Dino Death Match!: Tyrannosaurus vs. Brontosaurus · 11:37pm Feb 7th, 2018
The lost lands, a dumping ground of the past. Random chunks of ages gone by and ended up here, along with what they were carrying. It was possible to walk out of one area that was begot from a Pleistocene scrubwood forest, keep moving for several kilometers, and end up in a Carboniferous swamp. New ecosystems asserted themselves as creatures and plants from myriad of time periods coexisted. This is the result of one such interaction.
Species: Tyrannosaurus rex ("King of Tyrant Lizard")
Clade: Theropod
Height: 3.6 meters at hip (roughly 12 feet)
Length: 12.3 meters (40 feet)
Weight: 7-9 short tons
Armament: Crushing jaws, strong forelimbs, powerful vision and sense of smell, bulky head, robust and yet agile frame
Discovered by Barnum Brown and named by Henry Osborn in 1905, Tyrannosaurus rex is by far one of the most well known dinosaurs of all time as well as one of the largest predators to ever exist. Standing at 12 feet tall at the hip and the length of a schoolbus, T.rex has a venerable slot is one of the most powerful terrestrial predators of all time and is king in the bite.
Sporting keen eyesight, potentially even better than an eagle’s, and an extremely strong sense of smell, once the predator picked up on the trail of potential prey it would be extremely hard pressed to lose it and would most certainly see them before they saw it. Coupled with reasonable ground speed of up to 35-40kmph and a predator’s stealth, an alpha strike is almost guaranteed on a lone herbivore. To dispatch of its prey items in said strike, Tyrannosaurus naturally used its biggest weapon; its head. The skull of the animal was extremely robust and could be used as a battering ram or bludgeoned against rivals, before opening its jaws and going for the kill shot with its teeth. With a bite force that was truly massive (estimates range from 34,000 N to over 100,000 N), the typical kill method was probably to seize the prey by the throat and crush down to either choke it due to a closed windpipe or out right smashed through the bones. This was adapted for by the species sporting very round, wide teeth to withstand the crush force; however this came at the cost of heavy serrations and blunter fangs. Additionally Tyrannosaurus’ massive head necessitated the loss of large arms present in some of its ancestors as a means of reducing weight needed to balance the skull out and avoid being top heavy. While short though, it’s arms were quite strong and could help anchor the Tyrant King down by grasping prey close to itself and line up the killing bite.
The Tyrannosaurus rex also has the benefit of being a late Cretaceous Ceoleurosaur from roughly 80 million years into the future compared to Brontosaurus. This makes it more advanced in some ways than the late Jurassic period Carnosaurs or Megalosaurs its opponent contented with, namely a larger brain and keener senses. This potentially could make Tyrannosaurus a craftier predator than a contemporary to Brontosaurus, such as Torvosaurus. It also has the benefit of being much more robust than the Jurassic superpredators of 80 million years earlier, weighing almost twice as much as the largest predator of that time; Saurophaganax maximus, despite being of comparable length and height.
Advantages:
-Far stronger bite force than most predators
-More advanced senses and brain than the Brontosaurus
-Much heavier and more robust than Jurassic period predators
-Faster and more agile than opponent by a good degree
Disadvantages:
-Less than half the mass of opponent
-Teeth aren’t as sharp as potential predators of Brontosaurus
Species: Brontosaurus excelsus ("Noble Thunder Lizard")
Clade: Sauropod
Height: 6 meters (roughly 20 feet) [all fours], 10-12 meters (35-40 feet) [reared up]
Length: 18-22 meters (60-72 feet)
Weight: 18-22 short tons
Armament: Whip-ended tail, large claws on forelimbs, extremely muscular neck with possible keratin spurs/spikes, muscular and bulky frame
Just as Tyrannosaurus is the archetype of the Theropod, Brontosaurus is the archetype of the Sauropod. Discovered by Othniel Marsh in 1879. While not the largest Sauropod ever by even a long shot, Marsh’s thunder lizard is no slouch and would make the biggest elephant today look tiny.
At equal in length to a large whale, it’s already impressive height of 20 feet on all fours can be bolstered by a shift in stance to double that stature. As a Diplodicoid Sauropod, Brontosaurus has slightly longer and more robust hindlimbs than it did forelimbs, shifting its center of gravity backwards to its hips and allowing it to rear up in a manner akin to a bear and perhaps take a step or two. This could be done to both reach taller trees as well as intimidate or fight a rival. This far back center of gravity also allows great freedom of motion to the creature’s main weapon, its enormous tail. Making up almost half the creature’s length, the tail weighed several tons, was packed with thick sinew, fat, and muscle, and ended in a whip-like end that could break the sound barrier with a thundering crack as easily as it could break and crack bone in a direct hit. Additional weapons could be found up front with a pair of long, curved claws found on the forelimbs; the only claws on those regions. Strong and mounted on the thumb, they were typically used to grip trees when browsing but could certainly stab or rend if weight was put to them. Recently however, it’s been theorized Brontosaurus had one other, very unorthodox trick. It’s the neck.
Extremely robust and supported by heavily reinforced bone and muscle, the neck might make the Brontosaurus’ head look comically small by comparison but it could have used this structure in a manner similar to elephant seals to throw their weight around. And when your neck alone can weigh over two tons at minimum, that’s a lot of weight to put in a downwards smash. Some theorize the thick bone pads on the neck bones might have supported keratin spikes to give the neck an almost saw-like appearance; but this is contested. For the face-off, we’ll give the Brontosaurus more akin to spurs or roughage than full-on spikes to keep things more reasonable and less speculation.
Brontosaurus’ own advantage, despite being 80 million years older than Tyrannosaurus, is sheer size. Aside from a rare Alamosaurus, of whom we have no evidence Tyrannosaurus rex preyed upon, Brontosaurus is up to 7 tons heavier than the largest herbivore Tyrannosaurus rex would have commonly encountered. Additionally, the rarity of Sauropods might make the Brontosaurus an unusual target against the Tyrannosaurus whereas the Jurassic mega-herbivore would be acquainted with large carnivores.
Advantages:
-Over twice the mass of the Tyrannosaurus, much physically stronger
-Taller and longer for better reach with neck and tail
-Vitals more protected on account of sheer mass
Disadvantages:
-Much slower and less agile than opponent
-Less keep senses and advanced brain than the Tyrannosaurus means it can be taken by surprise
-Smaller than the largest herbivore in Tyrannosaurus’ range (Alamosaurus)
===============
Time for a genuine clash of titans, not just literally but in the popular consciousness.
The last roar of the Cretaceous,
In the Lost Lands, an adult female Tyrannosaurus rex near silently stalked through the scrubwood and pine trees on the edge of a clearing; fangs wet with saliva as she eyed up an unfamiliar creature.
against the icon of the Jurassic!
In said clearing leading to a large game trail, a large adult male Brontosaurusexcelsus pushed forward and shoved a tree down with his forepaws, snapping the trunk like a twig and giving him better access to the tenderest ferns growing atop it.
Speed, wit, and jaws,
Her approach didn’t come with a mighty roar or announcement of grandeur, because she was no rookie trying to flush prey out and knowing intimidation might not work on such big game. Instead she sprinted out of cover once she got as close as she could. The Brontosaurus didn’t notice her coming until the Tyrannosaurus had already slammed into him and bit down on his shoulder.
Against sheer brute force!
The Sauropod bellowed in pain and surprise, before swinging his neck around to smack the superpredator across the side and threw her off. The Tyrannosaurus was sent sprawling and rolling across the forest floor in an updraft of fallen leaves and pine needles, but not seriously hurt as she backed up to rise, collect, and regroup. The Brontosaurus, though bleeding from the shoulder, took this time to turn himself around and rear up to his full height. Towering over his foe, the Thunder Lizard let out a long, almost foghorn-like bellow while swaying his neck to rattle the spurs lining its bottom. The She-Rex hissed but didn’t back down, starting to flank towards the side.
The audience poll favored the Tyrant Lizard King, but only slightly-
http://oi65.tinypic.com/2dhzhi0.jpg
Let’s see if that prediction came true!
The Brontosaurus took a step forward and swung out with its good arm, trying to punch, swat, or stab with the limb but the predator was too quick. Weaving around her larger opponent as he was forced to get back down on all fours, the experienced huntress bobbed and weaved to figure her foe out. Seizing a chance, she bit into the Sauropod’s already targeted limb by clamping down on the bicep and even dug her hand claws in for a better purchase as she put on the pressure. The Brontosaurus jerked and bucked to dislodge her, tearing some of his own flesh against the predator’s teeth and talons but he did manage to pry her off and send her back before any potential limb breakage could occur. An enormous, flexible tail swung around after a hip-snap and the tip smacked into the Cretaceous superpredator’s side, the resulting whip crack of thunder masking the sound of several fractured ribs as the shockwave flew through her and sent the Theropod stumbling back.
Shrieking in pain the Tyrannosaurus backed off and gasped for breath, but the Brontosaurus wasn’t keen to give her any room and charged after her. Sheer mass and less mobile limbs however meant he couldn’t catch up to her backpedaling, even with a set of cracked ribs. The Tyrannosaurus mock lunged and nipped at the Sauropod to stall and try and figure out an opening, weaving between trees the Brontosaurus just bulldozed through them. The two were effectively carving a path of destruction through the forest, the air a cornucopia of barks, bellows, and explosive cracking of shattered trees. The injuries previously caused to the Sauropod previously were certainly hurting it, as shown by the blood dripping down its body, but it didn’t seem to do much to slow it down.
As he rammed down another tree with mindless wrath, his opponent was smart enough to remember strategies for different types of game and tried to figure out the best for toppling this prey that could feed her for a week. The Tyrannosaurus wrote off the often chosen targeting of the limbs or shoulders she would use on Hadrosaurids or Ceratopsians to wear them down. The muscle was too dense to bite through and too wide to secure a solid limb break even with a crunch; so she chose another target, one much thinner as to secure a better bite.
Ducking under a swing from the Brontosaurus’ tail that practically deafened her in one ear from the thunder crack it gave off above her, the Tyrannosaurus lunged upwards as the tail hit and snapped a tree in two. Clamping down on the limb as hard as she could about a fourth away from the tip, she ravaged the thinner extremity with the taste of blood in her mouth. It was less sawing into the flesh with her teeth and more just crushing the tendons and bone within it, but the end result was that section of the tail all the way to the tip being torn off. Blood ran free until it could coagulate and the whip-like portion was completely gone. No more deafening crashes for a Brontosaurus with now significantly less reach. Seizing the chance when the Sauropod bellowed out in pain, the Tyrannosaurus targeted the other narrow spot on the creature she could get her jaws around easier. The neck and head. Rushing him while he was on a similar level to herself, the Tyrannosaurus tried to grab onto the head directly but it was yanked up high on reflex and out of reach. Going for option B, she rammed her head into its throat to stun it before clamping down on the massive titan’s throat about a third up the length.
The Brontosaurus gasped and coughed, feeling its windpipe being compressed down and threatening to be crushed. It started to stagger before the Tyrannosaurus yanked down and pulled it further towards the ground… Only for it to start going up. The Tyrannosaurus fought, digging her claws to carve trenches into the ground but unable to get a hold strong enough for counter the immense strength rising up. The Brontosaurus threw himself upwards to rear up on instinct, dragging the Tyrannosaur forward until she smacked against his sternum. The Brontosaurus shoved down as hard as he could, unable to grab or stab the Tyrannosaurus with his thumb claws but when their combined mass of almost thirty tons hit the ground it hit with a boom that echoed for miles.
Dislodged and stunned from getting her back body-slammed into the ground, even if she managed to not get crushed by stomping feet, the Tyrannosaurus rex tried to rise but was rolled onto her back. Her feet swung out and found purchase, digging into flesh and rending it. But six punctures to the collar didn’t stop the enormous shadow from overtaking her. She attacked the throat, now the throat attacked her. Several tons of Sauropod neck came smashing down spur-first in one motion-
CRRRRUUUUNCH!
The Brontosaurus huffed from exhaustion and injuries. They hurt, bleeding down his limbs and shoulders with trickles across his neck spurs, but they were flesh-wounds. He could heal. Limping off away from the corpse, it staggered towards a river to cool itself off after letting out one long, drawn out, horn-like bellow to warn any other potential predators to steer clear.
=============
So why did the Brontosaurus win in the scenario? Simple, sheer bulk. It’s enormous size allows it to absorb more impacts and keep its more vital areas better protected. In a nutshell what this means is that is much easier for the Brontosaurus to hurt the Tyrannosaurus than the other way around. And given that sheer mass would also play a role in muscle power it also means the Brontosaurus was far more physically powerful and only really need to get one or two good hits in to end it. The Tyrannosaurus' unfamiliarity with Sauropods also played into the Brontosaurus' favor as it is drastically different from a majority of the late Cretaceous herbivores that Tyrannosaurus would have preyed upon, whereas Brontosaurus has some familiarity with large Theropods.
Q: But how can a herbivore kill a carnivore if carnivores prey on herbivores?
A: Simple, carnivores prey upon herbivores by either being larger (coyote to a rabbit) or by using numbers (wolf pack on elk) or an ambush (tigers on buffalo). Additionally even large carnivores much preferred to go after old, sick, or young prey species rather than healthy adults. This fight had two adults in their prime. And given the above mentioned conditions, even a first strike by the Tyrannosaurus was not enough as there was almost no way it could kill the Brontosaurus in one blow.
Q: But wouldn't the Tyrannosaurus' crushing jaws kill the Brontosaurus with a neck bite?
A: Probably not, as unless it managed to get the Sauropod around the head or near the end of the neck towards the head, there was simply too much pure muscle and bone to chomp through. It could try to suffocated it, but that would take time and also mean getting very close and sacrificing speed against the much more powerful Brontosaurus without back-up. The Brontosaurus' high height also meant the head and thinner neck would have been extremely hard if not impossible to reach, leaving the Tyrannosaurus to bite down on the far more robust portions and hope for the best.
Q: But if the Tyrannosaurus' bite was a much stronger than the Jurassic predators, shouldn't it have done more damage?
A: Not necessarily. Tyrannosaurus rex has a better bite strength then something like Saurophaganax, but it only got that strength and maintained it by sacrificing thinner, more bladed teeth found in earlier Tyrannosaurids. These same teeth were crucial to whittle away at Sauropods by inflicting horrific bleeding injuries and weakening it over time. Tyrannosaurus' robust, wider teeth just couldn't cut and shred like that. So the Tyrannosaurus rex was stuck with teeth that couldn't slice and dice and a crushing bite with no good areas to bite into. Predators are tailor made to cope with the herbivores native to their area. Sauropods were an extreme rarity in late Cretaceous North America, so naturally Tyrannosaurus rex would be much better suited to killing the prey available to it than something it almost never would see, much less hunt. There is no such thing as an 'ultimate predator', just predators trading off abilities to best suit themselves in the situation they find themselves in.
The Brontosaurus had better defense, comparable offense, and could negate the Tyrannosaurus' speed advantage with sheer size and reach.
Tyrannosaurus felt the thunder, the winner is Brontosaurus excelsus.
Got a prehistoric throw down to suggest? Leave a comment below!
And there's a reason why Sauropods were as large as they were: the bigger the animal, the less of a chance of something wanting to tangle with them.
You know, we could get a Spinosaurus vs Basilosaurus in the future...
Nicely done and researched. You definitely know your dinosaurs, which makes sense given its your forte.
Also if I'm not mistaken I think Pyrus made Miss Cheerilee's kaiju form a Brontosaurus-like kaiju. This just reminded me of that, but it's seriously surprising there's so few sauropod themed kaiju and I think the main ones are all in the Ultra Franchise.
Ironically the advantage of bulk being between the T-Rex and the Brontosaurus's vitals actually was something I brought up in Multiverrse with Junior vs the Death Crawler Alpha: Junior had a healing factor while it didn't, but it was also 20 feet tall compared to his much smaller pony form and thus its vitals were harder to reach, so they were rather balanced in that one was harder to hurt but the other could rapidly heal from damage.
Fantastically done! I'd hoped that the Brontosaurus would win, so I'm glad to have seen the thunder lizard take home the win!
Looks like my hunch paid off. As usual, more than any number of claws and fangs, sheer mass is the ultimate natural weapon.
Maybe next time flip the eras for herbivores and carnivores and do Triceratops vs Allosaures.
Also, I admit, I didn't know Brontosauruses had claws. That's actually an interesting little fact.
Again, while are sauropod based kaiju so rare?
Okay, probably because the suit is way more complicated, but still.
4792006
3.bp.blogspot.com/-jYpfD3tUtnE/T8mRCY7Y-ZI/AAAAAAAAAGE/8u9Yf-7KRNs/s1600/scan0116.jpg
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Well, I always did love to educate! With most Sauropods, the only visible toe on the forefeet were basically thumb claws/spikes.
I blame hard to do effects and because people always assume carnivores are the super badasses whom hunt the docile, gentle, helpless giant
lambsherbivores.4792031
You are a very good teacher. I see why you chose to work at a museum. :)
And true. Technically people have called DesGhidorah a Sauropod, and I can kind of see it, but I see him more as a traditional quadroped dragon as his feet are all wrong.
4792006
BIG claws too
prehistoricstore.com/newitems/m286.jpg
4792038
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Should have expected that, given that given how big they are but geeze. And I thought Megalodons had big pointy things.
Hmm might I suggest... Carcharodontosaurus versus... Tarbosaurus?
EDIT: Also, and I know that you hate when you're asked, but what about that "how many times we nearly died" list? I ask this because me, V, and Dive are already planning for a second run.
4792042
Working on it and I'm gonna have to ask that we take a hiatus before any other run as it was a big time drain and I got a lot of projects backed up I need to do.
4792057
Alright, I understand. Though aside from that, are you gonna keep my next dino throw down suggestion in mind? I think a battle between two offshoots of popular dinos would be interesting.
4792060
Oh it's definitely a possibility! Though if I did it I might shift the genera up just a touch to make it more level as unless the animals have drastically different body types I'd want to have them be of comparable mass. Thus if I used Tyrannosaurus/Tarbosaurus bataar and most reliable data I found put it at in the 4-5 ton range vs. Carcharodontosaurus saharicus' likely 7-8 ton range, I might swap out Shark Tooth for their slightly smaller close cousins Tyrannotitan chubutensis or Acrocanthosaurus atokensis.
The only reason I went with the Bronto to fight the Tyranno is get the ball rolling, the two being iconic, and having drastically different body types.
4792080
Alright, I'd accept either of the two replacements for Carcharo. I'm sure the Shark Tooth will get his chance at the ring someday.
4792082
Again, only possibility if I did that fight (good chance though) and only if the research I found pegged T.bataar as significantly smaller.
4792083
Ohh yeah, I almost forgot about this, but I still remember the commission illustration of Team Mauve Shirts we talked about awhile back?
4792085
Waiting for the commissioner to have open slots.
So, uh... Did you see my suggestion of Basilosaurus fighting Spinosaurus?
If a T-Rex was going to go after a much larger Sauropod, it would probably go after one that was already injured or otherwise not in top condition. Predators are born opportunists, after all.
4791962
Triceratops vs. Allosaurus? Lemme save us all some time: Triceratops would win handily. It wouldn't even be a contest. Triceratops was already fully capable of beating T. Rexes, and Allosaurus was smaller than the Rex. Purely in terms of bulk, Triceratops already has a massive advantage, and that's even before considering the trike's natural weapons and armor.
Ever seen Tarb's blog post on triceratops? It lays out very clearly the reasons why trikey is not to be underestimated.
4792347
It's really not much more one sided then this was
4792365
I'd honestly say that it's even more one-sided. Trikey could critically wound Allo with just a flick of its horns, and Allo would barely be able to scratch trikey's paint job. Rexes were able to hurt and kill trikes due to their powerful crushing bite, but Allosaurs weren't like that. Their teeth were used to inflict slashing wounds to let the prey bleed out. Against trikey's armored hide, that simply would not work.
Trikey would trample and gore Allosaurus to death in very short order, like it would with most any theropod.
4792374
My statement: "It's really not much more one sided then this was"
Your Statement: "I'd honestly say that it's even more one-sided."
You literally just said the same thing as me. I said that my idea was one sided but not much more then this fight was, and you...agreed but phrased it like you were disagreed. Did you miss the "much" in my statement?
4792384
It's a matter of degrees. "Not much", suggests only a marginal increase, as opposed to "even more", which suggests a more substantial increase.
But that's not the point. My point is that Allo vs. Trikey is so absurdly lopsided that it probably wouldn't even be a fight. With Rexy vs. Bronty, the events at least seemed like they would take several minutes, and Rexy left Bronty with several injuries (none of them life-threatening, but still) before Bronty ended it. Allo vs. Trikey could potentially be over in seconds, with Trikey taking little to no damage at all.
4792415
Even more does not not suggest a more substaintial increase, it could mean any amount of increase. Especially since the context you stated it makes it unclear if you are refering to my statement of the the original post by Tarb.
4791962
While potentially interesting, I would think a smaller ceratopsian dinosaur (say, Styracosaurus albertensis) versus a larger Jurassic predator (like Saurophaganax maximus) would be a closer, and more interesting match. After all, with both weighing in at around 3 tons, they should be a very close match indeed.
4792500
The rought idea was a ceratopsian dinosaur vs a Jurassic large predator, I went with the most famous examples for ease of comprehension,
Also note that the original comment was made before Tarb revealed that this pilot was more an exception then the rule for the series.
An honestly intriguing and well orchestrated battle between these two dinosaurs. It was well researched, made sense, and was a really fun read. You do make an excellent point about how not any one type of predator can effectively hunt every type of prey. So I actually like the result.
If I had to make suggestions. I have two in mind right now.
The first is a Utahraptor vs a Short Face Bear
Or a Paraceratherium vs Allosaurus.
4792150
Be interesting, but a bit hard to do considering how good Spinosaurus was in the water is still a bit debatable. Will put on the consideration list though.
4792512
Sorry about that. Shoulda said it earlier ^^;
To be fair Saurophaganax (which is basically Allosaurus on steroids) has estimates up to around 5 tons, which puts it as smaller than, but comparable to some big Tyranosaurids. A fight with a smaller subspecies of Triceratops would put the ceratopsian in the 7-8 ton range, not outlandishly bigger than the carnosaur. It was talking more along the fights of say, Brachiosaurus (50+ tons) vs. Steppe Mammoth (12-13 tons) or a repeat of Bronto vs. T.rex with one opponent doubling the other's mass. And even then I might still do it if I think the bought it still reasonably fair while researching it.
4792867
Well, Spinosaurus could have well-developed swimming skills... But only in the horizontal direction. Besides, Basilosaurus could just attack the Spinosaurus' exposed belly. However, since the theropod lived with giant crocodiles, they could just think that the Basilosaurus is a giant, legless crocodile...
Hey, Tarb! While I still vote for Tarbosaurus fighting a Carnosaur(such as Acrocanthosaurus or Tyrannotitan like you mentioned), I have an additional suggestion that since it's unlikely that Carcharo will fight Tarbo, maybe the Shark Tooth should have a crack at a ceratopsid? In line with Crystal76's suggestion.