no respect for pony authority, so I fail to see her ever actually siding with AJ.
Also yeah, agree with those below on forgiving Luna too easily, it doesn't make sense for an 8 year old to forgive anyone who harmed them that easily, genius intellect or no.
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She's the Element of Honesty, she can tell lie by omission (not being honest), that's kind of the point of divulging so much information to AJ. If he could get away with not doing it, he wouldn't. But he knows that she increasingly can't be pacified by anything less than full disclosure. Plus, she is a sounding board for ideas. Dexter has the power to do whatever he wants, but he is still playing within some rules here.
4850422
And it does not help that AJ acts like she's in the right simply because she's the adult. She's acting like everything goes the way she wants it to go and she already knows everything, when she's nowhere near informed enough to ensure her own safety, much less Dexter's.
Dexters motivation is to KEEP HIS LAB SECRET BE ANY MEANS
This means doing it, even if he hurts people he loves, like his parents. In no way Applejack is more deserving(/trustworthy) of being in charge of his lab than his actual parents. And info dumping stuff HE IS HIDING, goes against his main motivation, and premise of story.
Dexters secret laboratory is not secret, or Dexters, if Applejack is suddenly in charge of it(as in limiting access and what he can do), and knows about it.
Also Dexter seems dumber than he should be, and so is applejack. ALso no arguments about Luna, or asking about asking Twilight to understand stuff that's over Applejacks head.
IMO it would be better if Granny Smith Discovered it instead of Applejack, or something. These interactions seem forced and out of character, For Dexter and Applejack. Applejack CAN'T keep secrets by her virtues as element of honesty. Having her do so, or having Dexter trust her to keep them is out of character.
4850422
Didn't he already get a few lies by omission by her earlier in the story though? I really don't see why he would divulge that information so easily, unless he was directly forced to.
4850435
The problem is that AJ is way too close to the truth already, as are Twilight and Luna. Dexter needs to stop at least one of them so that they don't pool their knowledge together and discover him for sure; Luna is... well, Luna, so she's out, and Twilight is Celestia's personal student and is collaborating with Luna way too much already, leaving Applejack as the easiest one to stop by means of making her promise to keep the secret.
Giving her any sort of authority IS too much, but Dexter does need to make a compromise (I'd ask for a smaller one than this) if only to prevent AJ from doing something (even) more stupid than trying to get him to confess to the guards DESPITE KNOWING THE GUARD IS FULL OF CHANGELING SPIES.
AJ treats Dexter like "just a child", and underestimates his ability to understand the situation he's in, while she simultaneously does NOT understand it nor puts any effort in attempting to understand it.
4850438
He was told by the changeling that lies of omission to the Element of Honest would become increasingly less effective the more he interacted with Applejack and the more suspicious she became, and Dexter has been doing mighty suspicious things lately.
Plus, the Element of Honesty in the past outright told him that it would let Applejack know straight up if he withheld information in any way from then onwards.
4850445
Dexter could just move it to hide it again. Or mind wipe applejack. Or Refuse to cooperate. Taking punishment for lying is better than telling the truth in this case.
Like would you give North Korea nukes, to stay out of detention, if you could avoid it by just suffering a detention?
Dexter does not trust adults, for their own good.
Like Dexter could just run away from home, if he has to. Maybe move in with changelings and become like the next villain Mane 6 have to fight.
Like if "Running away with changelings to become a minor villain" is more reasonable, and safer for the world, than telling stuff to Applejack (and it is, since applejack CAN'T lie, or keep secrets), IMO you should reconsider the premise.
Also Discovering the lab should be bigger event. Dexter shouldn't just bring Applejack in, Applejack should discover it by herself first.
Like I have not seen any possible motivation for Dexter to trust Applejack. And how Applejack is acting, Dexter is just being dumb, and shooting himself in the foot for not getting kidnapped. Like he is putting himself into danger for no good reason.
IMO he should just move(/evacuate) his lab, or at least the important parts, and initiate self destruct sequence when discovered, While denying everything and enduring punishments for lying, without compromising himself. Maybe Running away, or teleporting out, if ponies put it together by themselves. This would make sense.
Him trusting, only for Applejack to betray his trust, while other ponies put it together anyway, and Applejack giving more information away, while keeping him defenseless does not make any sense.
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Dexter is literally holding back Apocalypse, or at least a world war. Hurting someones feelings is nothing in comparison to making everyone die few years down the line.
Yes, he is reckless, but trusting someone who will endanger the safety of the world is exact opposite of being better person.
While Dexter in not NICE, he is the epitome of a hero, meaning that he is a really good person. Yes, he is not perfect, but he is more responsible than any pony in the show. See the Pie family episode to see how applejack deals with stuff. While Applejack tries to be responsible and good, she just ends up doing whatever she wants, and more often than not causing bad consequences SHE DOES NOT FIX. Dexter at least tries to fix any mistakes he makes, unlike her.
Dexter, as a superhero era character, is much better person than Applejack, or Twilight, even while being careless and rash.
Applejack is trying (and failing) to take care of her family. Dexter, is single handily saving the world, while making discoveries to make it better. Like sure Applejack is element of harmony, but in the big picture she doesn't really do anything to save the world, exempt for being there, while Twilight does her thing. Also Dexter, a kid, has done better job than 6 adults that have support of government.
Dexter can't afford to be nicer person. He tries, but it always ends badly for everyone.
Loved it. Several things to note, however.
I'm all for Dexter apologizing to Luna since I'm secretly hoping they develop something of a mother/son bond, but I think there needs to be a bit more reasoning behind why Dexter would even consider apologizing, such as having him question why he was so cruel to Luna, in the first place, despite him knowing logically that Luna and Nightmare Moon are separate entities(as evidenced in Nightmare Trip when he spied on Luna speaking to the Nightmare), leading to him eventually discovering the lingering effects the Nightmare had on him and his psyche.
Also, I'm not sure if you clarify this in the full chapter, but if not, it should be.
In this passage, you imply that Applejack doesn't know where the lab is, but in the last sneak peak and this one it's shown that their talk takes place inside the lab. Does this mean that they teleported in or Dexter somehow got her into the lab without her being aware? It's just something small that should be clarified for consistencies sake.
I'm also not sure how Dexter's relationship with the changelings and, by proxy, Chrysalis is supposed to go. Obviously, he can't view as enemies since he was willing to work with them in the past and Chrysalis no doubt remembers that, yet from what Dexter was saying and implying, he still views them as his enemy. Just to note, I didn't say he had to trust them; I'm just saying that Dexter, unlike all other ponies, is actually aware that the changelings aren't evil and out to destroy pony kind.
Lastly, I think you did Applejack pretty well, though, I do think Quadraplex would side with Dexter when it comes to using weapons, or at the very least make some sort of compromise since his safety is her top concern.
P.S: Just a quick question. Has Celestia seen any pictures or records of the canon they recovered from Dexter when he beat back the changelings at Sugarcube Corner, and if she has, has she recognized as the same type of canon he used in the past. Also, will Discord be coming back in the future? He was one of my favorite parts in Nightmare Trip.
The criticisms DO make sense, even if they aren't completely OOC... especially the whole "no way Dexter would reveal the lab period" thing. I COULD, however, see Twilight regaining some memories from the whole kidnapping thing (Dexter would have no reason to think magic could lessen the effect of the amnesia drug after all), and this making her too informed to prevent discovery by any means... Also helps that, unlike AJ, she's actually taken some of his criticisms of her to heart in the past (namely the whole "unintentionally tribalist" thing), so between that and her general intellect, he might have just enough of an added reason to trust her with some of this for it to not be OOC, even if it would be if it were AJ being trusted.
I think that, really, he trusts these ponies to have his best interests in mind, but not to have any idea what those actually are or to get said idea. Twi could reach that point eventually, but AJ simply isn't scientifically minded enough to do the same regardless of anything else.
This makes me sad that I voted for him to get away all that time ago, I thought it meant something different and after reading a comment that persuaded me I realized it was too late to change it. I actually hope he never gets back it might sound dark but he was an outsider in his home world anyway and a lot of his family's actions do seem like abuse by ignorance and if he can control his inventions (possibly through a middleman that could sell the cures and helpful things without revealing how to make them or abuse their power) he could create that future from his movie without the whole mad max middle part.
I have just a few questions. Can Dexter bend the rule of no weapons with robots that use the weapons? I mean AJ only restricted HIM. not his robots.
Also Why doesn't he point out that both the guard and the Elements masterfully failed to protect him and his Teacher as the Changelings attacked her and kidnapped her and took her place and then later attacked Dexter? Or in the bakery where the Changling were in the middle of all this ponys and they all failed again to notice them or stop them?
And I know AJ is a control freak and can never admit that she was wrong even if she was. But Both Dexter and his AI should know better then to agree to this disarming terms and the limitations of his research as they are made by someone who failed to protect the people she should protect (AB was a whole day in the same room as a changeling and no one stopped them and so again.). I mean he can just clearly tell her that all this attention from guards and Changelings comes from a MEDICAL machine, a machine that makes just a diagnose nothing more and nearly everyone wants his head for it.
But beside this points I don't see anything that could be bad ^^.
Also the little Joke was not so bad. Waiting is worse ;P
Lots of good points here, Dexter would likely hold a grudge against Luna for quite some time given how bad she hurt him, Not to mention that if I'm remembering right, He doesn't see Nightmare Moon as a separate being, but a split personality, something the show itself isn't overly clear on either, and given how no one but Dash has seen pinkie be Pinkamania and well ponies don't seem to have much understanding of mental illness and how to treat it ( seemingly having less idea of how to handle it then humans do and frankly THT's scary as we used to think the mentally ill wee demon possessed, now we've advanced ALL the way too, "here take these anti depressants! They'll make you feel better if they work right, though side effect can include increased desire to take your own life!"
Another is how unlikely Dexter would be to give Applejack control of his lab, unless he had some kind of contingency to work around it in mind, He'd DEFINETLY argue against being disarmed, likely to bring up how the changelings tried to abduct him, his doctor think's he's mentally ill, The royal guard is well basically engaging in a man hunt to get him so he can basically be forced to make tech for them under lock and key how does THAT make for a good childhood/ good grown up dexter? As pointed out both changelings and the crown want to abduct him because he invented a device that can diagnose al kinds of medical conditions, yet had the side effect of exposing changelings, something he didn't even know existed at the time.
Quadraplex, would indeed not side with Applejack unless she had some kind of work around, note that while Dexter's own morality is a bit off he scolded her over the whole mess at sugarcube corner given what could have happened to the cake twins. He also called her out for her getting more extreme with the captive changeling, while young and not quite as mature as he'd like to think ( though honestly more mature then most kids his age.) dexter often has to be the one to remind her to not go too morally grey, and as has been pointed out. She sent him to the past with a shipping crate's worth of supplies, most likely dominated by weapons and armor, and apparently stuff she designed and manufactured without his knowing. She doesn't care about anyone but Dexter, possibly to the point of obsession given how she seems to not want him to go home to keep him to herself.
As for Applejack, Yup that seems how she'd act, stubborn, but with good intentions and well if we're honest not wanting to take certain facts into account if they don't fit into how her view of the world works. One only needs to look at Applebuck Seasons to see her stubbornness at work. Now while not unintelligent, Applejack isn't scientifically inclined, meaning that while she wouldn't forbid dexter from working in his lab, as she could see it as harming him given she would figure that his interest in science is so much a part of him it ties into her cutie mark and AJ isn't one to force someone to go against their nature like that. However given how she handled the whole affair with babs seed, doesn't seem to Handle Diamond tiara and silver Spoon well, she IS prone to not giving kids enough credit, or refusing to see the system of trusting adult/ the government doesn't always work. THAT is the bitter pill for her, She respects tradition, and authority and when it breaks down she isn't the type to be leery of it so long as the ones who abused power are gone/ punished/reformed. Though to her credit she DID apologies to twilight after the whole mess with the Royal Wedding AND gave her benefit of the doubt with the whole time Travel thing. Though she was quicker then the rest of the group to exclude Twilight from going into the Everfree when the whole plunder vines mess happened, again she was able to see she was wrong ad admit it but it just kinda shows that's a chink in her armor. Though that's leaving out the fact that we don't know how she'd have reacted if Twilgiht was Applebloom's age in those situations. Though given how Zecora's intro episode went, it doesn't bode well.
Still I think the revised version of this is quite interesting I like seeing how this chapter is developing and I can't wait to read the completed version. Hopefully you're getting feed back that helps here. Also I hope your brother is recovering nicely.
Not the biggest critique of writing, others here have kinda voiced what I was going to say. Otherwise love that you're continuing the story! <3
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I still stand by my views but add the point that Dexter needs someone that could at least run intercept for him from time to time.
I agree with those who said that Dexter should be angrier with Luna at this point. He's still understandably cautious about her, but, like others said, he agreed to apologize to her too easily. At least show some insight to his thoughts, like maybe he winces as he feels his hurt ribs. Speaking of which, have his substantial injuries been treated yet at this point in the story?
I find it interesting that Dexter convinced Applejack that the lab was too dangerous to share with the world by revealing more and more of its secrets. I don't think it's necessarily OOC, it's just something to consider when writing his character – maybe he internally deliberates over how much information to tell her as he's speaking.
And yeah, I don't think Dexter would agree to never shoot someone who is attacking him, after he's already been attacked more than once. As others have pointed out, you can't always run and hide. And I think AJ would at least agree that if Dexter isn't allowed to use weapons even in self-defense, he should have an adult guard him at all times (although I doubt that Dexter would be too happy with this).
4850897
I agree; I'm just of the opinion that Applejack is one of the ponies (and characters overall) that would be nearly at the bottom of my list.
Friggin' heck, Deedee is a better choice than AJ.
4850954
I guess you're right in that regard since AJ can't lie even if her life depends on it.
I also noticed that the scene is a bit dark for the story because of the comedy tag.
4850355
That doesn't reflect AJ in the show, though. She's admitted she's wrong plenty of times and learned from her mistakes.
“You're working too hard and you need help!” - Twilight, “Applebuck Season”
“Yes, Twilight. Yes, please. I could really use your help.” - Applejack, “Applebuck Season”
“But I'm fine! And, actually, this was kind of your fault.” - Apple Bloom, STWOM
“And if Big Mac, Granny Smith and I ever have to be away for the day again . . . I would totally trust you to stay home and take care of things on your own.” - Applejack, STWOM
“Excuse me. You planted your pole on a fault line.” - Maud, “Hearthbreakers”
“I really cracked the corn this time.” - Applejack, “Hearthbreakers”
“Um, are you certain everything you just did is entirely necessary to feed the pigs?” - Rarity, “Applejack's 'Day' Off”
“Thanks, y'all. I guess I just got so used to doin' everything a certain way, I didn't realize there were any problems.”
4851022
That bit is the simplified one. I know she can concede, but as a couple of those examples show, it takes the truth being shoved right into her face before she does; you forgot to include how relieved Twilight was that AJ finally admitted that doing all of that work on her own and skipping sleep was being harmful.
Well, Applebloom being no longer a baby was in a roundabout way, with AJ being forced to realize how far she was pushing Applebloom with her baby-ing her.
4851030
As the last person said, in all of those instances where AJ concedes that she may be in the wrong, the truth almost has to be beaten into her head before she admits she's wrong. And following that logic, she'd end up waiting until Dexter got attacked while disarmed until she admits that he needs to be able to defend himself.
Huh here's an odd thought I had. would Applejack let Dexter go home if he found a way? I mean sure at the moment she thinks that Deedee is abusive, but even if Dexter cleared that up by explaining how most if that was caused by her sneaking into his lab and messing with stuff/ him trying to chase her out before she broke something. I'd doubt she'd changer her mind much, and would likely be annoyed that Dexter never told his own parents of the lab. even using Mandark as an example of why he doesn't share his tech with the world wouldn't help,
Ya know this all kinda explains why Dexter never had long term friends on the show, loose continuity or not.
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Oh that j8st made me realize, how do y'all think Mandark is reacting to Dex being gone? I doubt he's taken over the world yet, but...
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Hey all, thanks for the feed back. I've been reading you're responses despite not replying right away. I'll be re-writing some parts of the scene, but to make sure you guys know your feedback is heard I just want to add a few things that I didn't point out (or point out well enough) about the scene in the above post.
At the point of the above scene, Dexter and Applejack already had an extensive conversation which addressed a number of your concerns. For example, some people found it puzzling Applejack wasn't reacting in the lab with more awe. Applejack does react to the lab with awe, that was just handled in the prior scene and wasn't included in this point. Many of you also thought it wasn't plausible for Dexter to choose to reveal his lab to Applejack, however the circumstances surrounding that decision were detailed in a prior scene as well, and basically included Dexter being backed into a corner where he had to choose between being found out or informing Applejack and getting her to promise to be quiet. (The whole she being able to sense him lying thing playing a major role.) Which is why he used the nuclear option when explaining to her why his lab had to be a secret.
The problem I have for this draft is that conversations between Applejack and Dexter number at about 9000 words in just this draft. I feel, given the events of the last chapter, Dexter and Applejack have to have a conversation - after all he lives with her. This conversation is also effectively the neutralization of her as a threat to his secrets, thus it needs to be done properly. But that means I am trying to condense what would be 7+ hours of talking down to less than 5000 words. I've accepted that I cannot do that and still make sense. If the chapther is 20000 words long, then half of it would be just Dexter and Applejack talking. And as willing as I am to have a 30k or 40k long chapter, everyone complains if its over 20k. That's the problem I have right now, and if you have suggestions I am willing to hear them.
As far as the other concerns go, I understand them as well. Applejack making rules for Dexter seems a bit over the top, both for AJ in making them given that Dexter has been attacked, and for Dexter in accepting them, as he has a need for his weapons, etc. However, I believe the problem here again is the context. In the prior scene, AJ learns all about Dexter's activities, and is pretty certain Dexter not only can keep himself safe, but also knows how to detect and avoid the changelings without having to get into a fight with them. With that in mind, AJ decided to address the issue of Dexter act recklessly, shooting Twilight in the face and attacking the guards; hence the rules. However, I after reading your responses I can see that I have not provided sufficient detail for the context to be understood. Dexter, on the other hand, accepted the rules; but remember Dexter is a rule breaker.
As for Dexter agreeing to apologize to Luna: Why Dexter so readily agreed to apologize to Luna was intentionally left vague at that point, and is actually detailed in a following scene. Remember one thing however, He doesn't have to be willing to forgiven Luna or feel anything other than bitter hatred for her in order to find a logical reason to make the apology - it just wont be genuine.
Thanks again for giving feedback. I am happy to read what you guys have to say. I am hoping to get the next chapter out soon, I apologize for the wait.
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This makes sense and I can understand your reasoning. Dexter's rulebreaking should probably be highlighted to the reader in the scene, maybe in a thought bubble, so that the readers are aware he isn't likely to keep these promises, and maybe make sure they are far more begrudging when he accepts so we can see he isn't happy about this and just rolling over.
I'm glad he doesn't want to genuinely apologize to Luna, as that seems far fetched, but a fake apology is something he would do, solely for appearance sake, especially with Applejack in the know and keeping his secret.
The only thing you didn't address here (though as you said it might be addressed in another blog post) is the computer's willingness to obey Applejack and lock up the weapons, as so far she has shown no regard for the ponies and cares only for Dexter's well being. She could be lying, but it doesn't really seem her style
4852011
I really hope that he tells the ponies what the element said about almost killing luna that seems like something that needs to be said for the good of everyone, I mean they think of the elements as perfect items of harmane butt apparently there more sociopathic then him that's kinda fucked up and I think that needs to be addressed, not necessarily in this chapter but eventually.
4852011
Or doing sensible thing and hiding his tracks.
Saying "If you are interrogating me, I am gonna just run away" and running away is a better option in this case. Applejack as done nothing to earn his trust, especially if she is interrogating him under lie detector. Trust is 2 way street, and If applejack does not trust Dexter, when he is trying to keep her safe, she does not deserve his trust, and he can say that.
Going it's bad option or bad option when there are reasonable, good (or at least better) alternatives that were used before in the show. Dexter has been keeping his lab secret for all his life, and having him be helpless and dependent on diplomacy, instead of clever ruses with hiding stuff behind a hologram, or something is not him.
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If you would like to see a portion of the prior scene, so you can get a better grasp of the context surrounding Dexter's decision to bring Applejack in on his secret lab, then send me a PM. I can send you the scene as well as some contextual pointers explaining why he felt forced to do it. Remember Dexter's character though, he wouldn't do it unless he felt it was absolutely necessary, or had a very very good reason.
Also, remember, Dexter revealed his lab to his family (in an episode I forget the name of) in order to fight a gigantic monster which he accidentally released on a city. So him revealing his secrets to those close to him is not entirely unheard of.
4852011
How do you feel about the criticism on Quadroplex's reaction to AJ and her rules?
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I have something planned for quadraplex, but I am not sure if I am going to keep it in. Of course, you weould get more clues later on when Dexter confronts quadraplex about it - but think about it, within 24 hours she went from willing to attack Luna (using potentially lethal force), and willing to lobotomize Twilight...
to suddenly willing to do what Applejack tells her too...
Any guesses what Quadraplex might have up her sleeve?
4852011
Thanks for the answer.
I still can't see how Dexter at least attacks AJs point of going to the guards or other Ponys, as they have failed spectacular in the past in protecting each other from the changelings. At least this point should be attacked by him.
I can see how AJ can think he can avoid them and how he can accept this as in his skill set.
But how can he make a promise like disarming when he already know he will have to break it? Didn't the elements already told him such white lies wouldn't work anymore? Can't wait to see how he will work around it.
For your length problem. Say it is a two part chapter and upload it with a week or two between the parts. You don't really to tie the chapter up in the middle an can have an actual long conversation that you want.
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It was out of hand life or death situation, and he wiped their memories after that. Not exactly same thing, unless like Discord is rampaging around or something.
Then again we have bit of differing options about the premise. IMO keeping adults out of Dexters lab is a cornerstone of what makes the show what it is.
4852011
That explains things well enough, though it didn't say anything about how Dexter will react to the changelings and Chrysalis.
Also, is Applejack finding out about the lab the start of others finding out as well, eventually leading to scenes like what we find on your story's long summary where Dexter attaches a rocket to Rainbow Dash?
Will there be anything about Celestia confronting Dexter this coming chapter?
I can mostly infer from your response, but is it safe to assume that Dexter won't be finding out about the effect the Nightmare left on his psyche and thus his uncharacteristic(and fairly unfounded) hatred of Luna?
And lastly, concerning your word count, I wouldn't mind in the slightest if your chapter was a 100k words long, so regardless of the length of your chapter, you won't hear any complaints out of me. If you do decide that the chapter needs to be shortened, you could just divide the chapter into two chapters.
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My guess is that she built a body for herself. Applejack said he couldn't use them not her.