Worldbuilding: Implied Technology · 11:03pm Sep 19th, 2017
One thing that a lot of people don't think about when creating a setting is the technology required to make other tech, or items that are present within the world they have created. This is actually very very important. Lets say that you have a setting where every home has clear glass windows. You know, like modern houses do. Not foggy glass windows, proper, clear, glass windows.
Do you know what it takes to make those? Maybe you do. Maybe you understand that making clear glass requires specialized furnaces, the mining of about 6 different very specific materials, and experts who know exactly how to mix those ingredients, the ratio to mix them in, how long to heat it for, and how to pour the glass into a mold to make a sheet of glass to be used in a window.
But what about all the rest of the things required to make that window?
What about the people who mount two sheets of glass into a frame to make the window itself? What about the people and tech required to create/harvest the Argon and krypton gases which go between the panes of glass to prevent the window from sucking all the heat out of your home? What about the mechanisms required to make the crank to open the window (if it opens)? What about the equipment required for the mining operations that get the materials that are made into the glass itself? What about the machinery required to make that machinery? What about the years and years and years of scientific discovery, engineering development, and logistical planning required to make all of that happen?
And lastly, what about the sheer economy of scale required for all these things that means so much glass can be made so cheaply that every home can afford to have multiple clear glass windows, even if the owners of those homes are poor?
In case you're thinking "Okay, so glass is pretty complicated. But other things are simple!" No. Nothing is simple. Here are all of the steps required to make a chicken sandwich from scratch. WARNING: Contains brief clip of a chicken being butchered.
See that? 16 steps, 6 months, and 1,500 dollars to make a single chicken sandwich from total scratch. But you can get one for like 3.50 USD at your local gas station corner store. Imagine everything required to make that happen, including realizing that without the highway system, aircraft, and container ships for shipping materials cheaply, none of that could happen.
The existence of any item within a fictional world requires the existence of dozens if not hundreds of other items, some of which are likely more technologically advanced than the end product. Sure, it doesn't have to be the exact specific thing that we humans use IRL to make it, but a functionally equivalent device is required in place of each of those things.
Now, all that having been said...
Think about everything we can see in Pinkie's kitchen in this screenshot.
- Mass produced recipe book using paper pages (paper production takes more stuff than glass)
- Stainless steal recipe book holder
- Mass produced plastic measuring cup
- Identical stainless steal pans
- Stainless steel pot
- Colored ceramic or plastic mixing bowls
- Colored glass light fixture with decorative colored design (possibly electrical lighting too?)
- Clear glass window, modern style
- Brass Curtain rod
- Colored, pattern printed, curtains
This is ignoring all of the cabinetry, counter tops, and the custom coloration/decorations present on them. Why do people think that ponies are medieval again? Oh yeah, because their houses look medieval. Nothing inside those homes could be produce by a civilization on the scale that we see them using medieval equivalent technology/logistics/infrastructure. In a truly medieval world, only an Emperor could afford anything remotely resembling the things found in Pinkie's kitchen.
Pinkie is a peasant, and a poor one at that. She's a farm girl on an apprenticeship with a baker. But she can afford to have those things. Or if she's using her master's equipment, the baker of a small town can afford to have those things.
And yet, we see ponies living in medieval style buildings. What gives? Simply put, the Americas are the only continents which don't have retrofitted ancient buildings still in use today.
This is a picture of Paphos in the country Cyprus from the year 2012.
Looks like humans tech level is super anachronistic, dosnt it? Modern cars next to roman era looking stone/plaster buildings? Guess we're in the early iron age and aliens gave us cars :P
Here's Marsaxlokk, Malta. Taken this year.
Almost looks like a time traveler went back in time to some village in India and snapped a photo, doesn't it?
Here's a photo of a place I used to live. Welshbelig, Germany.
Are modern humans medieval? Because that is totally a medieval village, right? It's even surrounded by farms and stuff! You can see plowed fields behind the village there. A village which has electric lights, internet, air conditioning, indoor plumbing, modern appliances and conveniences...
All that despite the city hall still being a castle.
Yep. Modern village. Doing it's city government stuff out of a castle. Neat huh?
See, the thing is, the tech level of a world is not determined by the large scale things. We have people living in buildings that are hundreds of years old which have been repaired, retrofitted, and maintained. We have several governments on Earth that are still Monarchies. The style of government, the architecture, you can't use those things to accurately determine the tech level of a society.
You get the tech level from what kind of stuff poor people in that society can afford to have.
When you build your settings, keep this in mind. If you want medieval ponies, their houses can't have clear glass windows.
...Unless they're a dimension hopping wizard.
*glares at Starswirl. He knows what he did.*
Then again, that's more of an exception to the given rule than anything else.
Still, I completely agree with you. The technological level of a setting can require enormous amounts of detail to establish properly.
That being said, the rule is never entirely simple, and is often dictated by setting itself.
Say you have disparate technological levels between two societies, and they exist in a non-hostile relationship. Say some sort of benevolent precursors unwilling to fully share their tech, but willing to give what they consider trinkets to the poor civilized folk over the hill.
In that sort of situation, you can have a medieval society trading with a more advanced one for things like windows, simple machinery, and so on. This also applies to digging up remains of ancient ragnarok proofed technology if there was a precursor civilization at some point.
Additionally, different areas may have very disparate wealth levels. Take a city that acts as a trade hub for a massive region with a wide variety of resources available. The poor people of that city would likely have access to affordable comforts that someone in an outlying village could never afford courtesy of just living close by a source of production.
4672989 It's not about what the elites have, it's about what the poorest people have. Also, it dosnt matter how technology was acquired. You don't need to invent the devices which lead to advancement, you just need to have them, or have access to them.
Furthermore, even if they make clear glass using spells, and mine the materials using spells, that's still a modern tech level because the average poor person can have all the same things we do. It's not important how specifically the thing is done. What matters is that in order for the poor to have a _______, then ____, ____, ____, ____, ____, ____, and ____ must get done somehow.
EDIT: addressing your edit; This whole rant boils down to this "It's the poorest of the poor who demonstrait what the tech level of your fictional world is." The Emperor can have a star ship, but if the peasants are living in dirt huts using clay ovens to bake their bread, it's a stone age setting with a massively anachronistic item in the hands of the elites.
Magic, alas, will be the defense every writer will likely employ. How do they smelt iron, nickel, coal, and more; to make stainless steel? Magic.
One interesting fact we do know: Ponyville runs on hydroelectric power. This has a lot of implications:
How do they distribute the power (we surely didn't see any electrical cables when Twilight's treehouse was ripped up)?
What devices run on this power, and what on magic?
The technology to make an electric generator of such size is another order of magnitude more than even stuff that you mention. Huge bearings, literal miles of copper winding, huge forged parts, electronics...
Then we go down to small. The wireless headsets that Iron Will's goats wear, or the bouncer that stopped the CMC from visiting Sapphire Shores, or even as shown on the bodyguards in the movie snippets; this kind of micro integration shows massive levels of industrialization.
Consider that most items that we have seen use/work with magic tend to glow in some way, then we can kinda deduce that none of the basic equipment in homes seems to use magic as an energy source.
Thanks, Meep, for the interesting blog!
... maybe the aliens also gave us infrastructure? XD
You made me realize a lot of things today. Now I have to re-write my homebrew dnd campaign where as a joke instead of one of my players getting a super power he gets a revolver and some ammo.
4673001
Sure, it can be magic. But magic is still technology. How do I know? Because any sufficiently complex technology is indistinguishable from magic, and any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from technology.
It doesn't matter what makes it possible for Pinkie Pie to be able to won plastic measuring spoons. It only matters that she can own them.
But yes, I absolutely agree with you. From what the show shows us, ponies have magic, it exists, but since most unicorns are not Twilight Sparkle, and can just float things and make their horn into a flashlight at best, very little of their stuff appears to be magically based.
Hey when my mother did her foreign exchange schooling, she did it in Germany and actually visited Welshbelig! Cool.
overthink level: TOO DAMN HIGHimgflip.com/s/meme/Too-Damn-High.jpg
4673010
I'd always imagined they used a blend of tech and magic. My guess at the dam is that there is some kind of crystal that wireless transmits the energy to houses. Seeing as they seem to have zero pollution I also imagine that any application that we would use that pollutes uses some kind of magic counterpart.
I'd imagine there are government run specialized construction groups that can do this kind of building cheep so that less wealthy beings can afford energy in their houses. Water seems rather easy as they can monitor the water tables and get more rain as needed meaning no one would really need a seep well for water.
However on the other side of that Equestria dose have New York city style cities that might have the factories and industrialization to allow the 'simpler built' towns to afford items on the cheep.
It dose make one wonder how Celestia has balanced technological advancement with clean energy as access to magic changes some rules. The trains for example.
In my head cannon I imagine an area of earth pony miners that infuse the earth with their magic turning the normally pollutant fuel into something clean burning.
Yes ty meep I always felt the ponytech level was equivalent in some areas to ours. If you want a true understanding of how crazy human tech is think about the material train for advance airplanes,
Interesting points ad something people don't consider alot
One really common thing I see, is that magic plays a role in Pony technology. Thing is, that doesn't change much.
At the low end, you still need to understand how to use magic to manipulate the stuff. (unless its autocomplete type magic, where it does exactly what you want perfectly, without requiring a description of what you are trying to do)
Worse, it requires either a large number of unicorns working, driving price up (and making it more scarce/expensive) or else be done via device, meaning it is infrastructure. That meaning its back to the original point, of how you need a lot of perquisite stuff for producing stuff.
If magic is too far into the autocomplete functionality, or covers the entire line, you move towards post-scarsity implications, which itself can be interesting. You might have a magic user who scans underground, finds iron and coal, draws it up out of the earth, applies heat/pressure/air-flow, shapes the resulting molten steel into a blade, and cools it. Plus the equivalent for the wood/leather/otherwise handle, (not really families with what goes into making a sword).
If you can do the whole thing without needing equipment, things change, and if that is easy, such that many casters can do so, it has interesting effects.
Or, if you just go and let transmutation exist, it can get even more silly.
There is a reason Harry Potter fanfictions constantly abuse the magic system for, at least for the setting, epic-tier powers via transfiguration, or similar. It entirely fails to do much to restrict what magic is capable of....
4673014 It's a nice little town ^^
4673007 That may be okay. We had a repeating flintlok postol IRL back in the 1680s. It was just one of like 20 because they were extremely expensive to make. Have a look!
4673016 I would argue that what I did here isn't overthinking at all. It's thinking about the world at all. If I was overthinking, I would do something like prove that the ponies are using base 10 mathematics using only cannon sources.
The world is important to a fantasy setting. It's almost a character in and of itself. It's important to actually observe it and notice how it really is, because that in turn shapes how the characters are.
4673127 I agree with you on this. Howeaver, I would say that magic is another flavor of engineering. Magical things are still technology. Especially from a writing perspective. In a story, there's no difference between the Star Trek Tricorder and a spell that tells you what a rock is made of. Why not? Because in the end, the characters will learn what the rock is made of either way.
As such, the difference between magic and mundane tech is flavoring and only flavoring.
4673268
for the purposes of a good story, every single piece of background tech/information doesnt need to be stated to have a good and enjoyable story
4673268
That's actually really cool! But it has a considerably long re-cock and reload time I'd probably have to account for in combat. I also think it would do less damage per shot as well compared to the 6 shot .44 magnum revolver I was going to give him initially.
4673274 Quite true, but the world should fit together neatly. A medieval world shouldn't have stainless steel pots and pans. It should have wooden bowls and cast iron cookware at best, with most people making use of earthen cookery. It's all about atmosphere and immersion.
4673280 Yeah, it's more a kin to a lever rifle than a revolver. But still, repeating fierams are not anachronistic of the Renascence period. Just rare.
Personally, I always felt it was more of a late-1800's to early-1900's than medieval. Though I had forgotten about the headsets.
4673425 Headsets, arcade cabinets, ECCG machines in hospitals... They are 1980s at the most primitive. The only thing we have yet to see to put them on modern equivalent is personal computers.
4673268
Yea, I was pointing that out. The distinction I was making was that unlike "technology", magical methods, if based purely on, say, a unicorn's ability to cast, and knowledge, then while you need the technology, you do not need the infirstructure. You need to now how to make it, but don't need the physical constructs, "The Tools to make the tools", which massively changes how things work.
Just something to think on.
4673574 I disagree. If it depends on a unicorn's ability to cast then it still uses infrastructure. This is because people are a part of infrastructure. There's a reason the department is called Human Resources
This is why I postulate that at least one of the cities we haven't seen within the show is an industrial mecca of engineering. Makes sense for ponies, they wouldn't want that gunk in every city. I think it's Fillydelphia or Hoofington.
Not to mention there are definitely other nations to trade with. We still don't know where Saddle Arabia is, as it still isn't on the updated map. Perhaps to the west?
This is why I get so pissed at people who insist Equestria is medivel level tech, when it is very clearly not. It is obviously AT LEAST post industrial, and has friggin' silicon chip technology, something that wasn't invented until the late 20th century.
vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/9/95/Gamer_colts_S2E17.png/revision/latest?cb=20120219024105
Not to mention subwoofers, which weren't around until the 1970s:
vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/8/80/DJ_Pon-3_about_to_start_the_music_S2E26.png/revision/latest?cb=20130308022942
Or a fucking hydroelectric dam:
mlpforums.com/uploads/post_images/img-1620152-1-20120914204814!Hoofer_Dam_S2E08.png
which means, AT THE VERY LEAST, Equestria is at 1980s tech level.
Equestria also has aspects of the 90's and 2000's with Iron WIll, a fusion of a ShamWow advertiser and a motivational speaker feels like the 2000s. And we see more and more attractions of the modern world, like book conventions, raves, and resturant reviewers.
And the best thing is it MAKES SENSE!
OF COURSE ponies would have barely heard of cannons, because Equestria has been at peace for more then a millenium, far longer then any human peacetime. Instead of war, they focus on entertainment, medical care, and industrial building.
4680078 Also the parallel world to Equestria where they are all humanoids has cars, and computers, and you know, is like, meant to be right now. The only differences seem to be Equestria lacks personal computers and cars. Pones don't need cars. A pone can run at like 55 MPH for hours before getting tired, and can pull multiple tons of stuff no problem. They don't need personal transport.
As for computers, since Twilight has a 1960s reel to reel mainframe, their computer technology seems to be lagging a bit. Save for arcade cabinets.
4680259
No, they just haven't figured out like we did how useful it is. They have arcade machines, which implies silicon cards, but they haven't invented international internet. Has sky done this yet?
4680479 Yeah there's internet but it's not global. It's mostly intra nation networks, though Equestria and Prance are linked. Neighpone tried to get a link going but the undersea cable proved non-viable
4680482
Exactly how it was before the US government let companies in on the internet fun! Before that it was a couple of interconnected colleges in the US, France, and Britain. I don't think any sort of cable is possible with kaijus. Honestly how are these things even still alive? They would require MASSIVE amounts of oxygen, or whatever they breathe. There is a reason no life on earth was ever that big. I don't think oxygen is that more plentiful.
Not to mention the fact that a lot of old tree species are still alive...even when they are more then 250+ million years old, which considering how plentiful oaks are (they are everywhere), some fungus or something should have evolved to become a parasite on it. I mean, people have already found bacteria that breaks down plastic, which is completely man-made and was never seen before humans. I highly doubt pretty much any sort of tree that much like it's ancestors will still be thriving.
Remember in that one Rainbow Dash episode we saw a one unit pedal operated helicopter? Yeah they can figure things like that out so it wouldn't be surprising to see what other technological advances they could have
4680544
yeah, but it's pedal powered. Although i wonder how a pedal-power helicopter would even work, considering you'd be essentially be pushing yourself up through the air, which is impossible.
4680482
I always imagine Twilight's on a waiting list to get a computer.
For my fic that I really need to get back to working on, It's around 1980s- early 1990s
4680547 the motor might work like how old biplanes work with a rotation of the rotor blades to get started
4680548
But, there doesn't seem to be any motor on those things. Not to mention Pinkie's, which is 100% pony powered since it's essentially a candy cane bicycle with a rotor attached to it.
4680550
Probably a primitive computer, the kind that scientists used when they were first invented. Probably from a college, since that's where they were most common.
4680552
true, well in one of my stories I was thinking of the introduction of more modern things. Given the transit system is more around the time of the transcontinental railroad (with addition of modern kitchen appliances, electric grids), I'd assume introducing machinery more akin to late 80's early 90's would be a sensible idea
4680552 4680562 With the right gear ratio, assuming magic is used to lighten the vehicle, you could presumably get a fast enough rotation speed on the rotors with the pedals.