• Member Since 14th Jan, 2012
  • offline last seen 1 hour ago

MrNumbers


A man with a fork in a world of soup

More Blog Posts273

  • Wednesday
    The Boy Who Cried Wolf

    The first day the boy cried “wolf!”, and so the villagers ran to him. He laughed, and they left. He laughed because they had not seen the yellow eyes in the woods they'd scared away.

    The second day the boy cried “wolf!”, and so they people ran to him. He laughed, and they left. He laughed because they had not seen the long prowling shape that had crept away when the villagers came.

    Read More

    28 comments · 638 views
  • 6 days
    Rollercoaster

    Derpibooru came out against hate speech and Nazi posting. There was an uproar - one former mod compared banning Nazi art to... Cromwell? So they reversed the decision.

    But in publicly reversing the decision;

    Read More

    123 comments · 1,578 views
  • 2 weeks
    How I write cops

    This is me trying to get some thoughts in order, based on a lot of things at once. Normally this would be a Wholesome Rage piece, but too much of it has happened on this site to separate it from that context.

    Read More

    74 comments · 871 views
  • 4 weeks
    Positivity

    Just a followup to the last one, in much more positive terms.

    Read More

    29 comments · 916 views
  • 5 weeks
    Doesn't feel worth it anymore

    This one's the big downer. I want to talk about why I don't write for this community anymore, even though I used to love it and have so much fun being a part of it. I haven't written a word of fimfic since December, and I don't think that's going to change. And that sucks for me too.

    Read More

    112 comments · 1,953 views
Nov
7th
2017

WWBP: MrNumbers gets political and shit. Bitch Eating Crackers Syndrome. · 6:20pm Nov 7th, 2017

Hey.

I'm Australian, so I guess I don't have much of a right to talk about American politics. But where you lead, we follow -- I'll get back to this at the end. We're the international equivalent of adoring fanboys. Well, we were, right up until about 2004. Something special and precious was lost when we watched you re-elect George W Bush.

Boy, glad nothing that stupid happened again, right?

Now, I've previously identified as a centrist here, and claimed SJWs annoyed me. Revolutionary thoughts I know. Previously, though, it was because I was under the impression that it was disproportionate force and pushback would be a problem and all this shit I've said before.

I think that contributed to part of the current situation. But what the last year has shown me, with fascism becoming vogue in France, Australia, England and the US... you know, the fucking Allies, is different. I'd seen someone pointing at a log and screaming about bugs and it pissed me off because it's like sure there's a big-ass spider on it but there's more log than spider, you're currently bugging me more than the bug is.

The last two years have rather been like someone lifting the log in front of me for the first time, and I'm seeing what's always been there under the damp, rotting wood, and I see what the screaming was actually about. And I'd never really bothered lifting the log because that was effort, and the conviction that there was never really going to be anything under there.

Meter long fucking centipedes and brown snakes and funnel webs and all that shit, turns out.

I've got people I'd previously have considered 'sane' identifying openly as Nazis. They go to rallies and knowing Antifa will show up to throw the first punch, so they can make them look bad and be the heroes when they win the fight. They are very proud about how clever this is. This is Australia, too, which Return of Kings identified as too 'cucked' to be safe to openly meet here just two years ago.

The Daily Mail's political cartoons at the moment harken back to The Eternal Jew:

But then again, they're just being historically consistent:

I keep hearing "Both sides are basically the same", or just as bad as each other. I keep seeing this obsession with false equivalence.

In my Discord server the same person will criticize the left for just being "Tumblr activists", then turn around and say they're active extremists within the same hour. Both can be legitimate criticisms, but somehow they both apply to the entire side, simultaneously. It's Bitch-Eating-Crackers syndrome. The idea of liberals is now so fucking tainted that doing nothing is offensive, doing something is offensive, existing is offensive.

You know that whole footballers kneeling protest? I looked into it, and there's a Supreme Court ruling on it (West Virginia v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624) from 1943, pinnacle of wartime USA. I'm going to quote it here, because it is the most beautiful legal poetry I've ever seen.

The case is made difficult not because the principles of its decision are obscure but because the flag involved is our own. Nevertheless, we apply the limitations of the Constitution with no fear that freedom to be intellectually and spiritually diverse or even contrary will disintegrate the social organization. To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous instead of a compulsory routine is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds. We can have intellectual individualism and the rich cultural diversities that we owe to exceptional minds only at the price of occasional eccentricity and abnormal attitudes. When they are so harmless to others or to the State as those we deal with here, the price is not too great. But freedom to differ is not limited to things that do not matter much. That would be a mere shadow of freedom. The test of its substance is the right to differ as to things that touch the heart of the existing order.

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.

I found this so beautiful, I posted the first bolded bit on my Facebook wall - I more do that to keep a timeline of my thoughts, rather than because of any genuine intent to share it. Still! I got a comment within fifteen minutes from a kindly older gentleman I'd graduated film school with:

Shut the Hell Up. Thousands upon thousands of hero's died for that Anthem and that Flag. Don't dishonor them. If you can't stand for 3 lousy minutes and place your hand over your heart and remember what they did for us ... then Get the Hell Out of Our Country.

Christ.

By the way? Oath of Enlistment:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Before you go dragging veterans into your moral impetus over what the Supreme Court has ruled unconstitutional. This is just a general rule of thumb, by the way, because it seems to happen a lot. Interestingly, I've noticed, the same people most determined to honour veterans are the ones quickest to say racial atrocities -- even extremely recent ones like the Stolen Generation which occurred as yesterday as the 1970s -- are best left in the past, a resolved issue.

It's a thing to watch out for with the civil war statue protests going on; History needs to be remembered, but only the bits you're proud of.

Nationalism is a hell of a drug.

My brother is an open supporter of Milo Yiannopoulos because he speaks 'common sense'. Milo is openly a fucking Nazi.

No, like, openly a fucking Nazi.

Here's a fantastic article about how the alt-right is a fascist movement. Breitbart, especially Steve Bannon, did do a lot of work sugarcoating it to make it a more appetizing pill to swallow, but both are neo-Nazis. Buzzfeed got leaked a bunch of their internal emails of them bragging about their 'killing machine'. War machine not edgy enough I suppose.

Breitbart is the leading source of news for the most Jewish family I know, at the moment, and the eldest son is a man I'm proud to know and have collaborated with in the past, an incredibly bright and brilliant comedic mind. Gung-ho alt-right affiliations.

Christ.

Trump ran his campaign with Paul Manafort and Roger Stone, of Black, Manafort, Stone and Kelly, men who pioneered modern dark lobbying. Stone was directly involved in Watergate as one of Nixon’s “Dirty Tricksters” and is proud of his actions; he has Nixon tattooed between his shoulderblades.

These guys right here

Black, Manafort, Stone and Kelly were also known as “The Torturers Lobby” for their propensity to get their former campaign clients to vote on government aid for foreign dictators that hired the firm. Like, the real bloody ones.

Roger Stone is also responsible for leading and inciting the riots that stopped the Florida recount of Gore’s votes, and to get Fox to report the recount in Bush’s favour in 2000. Did you know about that? Yeah they simply just stopped counting the votes, Fox yelled Bush won, every other station followed Fox's lead so as not to be left out, and the counters were so scared for their lives they just ran with it to get safely out of the building.

Explaining this image:


Is this article

But that chart's not nearly as scary to me as this one.

Why did I write this? Because I want to make it clear that by not picking a side, you're picking a side. By choosing nothing, you're choosing to let more motivated people win. And one side's motivation is fascism. Hitler took power with a minority government. People are becoming so disenfranchised with the idea of democracy that 'feudalism' is becoming an appealing political movement - the want for a strong, competent king. For a benevolent dictator.

Bitch Eating Crackers syndrome is an important crux to this. There's this drive for equivalency, as seeing this being two sides of an issue, so the left have to be as bad as the right. That there's truth in the middle ground, in finding compromise. That there has to be parity.

That's not true. One side can be actual fucking monsters. The left's acting irrationally? Maybe, just fucking maybe, it's a reasonable reaction to an unreasonable opponent, an opponent that thrives on the existence of conflict, not from the rightness of it.

Fascism flourishes from the existence of the contest. It's not about winning, it's that the fight is occurring. It's about proving there is an opponent, and that you are needed in their war. It does not need to fight to win; it wins by fighting.

We know this enemy. We've seen it before. And I urge you, no matter how much "SJW bullshit" has pissed you off in the past, to understand these are not equivalent. One side might be naive or obnoxious, but the other is actual fucking monsters.

The 'political correctness' label is a weapon of propoganda, always has been. It can be annoying as fuck when you see it enforced with your own eyes, it can be implemented badly, and you can hate it when you see it for good reason. I've spoken plainly on the matter before. But understand that people use those elements of legitimate hatred as a leverage, as the element of truth in half-truths; Russia just stated that the current crackdown on sexual assault in Hollywood is 'political correctness gone wrong, a sign of sexual repression', for instance. Shooting Nazis in Wolfenstein and CoD: WW2 is now "SJW politicized bullshit". Having morals or ethics different to theirs is just "virtue signalling".

It is a tool and a weapon to make you associate minorities with inferiority -- Implying they wouldn't have to fight for 'equality' if they were actually equal -- and to accuse anyone who'd have any notion of helping them at an institutional level as dishonest, as inauthentic or artificial. As just playing politics to get people to like them. To reinforce the idea that there's no one really believes in it they just want to look good for saying it, that it's a sign of immaturity, that they'll grow out of it -- see also "college liberal".

And the propoganda war is real. Did you know that American alt-right billionaires conducted military grade propoganda and psychological warfare on the British voting public to influence the Brexit vote? That's not a fucking conspiracy theory, that's a documented investigative report from the fucking Guardian.

Here's a fun quote:

This is not just a story about social psychology and data analytics. It has to be understood in terms of a military contractor using military strategies on a civilian population. Us. David Miller, a professor of sociology at Bath University and an authority in psyops and propaganda, says it is “an extraordinary scandal that this should be anywhere near a democracy. It should be clear to voters where information is coming from, and if it’s not transparent or open where it’s coming from, it raises the question of whether we are actually living in a democracy or not.”

You see Antifa throw a brick? Odds are high it's a trans person throwing a brick at someone advocating for their genocide. And the person that brick is aimed at is currently gaining more ground in the court of public opinion, globally. They say cutting a man's tongue out does not prove him a liar, just that you fear what he has to say? Motherfucker, I am terrified of it.

Have some final remarks from very passionate Reddit comments because they're actually better written than I'd aggregate from the same data.

Join our Patreon to remove these adverts!
Comments ( 277 )
SPark #1 · Nov 7th, 2017 · · ·

Oh boy. Here comes a comments section where I'll get to find a bunch more Nazis to block, probably. Good luck with that!

Couldn't agree with you more about this, btw. Except that since I'm (gasp! shock! how dare I!) genderqueer I've been one of the feared and dreaded SJWs all along. (Oh noes! I'm going around not fully conforming to gender norms. Somebody with boobs in a suit, watch out! My wild, dangerous, extremist, fringe-left view that my personal life is nobody's fucking business and if I want to be called "he" sometimes it'd be nice if at least some people obliged is destroying America!)

56
56 #2 · Nov 7th, 2017 · · 19 ·

Thanks for sharing, although I do respectfully disagree with much of your post. I don't have time to respond in detail but I do want to correct one point of fact: Yiannopoulos is not an open Nazi, and wearing an iron cross did not make him one. Tons of people at my high school wore than symbol. It's a symbol used by the modern german military, where it is illegal to be a Nazi. You have to understand that this guy is a professional outrage cultivator, his lively hood is based on people incorrectly viewing him as a Nazi.

Interesting thing to spot on my way out to vote.

Since we still can't upthumb posts, I'll leave a comment.

han-solo-it's-true-all-of-it.gif

Hope you don't have a shitty time with the comments.

I'm bookmarking this. There are links and I lack the time to check them right now.

Watch out dude you might get called a cuck by some alt-righters

All we have to do is not start World War III before humanity figures out how to colonize other planets. Then all the sane people can just leave and form an actual, progressive democracy on Europa, or wherever. Because that would be way easier than actually trying to convince any of these republicans that their views are morally bankrupt and infantile.

Jordanis #8 · Nov 7th, 2017 · · 2 ·

4719565

Context, context, context. In Germany, the Iron Cross has been a national symbol since long before Nazis, and its history is stronger than that association. Just like in India, the history of the swastika itself is stronger than its association with Nazis.

In the US, it doesn't have that history. It's used as a proxy by people who want to be able to deny they are Nazis, but still show off their affiliation to others who know the symbol--a 'dog whistle'. Either the man is a Nazi, he wants actual Nazis to think he's their friend, he wants anti-Nazis to think he's friends with Nazis, or he somehow doesn't know what the cross means despite the circles he runs in. Them's the options. I don't believe the last, and the only decent response to the others is to stay as far away as possible from him.

4719574

he wants anti-Nazis to think he's friends with Nazis

He's a professional troll. He wants people to react to him, so he does whatever will get them to react. A good, small example: He converted to Catholicism purely to annoy his jewish mother. He used to shit on gamers all the time, until he realised he could get more attention by attaching himself to gamergate taking their "side". He likes to point quite regularly - to left and right - that he bottoms big black guys.

Milo isn't a nazi. A lot of the people who like him might be, but he isn't. The moment he knows it'll get a more entertaining reaction to piss off those people, he'll don a ustasha and start frog-marching around the kremlin, or become an ultra-progressive rabbi, or something else like that.

4719575
I think that doesn't change the conclusion much, if at all.

the only decent response to the others is to stay as far away as possible from him.

4719575

I suggest that there is a point where the distinction between 'Nazi' and 'so lacking in any kind of moral scruples whatsoever that he will pander to Nazis for years for lols' ceases to matter, and that he is well past that point.

56
56 #12 · Nov 7th, 2017 · · 6 ·

4719574
You missed the point I brought up in my post - the possibility that he knows exactly what in means in both Germany and the US, and wears it not because he's a Nazi but because he wants his opponents to think he is. Then they play right into his hands by staging bigger and bigger protests, granting him more positive MSM coverage (when your opponents are smashing unrelated businesses and setting fires in the street any coverage is positive) and in general bolstering his career.

He may in fact be a Nazi, it's impossible to know for sure what someone is really thinking after all, but the "dog whistle" argument is meritless, because it's just as likely that anti-Nazis are the dog.

[Note: not American]

"The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more. No less." Nazis can die in a fire, and iustitia socialis delenda est.

That said, whichever side is calling for anything short of unrestricted freedom of speech for any reason can go :yay: themselves. That's my terminal value. Whichever side supports it gets my support. (Hint: neither side supports it.) I want to hear people's idiocy, so I can avoid them.

You see Antifa throw a brick? Odds are high it's a trans person throwing a brick at someone advocating for their genocide.

One of the key pillars of civilized society is "the government has the legal monopoly on the use of force". Reacting to speech with violence is corrosive to society. Genocide is already illegal. Incitement to violence is illegal. Use the proper channels that civilization provides, not bricks.

4719578
Of course. Anything else would be feeding the troll.

4719582
This is exactly what /pol/'s "IT'S OKAY TO BE WHITE" poster campaign did. White supremacists think it's supporting them, and make asses of themselves. Anti-white racists think it's white supremacism, and make asses of themselves. Normal people look at the posters, shrug, then look at the dancing monkeys on both sides and say "what the fuck is WRONG with you?!"

SPark #16 · Nov 7th, 2017 · · 1 ·

4719585

Use the proper channels that civilization provides, not bricks.

What do you do when those channels don't exist, have been broken, or are so completely infested by the other side that attempting to use them gets you laughed at and told to go away?

4719592
Leave Somalia, and move to any of the countries referenced above, where they still exist and (mostly) function.

SPark #18 · Nov 7th, 2017 · · 1 ·

4719598
And this is how I know you're definitely not transgender.

(And also, have you ever moved internationally? "Leave the country" is a shit solution. It's not a solution. But I know you only said it to amusingly imply that no developed nation could possibly have a broken justice system. Which if you know anything about the USA's justice system is absolutely laughable. So I guess it's amusing, but not in the way that you meant it to be.)

4719564
since coming out as trans I've slowly discovered that even people who say they're okay with you are mostly okay only if you don't actively express the opinion that the world is unjust and fucked up. And if you do say that, god forbid you advocate any response wilder than "yell at legislators, hope they pay attention to you and that the public is just on your side despite years of that not being the case."


4719585

That said, whichever side is calling for anything short of unrestricted freedom of speech for any reason can go :yay: themselves. That's my terminal value. Whichever side supports it gets my support. (Hint: neither side supports it.) I want to hear people's idiocy, so I can avoid them.

You can say whatever you want. But if you lie, preach fascism, and advocate my death for the sake of an imagined nation, then I'm going to spend all of my time calling out and arguing that nobody serious should give you access to their platform.

Also when a horde of nazis and nazi sympathizers march through your town screaming "blood and soil" with weapons in hand it's at this point that I feel like the discussion has moved beyond free speech and into "can we all just acknowledge that this happened and it's fucked up and should not happen again."
4719598

oh child.

4719575

What's the difference between a tory boy who pretends to be a nazi 24/7 for the better part of a decade, and a tory boy who is an actual nazi?

Anyway, I'm glad when center-leaning people say stuff like that. Not because it's true - I think it's a load of bollocks that even the OG nazis, with their silly walks and obviously outlandish remarks, used to give themselves a thin sheen of plausible deniability.

I'm glad because it makes left-leaning people quickly realize that there is literally no point to hearing these people out, because 'reasonable people' will lap up nazi excuses like so much antifreeze. People are starting to realize that the only way to deal with the Milos and Spencers is to block them out of society and beat the piss out of them if they make it through.

To paraphrase the man who literally wrote the book on being a Nazi, the only thing that'll stop them is overwhelming force when they're just doing it for the memes.

4719599
I'm sorry, which of "France, Australia, England and the US" allows genocide ("the deliberate killing of a large group of people") of transgender people, or public incitement of violence against them? Which government entity would laugh and tell you to go away if you reported same?

As for leaving the country, most Western nations will grant refugee status to anyone under threat of genocide, and will even spend the host country's money to resettle them there.

I stood up and applauded this blog post in my empty room it was so good.

4719601

You can say whatever you want. But if you lie, preach fascism, and advocate my death for the sake of an imagined nation, then I'm going to spend all of my time calling out and arguing that nobody serious should give you access to their platform.

Agreed, except for calling for deplatforming for anyone not inciting violence. Let the idiots be heard, but enforce the laws. When they start calling for violence, take them before a judge.

Also when a horde of nazis and nazi sympathizers march through your town screaming "blood and soil" with weapons in hand it's at this point that I feel like the discussion has moved beyond free speech and into "can we all just acknowledge that this happened and it's fucked up and should not happen again."

If they start threatening to use those weapons, I'll support ordering in the police, the National Guard, or whatever level of force is legally justified. Until then, let them continue to make fools of themselves. The best argument against Nazis are made by those very Nazis; they just don't realize it until it winds up on the news. (Seriously, what the hell did those tiki-torch morons think they were going to look like?!)

4719603
I'm sorry mate are you that fucking anal about word choice or are you deliberately concern trolling.

Organized genocide of trans people isn't a thing in the US. It doesn't organize here, the people in power just refuse to extend legal protections to keep us safe from people who are quite happy to beat us to death, kick us into the street, or deny us opportunity without the threat of reprisal. When the government actively is in the process of pivoting away from seeing trans people as people guaranteed of basic rights, there can be no argument that we are not in danger.

(Inb4 you then respond with an argument that we're totally not in danger.)

SPark #26 · Nov 7th, 2017 · · 1 ·

4719603
:facehoof: It doesn't matter if "genocide" is banned, if individual murder against me can happen and the perpetrators get off scot-free. Yes, this has happened. In the USA. Multiple times. Violence against trans and gender-nonconforming people is incredibly common, and frequently very poorly prosecuted. And is sometimes perpetrated by the justice system itself. Ever hear of the Stonewall Riots?

As for leaving the country, most Western nations will grant refugee status to anyone under threat of genocide

GENOCIDE ISN'T THE ONLY POSSIBLE PROBLEM. Also, the refugee system is also incredibly broken.

Man alive. You are being a living demonstration of everything they say about privilege. You can't even imagine what it's like to be on the receiving side of this shit, "genocide" is the only thing you can picture as an issue. That's just... wtf. Oh, yay, I'm totally fine, because nobody's trying to kill absolutely every person like me. Just, you know, brutally beating them up, occasional murder, sometimes rape just for variety, with a nice good dose of police brutality and getting ignored by the cops, all supported and perpetuated by a current government whose vice president, by the way, thinks people like me (gays, in this case) should be shipped off to a camp to be tortured until we recant our identities! But no genocide, so I guess I have nothing to worry about, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Suitable day to post this. We have local elections today in the states. I really wish O could promise relatively few nutbags getting voted into office.

Also, could you explain how Bitch-Eating-Crackers Syndrome got its name?

SPark #28 · Nov 7th, 2017 · · 1 ·

4719607
Just glanced at Zontargs' profile. He links to Vox Day there, (a major alt-right nutjob) so he's not arguing in good faith here, he's pretending to be a reasonable centrist when he's not. So there's really no point in engaging him further.

Some people can't be reasoned with, but there are always reasons people act the way they do. Nobody is a special class of evil that just springs out of the ground and deserves a special kind of hate. The very idea that Nazism is somehow the evilest of evils is both childish and ignorant of basically all of human history, replete with not greater and lesser evils, but simply... evil.

Because every time you insist there is no middle ground, you only breed more extremism, and throw more fuel on the fire.

We know this enemy. We've seen it before. And I urge you, no matter how much "SJW bullshit" has pissed you off in the past, to understand these are not equivalent. One side might be naive or obnoxious, but the other is actual fucking monsters

I'm pretty sure the saying goes "every time someone makes a blog like this, a Nazi gets his swastika."

4719618

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

4719613

It's when you're so fed up with someone that anything you see them do justifies your pre-established anger. Literally: "Look at that bitch over there, eating fucking crackers"

4719607

Pedantry, Fascist Trolling Strategy #3. This strategy is especially prone to be used by non-fascists, and in the process, said non-fascists won't even realize they're parroting fascist talking points. So this by itself is usually not enough to identify a fascist. However, trying to deal with it means getting tied down in a semantics game that only benefits the parrot/troll/fascist.

4719607

I'm sorry mate are you that fucking anal about word choice or are you deliberately concern trolling.

I replied to a specific claim. I haven't edited any of my posts, so anyone can re-read them before replying. If other people want to attack a straw man instead of my position, that's their problem.

To re-state my position: I don't care why Nazis/Antifa/Transpeople/anyone feels they're justified in using physical force against people saying words. If it's illegal to say those words (inciting violence would be a good example), get law enforcement to enforce the laws. If they don't want to, go to their bosses: the government. That doesn't work? Use the "four boxes", in order:

  1. Soap Box - Yell like hell. The media will listen.
  2. Ballot Box - The politicians don't care? Vote their asses out.
  3. Jury Box - Can't get the assholes out of power? Take the issue to court.
  4. Ammo Box - No branch of government will help? Now violence may be justified.

4719565

I do want to correct one point of fact: Yiannopoulos is not an open Nazi, and wearing an iron cross did not make him one. Tons of people at my high school wore than symbol. It's a symbol used by the modern german military, where it is illegal to be a Nazi.

False. The West German government replaced the Iron Cross in 1957. In 2007, German citizens petitioned for a revival of retired military medals (including the pre-WW2 Iron Cross), and in 2008 Germany created the Badge of Honour of the Bundeswehr:
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/BWEhrenkreuzGold.jpg

You'll notice that while cross-shaped, this is not the Iron Cross, nor is it the pendant around Yiannopoulos' neck. (The Badge of Honour of the Bundeswehr is also an award for distinguished German military service, something Yiannopoulos has not done. So even if he were wearing the correct pendant, it would still be a lie.)

The lowest grade of the medal isn't even cross-shaped.

4719614
Yep, I link to Vox. He's an asshole. He's a loony. He has fucking disgusting opinions. And in the case of the specific document I linked, he's correct. Here, have a look: SJW ATTACK SURVIVAL GUIDE. Broken clocks are right twice a day. He can stuff his white supremacism and his (((Jewish Conspiracies))) up his ass.

4719608
Guess what?

  1. I agree with just about everything you just said
  2. It has absolutely nothing to do with what I just said

Yes, the US has issues with bigotry and law enforcement. No, that doesn't mean it's OK to toss bricks at people for saying nasty things.

56
56 #37 · Nov 7th, 2017 · · 4 ·

4719629
I checked the wikipedia page before posting actually, and the symbol they use on aircraft is close enough that I think anyone can agree it's not explicitly considered a Nazi symbol there. They would never put an "almost" swastica symbol on anything.

4719618

There's this drive for equivalency, as seeing this being two sides of an issue, so the left have to be as bad as the right. That there's truth in the middle ground, in finding compromise. That there has to be parity.

I didn't say it's the evilist of evils. It doesn't have to be. It just has to be... well, worse than the people who oppose it.

And I think it is. I think it absolutely is.

If your argument is telling people that you cannot compromise with fascism will make more centrists fascists, and I shouldn't appeal to centrists then... I'm sorry, but I'm not remotely sympathetic, no.

I'm not encouraging extremism. But bipartisan tolerance is in and of itself a form of intolerance when one side is xenophobia and bigotry. To try to compromise on that is to compromise yourself.

4719637

I'm not condoning violence. I'm pointing out that one side resorting to violence isn't the immediate "you lose" button everyone is yelling it is - It's a symptom of frustration, not of moral inferiority.

4719628

They believe they have already taken your four boxes in order, and that 1) nobody is listening, 2) Mike Pence is elected anyway, 3) Bad cops, rapists, and murderers don't get reliably prosecuted. In some parts of the country, they are extremely unlikely to be prosecuted at all if their crime is against certain groups. So here we are at box 4.

4719637

Speech is not an absolute. You can't shout fire in a crowded theater, and you can't incite people to violence. That's settled case law in the US. What people are trying to tell you is that there is speech happening that is reaching a point where they feel it is past 'incite to violence', and that it is therefore appropriate to respond to it with force. They furthermore don't believe they can rely on their government institutions to take that speech seriously and exercise the government monopoly on force, so they are taking that part into their own hands. Box 4, like you said.

You don't think we're at box 4. What people are trying to tell you is that they think we are. I suggest that if you're not living in the US, you're not well placed to tell people they're wrong about that.

Furthermore, there is a thing that a lot of people forget, which I think you are forgetting, or are maybe not aware of.

Martin Luther King Jr. and non-violent protest did not succeed (to the extent it can be said he did succeed) in a vacuum. He was the carrot. Malcolm X and race violence were the stick. King's message was as powerful as it was in part because it offered an alternative to something that was scaring the shit out of a bunch of people. It also provided a movement that the government could make concessions to without looking like they were giving in to rioters.

I think you'll find that stick backing up most forms of non-violent protest.

4719629

4719565

You'll also notice they skipped the flag from 1939-1945 (Nazi Germany) with the Swastiga and Knight's Cross, instead opting for the earlier WWI Era Imperial German Eagle in the center instead.

i.pinimg.com/736x/a3/96/e3/a396e30c48ee02c49598c46cdcac92d2--military-flags-roman-empire.jpg

As you can see, through examples of these WWI era German Flags, the new one uses the Eagle and the Iron Cross (Which is the German Pre-Nazi era award and symbol)

And in fact, just for point of reference, though I can't get a close look at the thing that guy is wearing, I think it's actually a replica of this:

medalsmilitary.com/713-large_default/iron-cross-first-class-1914-double-marked-800.jpg

That's the Iron Cross from Imperial Germany, Circa 1914. Now, if he is wearing it to identify himself to Neo-Nazis or just to troll people who are too angry to spend five minutes looking up German iconography and awards, I don't know. And honestly, I'm not going to give the guy the time of day because I myself am a troll, and I know the more you feed us the more we try and piss you off to keep feeding us.

Now that I have that out of the way. I honestly agree with everything you've said in this post, Numbers, and I can tell you as both a Liberal Democrate, someone who lives on the west coast, someone who has a transgender loved one, and a gay loved one, Republicans and the Alt-Right scare me shitless! I am lucky to live on the west coast of the US, honestly, but even here we still feel the fear. More so since creature siting behind the desk (I'm still not really sure we elected him, the past few days with all that's being found out about Russia and his connections to them) threatening Seattle and other cities here in my state for refusing to allow him and ICE/FBI/CIA/what have you come in and kick in doors and drag people away. And yes, you heard that right, the Governor of my State (Washington), and the Mayor of the city of Seattle, told Donald Trump he was not allowed to send people into the state and drag them out of their homes and deport them because he didn't believe their were citizens, or that their children were citizens, or that he didn't like that our agricultural infrastructure relies on these people.

Honestly, what we need is for the more active generation (My generation, is often labeled as lazy but really isn't) to just start voting more, and actually produce some change... it'll be a long while, sadly, but perhaps we can turn things around before it's too late?

Milo is openly a fucking Nazi.

"He is a gay Jewish catholic foreign gamer who prefers black men. This qualifies him to say anything he wants about any of these groups without the same kind of scrutiny a straight white male gets. I'm sure he's also a bunch of other things that we don't know about too." /u/Memescroller explaining Milo's abuse of identity politics

Now, all Yiannopoulos has to do is get people mad, and the money comes flowing in.

4719628
Mmm. Politics. I’m with Zontarg btw. If I wasn’t insanely busy at the moment, I’d consider bringing out the fact and law stick, but it’s not worth my time and effort against current priorities.

Peaceful protest is fine and legal. Hell peacefully carrying firearms in a protest is legal. Saying horrible things regardless of political bent is legal.

Adding violence to your protest is not. Violence against those that disagree with you is not.

When did ‘sticks and stones’ stop being relevant?

4719628

From what I understand, not supporting all of the current Antifa (they're a shadow of their former selves), the reason they strike early is because waiting never worked, they waited in Germany to strike and the United Front was slaughtered, in Spain the Republicans, in Italy the same. The problem is not preemptive strike, that is the only solution, the problem is who they target and how.
Edit: For those that don't know, note Spanish Republicans were not like the American variety, they were the left, ranging from DemSocs to Marxist-Leninists to Anarchists.

56

4719687

So it's clear what kind of immigration controls you oppose, but I notice that you didn't clarify what controls you support. Do you support open borders? I don't think that's actually too outlandish, I've seen reasonable arguments for it. But what I also see a lot of is people who support closed borders and denial of entry, but oppose deportation. This seems like a double standard to me - absolute empathy and compassion, but only for those who successfully manage to circumvent the border controls. Not saying that's you, I just can't tell since you didn't clarify your position.

4719696

Sixty years ago it was extremely illegal to commit homosexual acts, and had I been alive and in my country then, it would have been very much legal for police to force me to take enough estrogen to chemically castrate myself, or use sticks and stones to keep me in jail until I agreed to do so. If I had tried to resist it would have been legal for them to beat me unconscious, and if I'd tried to resist with a weapon, it would have been legal for them to kill me, for the plainly illegal act of being a degenerate bisexual.

The first problem with false equivalence is that, while accurate, it’s often used dishonestly.

It is, indeed, false to equate the Republicrats (who want to set one on fire) with the Demopublicans (who merely want to stomp repeatedly on one’s balls), but when “false equivalence” is the go-to and argument-terminating response to everyone who points out that, hey, there’re a lot of aching testicles out here, people stop taking it seriously.

The second and more significant one is that it’s often presented as a false dichotomy: since the Republicrats are much worse, one must-must-must!!! support the Demopublicans. This is a classic race to the bottom scenario that ends with you thanking the dude whose steel-toed jackboot is wedged into your groin for not being even more of a bastard.

Or to bring it back to the real world, if “not being Nazis” is good enough to get one’s support, one’ll end up with the shittiest behavior possible without actually going full Nazi, because there’s no downside cost to it any more.

I don’t have a good answer to this, but I’ll go out on a limb and say that not playing rigged negative-sum games of choosing only how much shit you get in your sandwich is part of it.

4719710
That has literally nothing to do with my post about protests. I’m talking about apples and you tried to change the topic to potatoes.

Never once did I mention the past. It was a simple X and Y are legal, while Z is not.

:facehoof:

4719637

i'm going to hit you directly in your balls with my antifa brick (because you're a dweeb), but don't worry, it'll work out in your favor because my violence has proved to all sensible bystanders that you and your wounded balls are in the right.

4719665

I'm pointing out that one side resorting to violence isn't the immediate "you lose" button everyone is yelling it is - It's a symptom of frustration, not of moral inferiority.

I believe the argument may be less that it is, and more that it ought to be. Ensuring that resorting to violence serves as a “you lose” button is a way of discouraging people from resorting to violence by making it ineffective. Which is useful in maintaining a civilized society.

This is written well, and delivers the message it sets out to. However, and yes, it is a however. However, the people it generally will reach are going to be in the same approach of agreement. Not bad, not good, but its a very targeted thing, and hits on the money to the audience.

There are points I agree on in this article. It isn't a pretty picture. And its getting worse by the day the more militant the sides here get. The world is shifting into an "Us or Them" mentality. And yes, hate is a great polarizer. It's seductive, its easy, it provides a sense of belonging. So to does fear, the quick rush, the fight or flight rally. When you delude, lie, cheat, and steal into rallying someone with a gut reaction and sucker punch. This has a point of two in its written form, but its not overt or aimed that way in what I can tell.

Sadly, i can see chat has devolved quickly. But with such a highly personalized and subjective viewpoint for everyone. It often doesn't take long.

4719608
In forewarning, I don't defend him, or wish to be seen as attacking you. You've stated where you stand clearly, as has he in this point. I hope with this to be taken as an "Not aligned to anything." overall.

I just wish that you might consider that you may be justifying in the mind of folks, or setting lines by the nature by attacking someone through the "priviledge" angle. I see this often, and it is used this way. And it does not tend to do anything but firmly state your position to generally savage someone from a perceived underdog to rally too. You are the "little guy" in the fight trying to stand up to the big bad in this.

Is there not advantage that some people have in life? Without a doubt. But using it in this context, is only drawing to divide and create the us or them. It should be we as humanity that need to step up and do better. If folks want to sit and throw mud, let them. They made their choices. I'm going to try for tomorrow to be a brighter day.

Login or register to comment
Join our Patreon to remove these adverts!