Points of Canon: S5x07 - Make New Friends but Keep Discord

Discord episodes are typically low on factoids. This one brings in Tree Hugger, though.

• “I love that story about the time you tried to train your right paw to fetch your left leg!” I sure hope Fluttershy isn’t describing the story she just heard, because that would be super weird.

• “Oh, I do love our Tuesday teas, and I can’t wait for you to meet my friend Tree Hugger. She’s going to love you too.”

  • Ponies have Tuesdays. See RTAC #13.
  • Tuesday tea parties between Discord and Fluttershy are well established.
  • Discord has never met Tree Hugger before, but unfortunately she is not a chronology marker: even though she reappears in Ponyville during On Your Marks, this could have happened both before and after.
  • The way Discord laughs makes me think he got the joke.
• “I met her on a trip to see the Breezies.” Hard chronology lock against Three’s A Crowd.
• “She’s a member of the Equestrian Society for the Preservation of Rare Creatures.” Which is the same Society that Fluttershy has mentioned in the above cited episode. It’s interesting that the Society is empowered to permit or not permit Fluttershy to observe the Breezies, but someone like Tree Hugger, portrayed as perpetually stoned, is a member.
• “We’re all gonna have so much fun together at the Grand Galloping Gala!” This is only the second Gala we ever hear about, and the first one observed is obviously The Best Night Ever.
• “I assumed you’d have your own ticket since you and Princess Celestia are friends now. Were you not invited?” This sort of assumption would require frequent interactions between Celestia and Discord that Fluttershy knew about, which have never been shown on screen. See in particular Hypothesis #4.
• Friendship Castle exists and is another chronology marker. Spike’s room contains, in addition to previously observed (Tanks For The Memories) objects, a vase with flowers, an attempt at still life of said vase, and a few brushes. Which you’re supposed to wash when you’re done with them, Spike.
• “Where’s Twilight?” “Uh, she’s in Canterlot, helping Princess Celestia with the Gala!” So why is Spike is sleeping during the day, instead of doing something more fun?
• The cards Applejack and Rainbow are playing are strange, in that instead of the usual playing cards, which we know ponies have, they contain the Mane 6 cutie marks. What’s up with that?
• “To answer your rather rude question, they’re going as our dates, our plus-ones.” There are no restrictions whatsoever on who might your “and guest” be on a Gala ticket. That said, the tickets in The Ticket Master did not contain such a clause at all.
• “Oh, hi, Discord. Want some cake?” Discord is referencing Metal Gear Solid. In particular, he is referencing the hiding-in-a-box, which is something Snake only started doing with Metal Gear Solid 3, which came out in 2005. Up until the smartphones observed in Discordant Harmony, this was the most recent cultural phenomenon he used. See Hypothesis #3. Correction, hiding in a box has been a thing for much longer, which makes the tweezers from Three’s A Crowd the most recent cultural phenomenon Discord referenced up until the smartphones.
• “Well, I’ll need all my energy when I’m dancing at the Gala, if I decide to go that is.” Discord is seeking to be invited. He is already well aware that coming without being invited won’t be taken well.
• “I was gonna ask my mom, because she’s, you know, my mom, but it turned out she didn’t want to go…” Cloudy Quartz did not want to attend, but I wonder why exactly.
• In the airing order, this is the first look at Discord’s chaos realm, as well as his dwelling. Notice that relatively little changed in the said dwelling between here and Discordant Harmony.
• “Are you ‘Discord or current resident?’ I can’t find any street numbers in this place.” Actually, the question is how did Parcel Post get in. Also, considering that he appears in Discordant Harmony, still there, I wonder whether he got out or not. And if he didn’t, I wonder why didn’t anypony come looking for him.
• “Looks like I’ll see you at the Gala after all, Fluttershy. But I can’t show up alone. She’ll think that she’s my only friend.” There are a lot of things Discord doesn’t tell Fluttershy at this stage, aren’t there?
• “I must say, it’s been very nice having you take over some of the planning responsibilities for this year’s Gala.” Twilight was involved in planning, which is a first.

• “Announcing the spirit of chaos, Discord, and his guest, the, uh… The Smooze!”

  • Notice “spirit of chaos,” but not “and disharmony.”
  • Announcers are on the short list of ponies wearing pants.
• Twinkleshine and Lyra are in the room – and notice that Celestia is greeting the guests, and Twilight is standing right next to her, as if she just participated in this activity…
• For that matter, Lyra is chatting to Lyrica Lilac. I hope they’re talking about poetry, because they both have the lyre cutie mark.
• Discord’s cane has the Symbol of Chaos on it.
• “What are you doing here with… that?!” “Now, now, now. The Smooze may be an ‘it,’ but it’s an it with a heart of, well, blob.” I don’t think anyone in the room have ever seen or heard about the Smooze before. If there ever was a G1 Smooze in the history of Equestria, Celestia did not witness it, seeing her wide open eyes and mouth agape.
• Notice that ponies get over being scared of Smooze very quickly – while the introduction of the Smooze is shocking enough that some ponies faint, in the very next room, nopony seems to care. This was probably unwise.
• “Oh, Fluttershy. I didn’t see you there.” Fluttershy really did not notice Discord bumping into her rump.
• “How did you even know to look for an aura on a waterfall?” Notice that this would imply the auras Tree Hugger is talking about require consciously looking for them, and are not visible to plain sight.
• “Cool! Like, in another life, maybe?” Tree Hugger, and by extension, at least some ponies, believe in reincarnation.
• “I’m centuries old!” Notice, not millennia.
• “Smooze Face, the Smoozinator … well, I mean that’s what we called him back in college. Smooze!” Discord’s claiming that he attended college, and did it with Smooze. I wouldn’t trust him for a moment, if only because I find it very unlikely that this Smooze attended college – but, if anything, it’s evidence that ponies have college, because nopony asks what college is.
• “Oh, I like that! It’s so in rhythm with my life force! Maybe I’ll change it!” Unfortunately we don’t know if ponies can change their names quite as easily from this line: we don’t know if Tree Hugger is intoxicated or not.
• Twinkleshine teleports from inside the room, where she gasps at the appearance of chewed-up Rarity, to the outside, where she is scared by the Smooze. It’s like she is trying to date up two stallions at once without them noticing…
• “I have better things to do than to watch that thing all night.” Where did he even dig it up.
• “You are making me look like a fool in front of Fluttershy. I’ll be back when the Gala is over.” What exactly is this closet full of treasures – at least five crowns, lots of other shiny things – doing there is anybody’s guess.
• “I’ve only got these tiny mismatched wings, and even I can fly better than Twilight Sparkle!” Notice that Celestia laughs at this one.
• “You’re the most basic of jokes.” I’m not sure why is anyone laughing at that, because this is about as bad as Discord’s jokes. But they are.
• The pattern on this child’s sweater looks like a rocket over a star field. See RTAC #9.
• “None of my magic works on this ooze! Can you stop it?” “I’m afraid not!” I’m not sure if Smooze is actually magic-absorbent here or not, but the bubble on Celestia’s horn would imply yes.
• “Ommmm. Ee-ee-ee-ee-ee!” Notice that the Smooze remains in control of every individual piece of slime, or at least, connected to them: As Tree Hugger starts her chant, all of it gets sucked back into the Smooze.
• “That was the most magical thing I’ve ever seen done with animals!” …So is Smooze an animal or a person? The whole episode remains inconclusive.
• “It makes perfect karmic sense why magic doesn’t work on him. He only responds to vibrations that peace out his energy fields.” Tree Hugger is talking out of her rump, but, ponies know the term “karma,” and have or had at some point a belief that such a thing exists.

• “Whoa, dude! What is that?!” A hand/sock puppet dimension exists, possibly as part of Discord’s realm of chaos, and Discord has ready access to it.

  • 1. For suitably small values of “discipline.”

    “What if you had a friend that you could discuss chaos-based magic with?” At least Fluttershy believes that chaos-based magic is a discipline¹ that can be discussed. Discord doesn’t object.

  • Discord does not have anyone he could discuss it with.
• “Um, I need like a few minutes to clear out my chakras before I can hug you from a place of authenticity.” At least some ponies believe they might have chakras. You’d think magical research would be able to conclusively settle if they do…
• “This has been the most fun Gala in years!” Not only Celestia is very pleased with how the Gala turned out, this was more fun for her, than the way the Mane 6 wrecked it in The Best Night Ever.

Probably, the biggest takeaway from this episode is that since it is unlikely that Tree Hugger is unique, somewhere on the Pony Earth, there’s a source of belief in reincarnation, karma and chakras. Whether this source is a pony culture or, say, an elephant culture (remember Spice Up Your Life?) remains uncertain, however.

Oh, and ponies probably don’t smoke cannabis, they can just eat it.

Chronologically, I have just noticed that we can never actually see the rumps of the CMC in this episode, which means that it has no upper bound all the way up until Discordant Harmony. Even that, it only has because of Parcel Post: even if we don’t assume that Parcel Post is still floating in the chaos realm, and just came back for another delivery, this episode is definitely his first visit there. At the same time, I did not previously mark the existence of the Friendship Castle as a lower bound.

Comments

[Mitch H]

Tree Hugger shows up in "On Your Marks", but as you say, there's no sign to indicate that it's before or after Discord's become aware of her existence. Hmm. There's no real way to keep this from sliding past "What About Discord?"

[Oliver]

4742682

Nope, none that I see.

[Sketcha-Holic]

“I have better things to do than to watch that thing all night.” Where did he even dig it up.

From his nose.

[Oliver]

4742806

Well, that's one way to attend college with it, alright.

[Impossible Numbers]

A few thoughts:

• “I’m centuries old!” Notice, not millennia.

  I'm not saying it's wrong, necessarily, but since his age has got to be at least a millennium plus, this seems like an odd and sloppy bit of dialogue. (Admittedly, I'm biased by my preference for the idea he actually is millennia old).

• Also, Discord describes the Smooze as his "oldest, bestest friend", even though the whole point of his relationship with Fluttershy is that she woke him up to the power of friendship. Allowing that Discord is talking through his hat here anyway, this seems like another bit of sloppy dialogue that doesn't sit well with canon. (Fluttershy buys into it, for one thing). So the "centuries old" thing seems even more suspect, especially since he spent at least ten of them trapped in stone.
• However, taking it at face value, Discord has spent the majority of his life trapped in stone. Good grief.
• The Smooze basically acts like any other (possibly magically augmented) sapient animal (e.g. Harry and Angel, minus the self-control), plus the weird biology that doesn't seem out of place next to most Equestrian species (eating gemstones, responding to "music", having detachable parts). I'd say "animal in the context of Equestria" seems about right, though personally I don't rule out Discord pulling him from another universe or from the chaos realm. Besides, Tree Hugger describes Discord as one of many "creatures" she's encountered, so it's probably a loose category.
• As for the timeline, is it possible this episode is spread out over a long timespan, especially between the prologue and Discord's search for someone with a ticket? Back in Season One, the tickets arrived early on for Rarity to make new dresses and for one or two other episodes to occur. And while here Discord worries about getting his "plus-one" on such short notice, this seems to be purely because of the post pony getting lost for who-knows-how-long.
• Minor note: Fluttershy describes Tree Hugger as "funny" at least twice, though we never learn what exactly is supposed to be funny. Is Tree Hugger an offscreen comedian, or is Fluttershy kinda amused by her friend's eastern-inspired beliefs? Really am wondering now, especially since Discord also mocks Tree Hugger for her beliefs. And the second time Fluttershy describes Tree Hugger as "funny", it inspires Discord to try a full comedy routine.
• Also, there are explicitly different types of humour and comedian in Equestria (not a big world-building note, but still). DIscord explicitly mentions "observational humour". And he shares a performance problem with Pinkie (as seen in Baby Cakes): deliberately trying a comedy routine instantly makes their humour fall flat.
• According to the MLP wikia transcript, the muffled part of Discord's routine (I think while the one kid first notices the Smooze trying to burst out of the cupboard) contains this: "You might be a Ponyville pony when an ordinary night on the town ends in a lesson about friendship!" Can't fault his observation, even if his humour comes up short.
• Is it really a good idea to laugh at the "most basic of jokes" reformed evil spirit of chaos? Even if he's much less likely now to relapse, he's perfectly capable of being vindictive in creative and unpleasant ways.
• "It's a lovely dimension! White sand beaches, attentive wait staff... I mean, okay, the humidity isn't great, but where isn't that the case these days?" Assuming Discord isn't making stuff up again, we've got an idea of what one other dimension is like.
• "Well, friends! I think I may actually grow to like this multiple-friend thing." His initial manner of addressing them aside, Discord having to grow to like multiple friends suggests he does not (fully) count the rest of the Main Six as friends by this point. Is this timeline relevant (after the Tirek incident, it seems odd he'd not consider Twilight one, at least)?

[QueenMoriarty]

I’m not sure why is anyone laughing at that, because this is about as bad as Discord’s jokes. But they are.

Simple: they don't want to laugh at Discord.

[schpeelah]

“You’re the most basic of jokes.” I’m not sure why is anyone laughing at that, because this is about as bad as Discord’s jokes. But they are.

Well, I found it funny due to timing and sheer audacity.

“That was the most magical thing I’ve ever seen done with animals!” …So is Smooze an animal or a person? The whole episode remains inconclusive.

It doesn't speak Ponyish, that'd normally classify him as an animal I believe.

“What if you had a friend that you could discuss chaos-based magic with?” At least Fluttershy believes that chaos-based magic is a discipline1 that can be discussed. Discord doesn’t object.

I felt this phrase also indirectly implied that there's some discipline of magic that Fluttershy and Tree Hugger discuss. Like nature magic.

[Oliver]

4742828

As for the timeline, is it possible this episode is spread out over a long timespan, especially between the prologue and Discord’s search for someone with a ticket?

Quite possible, and even likely, for the reasons you described, but does not change anything essential, since the only solid upper bound I could identify is all the way up in Season 7…

We can, of course, argue that we can observe this or that evidence of character development sticking, and put up some reasoning based on that, but people can argue about that sort of thing for ages. :)

Is Tree Hugger an offscreen comedian, or is Fluttershy kinda amused by her friend’s eastern-inspired beliefs?

I’m voting for the latter, if only because that is the one thing I find funny about her.

Can’t fault his observation, even if his humour comes up short.

It’s barely audible, but yes, it’s there. Unfortunately it isn’t funny, it’s just true. :)

His initial manner of addressing them aside, Discord having to grow to like multiple friends suggests he does not (fully) count the rest of the Main Six as friends by this point. Is this timeline relevant (after the Tirek incident, it seems odd he’d not consider Twilight one, at least)?

Relevant, but I’m not sure it constitutes a lock: People can argue about character development essentially forever. Compare, for example, Fluttershy, who had to learn the same lesson repeatedly. There was that lovely theory that put Putting Your Hoof Down before the start of the series, precisely on those grounds. I liked it, and everyone kept arguing about it.

Then I finally found a hard lock that prevented it. :)

[howard035]

What a great episode.

It’s interesting that the Society is empowered to permit or not permit Fluttershy to observe the Breezies, but someone like Tree Hugger, portrayed as perpetually stoned, is a member.

This is a good point. I would suggest she's let on because 1)They're all a bunch of hippies too, just more sober ones. 2)Tree Hugger's creature -pacification powers seem to be even stronger than Fluttershy's stare. 3)She probably bakes the brownies for each meeting.

This sort of assumption would require frequent interactions between Celestia and Discord that Fluttershy knew about, which have never been shown on screen. See in particular Hypothesis #4.

Very true.

Actually, the question is how did Parcel Post get in. Also, considering that he appears in Discordant Harmony, still there, I wonder whether he got out or not. And if he didn’t, I wonder why didn’t anypony come looking for him.

A thorny question, especially if we think he was trapped and nobody came looking for him. First to repeat my theory that in Equestria, postal service is more like a series of non-government individual couriers than a single business. This explains the divergent uniforms. Ponies are able to function with such a disorganized system of mail because most postal ponies have cutie mark magic that helps guarantee accurate delivery. This guy is a courier Canterlot hired to hand out invites, but he doesn't have a boss who should be looking for him.

Second, how did he get in? That's a really tough one. If Twilight or Celestia built a portal for Discord's mail, they would notice if a mail pony went in and never came out. My theory is: There are some naturally occurring temporary portals between the Chaos dimension and Equestria, probably in the Everfree forest. This pony's cutie mark magic gives him magical GPS he always follows, so he followed his cutie mark into the forest, to a portal it was guiding him to. Even a cutie mark can't help a pony navigate the chaos dimension, so he just drifted there until Discord found him (and since then).

There are a lot of things Discord doesn’t tell Fluttershy at this stage, aren’t there?

Remove "at this stage" and I agree 100%.

 If there ever was a G1 Smooze in the history of Equestria, Celestia did not witness it, seeing her wide open eyes and mouth agape.

Interesting. Are you sure that's surprise that the Smooze exists, rather than that it's still alive? (I think it was destroyed at the end of the movie). I can't remember her facial expression.

• “I’m centuries old!” Notice, not millennia.

Isn't it established that Discord feels embarrassed about how old he is? I could have sworn there's a time when he complains about being excluded by Fluttershy over being old, but now I can't remember if that was an episode or a fanfic.

if anything, it’s evidence that ponies have college, because nopony asks what college is.

We have that from Maud Pie, but this does get us the word. And presumably that's not the only college in Equestria if the word is generally known.

we don’t know if Tree Hugger is intoxicated or not.

Of course we do Oliver! We just don't know what she's intoxicated with right now.

It’s like she is trying to date up two stallions at once without them noticing

She's really Lemonheartsing it up!

I’m not sure why is anyone laughing at that, because this is about as bad as Discord’s jokes. But they are.

Deadpan delivery = funny apparently, see Daria.

I’m not sure if Smooze is actually magic-absorbent here or not, but the bubble on Celestia’s horn would imply yes.

I hope it is. It's bad enough that Celly has been beaten by two different types of vines, being beaten by regular slime would be humiliating.

Here's a thought: I've said before that Discord is a lot like C'thulhu or another Great Old One if they were toned down for a TV-Y7 rating. Couldn't the same be said for the Smooze and a Shoggoth?

So is Smooze an animal or a person? The whole episode remains inconclusive.

He gets to wear a tie and hat, so he's at least as much a person as Spider Pig.

 A hand/sock puppet dimension exists, possibly as part of Discord’s realm of chaos, and Discord has ready access to it.

The difference between live-action and animated is strong I find it difficult to believe the sock puppet dimension is the same dimension as the chaos dimension. That said, Pinkie Pie and Cheese Sandwich can access it somehow...

Whether this source is a pony culture or, say, an elephant culture (remember Spice Up Your Life?) remains uncertain, however.

I would tie Tree Hugger fairly closely to the commune Rarity visited in the comics, and call that a subculture that Fluttershy is at least tangentially a part of.

Chronologically, I have just noticed that we can never actually see the rumps of the CMC in this episode, which means that it has no upper bound all the way up until Discordant Harmony.

I think as a soft-lock in general we should try to keep the Discord episodes in order, mostly because he seems to exhibit small but noticeable behavioral improvements each time.

Also, Fluttershy forgot this rule:
img.picturequotes.com/2/203/202990/never-go-with-a-hippie-to-a-second-location-quote-1.jpg

[Oliver]

4743196

A thorny question, especially if we think he was trapped and nobody came looking for him.

I think it’s more sensible to think he came again. That still leaves the entire question of how he gets in unresolved. Randomly occurring natural portals are an option, like you said…

I can’t remember her facial expression.

Wide-eyed, mouth agape… If it’s surprise at it being alive, I expect the expression would be different.

I could have sworn there’s a time when he complains about being excluded by Fluttershy over being old, but now I can’t remember if that was an episode or a fanfic.

I don’t think I remember any episodes where he would say something to that effect.

We just don’t know what she’s intoxicated with right now.

Point…

Deadpan delivery = funny apparently, see Daria.

Daria is funny because sarcasm. This, unfortunately, wasn’t sarcasm. Even though we know Maud can do sarcasm.

I’ve said before that Discord is a lot like C’thulhu or another Great Old One if they were toned down for a TV-Y7 rating. Couldn’t the same be said for the Smooze and a Shoggoth?

You’re not the first to suggest that, but there is no sign of a clear connection between them.

I would tie Tree Hugger fairly closely to the commune Rarity visited in the comics, and call that a subculture that Fluttershy is at least tangentially a part of.

Pony subculture of elephantine origins, possibly.

[howard035]

4743505

I think it’s more sensible to think he came again. That still leaves the entire question of how he gets in unresolved. Randomly occurring natural portals are an option, like you said…

If that's the case, then perhaps Celestia put up an entrance to the chaos dimension so he could get mail.

Daria is funny because sarcasm. 

Honestly, every episode of that I ever watched made me feel like the shrill cheerleaders and Daria's sister seemed so much happier and more well-adjusted than Daria or her friends ever did. I feel like Daria's dad was an interesting character that probably inspired Jerry on Rick and Morty too.

Pony subculture of elephantine origins, possibly.

That's probably how the band Pinkie ran into during Party Pooped recorded "On the Road to Marekesh."

[Oliver]

4743765

Honestly, every episode of that I ever watched made me feel like the shrill cheerleaders and Daria’s sister seemed so much happier and more well-adjusted than Daria or her friends ever did.

They are. That’s the point. :)